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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Church coffee & hospitality
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
This exactly. You cannot draw the inference you are drawing without having some kind of psychic insight into people's minds, which you do not have.
No, I'm not. If I'm doing anything, I'm inferring a setup rather like my local such conversion
Why would you infer that when there was nothing to suggest that in the original post?
It was a leap of the mind, triggered by the mention of a church plant from a previous Anglo-Catholic tradition. That's more or less what happened in my local case, so I made the connection. May have been wrong. I didn't notice what I was doing at the time.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Please come around to my flat and try to persuade my family that they're not paying proper attention to a film they're watching because they're doing the same.
This is something of a tangent to the coffee-and-sofas discussion, but I'd take issue with your comparison here. The liturgy isn't a spectacle that you're supposed to be watching and paying proper attention to - it's an action in which you are supposed to be taking part.
Paying attention to a film and participating in the liturgy might look fairly similar to an onlooker, though.
As far as the coffee goes, the idea of taking a coffee in to church (or any kind of meeting) tends to sit wrong with me. I think it must be some kind of unconscious cultural norm - perhaps it's that it's rude to eat or drink without sharing with those you're with, and if you just came to church from Starbucks, you probably didn't bring enough for everyone.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Many years ago there was a church in which some people put £5 or £10 notes into the coffee donation bowl. It turned out that they were using "coffee money" as a sort of "black economy." The Church of Scotland levied a contribution to Mission and Aid from the congregation's main collection, but the congregation could keep 100% of the "coffee fund." Hence some people were dropping the bulk of their offering into the "coffee donations." This church had amassed a four-figure "coffee fund" from money dropped into the basket at coffee time.
This ended very quickly when the church minister retired, and the new minister was appalled to find out what had been happening.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
In the US, probably because of the ubiquity of Starbucks, places have been gradually allowing you to carry in covered cups. The public library now allows this -- ten years ago they did not. I have certainly seen covered cups in the church pews. We will know it is bad when the pew racks start sprouting cup holders.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Interesting too that many theatres now let you take your interval drinks into the auditorium (if they're in plastic "glasses").
Presumably this is an urban thing though - it couldn't happen in a small village.
And where does one draw a line: if coffee or smoothies are acceptable, what about fast food?
[ 12. September 2016, 15:20: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
The liturgy isn't a spectacle that you're supposed to be watching and paying proper attention to - it's an action in which you are supposed to be taking part.
Absolutely agree on liturgy being participatory.
But, how does bring a coffee into the service prevent you from participating fully in the liturgy?
quote:
the idea of taking a coffee in to church (or any kind of meeting) tends to sit wrong with me. I think it must be some kind of unconscious cultural norm
It's almost certainly (IMO and IME) cultural. I am very used to attending conferences where people arrive in the morning with a coffee from Starbucks, or later in the day one from the coffee break, and take it into the meeting - usually past the signs saying "no food or drink in the lecture theatre". Or, for a business meeting to have tea and coffee, and biscuits, available on a help-yourself basis.
And, if you really want to move cultures, look up inemuri which is entirely acceptable in Japan. I don't think anywhere outside Japan would consider that you're present and participating in a meeting if you were taking a wee nap.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
[QUOTE] ... As far as the coffee goes, the idea of taking a coffee in to church (or any kind of meeting) tends to sit wrong with me. I think it must be some kind of unconscious cultural norm - perhaps it's that it's rude to eat or drink without sharing with those you're with, and if you just came to church from Starbucks, you probably didn't bring enough for everyone.
This may be a cross-cultural difference, but it's not at all unusual here for tea, coffee, biscuits (US cookies I think) etc to be served during meetings, particularly long ones, or just before, to be consumed after the meeting starts, or for tea, coffee, water, cold drinks, biscuits etc to be available for people to help themselves to during a meeting.
This is so for business meetings in both secular or church contexts. Also, coffee, biscuits etc etc are normally served and consumed in home groups, bible studies etc.
So people can take their interval drinks back into the theatre for the next act, theatres often use plastic glasses, cups etc.
