Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Are hymn meters different in Welsh?
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Wm Dewy
Shipmate
# 16712
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Posted
Several years ago, I attended a Gymanfa Ganu where I believe the song leader said that while common meter in English is (iambic) 8,6,8,6, common meter in Welsh is (trochaic) 8,7,8,7. Does anyone on the ship know if this is so? Perhaps I misunderstood. If this is the wrong board, I ask your forgiveness and re-direction.
-------------------- "And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"
Posts: 216 | From: Indiana USA | Registered: Oct 2011
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
I've never heard of that personally, nor found it when picking hymns and matching tunes to them. Anybody else?
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
Do I detect a Point of View there, Zappa?
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I'm not 'musical' - at least not in the 'taught' sense - so I can't really comment on hymn-metres. My wife probably could.
I'm not sure there is any substantial difference between Welsh hymn-tune metres and English or other ones ... I'll ask my wife.
I do think that Welsh hymn tunes tend to be in the minor key, though - but that's different.
I do write poetry and although I can manage iambics and so on, I often say that the standard, received wisdom about alternating stressed and unstressed syllables in English verse doesn't apply so readily to people with Welsh accents as we tend to put the stress in a different place ... the accent is always on the penulTIMate syllable in Welsh accented speech - and this is what gives it a characteristic lilt.
The Scots have a different stress pattern too - although, of course, both the Scots and the Welsh are familiar with the standard stress pattern in English.
-------------------- Let us with a gladsome mind Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The metres are exactly the same: that is, they describe the number of syllables per line.
What may be different is the label given to some metres - but then you'll find English common metre isn't common metre in Germany either...
-------------------- Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I suspect that "common meter" is determined by the modal metre for the metrical psalms in that language. There is, therefore, no reason the common meter should be the same in different languages. It might well depend on the preferred meter of a small number of lyricists.
Never thought that a liturgical question might come down to simple statistical definitions.
Jengie
-------------------- "To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
According to the index of metres in "Caneuon Ffydd"
Short metre 6686 Welsh short metre 6786 Common metre 8686 Psalm metre 8787 Long metre 8888
-------------------- "He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wm Dewy
Shipmate
# 16712
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by dyfrig: According to the index of metres in "Caneuon Ffydd"
Short metre 6686 Welsh short metre 6786 Common metre 8686 Psalm metre 8787 Long metre 8888
And all huzzah! Thank you, dyfrig. That's a good lead on the subject.
-------------------- "And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"
Posts: 216 | From: Indiana USA | Registered: Oct 2011
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