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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Grammatical infelicities
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
[I would say that 'it ain't' is grammatical in some dialects. Of course, some Standard English speakers decry it, but this is not a linguistic judgment, but a social one, I guess. Snobbery, in other words.
I think that "ain't" was part of some upper-class spoken English until fairly recently.
Very good point; I'd forgotten about such conservative forms, which presumably have died out. I do remember conservative RP, e.g. pronouncing all the syllables in 'miniature' and 'Parliament', hardly ever heard today.
Nostalgic point - my grandfather (in Yorkshire), used to still say 'thou' and 'thee', probably died out?
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Incidentally, there's an interesting Wiki article on 'ain't', which includes Baptist Trainfan's point that it was used by upper class people until the late 20th century.
And that it's used by educated people in parts of the US - didn't know that.
Also, the tag question in Standard English is often 'aren't I?', since we've lost 'ain't I?' or 'amn't I?'. Hence, 'I'm going to thump you, aren't it?'.
[ 03. September 2016, 16:46: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Also, the tag question in Standard English is often 'aren't I?', since we've lost 'ain't I?' or 'amn't I?'. Hence, 'I'm going to thump you, aren't it?'.
"Innit" is doing well on that front and is used a bit more widely than a mere contraction of "isn't it". "I'm on the train, innit" and similar can be heard in modern English so "I'm gonna thump you, innit" is entirely possible.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Also, the tag question in Standard English is often 'aren't I?', since we've lost 'ain't I?' or 'amn't I?'. Hence, 'I'm going to thump you, aren't it?'.
"Innit" is doing well on that front and is used a bit more widely than a mere contraction of "isn't it". "I'm on the train, innit" and similar can be heard in modern English so "I'm gonna thump you, innit" is entirely possible.
Yes, it's beginning to resemble 'n'est ce pas?' in French. But in Standard English, I think 'aren't I?' is the only version possible, as far as I've heard. Although, it's possible that 'innit' will spread into the middle-class, dunno, do I.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Although, it's possible that 'innit' will spread into the middle-class, dunno, do I.
I suspect that "innit" is destined to remain low-status.
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cornflower
Shipmate
# 13349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by cornflower:
I really do wonder how foreigners cope with English when they come here...it must be incredibly confusing for them.
I found out when I volunteered to teach ESL to a group of Spanish native speakers. Take, for instance, the word "do":
Do you like me? Yes, I do.
I have to do the laundry.
We're going to do Europe next summer.
She's got her hair up in a do.
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif) ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Yes, I once knew someone from Czechoslovakia or somewhere like that, and they couldn't seem to understand the difference between 'at' and 'in', at least with how we use those words in various situations...so difficult to explain. There was also a German girl who asked me the difference between 'next' and 'nearest'. I had terrible trouble trying to explain the usage (not being an expert on these things). I said something like the next railway station might not be the nearest. (At least, the next stop might not be the nearest) I think in German they use the same word. Doesn't help when someone asks for an explanation and you don't have time to think it out.
[ 03. September 2016, 19:59: Message edited by: cornflower ]
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cornflower
Shipmate
# 13349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Cornflower - there is a UBB practice thread you might find useful. I find it impossible to sort the code/quotes in your last post.
Also, we try and avoid double or triple sequential posts - it looks monopolistic.
Firenze
Heaven Host
Thanks very much ![[Smile]](smile.gif) . I'll take a look at that. For some reason, on this site, I find it difficult to get it right, though on a another site, I managed to figure it out.
Posts: 111 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2008
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Is it now?
That is certainly its origin, or so says my friend the etymological dictionary:
quote:
1706; originally a contraction of "am not"
It's use to mean "is not, are not, have not &c" came in the 19th century; that a word has come to be used differently doesn't change the origin of the word.
This is a thread in which you need to be very careful with misplaced apostrophes.
Just sayin'.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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cornflower
Shipmate
# 13349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Oh and there's the sexist observation, "I'd do her."
Or 'do someone in'. Or 'do the house up'.
Posts: 111 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2008
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cornflower
Shipmate
# 13349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Cornflower - there is a UBB practice thread you might find useful. I find it impossible to sort the code/quotes in your last post.
Also, we try and avoid double or triple sequential posts - it looks monopolistic.
Firenze
Heaven Host
What do you mean by double or triple sequential posts...do you mean, like what I've just done by replying to you and then suddenly realising I didn't understand the second bit, so immediately posted again (suddenly realised, I probably could simply have edited my first response to you, sorry), or do you mean, posting several responses in a row,to different posts by different people or what? Slightly confused...am just getting used to this site, so I do apologise for any gaffes. I certainly don't mean to monopolise.