So the only issue here would be whether there is something irreverent about consuming food and drink in the formality of an actual service.
[ 12. September 2016, 16:09: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be a cross-cultural difference, but it's not at all unusual here for tea, coffee, biscuits (US cookies I think) etc to be served during meetings, particularly long ones, or just before, to be consumed after the meeting starts, or for tea, coffee, water, cold drinks, biscuits etc to be available for people to help themselves to during a meeting.
I heard of an interesting case where someone had memorised the entirety of Mark's gospel and was giving a recitation in church. There was an intermission, and it was commented on that there seemed to be something of a disconnect about following up the transfiguration with a choc ice.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There is also the age thing. No one would complain if the parents brought in a bottle to feed Junior during a long service -- far better than a sermon broken up by howling. Cheerios, animal crackers -- the standard armamentarium of toddler management. Older children can be distracted/bribed with peppermints.
And there is the health issue too. Diabetics often travel with snacks; if they start to feel weird a dried apricot or so fixes them right up. There are plenty of health conditions that call for ready availability of water, etc.
So the whole thing is full of exceptions anyway.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is also the age thing. No one would complain if the parents brought in a bottle to feed Junior during a long service ...Older children can be distracted/bribed with peppermints... Diabetics often travel with snacks
In my youth one did not eat and drink except at meals or designated snack times like mid afternoon. All food was consumed in the eating spaces, not taken throughout the house or store or church or museum to nibble at and drop crumbs from wherever (for someone else to clean up).
Yes exceptions for babies to "eat" but kiddies were suppose to learn patience and diabetes be discrete.
Society is far more informal now. And the snack food industry has worked hard to convince us we need food or drink in hand at all times. A BBC documentary in 2012 that I watched more recently on YouTube details the efforts to get us to believe we must constantly snack.
So today we have expectations of snacks at every meeting and assume we will bring and nibble at snacks inside the hall marked "no food or drink."
I don't think its a theological issue as much as a cleaning issue. My local church meets in the casual halls for the contemporary service, and has to clean up abundance of discarded (and spilled) cups and snack wrappers. The formal service in the formal hall, if anyone brings snacks or eats it's discretely and without leaving trash. I guess a more formal environment non-verbally conveys different behavioral rules?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be a cross-cultural difference, but it's not at all unusual here for tea, coffee, biscuits (US cookies I think) etc to be served during meetings, particularly long ones, or just before, to be consumed after the meeting starts, or for tea, coffee, water, cold drinks, biscuits etc to be available for people to help themselves to during a meeting.
That's not quite the same. Having refreshments available for everyone is one thing; having someone show up with his own private supplies and consume them in front of others is another. This is the distinction that I draw.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
[QUOTE] ... As far as the coffee goes, the idea of taking a coffee in to church (or any kind of meeting) tends to sit wrong with me. I think it must be some kind of unconscious cultural norm - perhaps it's that it's rude to eat or drink without sharing with those you're with, and if you just came to church from Starbucks, you probably didn't bring enough for everyone.
This may be a cross-cultural difference, but it's not at all unusual here for tea, coffee, biscuits (US cookies I think) etc to be served during meetings, particularly long ones, or just before, to be consumed after the meeting starts, or for tea, coffee, water, cold drinks, biscuits etc to be available for people to help themselves to during a meeting.
This is so for business meetings in both secular or church contexts....
And indeed in some contexts a 'meeting without coffee' is actually a euphemism for a bollocking.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
If it was a Mass, then I agree with you. If it was a Service of the Word aimed at enquirers, then not so much.
It was an ordination, I am reliably informed. Hence, a mass plus.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
The implication of relaxing on sofas, as others have implied, is that 'worship' is a spectacle/entertainment/or even boring lecture, but not an activity in which all participate. The contrast between a procession of robed clergy and a 'congregation' of passive spectators deepens the lay-clergy divide unacceptably. As does an unrobed 'worship leader' up front performing to a static congregation.
