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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Summer: the Kingdom of God grinds to a halt
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Not a few of the evangelical churches in my city, especially the charismatic ones, simply close down for weeks at a time in the summer.
This just baffles me.
I can understand fewer activities, but to me having a regular weekly service is even more important when many people are away and those who are left are often those lacking in resources and relying on the church community for social as well as spiritual support.
Unless one sees church as purely a project-oriented undertaking (and even then...) how can this possibly be justified?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've also known evangelical/charismatic churches effectively close down over Christmas too ...
I think the reason is partly demographic - they tend to attract students and 'incomers' -- people who have left the town or region where they grew up and who rely on a support network through their faith/church affiliation.
Where we are, the vicar effectively disappears for August - on holiday and to New Wine - and so there's a scaled down series of services at 10am which combine elements of the more 'traditional' service (for which read, not very traditional Anglican, more like a non-conformist service but with sufficient liturgy to keep it legit') and the more family-style or happy-clappy wannabe 11am service. There's more lay-led participation but some retired clergy are around for the more formal bits when necessary.
That's fine and practical in that particular context.
What baffles me, as it does you, Eutychus, are those evangelical charismatic churches which seem to put everything on hold ...
Another aspect, I think, alongside the demographic - is that such churches rely on creating a particular ethos or atmosphere - and that's harder to do/achieve with a smaller group of people ... so therefore they don't bother.
That may sound cynical ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Our church (MOTR Nonconformist) struggles all the year, as we have a largely elderly (and relatively well-heeled) congregation.
From May to September there are always people on holiday. And our few young families naturally vanish during August.
Then, in the colder months, some folk don't come out because of the weather - although, in general, they're a surprisingly hardy bunch.
Our choir used to be "off" during August - but now we're on a week-buy-week basis from June to September.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Sounds odd. Is it possible that for some reason essential personnel (whoever that may be) are out of town and can't be replaced?
I'm finding it hard to picture, but I know we've had to cancel services for a week when my husband is gone, as we have no one capable of taking the services, either another pastor or a lay person.
But then, there's a language problem in the picture for us.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I think the reason is partly demographic - they tend to attract students and 'incomers' -- people who have left the town or region where they grew up and who rely on a support
It would be interesting to know the sort of city Eutychus lives in, and if these churches are indeed attracting this demographic. Don't forget that young families are tied to the school holidays, so may well be away.
Mind you, I knew a very traditional Anglican church in London which suffered in the summer because the congregation were rich and either went off for weekends away (when they were working) or to their country cottages (when they were on holiday). Sundays became problematic!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Our shack goes into sort of half-animation: servcies continue but without the choir (many of whom are university students anyway) and without the weekly notice sheet- just readings. Otherwise we keep going. The Welsh-speaking chapels in Cardiff tend to share out the Sunday services between them in August, on a rota basis, so there are united services each Sunday, each Sunday in a different chapel. But then, Eutychus, am I right in thinking that in France August is still a month when lots of things close down, or more or less close down?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Can't say I've seen much evidence of it around my area. I'm unconvinced by generalities, as the few churches I know who do change things over the summer have reasons specific to them.
For example, mine didn't so much as cancel a service as just move it, as most of the congregation was away at a festival.
Another I know can't afford its own building, so hires a school hall, but got kicked out over the summer due to scheduled maintenance works and couldn't find a suitable substitute venue.
The other compromise is where you have a church with such a large congregation that they've previously split into having two meetings, join them together whilst many of the more affluent are away on holiday.
Yet none of these reasons is inherently linked to their denomination.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
Our numbers swell from visitors and family coming home for the summer. Our congregation can triple at times in the summer compared to the depths of winter.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Since planting a church here in 1989 I don't think we (as a church, not Mrs Eutychus and I!) have ever missed a Sunday during summer apart from the very first year, when we sent everyone back to the church we planted out from. (To answer Baptist Trainfan, I'm in a university city about the size of Southampton).
We've occasionally decamped in the early autumn for one Sunday for a church weekend or similar, or once during the year for a joint service.
Apart from single-industry towns like Sochaux where Peugeot's main factory is, I think the wholly empty French city in August is in any case now a myth. Certainly there are more people here this year than I've ever seen before in summer.
I think part of the reason some churches close during summer is, unfortunately, as Gamaliel says that a certain type of atmosphere is required. If you have a kind of worship that requires a four-piece band and PA as a minimum, you're struggling right there.
Demographics probably play a part. We appeal to the basket cases that don't get to go on holiday ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
The churches I have in mind are heavily reliant on the student demographic too, but also tend to attract teachers and lecturers who in my experience never get out of the two-month-disappear-from-ordinary-life mindset. (We have too many intellectual professions too. I would like more people from industry and sales but they are sorely lacking. Most Christians in that demographic seem to be Catholic or Pentecostal).
But unless one's vision of church is basically a series of mini-New Wines, I really don't understand how these folks can expect to build anything durable without that kind of stickability.
