homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Hymns for OT saints?

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.    
Source: (consider it) Thread: Hymns for OT saints?
Offeiriad

Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031

 - Posted      Profile for Offeiriad   Email Offeiriad   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've just spent a frustrating morning delving for hymns to echo tomorrow's Old Testament passage. Do we only have 'The God of Abraham praise' to celebate Abraham? 'Mission Praise' (I know, I know....) offers no better, but a trawl through my library has produced little better. I finally found one hymn each on Abraham and on Moses in a slim volume called 'A true glory', produced by the Anglo-Orthodox Society in 1984.

Is this 'it', or can anyone suggest a better source of more hymns celebrating Old Testament figures and their ministries? Suggestions welcome!

Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
'Joshua fit the battle of Jericho'. 'When Moses was in Egypt's land'...? Negro spirituals are more likely to refer to the OT than many other kinds of traditional hymn music. This is because Africans of the diaspora invested the OT with a meaning specific to their condition and experience. I don't know if this would be meaningful to your congregation, though.

There's probably something the little kids could do regarding Noah's ark. There are also some nice little songs on Youtube about the 10 Commandments.

Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

 - Posted      Profile for Amanda B. Reckondwythe     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"Didn't My Lord Deliver Daniel"

The Lift Every Voice and Sing hymnal is a treasure trove of these.

--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965

 - Posted      Profile for Basilica   Email Basilica   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
For Isaiah you have the glorious "Bright the vision that delighted".

But it's true: there's little hymnody that's explicitly about the Old Testament.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349

 - Posted      Profile for Anglican_Brat   Email Anglican_Brat   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There is the Lenten hymn: The Glory of these Forty Days

Which might not be appropriate outside of Lent [Biased]

--------------------
It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745

 - Posted      Profile for Ecclesiastical Flip-flop   Email Ecclesiastical Flip-flop   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
There is the Lenten hymn: The Glory of these Forty Days

Which might not be appropriate outside of Lent [Biased]

The different forty days which can now be commemorated this time of year, begins today 6 August, the feast of the Transfiguration and ends on 14 September, the feast of the Holy Cross.

--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!

Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

 - Posted      Profile for L'organist   Author's homepage   Email L'organist   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What about Jacob's Ladder?

--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
Offeiriad

Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031

 - Posted      Profile for Offeiriad   Email Offeiriad   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Hmm, we seem to have identified a hole in the market, don't we? I'm a bit surprised, given the renewed emphasis on our Jewish roots in recent years.

Perhaps somebody needs to write something along the lines of 'By all the saints in warfare...' - i.e. 'general' verses to start and end, with a choice of middle verses relating to individual OT personalities? It has been years since I wrote a hymn and I'm considerably out of practice, but maybe it needs to be yet another retirement project.

Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The problem is, perhaps, that mainstream Christians have spent a lot of time distancing themselves from the OT and its roughness, so to suddenly start writing serious songs about it would require quite a bit of justification.

Anyway, as for the OP, why not just have everyone sing 'When the saints go marching in'? It doesn't specify who the 'saints' are, so perhaps the congregation could be encouraged to envision different OT prophets as they sing it.

[ 06. August 2016, 18:18: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
BabyWombat
Shipmate
# 18552

 - Posted      Profile for BabyWombat   Email BabyWombat   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
God of the Prophets, Bless the prophets heirs? (or sons if you must…..) - at least the first 2 verses….. (not quite Abraham or Moses though is it?……hmmmm)

--------------------
Let us, with a gladsome mind…..

Posts: 102 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2016  |  IP: Logged
Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

 - Posted      Profile for Nick Tamen     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The problem is, perhaps, that mainstream Christians have spent a lot of time distancing themselves from the OT and its roughness, so to suddenly start writing serious songs about it would require quite a bit of justification.

I think that's a pretty broad overgeneralization. Neither assertion is true of all mainstream Christian traditions.

In just a quick look through the new Presbyterian hymnal, I find Brian Wren's "Deep in the Shadows of the Past," Judith A. Fetter's "To Abraham and Sarah (I Will Be Your God)," "When Israel Was in Egypt's Land (Let My People Go)", Greg Scheer's paraphrase of the Rwandan "Heaven Opened to Isaiah (Holy, Holy, You Are Holy)," and Joy Patterson's "Isaiah the Prophet Has Written of Old,"

And, of course, for just drawing on the OT, there are metrical psalms.

--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I wasn't thinking of worldwide Presbyterianism, true.