Of course most liturgy tends to contrast the 'active' participants with the majority of the congregation. But at least traditionally the latter will change posture from time to time (even if only standing to sing) and have some vocal input. And the presence of robed servers etc 'up front' stops it from being a clerical preserve.
However I have to say I don't know the church in question (though my informant was reliable) and the reality of the situation might not have been quite as it appears.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
If someone were to bring a cup of coffee into Mass at my parish, my chief concern would be that they were flagrantly ignoring the Eucharistic fast. The (much) lesser issue would be that it seems to communicate a certain disrespect for the proceedings, but I'm open to being convinced that I need to get over that.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
To my mind, there is a fundamental difference between the Roman Catholic and Anglican approaches to a central issue here. It is far closer to reality in many parts of Anglicanism that the eucharist is offered by the assembly, rather than by the priest acting alone. By comparison, my experience of Roman Catholic masses is that the idea of hearing mass is still alive and well, and attempts to shift it have been resisted.
The incident Angloid describes underlines, to my mind, one of the great problems with a more individualist approach to worship, in that it prevents the congregation from effectively gathering. If a congregation cannot effectively gather, it cannot become a community because it won't be observing its own rites, and as far as I know it remains the case that all functioning communities have rites which are the concern of the whole community, not just a few.
This is an important consideration with church plants because they start off being offshoots of other congregations, but if they are to survive must become self-sustaining. Therefore, they need to acquire the characteristics of viable communities, one of which is the recognition of its own rites. Without that, it can't go through its own life cycle and therefore cannot flourish independently.
I'm not saying that all of those rites must bear a resemblance to the traditional sacraments, but this is one of the functions they fulfil, and as I understand it at least, it's a function fulfilled in all communities which achieve any kind of longevity. At very least, there is a requirement for the rites to be recognised, and to be the focus of the community, since they are one of the means by which its cohesion is established and maintained.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The implication of relaxing on sofas, as others have implied, is that 'worship' is a spectacle/entertainment/or even boring lecture, but not an activity in which all participate. The contrast between a procession of robed clergy and a 'congregation' of passive spectators deepens the lay-clergy divide unacceptably. As does an unrobed 'worship leader' up front performing to a static congregation.
Some say the opposite: that pews create the 'spectator' mode, and that having a robed leader emphasises divisions. It's all a matter of perspective.
But what surprised me in your earlier description was that an ordination was occurring at a 'church plant'. Is this normal in the CofE?
I'm surprised simply because ordinations in mainstream denominations are often conceived as formal, traditional events, whereas church plants are usually conceived not to be formal and traditional. So a culture clash was always going to happen if no one had given this any thought in advance.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
The incident Angloid describes underlines, to my mind, one of the great problems with a more individualist approach to worship, in that it prevents the congregation from effectively gathering. If a congregation cannot effectively gather, it cannot become a community because it won't be observing its own rites, and as far as I know it remains the case that all functioning communities have rites which are the concern of the whole community, not just a few.
I am currently pregnant. As such, I have been sitting on the cry-room couch, sipping water, and nipping out at the start of the sermon to buy Maccas next door - which I bring back, so that I can eat it while listening to the rest of the sermon.
My options are:
a) do this
b) stay home
Which do you think gives me the better chance of "gathering" with the rest of the congregation?
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
In this particular neck of the woods post service coffee is free and real (not instant).
I have an inbuilt horror of charging for anything in church.
At last week's (adult)baptism there was a shared meal to follow. Numbers meant that people spilled throughout the building including the church sanctuary, to eat.
Every couple of months we begin with breakfast (free) before the morning service. Mrs M is usually to be found inviting passers by in or taking pastries to local shops. Couple of months ago a Sikh family had their business broken into: they were clearing up on a breakfast Sunday. We took food down to them, asked if we help and pray for them - they were thrilled.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The implication of relaxing on sofas, as others have implied, is that 'worship' is a spectacle/entertainment/or even boring lecture, but not an activity in which all participate. The contrast between a procession of robed clergy and a 'congregation' of passive spectators deepens the lay-clergy divide unacceptably. As does an unrobed 'worship leader' up front performing to a static congregation.
