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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Funeral Processions
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Good morning from a wet and hazy Sydney day.
Wondering whether people have had experience in organising the procession into church for a requiem mass: what is the order of the procession?
My thought would have been Thurifer, followed by cross and acolytes, then choir, visiting clergy, MC - does the coffin follow then with the sacred ministers following, or sacred ministers with the coffin coming last?
Want to make sure things go well p- the funeral is that of a colleague and friend who died suddenly in a farm accident - you might even have seen the report as it went out all round the world on AAP - Fr Max-Augustine Eggert. His death has left such a large, gaping hole in the lives of so many that we want to ensure that we do things in the best Anglican order!
Any other tips, suggestions for a priest's funeral: we will be laying a stole on the coffin.
Many thanks.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Emli, I cannot answer your question, but am sure someone will be able to help you.
However, I want to assure you of my prayers for you and the funeral on Thursday and for all your small communities through Sydney as you learn to cope with this sudden change in your circumstances.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
I too am sorry I can't offer any answers re your question but am praying for your community and hope that the funeral offers support and God's comfort to the grieving. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
It's been a bit of time since we were last at St Alban's - are they still searching for a new Rector? It's an attractive church with a very wide chancel so the funeral should go well there.
As to your procession - I've been to quite a few funerals and the practice I've always seen is that the coffin is led into the church by the priest a quarter hour or so before the service. The procession at the end would be thurifer, crucifer, acolytes, priest (chanting the Nunc), coffin, and then choir, and finish with lay assistants and other clergy from the sanctuary. Clergy in the congregation should not process.
Who's taking the service? My recollection is that you've been deaconed and remain in the vocational diaconate. I can't know of any other priests yet in the communities. I can't make the service, Madame may be able to get there, but we shall both be remembering Fr Max-Augustine and the communities at the sad time.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Funeral of a priest:
A few things: - priests are usually buried in vestments
- the norm is that a priests's body is received into church the night before the requiem
- the coffin is met by the senior priest taking the service - no one else
- other clergy, servers, choir should process in before the body arrives
- the coffin is placed with the head nearest the altar
- once in place, the coffin should have placed on it a book of the Gospels
- once the coffin is in place it should be asperged and censed
- at the end of the Requiem is may be asperged again during the Commendation
- the body leaves church led by the celebrant
Although not written down anywhere, most of the 'good' clergy funerals I've been to have avoided a gaggle of priests and servers following the coffin; instead the family of the priest have followed the coffin out of church. Similarly, if it is to be an interment then the family should have first place at the graveside.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
The 2nd and 4th of your procedures are not the practice here. The priest taking the service will meet the coffin and take it from the hearse to the head of the nave aisle, but the hearse will not normally arrive until about 15 to 20 minutes before the service. The family follow the clergy/choir procession, then each pew follows, starting from the front. It's not normal to cense and asperge on arrival, but definitely just before the final prayer and the Nunc.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Kind Hosts - could you please delete the first on my last 2 posts?
[done - JH]
[ 09. May 2016, 13:17: Message edited by: John Holding ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
To add to what L'Organiste has said:
The body of a priest is customarily placed in the middle of choir (given ample room, of course), unlike those of lay persons, which are normally in the nave at the head of the aisle.
From personal experience: the biggest problem with clergy funerals is the other clergy attending, ALL of whom think they know the best (or only) way everything should be done, and feel free to butt in!
Make sure you have a calm, competent and FIRM verger/MC.
(And good luck!)
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
As a matter of curiosity, is there any authority for any of these propositions, any manual or even a sheet of instructions on how to bury or cremate clergy? e.g that the coffin is brought in differently, positioned differently etc etc. And are clergy actually buried in vestments? I've heard this before, but have no idea if it's true. Does that also apply if they are cremated? It seems a pity to burn a set of vestments. And in a country where the coffin is screwed down before the service, how would people find out these things? Do undertakers know all this stuff? It would be useful to know.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
That of course assumes that the choir stalls are east of the crossing - not the case at St Sanity, nor from memory, at the church where this funeral is to be held. In both instances, and in numerous others here, the choir stalls are in a loft above the narthex.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Thanks JH.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
For the Roman Catholic Church, the authority is Ordo Exsequiarum, issued by the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship. The English-language edition is called The Order of Christian Funerals. Whether in Latin or the vernacular, the volume contains the rubrics, rituals and prayers for funerals. Most of the items mentioned here are covered there.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Our practices for the funeral of one of our priests:
- Buried in vestments
- Visitation culminating in wake (not rosary) the night before in the seminary chapel, brought to basilica just before burial;
- Met at door by presider, MC and family (just like any other funeral);
- Asperge casket as part of opening rites (again, standard)
- After the casket has been brought to the front of the nave (nowhere else to put really given our architecture), sign of religious profession (a crucifix) is placed on top of the pall (for brothers it would be a medal of St. Joseph; both of these are items given at profession of perpetual vows);
- Casket leaves in procession behind all concelebrants (again, standard for all funerals);
- All who are able process over the cemetery for commital.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Thanks all for your prayerful support.