My experience of that movement has been via the British URC. I haven't had the impression that the URC is particularly fond on OT-focused hymns, but my impression could well be inaccurate.

Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824

 - Posted      Profile for Aravis   Email Aravis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
We used to sing lots of songs about Old Testament characters in Sunday School. But these were basic narratives of the story, not vehicles of teaching or worship.
There may be less hymns relating to the Old Testament as the messages in the stories are often more ambiguous, perhaps?

There's an old hymn about the call of Samuel, "Hushed was the evening hymn" but I haven't heard it for years.
Adam and Eve appear in some traditional carols, e.g. "This is the truth sent from above".
I'll give this a bit more thought - may be back later.

Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

 - Posted      Profile for Lothlorien   Email Lothlorien   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
We used to sing lots of songs about Old Testament characters in Sunday School. But these were basic narratives of the story, not vehicles of teaching or worship.
There may be less hymns relating to the Old Testament as the messages in the stories are often more ambiguous, perhaps?

There's an old hymn about the call of Samuel, "Hushed was the evening hymn" but I haven't heard it for years.
Adam and Eve appear in some traditional carols, e.g. "This is the truth sent from above".
I'll give this a bit more thought - may be back later.

ALong with this about Samuel, we also used to sing "dare to be a Daniel." I found I could still go through most of the words to these two in my mind. I have no idea how long since I sang these, but it was a long time ago.

--------------------
Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Are there so many New Testament hymns of this sort, then? Because I can't think of many here, either. I think that hymns dealing with specific people are just not a focus for the musical traditions I know best (well, bar Jesus, of course).

We do have the plain narrative type of song ("Zacchaeus was a wee little man..."), but then we have those for the OT also ("The Lord said to Noah" and etc.) And we have the Scriptural paraphrases ("Isaiah, mighty seer, in spirit soared...") But our hymns are almost wholly focused on either the Lord himself or on some particular concept ("Amazing grace" and etc.) We just don't do people-centered stuff. Even "For all the saints" is focused on a concept, that of the Church Universal.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

 - Posted      Profile for Og, King of Bashan     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
Perhaps somebody needs to write something along the lines of 'By all the saints in warfare...' - i.e. 'general' verses to start and end, with a choice of middle verses relating to individual OT personalities? It has been years since I wrote a hymn and I'm considerably out of practice, but maybe it needs to be yet another retirement project.

Retirement project or circus game. The sillier the rhymes the better, in my book.

--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

 - Posted      Profile for Amanda B. Reckondwythe     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
But our hymns are almost wholly focused on either the Lord himself or on some particular concept. . . . We just don't do people-centered stuff.

With the exception, of course, of the Blessed Mother.

--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

 - Posted      Profile for Amanda B. Reckondwythe     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
Perhaps somebody needs to write something along the lines of 'By all the saints in warfare...'

Retirement project or circus game. The sillier the rhymes the better, in my book.
I feel a Circus thread coming on!

--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Right there are plenty of hymns with Old Testament references according to Cyberhymnal; here are those for Genesis


For the precise passage Rejoice and Sing has a second option,
To Abraham and Sarah
The call of God was clear
.
I found it by getting out my Music copy of Rejoice and Sing and looked in the Scripture index. You will find a scripture index in most Reformed hymn books and many others as well.

I think it goes back to singing psalms and Biblical canticles. We want a scriptural backing for hymns if possible.

Jengie

p.s. If someone is desperate for a different selection of hymns with a scriptural index then Canterbury Press have a sale on of Church Hymnary 4 at present. I have no connection with Canterbury Press.

[ 07. August 2016, 16:45: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have so little connection that I forgot the important detail, you need to get it under "Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise" rather than as CH4.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have so little connection with Canterbury Press I had not checked the offer. I missed an important detail, you need to get it under "Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise" rather than as CH4. It is the same book but a different cover.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

 - Posted      Profile for Nick Tamen     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Right there are plenty of hymns with Old Testament references according to Cyberhymnal; here are those for Genesis.

Yes, there are lots of hymns with OT references and allusions. But that's not what the OP asked about; the OP asked about "hymns celebrating Old Testament figures and their ministries."

--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
But our hymns are almost wholly focused on either the Lord himself or on some particular concept. . . . We just don't do people-centered stuff.

With the exception, of course, of the Blessed Mother.
It's why I said "our." We're Lutheran.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There's a Hillsong one about 'These are the days of Elijah'. It also mention Moses, Ezekiel and David, and there's an additional verse sung locally about Hosea.