Oh yes, I agree with both parts of this. But I think that's totally independent of the seating and the consumption of coffee.
quote:
Of course most liturgy tends to contrast the 'active' participants with the majority of the congregation. But at least traditionally the latter will change posture from time to time (even if only standing to sing) and have some vocal input. And the presence of robed servers etc 'up front' stops it from being a clerical preserve.
Also a lot of people obviously feel engaged with a service like Evensong even when the choir is doing most of the singing and the clergy are doing most of the liturgy. Again, I don't see that drinking coffee makes any impact on the attention and engagement with that type of service, and clearly there are a lot of other types of service which are nothing like that extreme of interaction.
quote:
However I have to say I don't know the church in question (though my informant was reliable) and the reality of the situation might not have been quite as it appears.
Last week I attended a church where the seating was not only sofas, but the person next to me was playing on his phone the whole time and people seemed to wander in and out of the kitchen with drinks.
Personally, I'd rather be in Evensong. But.. well, I would hesitate to say that they were doing anything wrong and the person playing with the phone seemed to be remarkably engaged with what was going on.
My conclusion is that there are many different ways of doing things and many different kinds of people and some things that look absurd to one are perfectly normal and helpful to another.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The contrast between a procession of robed clergy and a 'congregation' of passive spectators deepens the lay-clergy divide unacceptably. As does an unrobed 'worship leader' up front performing to a static congregation.
If a worship leader is "performing" (and I know that some do), then they've got it wrong. They are supposed to engage with the congregation and - er - lead them in their worship. Possibly this is more of a problem in larger churches (especially those with a "theatre" layout) than smaller ones?
[ 13. September 2016, 07:44: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
engagement with that type of service, and Last week I attended a church where the seating was not only sofas, but the person next to me was playing on his phone the whole time and people seemed to wander in and out of the kitchen with drinks.
Personally, I'd rather be in Evensong. But.. well, I would hesitate to say that they were doing anything wrong and the person playing with the phone seemed to be remarkably engaged with what was going on.
That's extremely good-hearted of you, and you're right. But that would have driven me crazy with irritation, I'd have wanted to say, "For goodness' sake, can't you just sit still for five minutes"!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
That's extremely good-hearted of you, and you're right. But that would have driven me crazy with irritation, I'd have wanted to say, "For goodness' sake, can't you just sit still for five minutes"!
I long ago determined that wanting to say something to someone else about their behaviour in church is a road that only leads to one destination: turning into my mother. And nobody wants that.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I didn't say that I would have said anything. My wife and I would just have moaned and ranted about said person's behaviour, on our way home! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Mind you, both of us have said things in theatres and concerts to phone-users and chatterers who somehow seem to forget that they are not inaudible and invisible to people around them!
[ 13. September 2016, 08:03: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
To what extent are these valid criticisms, and to what extent are they 'there are two ways of doing this, our way and the wrong way'.
I don't know whether any other Shipmates have access to the Church Times, but the correspondence section - and some of the articles and a section where people can ask questions about liturgy and practice - seem sometimes to be driven by versions of 'I disapprove therefore I am'.
[ 13. September 2016, 08:04: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
You're right - but could we have that in Latin, please?
[ 13. September 2016, 08:04: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
If a worship leader is "performing" (and I know that some do), then they've got it wrong. They are supposed to engage with the congregation and - er - lead them in their worship. Possibly this is more of a problem in larger churches (especially those with a "theatre" layout) than smaller ones?
This is where evangelicals and anglo-catholics have very similar problems, albeit just with different types of music. I've attended services of both where there's no involvement necessary from the congregation and one gets the impression that the service would carry on unchanged if no one actually turned up. Any such service is something I struggle with as one comes not only to be fed (spiritually) but to contribute to the life of the church, which is rather difficult if your only role is to sit still and be quiet. Even more so if you're instructed to leave in silence.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
You're right - but could we have that in Latin, please?
How about Improbo ergo sum? Or possibly rideo ergo sum? But I don't have much Latin these days.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I didn't say that I would have said anything. My wife and I would just have moaned and ranted about said person's behaviour, on our way home!