Posts: 111 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2008
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Sometimes "me" is used as the object of an implied preposition "with". I would guess that this is an English carryover of that bane of many a Latin student, the ablative absolute. Example: "There we were in the restaurant, and me so hungry I could eat out the whole place."
This could also be from Irish. I remember when I began studying Old Irish I encountered the phrase, "and she pregnant"
I heard many constructions of this type when I lived in Belfast.
Moo
[ 03. September 2016, 21:22: Message edited by: Moo ]
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Nostalgic point - my grandfather (in Yorkshire), used to still say 'thou' and 'thee', probably died out?
One of the problems with later usage of the Authorised Version Bible is that people had generally forgotten this usage. So "Thee/thou" became thought to refer to God alone, while exhortations to "you" were seen as individualistic rather than communal ("y'all"). I think this has had a definite effect on our understanding of the Faith.
(In Portuguese the opposite happened, with the archaic second person plural being used to refer to God. But here the whole second person is a bit complicated and bound up, as in French, with aspects of familiarity).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... Nostalgic point - my grandfather (in Yorkshire), used to still say 'thou' and 'thee', probably died out?
Not completely - I know people from Westray, one of the northern isles of Orkney, who would still say, "would thou* pass me the sugar?"
* pronounced "thoo" (with a hard "th")
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cornflower:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Cornflower - there is a UBB practice thread you might find useful. I find it impossible to sort the code/quotes in your last post.
Also, we try and avoid double or triple sequential posts - it looks monopolistic.
Firenze
Heaven Host
What do you mean by double or triple sequential posts...do you mean, like what I've just done by replying to you and then suddenly realising I didn't understand the second bit, so immediately posted again (suddenly realised, I probably could simply have edited my first response to you, sorry), or do you mean, posting several responses in a row,to different posts by different people or what? Slightly confused...am just getting used to this site, so I do apologise for any gaffes. I certainly don't mean to monopolise.
If you have any questions about Firenze's Hostly request, please start a thread in the Styx, so we can keep this thread on topic, and discuss those questions seperately.
Kelly Alves
Admin
(P.S.-- I have deleted what appears to be a duplicate post-- to be distinguished from a double post. )
[ 04. September 2016, 01:01: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I was thinking about 'ain't' again, (you can see what an exciting life I lead), and it struck me that it illustrates the role of stigma in speech and language.
It seems that it was used during the 18th and 19th centuries by everyone, but then became stigmatized, first by middle class people, and then upper class. So it has been left only in some dialects, which are lower class.
It's often said that an Englishman (and presumably woman), starts to judge you as soon as you open your mouth - where you are from, which social class, how much income, how you live, and so on.
That seems exaggerated, but the role of stigma is fascinating in this regard. Certain constructions and words are designated as inferior, and then self-appointed grammarians can become enjoyably indignant about its non-correctness.
Probably, stigma also applies to stuff like clothes, hair, house decor, and so on, but speech is the real tell. I don't know if this applies in other countries, but England is supposed to do it in spades, class consciousness rools. Still, it gives people in linguistics a job.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I am becoming increasingly irritated at the use of the words "them" or "they" to refer to a single person.
I'm all in favour of inclusive language, but if you know the person you are referring to is male or female, surely it's not sexist to say "he" or "she"?
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I heard an interesting variant on 'do' in a shop in Cirencester, coupled with a variant of 'wardrobe'. I was in a clothes shop which was selling dresses with prices somewhere in mid-range, checking out the styles, when a mother and late-teens early-twenties daughter came in. Now Cirencester had three levels of dress shops. Cheap, such as Tesco's and some dealing in remaindered styles. Middle, such as House of Fraser, and some designer shops. And the ones I wouldn't go in which showed no prices. This couple would favour the last as well as the middle, judging from the Sloane accents.
And the mother said to the daughter 'We must remember this shop when we are doing your wardrobe.'
A phrase which sent me off to the occasion when I had sanded an old wooden wardrobe with an attractive grain in the veneer, and revarnished it.
I know the use of wardrobe for 'collection of clothes for a particular person in particular circumstances', as seen in film credits, for example, but I had never thought of such things as things one 'did'. 'Bought', 'designed', 'collected', 'made', 'shopped for', all sorts of things, but 'do' just hadn't occurred to me.
With regard to teaching things in English which native speakers just know by osmosis, a friend went ot teach English in Sweden, and was utterly stumped when asked when speakers should use 'thee' or 'thuh' pronunciations for 'the'.
[ 04. September 2016, 12:34: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
a friend went ot teach English in Sweden, and was utterly stumped when asked when speakers should use 'thee' or 'thuh' pronunciations for 'the'.
But every singer knows the answer to that question. "Thee" is used if the next word begins with a vowel; "thuh" if it begins with a consonant.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I am becoming increasingly irritated at the use of the words "them" or "they" to refer to a single person.
I'm all in favour of inclusive language, but if you know the person you are referring to is male or female, surely it's not sexist to say "he" or "she"?
Use of the "singular they" can be documented as far back as the Fifteenth Century.
But I agree that using it makes no sense if one is speaking of a specific person whose identity, and gender, is known. (Unless, of course, that specific person prefers due to gender identity to be referred to as "they/them.")
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Pronunciation of 'the': wow, kudos to the students for asking a question like that; I don't know how many native speakers would know. You could add that for emphasis, 'the' is pronounced 'thee', e.g. 'What you mean you met the President?'
[ 04. September 2016, 13:46: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
This is a thread in which you need to be very careful with misplaced apostrophes.
I am beyond mortified and have spent the entire night flagellating my typing fingers in penance. (Both of them.)
A minor irritation (in that it doesn't occur often): people who don't understand the use of "one" and think it's a "posh" form of "you" or "I".
Recent examples:
1. Someone overheard in a pub discussing the Prince of Wales / Diana / Camilla scandal*:
"Ya don't wanna hear, "Oh, one is dumping one's wife."
I so wanted to interrupt with, 'No; One doesn't want to hear, "Oh, I am dumping my wife."
2. Someone mocking ME (can you even imagine such a thing?) for having a previous engagement, thus being unable to meet them:
"Ooh! One couldn't come coz one was dining in town."
On that occasion, I wanted to answer, "No. I couldn't come because dining in town (or anywhere else) was preferable to spending an evening with you, you arrogant, ignorant piece of ..." but I don't do that sort of thing.
Lest I might be accused of snobbery, I should add that I have no objection to people saying "you" when they mean "someone"; I have every objection to people using "one" when they mean "I" or "you".
*And yes, people really are still talking about that as if they really care.
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I am becoming increasingly irritated at the use of the words "them" or "they" to refer to a single person.
I'm all in favour of inclusive language, but if you know the person you are referring to is male or female, surely it's not sexist to say "he" or "she"?
Use of the "singular they" can be documented as far back as the Fifteenth Century.
But I agree that using it makes no sense if one is speaking of a specific person whose identity, and gender, is known. (Unless, of course, that specific person prefers due to gender identity to be referred to as "they/them.")
As far as I can see, it's partly because English lacks a word such as French 'on', i.e. the impersonal pronoun. Well, OK, we can say 'one', but that sounds odd often.
So, we could get, 'somebody hit my car, and they didn't stop'. But here the gender is unknown. To say, 'a woman hit my car, and they didn't stop', sounds odd to me, but maybe it is used. [Second thoughts: I think it is used when the gender is known].
In fact, I don't know what else one would say for the first example: 'somebody hit my car and the twat didn't stop'.
And as already noted, used now by trans people and others who want no gender identification.
[ 04. September 2016, 13:54: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I just realized that the Washington Post has admitted singular 'they' into its style guide, in two circumstances: for trans people, and to avoid awkward sentences.
An awkward sentence such as: 'if someone wins the lottery ----- should give some to charity'. Or, 'somebody left ------ umbrella in the office'.
Of course, you can say, 'he/she', or 'he or she', and so on, but 'they' and 'their' is coming to a style guide close to you.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
"Back in the day" The indefinite, not definite, article is more appropriate.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I just realized that the Washington Post has admitted singular 'they' into its style guide, in two circumstances: for trans people, and to avoid awkward sentences.
An awkward sentence such as: 'if someone wins the lottery ----- should give some to charity'. Or, 'somebody left ------ umbrella in the office'.
Of course, you can say, 'he/she', or 'he or she', and so on, but 'they' and 'their' is coming to a style guide close to you.
Yeah, I remember some vocab nerd article going around a long time ago about this.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
a friend went ot teach English in Sweden, and was utterly stumped when asked when speakers should use 'thee' or 'thuh' pronunciations for 'the'.
But every singer knows the answer to that question. "Thee" is used if the next word begins with a vowel; "thuh" if it begins with a consonant.
Not everyone is a singer.
My great-great-grandfather kept 'The George' in Lamberhurst, and referred to himself, I am told, as an 'otelier. My great-grandmother, his daughter, I am told, was said, by the posh side who thought a publican's daughter beneath them, to pour the tea as if she were trying to get a head on it.