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824

 - Posted      Profile for Aravis   Email Aravis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
These are some of the songs I remember from Sunday School, or occasionally from church. We would have been singing these in the 1970s:

- Mr Noah built an ark
- The Lord told Noah to build him an arky arky
- Father Abraham had many sons
- As Jacob with travel was weary one day
- How did Moses cross the Red Sea
- The Ravens' wings went flap, flap, flap (Elijah)
- Only a boy called David
- When the spirit of the Lord is within my heart I will dance as David danced
- Dare to be a Daniel
- Daniel was a man of prayer

That's all I can think of at the moment. We also learnt most of the Joseph songs in school.
I still remember bits of a poem about Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac which I had to recite on stage (solo) at a very, very young age. We were taught Bible stories very thoroughly, even quite obscure ones.

Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
A major trouble with some of those songs, though, is that they aren't suitable for an all age congregation to sing. There is a difference between childlike faith and childish faith. Asking an adult congregation as part of its regular Sunday worship to sing,
- The Lord told Noah to build him an army army
or
- The Ravens' wings went flap, flap, flap (Elijah)
is encouraging the latter, not the former.

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
You will find a scripture index in most Reformed hymn books and many others as well.

I think it goes back to singing psalms and Biblical canticles. We want a scriptural backing for hymns if possible.

There's certainly a Scriptural index in "Baptist Praise and Worship" and "Songs of Fellowship" but not "Mission Praise". Such indices are of varying quality and utility.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

 - Posted      Profile for Lothlorien   Email Lothlorien   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
There's a Hillsong one about 'These are the days of Elijah'. It also mention Moses, Ezekiel and David, and there's an additional verse sung locally about Hosea.

That is by Robin Mark, not Hillsong. Performance Here.

--------------------
Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294

 - Posted      Profile for georgiaboy   Email georgiaboy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There's a marvelous carol in IIRC the University Carol Book, titled 'Carol of the Exodus.'
Contains these fascinating lines:

'Moses sing unto Christ thy King
Who has won the victory ...
As here we stand with harp in hand
By the shores of the red, red sea.'

I may not be quoting exactly. I would love to incorporate it into the Easter Vigil!

--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.

Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
gog
Shipmate
# 15615

 - Posted      Profile for gog   Author's homepage   Email gog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There is Moses I know you are the man with a copy of the words behind the link
Posts: 103 | From: somewhere over the border | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Baker
Shipmate
# 18458

 - Posted      Profile for Baker   Email Baker   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm Episcopal now, but I'm showing my Lutheran roots when I offer this next one up. I've never sung it outside of a Lutheran church. We didn't sing it often but I remember it well because the tune, while odd, was better than the stodgy stuff we often got.

It's about Isaiah, and there's two wordings, one the original and another with updated wording.

"Isaiah, Mighty Seer in Days of Old"

http://ingeb.org/spiritua/isaiahmi.html

--------------------
Ad astra per aspera

Posts: 108 | From: Tottering-on-the-Brink | Registered: Aug 2015  |  IP: Logged
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638

 - Posted      Profile for The Scrumpmeister   Author's homepage   Email The Scrumpmeister   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Byzantine Rite has a great many hymns to saints of the Old Testament, which can be easily sung to the appointed tones. However, if you're looking for metrical hymns, there are fewer of those.

"Holy Anna, Judah's glory" (to Daily, daily) comes to mind as a bridge between testaments.

[ 12. August 2016, 06:12: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]

--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669

 - Posted      Profile for venbede   Email venbede   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Bright the vision that delighted
Once the sight of Judah's seer.

Judah's seer is Isaiah. At school I took it to be "Once the sight of Judah's sneer" as a reference to Christ's mocking.

--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.

Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged
Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802

 - Posted      Profile for Gwalchmai         Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
When I was at school we used to sing "The Daniel Jazz" - not a hymn as such, bit a good rousing piece to sing.
Posts: 133 | From: England | Registered: Aug 2013  |  IP: Logged
Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379

 - Posted      Profile for Belle Ringer   Email Belle Ringer   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
These are some of the songs I remember from Sunday School, or occasionally from church....

I handed music director a song I wrote about God being just in time even though he seems late, citing OT firey furnace rescue, NT Lazarus dead before Jesus got there, and a 60 year old "you" facing problems today (one verse each example). Music director took a quick look and said "oh a kiddie song." Not, but apparently to some minds reference to a Bible story means it is only for kids.

Which suggests there are songs, just not being used in adult environments.

Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged


 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools