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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All things crafty
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Good for you!
And thanks for the link, Firenze. Fascinating.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Which bobbins - a bobbin or a shuttle? I very foolishly lent my hand-cranked Singer sewing machine to a neighbour and didn't get it back before I moved away. It had shuttles like this, which apparently are either transverse or vibrating shuttles, depending on models. Mine had a vibrating shuttle and decals I've never seen before or since, probably a variant on the Egyptian or lotus design. I think it was a 127 or 128, complete with ruffling foot and all. I remember being told it was either from 1901 or 1920s, but I can't remember and I can't find confirmation online.
I do have an electric machine - a Toyota 5001A which is pretty much all solid metal, which I had at the time I lent out this Singer. It's not light and when I acquired it it made my bike too unstable to cycle it home on the carrier, so I had to take it home on the tube, using the bike as convenient wheels. The control wheel that changes the stitches moves along a series of different cams, made in metal, with a very satisfying solid clunk and you can feel the gears being engaged when you push the reverse button.
I acquired it because someone else in the same college crowd who also sewed bought this machine in the reorganisation sale of Barkers/Derry & Toms on High Street Kensington, when it reduced the number of floors in the early 80s. When she bought it she had a long discussion about delivery or taking it with her and ended up with the one she took away at the time and a second one that was delivered. She did all the right things about asking them to collect the unwanted goods and after she waited all the correct waiting times and had had no response, she sold me the second one at half the price she'd paid, so we both got a very cheap sewing machine.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doone:
quote:
Originally posted by Celtic Knotweed:
Now I just need to work out what I'm doing next ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) Start a new project or pick up one of the part-done ones?
Oh, it has to be new, surely ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
I must admit that 2 minutes after posting the above I went and bought a pattern and the soles for some slipper socks. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) Despite the website warning me it would be 7-10 days, the parcel arrived at the parental Knotweeds' abode the next day!
After discussion with the maternal Knotweed regarding the pattern, it looks like I'm doing some test Fair Isle work and a trial pair of socks before I start the slipper pair, having never really attempted either. I may be some time.
I will undoubtedly be distracted by at least 2 other projects and several series of books along the way as well.
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My little sister is riding 100k round London at night to raise money for cancer research donations here if you feel so inclined.
Posts: 664 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Sep 2007
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
For curiosity's sake - bobbins. The metal ones with solid curved sides - I only have perforated straight sided bobbins for my other machines. It also has a bakelite box with cams so that you can change it to zigzag as per the original instruction book!
This I will probably never need to do, but it was a fascinating glimpse into how involved a process it was back then to change stitches.
I have convinced my youngest daughter it is now time to take the oldest sewing machine (circa 1990) and overlocker away - both long promised to her - to make room for my new acquirement.
BL: 'Out with the new to make way for the old!'
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Proud proud new owner of a 1958 black and gold Singer sewing machine today! TP has just turned 60 and we went away for the weekend to a friend's holiday house. On the way we stopped at an arty little village that had (o joy and extreme bliss) an old book shop next to a sewing supplies shop next to an old fashioned tea room. Above the quilters shop was a sewing machine museum and antique/collectibles shop.
Talk about heaven in a row. The sewing machine shop services old machines and sells reconditioned ones and this old Singer - made just before the modern ugly ones came in - was up for sale. The owner gave me a lesson in using it, some old style bobbins and put a new cord on it while we had lunch in the tea room. There will be absolutely no skittering about on the table now when I am sewing canvas or heavyweight materials together. The thing weighs a ton!
BL. Extremely happy owner of a vintage piece that will never need to go to the tip. Every working part inside will be able to be reconditioned should that be needed. More than can be said for all the plastic electronic machines that are made to throw away.
Woohoo! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
What a lovely village.... and what a find!
I absolutely love the old Singer sewing machines and for the last year or so have been refurbishing them them with Tools for Self Reliance. The oldest I've worked on was built in 1912 and I get a kick out of thinking that they've now got another 100 years or so enjoyment and income to come from them. As a beginner I work mostly on the model 99s (no Flake in that), but occasionally on the much heavier 66s (I can't do them for too long without hurting my back). The ones with really ornate Egyptian style decorations are likely to be the 201s which have slightly different engineering, and I often help a colleague (an 88 year old ex-Spitfire engineer) with the fiddlier and heavier aspects of these. Even within the same model there are variations in things like the bobbin winding or tension mechanisms.