All planning, preparation, printing, music etc. arranged and ready. Will be leaving at 10.30 to go to St Alban's and set up and have final run through. After much thought and discussion the service will start with the coffin being received at the door of the church and after introductory prayers it will then be sprinkled and censed (the family have opted to be in their place in church at this stage.
The procession will then enter with thurifer, then cross/acolytes, choir, visiting clergy (including at least one bishop who wishes to be with the visiting clergy), then the sacred ministers, with the coffin being carried in on the shoulders of the pall bearers. The procession(to 'I bind unto myself this day')proceeds up to the nave with the coffin then being placed at the foot of the chancel steps and with the paschal candle at its head. The service will proceed as normal.
Some of the music includes:
'Amazing grace'
'I know that my Redeemer lives'
'I am the bread of life'
'See the day that sees him rise, alleluia!'
The choir will be singing Psalm 130, a setting of 'Ave Maria' by Tchaikovsky during communion.
All in all should be a fitting service of thanksgiving and commitment of a faithful priest and pastor.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
Wow, I don't know that I've ever seen a casket borne on the pallbearers' shoulders, except in old pictures and movies. Due to the weight of the casket, I've always seen the pallbearers lift it by the handles and carry it into the church, especially when there are steps involved. Otherwise the catalfalque is usually on wheels and the pallbearers simply walk next to it.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Carrying the coffin on the shoulders is not at all uncommon here in the UK.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
How are pallbearers selected? I assume that height and physical ability come into play, but that they are also relatives/friends of the deceased. Does the status of the candidates ever come into play? (If Lord Peter Wimsey died, would his brother the Duke of Denver be a pallbearer, or is a Duke considered too exalted to do this kind of thing?) Trying and failing to call to mind images of royals at funerals...
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Carrying the coffin on the shoulders is not at all uncommon here in the UK.
Indeed - a UK coffin and a US casket are very different things. For starters the handles (or grips, to the trade) on a UK coffin are pretty much there for decoration - if cremation is intended they will be plastic, so are not weight bearing.
Ideally you pick pall bearers for even height if possible, though I remember my father - ex undertaker - spluttering at a royal funeral (Queen Mother?) which definitely had one short pallbearer, making the whole thing very wonky. However the deceased may have left specific instructions as to who will do the job, in which case...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Carrying the coffin on the shoulders is not at all uncommon here in the UK.
Indeed - a UK coffin and a US casket are very different things. For starters the handles (or grips, to the trade) on a UK coffin are pretty much there for decoration - if cremation is intended they will be plastic, so are not weight bearing.
AG
Believe it or not, this is an English view and not necessarily a Scots. There are areas in Scotland where burial and pall-bearing are still the norm.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Surely pall-bearers are necessary at any funeral, cremation or otherwise? Though why are they called that rather than coffin-bearers - surely the pall is the cloth which (should) cover(s) the coffin?
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Surely pall-bearers are necessary at any funeral, cremation or otherwise? Though why are they called that rather than coffin-bearers - surely the pall is the cloth which (should) cover(s) the coffin?
As least in my experience, coffins or caskets are not needed at a funeral in the US if the body is to be cremated. Unless the service is a memorial service (with the body not present at all), the cremation typically happens before the funeral, and instead of a casket there is simply an urn—which has led to palls like this one. In those cases, at most one person is needed to carry the urn out of the church and to the columbarium, scattering garden or wherever.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
In Scotland many bodies are cremated.Usually in Catholic funerals the body will be present at a Funeral/Requiem Mass and then taken to the crematorium for a separate farewell cemetery.
UK coffins are quite different from American caskets . (German coffins are also quite different from both).
If a pall is used nowadays it is usually white (pre Vat.2 black)Local custom dictates sometimes that the coffin will be carried on the shoulders of family members though here in Edinburgh the coffin is usually moved on a trolley provided by the undertaker.
Presbyterian funerals will sometimes have a church service after the cremation but there is no set order for processions as the Church of Scotland doesn't really 'do processions'.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
A few bits and pieces on a subject on which I am not an expert.
I'm under the impression that palls are rather unusual at CofE funerals. I once heard an undertaker say in response to somebody who asked about having one, 'We don't normally get asked for one of those. They're very London'.
I think most people regard it as much more normal for the coffin to be carried in on the shoulders of the bearers rather than wheeled around on a bier. During the service it usually rests on two low tables or trestles. If bibles, crosses etc are placed on the coffin, they aren't normally buried with the deceased. I still have the Bible that was on my late mother's coffin.
The practice in some countries of the deceased being visible in a coffin without the lid on it, is as good as unknown here and would undoubtedly shock virtually everyone's sensibilities.
Sprinkling with water is optional in the CofE and I think not that frequent. The instructions allow for either, but when I've seen it done, it usually comes at the end, when the coffin leaves the church, not at the beginning. At the beginning, the coffin is almost always led in by the vicar who recites a series of scriptural verses. This goes back at least as far as the Reformation if not further.
If the whole service is at the crematorium, you have to pay extra if you want a longer slot. If the service is at church, with the cremation afterwards, the cremation is usually very short, not really any longer than the burial part of a traditional funeral, though without the casting of the soil. One curious local difference is that in much of the country at a crematorium, the coffin slides away into the furness horizontally, but round here, it descends.