[ 11. August 2015, 21:54: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
The Kingdom of God is going strong; the Church less so, but no less than usual. It's summer that has ground to a halt round here.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
One advantage of other churches in the area taking a break is that their members who are still around might attend (or be encouraged to attend) your church instead! It's a good opportunity for you to display how great you are!
Seriously, I imagine that the leaders do encourage their members to attend churches elsewhere. It might be refreshing for them to experience worship in another environment, even if they go to a church that's apparently similar to their own.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
In Oz, with a Christmas summer, church life becomes very slow, as vacations, celebrations and heat take their toll.... But we soldier on... Small but happy.
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
We have shorter services during August. There's one week in particular where 90% of the church, including all the leadership and admin, are all at New Wine. That's when Hugal and I get to run the service between us! This year we still got 30ish people, several of them visitors.
We are having a picnic in the park on 30 August instead of service. Don't like the idea but then I don't do Outside.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The Kingdom of God is going strong; the Church less so, but no less than usual.
Well yes, I was just looking for a snappy thread title!
But it seems all the weirder to me - theologically - that churches for which the business of gathering together to worship is supposed to be a large part of what "Kingdom life" is all about should have such a hiatus.
[ 12. August 2015, 07:23: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Sipech is right, these things do not lend themselves to generalisations and it's an issue across all denominations to some extent or other - I've come across small Orthodox parishes which cancel services because they feel the need of a properly trained cantor to lead the services - and if one isn't available they can't function ... or where almost everyone stays at home when the priest is on holiday.
I do think, though, that some forms of evangelical charismatic church are more prone to the closing down for summer/Christmas whenever else tendency ... because as Eutychus has said, if you feel that you are reliant on a set of drums, a guitarist, bass player, singer/worship leader and whopping big PA system in order to strut your stuff then you are going to be reluctant to have an unplugged, stripped back service ...
The same applies in reverse in some of the more liturgical outfits.
Far too many of us - from all points of the compass - have become obsessed about putting on a good show.
What's wrong with a wheezy organ every now and again - or a scratched together choir or a single guitar and keyboard when the rest of the 'worship band' are doing it large at New Wine or whatever else it happens to be?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
While the choir is "off" for August there is music at all services.
Being in an area visited for holidays, we get quite a few visitors: we lay on extra coffee and tea after services, and produce an activities sheet for child visitors.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Like Eutychus, I'm surprised - a generation ago, once a week attendance at those sorts of churches wouldn't have been nearly enough, there were all sorts of house groups and prayer meetings to attend as well. I remember the very keen Christian Union leaders who suggested that anything less than such full commitment was 'backsliding' - one reason why I decided to leave CU and just go to church instead. (Although, being a good chorister, I probably spent at least as much time at church than they did!)
In my present church, the choir get August off, apart from the occasional wedding. By the end of July, we are more than ready for a break. But said services continue - Eucharist in the main town church and Evensong in the church on the hill (bring your hiking boots and dogs, for the service by gaslamp).
People do seem to miss the choral services, though, and we are usually told, several times, that they are glad to have us back. I think the other main difference is that there is no children's group during August. People are, of course, welcome to bring them, and there are toys and activities available in a side aisle, but several families take the opportunity to have a family holiday instead. And why not!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
What's wrong with a wheezy organ every now and again - or a scratched together choir or a single guitar and keyboard when the rest of the 'worship band' are doing it large at New Wine or whatever else it happens to be?
You just know that the day that the Mystery Worshipper will show up!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
What's wrong with a wheezy ... a scratched together choir?
Why are they scratching? Have they got fleas under their gowns? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Mind you, you can be sure that it'll be on the Sunday with the Lay Preacher, the third-line organist, the substitute Sunday School teacher, the once-a-year flower arranger, and the scratch choir when the Mystery Worshipper comes calling ..
(Edit:) Ah, I now see that I'm not the only Shipmate with that idea!
[ 12. August 2015, 12:47: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Cathscats
Shipmate
# 17827
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Posted
I can tell you where at least some of your missing, from all continents are: they are worshipping with us! Visitor season is in full swing.... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"...damp hands and theological doubts - the two always seem to go together..." (O. Douglas, "The Setons")
Posts: 176 | From: Central Highlands | Registered: Sep 2013
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
Children's work and the need for safeguarding is often the culprit. Churches used to get by on much more informal arrangements for children's provision during Sunday Services. if you are a church with lots of families (hence children) and a lively kids work you need to give your hardworking kids leaders a break. Then in these days of safeguarding you can't just give the normal leaders a few weeks off and replace them with willing volunteers. So that's often why services over the summer period have a different flavour or why many churches run a different schedule over the summer. The church I attend there would be something on but it might not look like a "normal" Sunday service over the summer. I do know of one church locally that does close down over the summer - I think this does (or did) have a high proportion of students in the congregation who I guess would be away over the summer.
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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek
Posts: 438 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2013
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jammy Dodger:
Children's work and the need for safeguarding is often the culprit. Churches used to get by on much more informal arrangements for children's provision during Sunday Services.