For sure, we rant and moan and laugh about other people's behaviour after church. Never to their face.
My mother has no shame and comes right out with it.
quote:
Mind you, both of us have said things in theatres and concerts to phone-users and chatterers who somehow seem to forget that they are not inaudible and invisible to people around them!
Yes, somehow a cinema is a different thing. I've no qualms about telling people to shut up or stop playing with their phone in a cinema. I wonder why that is..
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
How about Improbo ergo sum? Or possibly rideo ergo sum? But I don't have much Latin these days.
Discordo ergo sum has a certain ring to it but probably isn't correct.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
I've attended services of both where there's no involvement necessary from the congregation and one gets the impression that the service would carry on unchanged if no one actually turned up. Any such service is something I struggle with as one comes not only to be fed (spiritually) but to contribute to the life of the church, which is rather difficult if your only role is to sit still and be quiet.
Of course, the philosophy behind the "Seeker Service" approach is that it's a "presentation" - i.e. it doesn't want to ask people who may not have yet come to faith to sing hymns and assent to prayers which they may not understand or believe.
I don't have a problem with that; but it shouldn't be a model for corporate worship, nor was it ever intended to be AFAIK.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
One man fussed that some hostesses bring too much food, some weeks you can make a generous breakfast out of it, but others said what's the harm if that's what someone wants to bring? His concern was two-fold, that the purpose of "coffee" was to mingle and chat, not sit down and eat.
Oh that more would sit down, even if it is only to sit and sip coffee whilst chatting. I find mingling oppressive, As do many AS* people. I'll happily sit and chat. Mingling excludes some people.
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*AS = Asperger's Syndrome or Autism Spectrum, both are accurate
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The philosophy behind the "Seeker Service" approach is that it's a "presentation" - i.e. it doesn't want to ask people who may not have yet come to faith to sing hymns and assent to prayers which they may not understand or believe.
I've never heard the term used before. That wouldn't be so bad.
This was the kind of thing I had in mind: 2.5 hours of elaborately rolled Rs as Lamentations was sung indecipherably. Had it been marked as a concert, it might have been nice, but as a church service, I wouldn't be keen on going back.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Barnabas Aus
Shipmate
# 15869
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Posted
My wife is diet-controlled hypoglycaemic and also has a condition which dries out her mouth and throat. Hence, as she sits at the organ in front of our small congregation there is a travel mug of honey-sweetened lemon tea handy so she can either maintain her blood glucose or prevent an embarrassing coughing fit. Without this simple remedy there would be some mornings when it would be difficult for her to participate in worship let alone accompany the singing.
Posts: 375 | From: Hunter Valley NSW | Registered: Sep 2010
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The philosophy behind the "Seeker Service" approach is that it's a "presentation" - i.e. it doesn't want to ask people who may not have yet come to faith to sing hymns and assent to prayers which they may not understand or believe.
I've never heard the term used before. That wouldn't be so bad.
This was the kind of thing I had in mind: 2.5 hours of elaborately rolled Rs as Lamentations was sung indecipherably. Had it been marked as a concert, it might have been nice, but as a church service, I wouldn't be keen on going back.
Oh I dunno ... I'm an insomniac these days, and it might just work
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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
One man fussed that some hostesses bring too much food, some weeks you can make a generous breakfast out of it, but others said what's the harm if that's what someone wants to bring? His concern was two-fold, that the purpose of "coffee" was to mingle and chat, not sit down and eat.
Oh that more would sit down, even if it is only to sit and sip coffee whilst chatting. I find mingling oppressive, As do many AS* people. I'll happily sit and chat. Mingling excludes some people.
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*AS = Asperger's Syndrome or Autism Spectrum, both are accurate
Add in wearing powerul hearing aids which relay to me several conversations from around me. Some of these would have been better conducted in private or at least well away from the general throng. All intruded on the conversation I was trying to have but already found difficult.
