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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Eunuch
Gramps49
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The thought occurred to me as I was listening to the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch yesterday, what would you do if a Eunuch--or for that matter any person--came to church, heard the story and seeing the water in the baptistery asked: "Here is water. What is to prevent me from being baptized?"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%208:26-40

[ 04. May 2015, 15:49: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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Baptist Trainfan
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We'd obviously ask him to provide a letter of reference from his previous church, enrol him on a 26-week discipleship course, give him a 2-hour interview, sign him up to a planned giving programme ... or simply do it.

There used to be (may still be) a custom in Baptist churches at services of Believers' Baptism. After the "official" candidates had been baptised, the Minister would say, "The Baptistery stands open, is there anyone who would like to follow Jesus through the waters?" I never saw anyone take advantage of this offer, though, and I don't know what would have happened if a completely unknown visitor had asked for baptism.

It might be worth reminding ourselves that the Ethiopian was by no means without knowledge of the Faith: he was a God-fearing Jewish believer, familiar with the Scriptures and eager to learn. Hearing about Jesus completed his spiritual jigsaw.

(By the way, Baptists often talk(ed) about the "waters" of baptism, I don't know why it has/had to be in the plural!)

[ 04. May 2015, 16:02: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:


(By the way, Baptists often talk(ed) about the "waters" of baptism, I don't know why it has/had to be in the plural!)

To distinguish them from the minimalist quasi-dry-cleaning of us namby-pamby Anglicans?

[ 04. May 2015, 16:20: Message edited by: Angloid ]

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Lamb Chopped
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We've had it happen, and have baptized the person. It's a serious thing to refuse baptism to anybody.
But naturally we did our darndest to get them into proper instruction immediately.

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ExclamationMark
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I never saw anyone take advantage of this offer, though, and I don't know what would have happened if a completely unknown visitor had asked for baptism.

Been there, done it - more than once. If we see baptism as a sacrament - and provided we've explained properly what's going on - then there's no reason not to mediate grace by baptising a "stranger" in our midst. [They may of course b an angel unawares ...]
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daisymay

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In our English church they always put 3 waters on who are getting baptised = sometimes babies and also older ones.
And I was baptised as a baby and then got baptised as a place I lived in for a while. It was in a big water in the church. I had to wear sensible clothes as I got put down in the water and later got to put on clothes dry that I had with me.

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SvitlanaV2
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I once read that Baptists have typically required careful preparation before baptism, as it was the candidate's understanding of and commitment to the doctrines, as well as signs that his/her life had been transformed, that made the baptism valid.

The same book contrasted this idea with the much freer Pentecostal attitude; once the candidate professed to believe, that was all that mattered, so the baptism could take place straight away.

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PentEcclesiastic
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The same book contrasted this idea with the much freer Pentecostal attitude; once the candidate professed to believe, that was all that mattered, so the baptism could take place straight away.

I can vouch for that in the Oneness Pentecostal tradition. When individuals responded to the appeal for salvation at the end of the sermons, those that came forward were whisked off to an area near the baptistery where a minister briefly explained and entertained questions around baptism. Upon agreement, the individual was baptized "In the name of Jesus." Same individual was then ushered to a small chapel where they "tarried to receive the Holy Spirit."

I was never a fan of this, and when I asked the pastor about this practice, I was told that it was never a good idea to deny someone baptism. That if the individual was responding to Christ it was then our duty to baptize them specifically in reference to the Ethiopian. Besides that, the pastor added, that baptism acted as a seal, protecting them from any retribution the Devil was take against the person for stepping forward to accept Christ.

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Oscar the Grouch

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
The thought occurred to me as I was listening to the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch yesterday, what would you do if a Eunuch--or for that matter any person--came to church, heard the story and seeing the water in the baptistery asked: "Here is water. What is to prevent me from being baptized?"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%208:26-40

One thing that struck me as I was reflecting on this passage was that the eunuch's question was rather pointed. As a eunuch (something Luke emphasises in the passage), he would not have been able to become a Jew - something he would probably have known only too well. So the issue is not really "can I be baptised right NOW?" but "will being a eunuch prevent me from being baptised, as it prevents me from becoming a Jew?" Philip's enthusiastic and immediate response would have been a distinct contrast from the reaction the eunuch would have been accustomed to.