How true - the reason our choir used to be so full of children is that they, bored with their parents having a Sunday lie-in, used to take themselves off to church, and ask to join the choir. It just couldn't happen nowadays.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Our shack goes into sort of half-animation: servcies continue but without the choir (many of whom are university students anyway) and without the weekly notice sheet- just readings. Otherwise we keep going.
Lack of noticesheet is due to the fact it is printed (by arrangement) by the school where the vicar's husband teaches.
In work church we have no Sunday School and main choirs are on holiday but Eucharist and Evensong remain choral with our Occasional choir or visiting choirs. Martins is said. Congregation numbers are lower but not poor.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
I'm still getting used to the way that out here on the western side of Canada, almost everything closes down for all of July and August.
Services remain pretty much the same, but numbers are down as so many people go away for a month at a time. But then, there are ALWAYS people coming and going around here - some flitting off to the UK, others going to visit family in other parts of Canada and others heading off on cruises for a few weeks (everyone seems to go on cruises around here).
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Here in central Arizona, where the temperatures are a foretaste of Hell in the summer, everyone who can possibly leave town does so. (Whereas in the winter, when the northern U.S. and Canada are more like Dante's inmost circle of Hell, congregations are supplemented by those who come down here to escape the cold.) Even though our attendance is less than half what it is in the winter, we have our regular service schedule. Church School is not held, but children have a sermon-time activity in the parish hall. The Choir is on vacation, but an ensemble of volunteers provide just as much music as the Choir normally would. Our Rector has difficulty taking any time off in the summer months, because even our non-stipendiary, mostly retired clergy are here only in the cooler months.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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gog
Shipmate
# 15615
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The Welsh-speaking chapels in Cardiff tend to share out the Sunday services between them in August, on a rota basis, so there are united services each Sunday, each Sunday in a different chapel.
That's due to the tradition of the Minister having all their leave (bar a week) in August, so no one to fill the pulpilt
Posts: 103 | From: somewhere over the border | Registered: Apr 2010
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
The Baptist churches here maintain their own morning services, but have united evening services in various places. We hosted one the other week. Generally one church hosts and provides the music, a second preaches and the third shares topics for prayer.
[ 13. August 2015, 12:01: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Rosa Gallica officinalis
Shipmate
# 3886
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Posted
In my curacy we moved from having coffee in the church hall to coffee in the pub in August to give the coffee making volunteers a break, but everything else continued as usual.
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Come for tea, come for tea, my people.
Posts: 874 | From: The Hemlock Hideout | Registered: Jan 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
My nearest medium-sized town has 5 Salt & Light (charismatic) churches with one in my local small town. There's a definite lull with some shutting up for the summer and some stripping back services. Summer holidays plus New Wine/Soul Survivor/Momentum would be my guess as to why.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Business as usual in this corner of the Lord's vineyard, with our full round of daily Morning Prayer, and Eucharists on Sundays, Wednesdays and Saturdays (celebrating the *ahem* scripturally-challenged Feast of the Assumption tomorrow, naturally, as enny fule kno).
Attendance - always erratic at the best of times - is slightly down, with folk away (or, sadly, off sick), but the idea of shutting down for a month never occurs to us. We're a Church of England parish church, and, therefore, the church for the parish, whether they attend or not!
A couple of weekday clubs do take a break, as does the pre-school Nursery which is now the main user of our Hall.
We often seem to notch up a gear or two in September, though.......(said he hopefully)!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
(celebrating the *ahem* scripturally-challenged Feast of the Assumption tomorrow, naturally, as enny fule kno).
Scripturally challenged? Where does scripture (NT anyway) say that the dead do not rise again in Christ?
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
The choir at my church is on holiday for all of January following all the hard work over Christmas. However most are in the congregation and it is enjoyable to sing with the congregation. The services are otherwise just as normal over Summer although people come and go due to holidays. I think it is important to recognise how hard everyone involved in the running of the church works all year and need a break to refresh.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
A local anglican church (broadly evangelical) in our vicinity cuts its evening service over summer. Nothing particularly unusual in that perhaps, but one regular evening worshipper not thrilled by this asked her rector what she was supposed to do for her weekly church attendance, as mornings weren't very practical for her. His reply - surprisingly, I thought - was 'Take a holiday!' It might've been a joking reply, but it was also his only reply. No recommendations of where she could go, or even a show - fake or genuine - of concern for her needs. She felt dismissed and belittled.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
For some unfathomable reason (The Influence Of The Holy Spirit, maybe? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) ),our attendance has actually gone up during August (so far, anyway..... ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) ).
There was a bit of a blip on Sunday 9th, when we were almost The Invisible Church (TM), but our monthly Eucharist at sheltered accommodation that w/e almost made up for it. We had a full house in our Lady Chapel for the Assumptiontide Walsingham Cell Mass last Saturday, together with a good turn-out last Sunday........ ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Son the Younger's church stops its usual children's programme for August, but does a different activity instead. This year, they are providing worksheets with a quiz and colouring activity, each week based on a different stained glass window in the church. The older ones are also encouraged to read stories from the illustrated children's bibles. The change of tack has ensured that most children still continue to come - church is still there, but different.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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