[ 12. May 2016, 22:11: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
At our church we thriftily use the appropriate veil (usually the white one) to cover an urn at a service in which the deceased was cremated. It's just about the right size. We do also have a very expensive black pall which is long and wide enough to drape a coffin.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
At our church we thriftily use the appropriate veil (usually the white one) to cover an urn at a service in which the deceased was cremated. It's just about the right size. We do also have a very expensive black pall which is long and wide enough to drape a coffin.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Devils Advocate
Shipmate
# 16484
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Posted
At our place the cortege ( coffin plus bearers and director) is met at the West Door by the Officiant in cope and the crucifer and is then processed into church with the appropriate sentences and then placed on trestles or a bier ( Usually supplied by the Funeral Director) At the end the coffin is aspersed and censed and then led out of church by cross and officiant who stand to one side of the hearse while the deceased is loaded into the back. If the deceased were received the night before the funeral the same arrangements would apply as far as reception is concerned but the coffin would be covered by a pall ( ours or the Undertakers depending on what is wanted) Our Pall is very large very heavy and very purple. It really needs to be on a frame which the coffin can be slid under.
In our neck of the woods wheeling the coffin in on a trolley would be looked on as being a very cheap solution. If the choir were needed then they would enter the choir stalls reverently before the deceased arrived. If a Requiem Mass were to be celebrated then the coffin would always be revived the evening before the Mass, and at the mass the altar Party would enter after the choir and proceed straight to the High Altar ( we couldn't use the Nave altar because the coffin would be in front of it and there wouldn't be space.
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
Posts: 97 | From: Lincs | Registered: Jun 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Devils Advocate:
... If a Requiem Mass were to be celebrated then the coffin would always be revived the evening before the Mass, ...
Do you get hordes of families seeking this? And how do you tell? Are there knocks? Why doesn't it get in the press? And theologically, shouldn't this happen during Mass rather than before it.
Or, alas, it it merely that the phantom spellchecker has struck again?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Devils Advocate
Shipmate
# 16484
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Posted
Phantom Spell check Im afraid!
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
Posts: 97 | From: Lincs | Registered: Jun 2011
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Not being called upon to take many funerals these days I might be a bit out-of-date with observations.
Bearing in mind the vast majority of C of E funerals are for nominal (at best) Anglicans with little connection to the church, the will of the funeral director rather than liturgical good practice tends to prevail.
So, a pall is very rarely used. Few churches possess them anyway but unless the deceased was a practising Christian and/or had specifically requested one, the default is a bare coffin.
However, pall (coffin) bearers are nearly always used in my experience. Often they are members of the family (usually male), but equally often they will be undertakers' staff. I have rarely seen the coffin wheeled in on a trolley, although it does happen, though often the undertaker will use such a trolley in place of a bier during the service, which is less than elegant.
Sprinkling the coffin with holy water, usually at the Commendation but sometimes at the beginning as well, used to be confined to high-church shrines, but it is increasingly popular in MOTR and low churches also. Incense less so.
But funerals in the church building are very much the minority these days. The majority of funerals taken by C of E clergy are held in the crematorium chapel. Private cremation followed by a service where the coffin is replaced by the ashes in an urn is almost unheard of in this country. Burial rather than cremation is the minority choice though not rare; often too (depending on local provision) in a cemetery chapel rather than the parish church.
I think the provision of slots at crematoria depends on the local policy. Some offer a comparatively generous 45 minutes between funerals, which allows for a full service. Others work to a tighter schedule which can cause frustration and 'Crem rage'.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Oh, now there is a term new to me. Could you define 'crem rage', ideally with examples?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
There seems to be quite a lot of 'pond difference' in funeral practices. Here in the US, at least in TEC parishes, over 60 years of funeral participation in various capacities, I can recall only one funeral without a pall over the coffin, except for military funerals at which the US flag is customary. The exception was for a member of the presidential cabinet, who had been IIRC a senator from Maryland. The Maryland flag was used; it is quite the most splendid of all the 50 states!
Funerals involving cremation here are either before or after the cremation, with after becoming more common.
Palls are white, purple or (rarely now) black. It is quite rare for the pallbearers to actually carry the coffin, except from the hearse into the narthex, and out again at the end. Almost always men, usually chosen by the family, though one friend tells of a relative 'who everybody hated so much that we had to pay pallbearers!'
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
Processions, regardless of their purpose, always form from the least important to the most important personages.
In the case of a Roman Catholic Requiem, it is assumed that the corpse is already in the church at the crossing on a catafalque covered by a pall, so it will not be a part of the procession. (The assumption being that Matins was sung prior to the funeral.)
The procession begins with the thurifer, the Bishop having made incense before the procession, followed by the crucifer, the choir, the subdeacon, the deacon, the priest, and the bishop.
Failing the availability of such august people, you make do.
The old (1928) American Prayer Book indicated that the priest was to precede the body in procession; the new (1979) Book only notes that "it is customary that the celebrant meet the body and go before it into the church or toward the grave."
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