On the wider issue or "what is to stop someone from being baptised NOW", I think we need to move away from simplistic appeals to this passage (or any other part of Acts like it) and think a little more carefully. I have known a C of E bishop, at a baptism/confirmation service, make an off the cuff appeal that anyone who wanted to could also come to the font to be baptised. Some people did so and it was then up to the parish priest to sort out the mess afterwards, when it emerged that they had actually already been baptised before.

If you have no problems with "rebaptising" someone, then by all means baptise on demand. But I would think that most people would want to at least ask some basic questions, such as "were you christened as a child?"

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

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Lyda*Rose

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A man I knew was married to a wonderful woman of our church. Unfortunately he had been diagnosed with ALS. One day after church he was speaking to our priest and admitted that he had never been baptized. The priest asked him if he would like to be. He said, "Yes". The priest said, "Okay, let's do it". So they quietly went to the font and did it.

A few months later a huge party was thrown in the church garden for him, inviting everybody he loved and who loved him and he had a wonderful afternoon. Several weeks after that he died.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Brenda Clough
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At our church the bishop was coming to confirm a batch of older teens. It was between the services, and the conformation was due to take place at the second service. We were cleaning up from the first and resetting the table for the second, when one of the teens asked, "Is it OK to be conformed if I haven't been baptised?" The answer is no, it is not. Hastily we dragged out the baptismal bowl and a towel or two, and the rector quickly did him before the bishop showed up.

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Lamb Chopped
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I admit to nearly getting confirmed before baptism (they sussed me out in the final six months of preparation--I think I asked somebody). And we could safely baptize all comers because in our culture, it's vanishingly rare to find someone baptized in infancy, or someone who has been around multiple Christian groups enough to even imagine that baptism could be repeatable, or that the first one wasn't valid for whatever reason.* Though this probably isn't true anymore, as so many of the second generation have grown up in the U.S.

*Now wanting to be married more than once (without benefit of divorce)--that we DO find, and have to guard against!

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Albertus
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I saw it done once, at a service as part pf a deanery mission (CofE). I think there may have been a scheduled baptism but certainly Michael Green, who was elading the service, then asked if anyone else wished to be baptised and someone said they did, so he baptised them there and then. I believe the person turned out to be someone who'd been preparing for baptism anyway, but I know that the Archdeacon, when he heard about it, was rather cross. Still, the baptism, of course, stands.
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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I saw it done once, at a service as part of a deanery mission (CofE). I think there may have been a scheduled baptism but certainly Michael Green, who was elading the service, then asked if anyone else wished to be baptised and someone said they did, so he baptised them there and then. I believe the person turned out to be someone who'd been preparing for baptism anyway, but I know that the Archdeacon, when he heard about it, was rather cross. I'm not sure what his objection was, but the baptism, of course, stands.
I have an impression that it was a custom in some CofE parishes until, I suppose, the 1950s or 60s to set a weekly time aside when infants could be brought for baptism, more or less as a 'drop-in'. Older CofE shipmates may know- am I right, or have I misunderstood something?

Oops- bit of a cock-up on the editing front.

[ 05. May 2015, 14:41: Message edited by: Albertus ]

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Gramps49
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This is an incident that happened in Central Florida at the Episcopalian Cathedral.

A couple had wanted to get their adopted baby baptized. They did their research and felt they would be more comfortable with the Episcopalian church. They started going there, and they felt warmly accepted. After a few weeks they met the dean of the cathedral to discuss baptizing their baby. It was to happen on April 16.

The couple invited family members to attend.

However, three days before the baptism was to take place they got a letter from the dean saying there had been a temporary setback. It seems some members of the congregation objected.

The couple is gay.

Here is a link to their story:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152955072788512&set=a.10150695238303512.391762.740208511&type=1&theater

Note: I am not taking about homosexuals, I am talking about baptizing a child of a gay couple.

Here is the water, what is to prevent the baby from being baptized.

[ 05. May 2015, 16:26: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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L'organist
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I know of a lesbian couple who've been refused baptism for their child in the CofE - by one of their grandmothers too. Worse, when they went to the bishop he backed up the priest grandmother and a letter to Lambeth (++Justin) produced a mealy-mouthed response about 'difficulties' and 'finding a way forward' - I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

Since then they have moved and their new parish has proved more than welcoming: a joint baptism was held for both children, and the whole family was blessed at the end of the service.