Some of the machines have had an electric motor added; these get removed as the partners only want hand cranked ones which can also be put onto a treadle (they have begun to make these bases, although we send them out too). We get a few models (including shuttle, electric and charming circular ones) donated that we can't send so we sell them in the UK at fairs or online to help fund shipment and training for the partners.
The machines often come in with a note telling us its history so far, and the machines themselves give clues of the lives behind it – sometimes a coating of nicotine (yuck) or general grime that needs scraping off, the coating of spider muck indicating years in a shed or a cellar, or (much nicer) loads of pins and ends of threads and nick nacks (but no real treasure yet!) that end up hidden in the base or in the accessory box. While I work on each machine I think back to the people who have been using it, and forward to those who it will go on to - it's easier because when I was in Zambia & in Kenya I've seen them in action, and even had a dress made by a local tailor using a treadle Singer.
Some might argue that they are over engineered, but how many pieces of machinery last for so long ?!
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Daisydaisy, what a lovely project to be involved in ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Glad to know that hundreds of the many millions made are still able to be so useful. The one I bought was a 99.
99 and not out!
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Daisy daisy, have you any contacts with the company All Saints - which irritate me everytime I go past and see all those lovely old machines being wasted? I wasn't sure if they could still be used.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Sounds a fantastic project daisydaisy.
There was a comment on one of the sites I read when trying to work out which Singer I had which said that these machines were built before the idea of built-in obsolescence so can easily last another 100 years with care and servicing.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
I have an old Singer machine that it at least a hundred years old and belonged to my grandmother. I have been intending for years now to get it out and work out how to use it, or just have it on display because it is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Daisy daisy, have you any contacts with the company All Saints - which irritate me everytime I go past and see all those lovely old machines being wasted? I wasn't sure if they could still be used.
I'm not sure, although I remember it being discussed in a tea break. At the moment we are kept busy with machines brought to us usually by people clearing out their parents home. I'll mention it when I'm in on Friday.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Among sewers it is a proverb, to NEVER get rid of your old Singer. They are far better than any modern machine, with the sole exception of zigzagging and buttonholes. Even then, better to buy a second machine to do those things, and keep the old Singer.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I don't know what has happened to my mother's, once her mother's old Singer, with all the different feet I didn't learn the use of until I got my Husqvarna. It had a long shuttle holder which I thought of as a train engine! My sister had it, and since then my mother's Bernina.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
And today gnome painting is on the agenda.
My 98 yr old mother lives in a nursing home where there is a dilapidated gnome garden. After shaking my head over its sad state for four years, I decided to begin repainting them one by one. Two dozen gnomes later, I am now doing 3 of them in honour of the Queen's birthday weekend, which happens here in June. So I have created one as HM in full regalia, one is a grenadier guardsman and one a military policeman.
Most of the others are in various national costumes reflecting all the different nationalities of the staff. There is also a soldier, a sailor, an airman, a military chaplain, and a nurse. These appeared in time for ANZAC day. I did do one as Darth Vader for May the 4th, but he appears to have been gnome-napped.
I suppose I should be flattered my work was worthy of lifting. Or maybe he just disappeared to the dark side? Hmmm....
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I hope you are taking pictures of these guys!
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Wow Banner Lady, I'd love to see them!
[ 02. June 2016, 09:16: Message edited by: Doone ]
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Well, I have pics on my phone of most of them. Not sure how to link them anywhere accessible to this page though. I don't have the patience to fiddle with technology for long. I often forget to keep images of things I have made, as I get far more satisfaction from giving my creations away than looking back at what's been done. Anyone else do that too?
[ 02. June 2016, 11:12: Message edited by: Banner Lady ]
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Granddaughter-Unit is coming to stay with me for the weekend, so my sister and I bought some crafty things for her to enjoy while she's with me. There's a wooden bird feeder and little wooden shapes that we can paint with acrylic paints, and one of those fancy coloring books that seem to be the rage right now.
I'm looking forward to being ten years old again like her!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I meant to keep a log of everything I make, but I immediately forgot to keep it up and it is years now. I do not keep images or anything, I just give them away. (These are mostly knitted baby items.)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I meant to keep a log of everything I make, but I immediately forgot to keep it up and it is years now. I do not keep images or anything, I just give them away. (These are mostly knitted baby items.)
Mrs Sioni was very good at keeping track of what she had done until August last year, when Grandson #1 arrived. Since then quilts and cakes have been made but a fair few have left unphotographed.
[ 02. June 2016, 14:25: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Granddaughter-Unit is coming to stay with me for the weekend, so my sister and I bought some crafty things for her to enjoy while she's with me. There's a wooden bird feeder and little wooden shapes that we can paint with acrylic paints, and one of those fancy coloring books that seem to be the rage right now.
I'm looking forward to being ten years old again like her!
I love it when my granddaughters (10, 6 and 3) come to say as they are all into crafting and we always have a lovely time. I am just amazed at their imaginations.
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
I'm involved in a craft group at our church hall. Recently, we've been joined by a group of people - male and female, who have learning disabilities. They have two care staff with them
We are looking for ideas for crafts which the rest of the group will enjoy, but which can be adapted for this group to do as well.
It's got to be something reasonably inexpensive, we give £1 per week towards equipment. So far, we have done napkin decoupage onto tiles, bead bracelets and painted earthenware pots.
Can anyone suggest anything?
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Tie dyeing? Cheap T-shirts or just strips of fabric, ball of string and some cold water dye.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
A friend once taught me how to make fish to hang up on mobiles using cane and tissue paper. You bend a length of cane (about 2ft) into a fish symbol as in the Early Church (though with a curved face) and tie the crossover with thread or fine string. Then you lie the fish on the tissue paper, glue it with suitable glue, and when the glue is dry, cut round the shape, including the tail.
What you do next depends on skills and bits and pieces. You could just draw on the paper for eyes, mouth, gill and scales. You could stick - though not with wet glue because tissue paper bleeds - cut scales, sequins, whatever.
When finished, find where it hangs best, and put a thread through under the top cane to hang it up.
[ 14. June 2016, 21:48: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Felting is easy, and the materials tend to be easy to find. If you can't get sheep fleece, wool yarn, or even animal fur, will work. I have felted my cat's fur quite successfully.
And kool-ade dyeing goes well with it. All you need is a microwave, to heat the water.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
A friend gets students to make pompoms. You could combine that with knitted hats with one person making the pompoms and another knitting the hats.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Folded card with bits and bobs to stick on to make birthday cards, thank you cards, etc.
Weaving with strips of material.
Small lavender bags tied with ribbon (if hand sewing is possible).
Stitching on binka using large needles and wool or embroidery thread (could become bookmarks or plant mats.
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Very simple origami? You don't have to have special paper--you can use anything, even old magazines. You just have to give them squares to work with.
You also might get some ideas from the catalog at S & S Worldwide., with their various kits and packs. (Not saying you have to buy anything. But they have projects and materials for all sorts of people, including folks with various disabilities. You might be able to come up with cheaper versions.)
Oh, and what about snow globes? You can find instructions online. Basically, you need small (baby food) jars, water, small things to put in the jars, some glitter, simple decorations for the lids, and glue. (Both for gluing things on, and gluing the lid tightly shut.)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
Thanks for these ideas - we are thinking of doing felt flowers as we have sufficient people in the group who can act as helpers. I spotted some iron on transfer paper in one of our pound shops, 2 sheets for £1. That also opens up some possibilities.
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
It is now winter and time to sit in front of the fire to do sorting jobs. I am remaking lots of old jewellery into more useful things. Some for me, some for a charity sales table, some for agape. This is very satisfying recycling!
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
That sounds really good BL, what sort of useful things, please? It's not winter here, but might as well be weather-wise ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 17. June 2016, 12:18: Message edited by: Doone ]
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
When I am doing church related stuff I like to wear cross themed earrings. I used to wear a cross around my neck - but as I have a dropped shoulder it would always end up skewed, unless it was quite heavy. The last straw was when I got accused of having pretensions to being a bishop because it looked like I was wearing a pectoral cross. (Oh puhleese!). But most religious earrings are horridly plain and boring. So I have begun to make my own, in the colours I like. Some are simple and celtic, some are ornate and orthodox inspired, some are very modern, some are long, dangly and sparkly. Getting the crosses is the hard part - I like ones that look the same from both sides.
Also making jewelled corsages with silk flowers, wired jewels and old brooches for gifts at a special dinner for some women who have been through tough times. Trying to source some lapel pin vases or substitutes at the moment to make them look really elegant. Long bead cones would work, but then I need to glue brooch clips to them. Fall back plan is ribbon and safety pins, but I am hoping to do better than that. After doing a favour for a friend who is a florist, I may be able to get them through her. Stay tuned!
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Refrigerator magnets are pretty nice crafts as well, though not for anybody where there's the faintest chance they might swallow the magnets and end up having to have surgery on their intestines. But I don't know anybody who can't do with another particularly pretty fridge magnet, and you can get broad magnetic tape and sheets which are very unlikely to be swallowed (avoid the superstrong tiny round steel thingies). Then print out pretty images or photos, or simply face the magnets with paper or fabric and let people go to down decorating them with beads, feathers, glitter, what have you.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Thank you BL, some lovely ideas!
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Yes, making fridge magnets and book clips with old jewellery is a great way to use up costume jewellery. I've seen some good ideas for Christmas ornaments too - covering styrofoam balls or cones. And jewelled and feathered picture frames is another - but you need LOTS to play with! Pinterest is your friend. If you want ideas, someone else will usually have done it. Sun catchers is another way of using all kinds of bits and pieces.
Currently trying to find blue gingham. I have a granddaughter who desperately wants a Dorothy outfit, and none of the costume shops my daughter has looked at have them for a 3 yr old. Didn't see that one coming this week!
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Found the gingham. Next challenge is sparkly red shoes for a very solid little girl whose feet are almost square. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Cheap red scuffs and very big glittery bows attached - because she will run around outside in her costumes. It will suit all her minnie mouse dresses as well. An outfit for a walking mermaid was the next request.
Now working on a crocodile outfit for her brother. He likes pirates. And I am guessing he will enjoy chasing the mermaid around too. Oi vey.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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mertide
Shipmate
# 4500
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Posted
Has anybody got experience knitting with roving and 35 or 50 gauge needles? My daughter has found a top she'd like me to make (not a pattern, just a picture of a top ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ), but I'm not sure how hard the (not really) yarn is to work with. It looks like it should be quick, but it's not cheap and I'm not sure how awkward such big needles would be.
Posts: 382 | From: Brisbane | Registered: May 2003
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
I have heard of this and that once you get used to it, it is OK, a bit like drafting the roving to spin.
What would put me off is the size of the needles. I find 7 mm hurt my arthritic fingers, I used some 14 mm once for something and hated it. I would consider carefully. As you say, it would be expensive.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Mrs Shrew
Ship's Mother
# 8635
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Posted
I haven't worked with roving (allergy to animal fibres) but what I would day is it doesn't look hard-wearing, given it isn't spun. So you could put a lot of time and effort into something that fell apart pretty quickly.
I haven't had problems with enormous needles, though they do make your hands ache so they are best as a second project ( knit for ten minutes on the huge needles, then do the rest of the evening on a normal project)
Banner lady those costumes sound fantastic! Lucky grandchildren!
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"The goal of life is not to make other people in your own image, it is to understand that they, too, are in God's image" (Orfeo)
Was "mummyfrances".
Posts: 703 | From: York, England | Registered: Oct 2004
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mertide
Shipmate
# 4500
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Posted
Thanks for that advice, much appreciated.
Posts: 382 | From: Brisbane | Registered: May 2003
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Enormous needles are tiring on the hands. If you are able, get a set of circulars in an enormous gaug, they're less awkward.
I concur ith the idea that a fabric made of roving will not wear well. Roving has no tensile strength at all (think cotton batting) and it'll pill like gee golly whiz. Also, the first time you wash it it will felt. It is not difficult to find very fat yarn, often made of acrylic, that will look similar and wear better.
If you must knit or crochet with it, consider felting the resulting work -- roving will felt like a dream. Put the work into a pillowcase or a nylon stocking or something (to reduce pilling, and also to keep your machine from choking up on fuzz), and run it through the washer on hot.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Mrs Shrew
Ship's Mother
# 8635
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Posted
My new sewing machine, as discussed above, has arrived ( although I'm not allowed to use it until my birthday next week). Very excited!
I'm wanting to make a quilt for a friend's new baby as one of my early projects - can anyone recommend a good source of Robot print fabric? ( I'm UK based). I've been told eBay is good, but I don't use PayPal so that is ruled out.
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"The goal of life is not to make other people in your own image, it is to understand that they, too, are in God's image" (Orfeo)
Was "mummyfrances".
Posts: 703 | From: York, England | Registered: Oct 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Etsy seems to have quite a few Robot fabrics. If not there is quite a decent fabric designer in York on the Ship if my memory serves me right.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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