 |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: MW 2778 Compass Church, Goodyear, AZ
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
History lesson, sorry, but some of us are quickly forgetting our heritage.
Formal liturgy did not really exist in England among dissenters and in Scotland in CofS between the 17th and 19th Century. The CofS still held officially with the Knox order, but the papers on it I have read suggest it was honoured in the breach.
Communion basically consisted of the reading of the scriptural warrant and the distributing of the elements. Beyond that what happened was a mixture of local custom and the preference of the celebrant.
This was in English Dissent often a tacked on communion service usually after the main Sunday meeting. The break might be more extreme than Baptist Trainfan indicates,with refreshments happening between the main service and communion. This died out in the second half of the twentieth century among URC churches. However, in Scotland it has been adopted by CofS churches, often for communion services held between quarterly communion*. I believe some Baptists and maybe some Congregationalists still do use this form.
So my suspicion is that the explanation for the liturgy needs no more than a casual glance at the practices of some Independent Congregations who have a fairly low understanding of communion.
Oh my reading of Campbellite Stone is that they originate in a time when the Reformed movement as a whole were rediscovering liturgical practice and their weekly communion reflects this. There are a couple of other interesting things happening liturgically around that time that suggests this.
Jengie
*yes weird, but then height of Eucharistic theology and Height of Eucharistic practice are not correlated in the Reformed tradition. It is only Anglicanism where that seems to happen.
[ 17. November 2014, 17:58: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
The DoC tend to be higher in their practice than the other Campbell-Stone restorationists. I know of at least one DoC minister who believes in the Real Presence, makes the sign of the cross, and celebrates in a chasuble.
Intriguing. If I understand correctly a chasuble is to be worn specifically for the portions of the mass when the eucharist is blessed and administered.
Chasubles are worn for the whole service - word, sermon and prayers, through to the eucharistic prayer and up to the dismissal at the end.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Indeed, most Baptist churches (BUGB) would be able to accept you as a member (although they might ask one or two searching questions); depending on the particular rules of each congregation, quite a number would allow you to be a Deacon (i.e. a lay leader).
Interesting. It's the rare Southern Baptist church over here that will accept someone as a member without believer's baptism by immersion.
--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
Most (non-Strict) Baptist churches will let you be a member without having being baptised by immersion.
Some say that you must have been so baptised to be a Deacon; others only that a majority of Deacons at any one time shall have been so baptised.
Some of this is long-standing, some comes down to the recognition that not all people in Baptist churches are life-long Baptists but may have come from traditions which do things differently.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Quam Dilecta
Shipmate
# 12541
|
Posted
As these examples attest, anomalies in the time of administering communion can occur in very different situations.
Following a Sunday morning service of the word at a Methodist church which I recently visited, worshipers were invited to receive communion in the narthex.
To accommodate the large number of communicants at the Roman Catholic church which a friend attended in in the 1950's, the administration of the Sacrament began during the Epistle, and continued during the rest of the Mass.
Posts: 406 | From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Vidi Aquam
Apprentice
# 18433
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
History lesson, sorry, but some of us are quickly forgetting our heritage.
Formal liturgy did not really exist in England among dissenters and in Scotland in CofS between the 17th and 19th Century. The CofS still held officially with the Knox order, but the papers on it I have read suggest it was honoured in the breach.
Communion basically consisted of the reading of the scriptural warrant and the distributing of the elements. Beyond that what happened was a mixture of local custom and the preference of the celebrant.
This was in English Dissent often a tacked on communion service usually after the main Sunday meeting. The break might be more extreme than Baptist Trainfan indicates,with refreshments happening between the main service and communion. This died out in the second half of the twentieth century among URC churches. However, in Scotland it has been adopted by CofS churches, often for communion services held between quarterly communion*. I believe some Baptists and maybe some Congregationalists still do use this form.
Did they eat right before Communion to show disrespect to the Eucharistic Fast to prove they did not believe in the Real Presence, or was it just a coincidence?
Posts: 33 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vidi Aquam:
Did they eat right before Communion to show disrespect to the Eucharistic Fast to prove they did not believe in the Real Presence, or was it just a coincidence?
So far as I know, the Eucharistic fast was never a Protestant discipline, even among those who do believe in the Real Presence (whether physical or spiritual). I doubt these people knew what the Eucharistic fast was, much less intended disrespect. These Communion celebrations made for very long days; I suspect they were just making sure no one keeled over.
--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Vidi Aquam:
Did they eat right before Communion to show disrespect to the Eucharistic Fast to prove they did not believe in the Real Presence, or was it just a coincidence?
So far as I know, the Eucharistic fast was never a Protestant discipline, even among those who do believe in the Real Presence (whether physical or spiritual). I doubt these people knew what the Eucharistic fast was, much less intended disrespect. These Communion celebrations made for very long days; I suspect they were just making sure no one keeled over.
It makes one wonder how on earth people ever managed much stricter fasts in ages past, or do we just have it too cushy?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Vidi Aquam
Apprentice
# 18433
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
So far as I know, the Eucharistic fast was never a Protestant discipline, even among those who do believe in the Real Presence (whether physical or spiritual). I doubt these people knew what the Eucharistic fast was, much less intended disrespect. These Communion celebrations made for very long days; I suspect they were just making sure no one keeled over.
The Church Of England definitely had the Eucharistic fast, and I'm assuming the Scottish Episcopal Church did as well. The dissenters must have known about their "popish" practices, otherwise what were they dissenting against?
Posts: 33 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Against the Church by Law Established and in some (but perhaps not all) cases the very concept of a Church by Law Established.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
But the CofS is by law established. In Scotland, it's the Piskies who are dissenters.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Indeed. Thought of adding that after I'd posted, but too late.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vidi Aquam:
The Church Of England definitely had the Eucharistic fast, and I'm assuming the Scottish Episcopal Church did as well.
Fair enough. Perhaps I should have been a little more specific and focused on Protestants of the Reformed variety, for whom, so far as I know, the Eucharistic fast was never part of what otherwise could be a quite vigorous preparation for communion.
[ 03. July 2015, 17:46: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]
--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages in this thread: 1 2
|
Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement
© Ship of Fools 2016
UBB.classicTM
6.5.0
|
|
|
|
|
| |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