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Baptist Trainfan
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Obviously our tradition looks at baptism in a different way; for us the issue would be if the candidate was known to be gay or not. Although I personally wouldn't have a problem, many other Baptist churches might, sadly.

Surely the issue is two-fold:
1. The child is a child. If you consider that children are fit subjects for baptism, and that baptism is important, then it is wrong to discriminate against any child.
2. Can the parents (or is it the god-parents?) honestly make the promises required of them? If so, then where is the problem?

I may have go this completely wrong. If so, then sorry!

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Albertus
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You're quite right. Not to mention, of course, the legal duty of a parish priest to baptise, if you are CofE
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teddybear
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I have only heard of this happening once in an American Roman Catholic Church. It was about 40 years ago when Cardinal Bernard Law was a baby bishop in his first diocese, Springfield-Cape Girardeau, Missouri. I was a newly minted Catholic myself and hung out with the movers and shakers of the parish, so got to spend a lot of time with (then) Bishop Law. He related how when he was making his tour of the wide spread parishes after he first came to the diocese, he related how when he was leaving after confirmations at one of the rural, backwoods parishes he had a man stop him and tell him after listening to his sermon to the confirmands, decided that he wanted to be baptized Catholic. When Bishop Law questioned him further, the man told him he had been married to a Catholic woman for over 30 years and had attended Mass with her every Sunday and holy day during those years, but had never felt the call to convert. But that the bishop's sermon on the Holy Spirit and the Eucharist made him think it was time. The man then insisted that he wanted to be baptized right then. Bishop Law asked him if he had paid close attention to the sermons all those years and the man again stated that he had. Bishop Law then took him back into the church and baptized, then confirmed him right then.

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Gramps49
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The same thing happened with my grandfather, actually. After he married my grandmother they began attending a Methodist church in rural southern Idaho. Together they raised six children in the Methodist church. Grandfather, though, was never baptized until after he had his first stroke. It was sort of a surprise when the first Sunday he returned to church, he approached the minister before the service and asked to be baptized. They did it during the time when the church usually said the Apostles' Creed.

When I was an intern at one church, I got to know a woman who was married to a member of the church. Together the both of them had raised two lovely daughters. She had taught Sunday School for several years. She actually took Christian instruction twice, but she always hesitated when it came to baptism.

Her youngest daughter was about to be confirmed. So I approached her with the question: what's to prevent you from being baptized? She said she would think about it. The next day she called back and said "Let's do it." We did it that evening with her husband and daughters in attendance. The next Sunday she came forward with the confirmands and reaffirmed her baptismal vow in front of the congregation. I don't think there was a dry eye in the congregation.

The reason why she hesitated the first couple of times was she feared being disowned by her parents and brothers and sisters. In fact, they would not talk to her for years until her father became very ill. They all finally relented.

Sometimes becoming a Christian still means being disowned in parts of the Western world.

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Enoch
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Were they atheists or did they have another religion?

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Gramps49
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What I know of the story, they wanted to find a church where they would feel accepted and in which they could raise their son.

Doesn't sound like they were atheists. They may have been from other denominations, but it appears they were Christian.

[ 06. May 2015, 14:37: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I know of a lesbian couple who've been refused baptism for their child in the CofE - by one of their grandmothers too. Worse, when they went to the bishop he backed up the priest grandmother and a letter to Lambeth (++Justin) produced a mealy-mouthed response about 'difficulties' and 'finding a way forward' - I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

Since then they have moved and their new parish has proved more than welcoming: a joint baptism was held for both children, and the whole family was blessed at the end of the service.

The Bishop of Liverpool, in his sermon at this year's Chrism Eucharist, specifically mentioned a lesbian relative of his who asked him to baptise the child of her and her partner. He gladly did, and the family were welcomed into their local church. The bishop then said that they subsequently moved to another part of the country where they were refused a welcome in their parish church. They are now worshipping, and accepted gladly, in a Roman Catholic church. The bishop didn't need to say any more.
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Gramps49
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Pope Francis has said if a gay couple presents a child for baptism, baptize away.
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