Presumably, 'thee' 'otel, and 'thuh' hotel. Or pub.
[ 04. September 2016, 17:10: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I just realized that the Washington Post has admitted singular 'they' into its style guide, in two circumstances: for trans people, and to avoid awkward sentences.
An awkward sentence such as: 'if someone wins the lottery ----- should give some to charity'. Or, 'somebody left ------ umbrella in the office'.
Of course, you can say, 'he/she', or 'he or she', and so on, but 'they' and 'their' is coming to a style guide close to you.
That's been commonplace for years surely?
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I just realized that the Washington Post has admitted singular 'they' into its style guide, in two circumstances: for trans people, and to avoid awkward sentences.
An awkward sentence such as: 'if someone wins the lottery ----- should give some to charity'. Or, 'somebody left ------ umbrella in the office'.
Of course, you can say, 'he/she', or 'he or she', and so on, but 'they' and 'their' is coming to a style guide close to you.
It is a new style, the singular they. You wouldn't get an 18th and 19th century author like Jane Austen using it.
Oh wait, she did.
There is nothing new under the sun.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
I'm not sure if this qualifies as 'grammatical usage', but I detest the phrase 'top of the hour', meaning 'on the hour', often used by presenters on the BBC radio programme Today when they're trying to sound bright and breezy. It's meaningless. What about 'bottom of the hour' or 'side of the hour'?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm not sure if this qualifies as 'grammatical usage', but I detest the phrase 'top of the hour', meaning 'on the hour', often used by presenters on the BBC radio programme Today when they're trying to sound bright and breezy. It's meaningless. What about 'bottom of the hour' or 'side of the hour'?
I think of this as the face of a clock. When the minute hand is at the top, it is the top of the hour.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I just realized that the Washington Post has admitted singular 'they' into its style guide, in two circumstances: for trans people, and to avoid awkward sentences.
An awkward sentence such as: 'if someone wins the lottery ----- should give some to charity'. Or, 'somebody left ------ umbrella in the office'.
Of course, you can say, 'he/she', or 'he or she', and so on, but 'they' and 'their' is coming to a style guide close to you.
It is a new style, the singular they. You wouldn't get an 18th and 19th century author like Jane Austen using it.
Oh wait, she did.
There is nothing new under the sun.
Yes, it's been used for yonks, but has also been officially disapproved of, termed ungrammatical and so on. My wife was an editor in publishing, and was not allowed to use singular they.
But it looks as if it is being rehabilitated, or at least, allowed into style guides. Somebody has their head screwed on. Hee hee hee.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
One of my "pet" irritations, just used by a politician on the BBC News: "outside of" as in "born outside of this country".
And I'm sure I heard a Radio 4 newsreader say "a criteria" ...
[Mind you, to give credit where it's due, someone on the TV news last night talked about "putting engine in the sand" and, having clearly realised their mistake, missed not a beat!]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
Alongside "top of the hour", I'd have to include "next up".
quote:
And next up it's Question Time...
It can be even worse:
quote:
And next up it's Question Time, after the news headlines.
It's bad enough that it's "next up" rather than just "next", but if it's after the news headlines it's not even "next"!
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Anybody who has ever adjusted the timing in their car knows the "top" of "top dead center." Top of the hour is obvious for anybody old enough to have learned to read time from an analogue clock. The hour begins when the minute hand is at the top.
In baseball, the beginning of the inning is called the top. I assume this has to do with when you're writing out the line score -- the top line for an inning and the bottom line for an inning, since you go from top to bottom, in accordance with how the English language is written. Perhaps in China the first 3 outs are called the right of the inning?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Oh yes: "Advanced Warning of roadworks commencing on ...".
As opposed to an ordinary, basic, simple warning, I presume?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
"Back in the day" The indefinite, not definite, article is more appropriate.
"Back in the day" is another phrase that makes me snarl and spit and scratch at the keyboard. It is almost meaningless and is becoming infuriatingly commonplace.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Oh yes: "Advanced Warning of roadworks commencing on ...".
As opposed to an ordinary, basic, simple warning, I presume?
That's a bit like "past experience". As someone else pointed out, what other kind is there?
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
"Back in the day" is another phrase that makes me snarl and spit and scratch at the keyboard. It is almost meaningless and is becoming infuriatingly commonplace.
Whose back? Which day?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
"Back in the day" is another phrase that makes me snarl and spit and scratch at the keyboard. It is almost meaningless and is becoming infuriatingly commonplace.
Whose back? Which day?
It's sorta like the "they" of "They say."
"They say it's going to rain Tuesday."
"They say Trump is going to drop out before the election."
"The say they can create a self-contained biosphere on Mars within the next 30 years."
Another pet peeve of mine is the passive voice used to hide the agent of the verb, or worse yet make up for the fact that there isn't one. This is used all over this thread. "It's not acceptable to use 'ain't'." This of course means "They don't accept using 'ain't'," but it doesn't say who THEY is. It's obfuscation on a grand scale.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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cornflower
Shipmate
# 13349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by cornflower:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Cornflower - there is a UBB practice thread you might find useful. I find it impossible to sort the code/quotes in your last post.
Also, we try and avoid double or triple sequential posts - it looks monopolistic.
Firenze
Heaven Host
What do you mean by double or triple sequential posts...do you mean, like what I've just done by replying to you and then suddenly realising I didn't understand the second bit, so immediately posted again (suddenly realised, I probably could simply have edited my first response to you, sorry), or do you mean, posting several responses in a row,to different posts by different people or what? Slightly confused...am just getting used to this site, so I do apologise for any gaffes. I certainly don't mean to monopolise.
If you have any questions about Firenze's Hostly request, please start a thread in the Styx, so we can keep this thread on topic, and discuss those questions seperately.
Kelly Alves
Admin
(P.S.-- I have deleted what appears to be a duplicate post-- to be distinguished from a double post. )
Thank you. Yes, I did accidentally double-post a while back, but at that stage I didn't know how to edit or delete, I'm afraid ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 111 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I get the impression that US English is less tolerant of 'them - singular' than British English, which sort of knows it isn't quite grammatically correct, but has tended to put up with it because there is no singular pronoun to describe someone that you don't know who they are going to be yet. In rather the same way, in British English words that mean several people, like 'the committee', 'the board' or 'the government' usually take the plural, whereas the best US English is much more stringent in requiring them to take the more logical singular.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Second Post
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
... Another pet peeve of mine is the passive voice used to hide the agent of the verb, or worse yet make up for the fact that there isn't one. This is used all over this thread. "It's not acceptable to use 'ain't'." This of course means "They don't accept using 'ain't'," but it doesn't say who THEY is. It's obfuscation on a grand scale.
One of mine is the 'evasive unable' as in 'I am unable to accede to your request'. That ought only to mean, 'what you're asking for is actually impossible'. What it usually means 'I'm not going to', 'I can't be bothered to', 'it might cost me time or money to, and so I'm not', or just 'b****r off' - but in each case 'I'm not honest enough to say what I really mean'.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
To follow that thought to its logical conclusion, "I'm sorry" is frequently uttered by people who aren't in the least sorry, or are in fact glad.
"I'm sorry you missed your train, but you should have left for the station earlier." Translation: "Ha, ha, that will teach you to procrastinate!"
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I think that, in such cases, "I'm sorry" means "I feel for you" or "I identify with you".
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
To follow that thought to its logical conclusion, "I'm sorry" is frequently uttered by people who aren't in the least sorry, or are in fact glad.
"I'm sorry you missed your train, but you should have left for the station earlier." Translation: "Ha, ha, that will teach you to procrastinate!"
This is an instance where "sorry" is being used in a way defined by social custom, which takes precedence over etymology.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
The chairman of our worship committee insisted on being called the 'chair' until I remarked that he might have a stiff back and four legs, but didn't otherwise much resemble a piece of furniture. I find that the more old fashioned 'convener' works very well.
The aforementioned chairman once sent rejection letters to applicants for the position of music director telling them that we were unable to consider their applications. I pointed out that if I'd been one of them I might have written back asking how I could have been rejected if my application hadn't been considered. He is a school teacher.
There is much comfort to be found in Lake Superior University's banished words list.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
"Chair" as "presider over an assembly" dates from 1658. Interestingly, "chairman" dates to the same decade.
[ 06. September 2016, 01:51: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Anybody who has ever adjusted the timing in their car knows the "top" of "top dead center." Top of the hour is obvious for anybody old enough to have learned to read time from an analogue clock. The hour begins when the minute hand is at the top.
I had always understood "the bottom of the hour" to mean the end of the hour - ie. list all the minutes in the hour sequentially, and these ones come at the bottom of the list.
Apparently it doesn't mean that at all - apparently it means half past. I wonder if anyone other than a radio announcer ever uses it, though.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
"Chair" as "presider over an assembly" dates from 1658. Interestingly, "chairman" dates to the same decade.
Interesting indeed - I learned something old today.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I would have thought that, in the 1650s, a chairman was someone holding up one end of your sedan.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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