For many years I was in charge of the roster for bringing food for the time. I was happy if people remembered even if it was a couple of family packs of biscuits. However one woman always brought a massive spread of homemade delicacies. Others were discouraged. Eventually , as people stopped bringing anything, I became unwilling to be up early on Sunday morning after I had remembered to check the roster, often late on Saturday evening. Depending on reliability of person rostered I would be up early making scones and dozens of mini muffins. We reverted to bulk buying of biscuits and wiping home made goodies entirely.
[ 15. September 2016, 12:29: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
I tend to feel that coffee hospitality should not come with strings. If someone from the street shows up, it may be that they are hungry for something more than coffee and sweet rolls. It may be a perfect opportunity to enact Matt:25 values.
The "something in return" might be a sense of real fellowship with the neighbors.
(Poking nose in)
As someone who ran the coffee hour program in a church in an "urban war zone" ... I really couldn't agree with you more on this.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
One man fussed that some hostesses bring too much food, some weeks you can make a generous breakfast out of it, but others said what's the harm if that's what someone wants to bring? His concern was two-fold, that the purpose of "coffee" was to mingle and chat, not sit down and eat.
Oh that more would sit down, even if it is only to sit and sip coffee whilst chatting. I find mingling oppressive, As do many AS* people. I'll happily sit and chat. Mingling excludes some people.
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*AS = Asperger's Syndrome or Autism Spectrum, both are accurate
So make room for people to mingle or sit down, as they wish. I think all the churches I've ever attended have done this as a matter of course, without even thinking about it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
I have to say, having been with the same group of people before and after they had a gathering space that was large enough to contain some chairs and tables for "sit down/sit down and chat" as well as the food and coffee ... it made a large difference for a lot of people.
Those who were a bit wobbly on their feet or just felt like sitting down with their drinks and goodies could. People could sit by themselves or chat with others.
People who wanted to stand up and/or mingle did. Best of all worlds, really.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Ascension-ite
Shipmate
# 1985
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Posted
Because of this thread I've been noticing what my parish does, and we have coffee out pretty much all the time, I went to Morning Prayer/Eucharist on Tues., and the urns for coffee were out, before 8am, along with bagels for after the service. On Sunday there's coffee and receptions after the morning services, sweets and savories, and then a community supper in the evening after the Celtic service, and before Compline. It's all always free, and it helps the parish feel like a real community. It's impressive what we do, and I'm grateful for those who work to provide it.
Posts: 318 | From: Old Dominion | Registered: Dec 2001
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
For about six months I lived in a Yorkshire village where the main service was 9am, I think - might have been 8.30 - and was followed by strong tea and as much bread and jam as you could eat.
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ascension-ite:
Because of this thread I've been noticing what my parish does, and we have coffee out pretty much all the time, I went to Morning Prayer/Eucharist on Tues., and the urns for coffee were out, before 8am, along with bagels for after the service. On Sunday there's coffee and receptions after the morning services, sweets and savories, and then a community supper in the evening after the Celtic service, and before Compline. It's all always free, and it helps the parish feel like a real community. It's impressive what we do, and I'm grateful for those who work to provide it.
I hadn't thought about weekday services during this discussion. We have three services during the week (Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday mornings), and coffee is served after all of them. Wednesday includes home-made cake. Tuesday and Thursday used to have breakfast, but times have changed, and we've lost the people who used to provide that. Sundays we usually have quite lavish spreads (different people sign up to do that) after both services. Saturday evening is the only refreshment-less service of the week.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Just wondering ... I don't know where everyone is posting from, but it strikes me that, in general, the British churches seem to be offering coffee + cake/biscuits after church and that's about it; while those in North America/Southern Hemisphere seem to offer a great deal more (and more frequently).
Or is that a crass over-generalisation?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
We always have coffee (with cream/sugar), tea and lemonade on offer after Sunday services. Not infrequently the youth group is selling doughnuts, to support some project or another. And at least once a season there is a meal after the later service, kicking off something or another -- summer theater classes, Alpha, a missionary's visit, etc. But as a regular thing there is only beverages on offer, no food.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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