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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Jeremy Corbyn out?
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
If Corbyn were the decent and honourable man referred to at the beginning of this thread, he'd now do whatever is necessary to call a new election for leader of the PLP.
Your assumption of what is morally correct here is based on the result you would prefer.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
If the trustees of a charity appoint a managing director and soon afterwards three quarters of employees can't work with him/her, should that managing director step down?
If the PCC appoints a new choirmaster who within a year has quarrelled with three quarters of the choir, should that choirmaster stand down?
If a new manager was appointed to your team and three quarters of your team couldn't work with them, whose problem would that be?
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
If the trustees of a charity appoint a managing director and soon afterwards three quarters of employees can't work with him/her, should that managing director step down?
If the PCC appoints a new choirmaster who within a year has quarrelled with three quarters of the choir, should that choirmaster stand down?
If a new manager was appointed to your team and three quarters of your team couldn't work with them, whose problem would that be?
Well, if the charity supporters still had enormous support for the stated aim of the leader....
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
If the trustees of a charity appoint a managing director and soon afterwards three quarters of employees can't work with him/her, should that managing director step down?
If the PCC appoints a new choirmaster who within a year has quarrelled with three quarters of the choir, should that choirmaster stand down?
If a new manager was appointed to your team and three quarters of your team couldn't work with them, whose problem would that be?
Well, if the charity supporters still had enormous support for the stated aim of the leader....
In this instance the charity is out of touch with the British people, losing donations at an alarming rate, and facing an existential crisis.
Jeremy Corbyn, the Camila Batmanghelidjh of British politics.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
Perhaps some of them will end up forming a new charity....
Ed Milliband has joined in, appearing on TV to tell Corbyn to go. Even Cameron managed to tell him that during one of the strangest PMQs for ages this lunchtime.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Momentum have had to cancel a rally in favour of Jeremy due to "overwhelming demand", apparently. In unrelated news, their annual party at Harvey's brewery has had to be cancelled due to insufficient beer.
Meanwhile, in the best tradition of Roger Bacon, a bust of Lenin has denounced Jeremy Corbyn before exploding into fragments. Momentum activists take to Twitter to denounce Lenin as a Red Tory.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
Ouch - MP Pat Glass, who was only appointed as shadow education secretary on Monday, has now resigned from that position as well.
However, she had apparently been advised by the police to avoid public places after a referendum backlash, so perhaps it's understandable in her case.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
He doesn't have my PERMISSION to go.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Labour's MEPs have come out against him. So he won't get the nominations if there's a challenge. So it goes to the NEC...
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Such sadness in all of this. I'm as much grieved by what is happening to the Labour Party (my lifelong political home) as I was by the referendum result.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
If the trustees of a charity appoint a managing director ....
Which is totally not this situation.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Sometimes the best person to do a job is the one who didn't want it, doesn't like it, wouldn't choose it. And the very worst is the one who thinks he was born to do it.
I beg to disagree. When it comes to being the leader of the nation, who may have to make decisions that would likely reduce most of us to quivering, jelly-like blobs of terrified irresolution, you probably want someone in the post whose ego can stand up to this extreme pressure. I don't want to be PM or leader of the opposition. I don't for a moment believe that this qualifies me in any way for those positions.
I have visions of Jeremy Corbyn as PM, having a tough call to make, going all quiet and shifty-eyed, as he apparently does when asked anything resembling an awkward question. I see no evidence that this is the outworking of one of the great intellects of our time weighing the ramifications before he answers.
Cameron is putting country before party in urging Corbyn to go.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
I don't know what the relationship between Corbyn and his deputy Tom Watson was like before, but I imagine it's pretty hosed now. Watson has apparently been trying to negotiate with Corbyn for Corbyn to go but hasn't got anywhere.
Watson has apologised to the nation.
The Conservatives must be utterly unable to believe their luck. What an utter, utter, utter shambles.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Such sadness in all of this. I'm as much grieved by what is happening to the Labour Party (my lifelong political home) as I was by the referendum result.
Yes, I feel sad. Also angry at the MPs for producing such chaos, just as the Tories are in the shit. Why have they done it?
Various theories that the impending Chilcott report has their panties fraying; also maybe an impending election might see them not reselected.
Of course, the left/right split is here. Many MPs probably didn't accept that members should choose the leader.
I think also a long spin-off from Blair, who parachuted aparatchiks into some seats, and they tend to be right-wing or 'moderates' as they say, and will never accept a left-wing leader.
If Labour goes back to New Labour, over and out. My local Greens are more left-wing than that.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
If the trustees of a charity appoint a managing director ....
Which is totally not this situation.
OK. In what other circumstance could someone be appointed to work with a bunch of people, and prove unable to work with them, without their appointment being regarded as a mistake?
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Another point - everybody knew a plot was coming down the line, but why now? I think the right wing were anticipating that by-elections or local elections would trip Corbyn up, but that didn't happen, so the referendum gave them their chance. Apparently, the vote of members, who selected him, is meaningless now. They will probably elect a leader such as Eagle, and change the rules, so that members don't select the leader. Brave new world.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
If the trustees of a charity appoint a managing director ....
Which is totally not this situation.
OK. In what other circumstance could someone be appointed to work with a bunch of people, and prove unable to work with them, without their appointment being regarded as a mistake?
If I take your examples I'd go for the choir director. The Annual Meeting and the PCC have a vision for where the church music ought to go, and have put in a choir director in tune (sorry) with that vision, but the choir don't like it. They had actually put him/her up as as sop to that POV about the church's music, but believed the person to be unappointable, and were expecting one of the more acceptable (to them) candidates to be appointed. To their shock, however, the PCC following consultation with the Annual Meeting have now appointed that person.
For some time the choir members have lost their music, failed to turn up for rehearsals, and pointed out how their performance is due to the choir director's ineptitude. Now the minister is moving on and the church is split about a possible new appointment, and some believe the proposed new minister will be a disaster. The choir are now resigning because they claim the director of music should have been more effective in persuading the church membership of the merits of the choir's preferred candidate.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Scroll to 18.26 to hear Tom Watson.
He's heartbroken, reckons the party faces an "existential crisis". I share his feelings, think he is right.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Angela Eagle will challenge Corbyn for the party leadership at 3pm tomorrow.
Meanwhile, Corbyn is addressing a rally at the SOAS JCR. Seriously.
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Interestingly, a newsnight poll has found most of the constituency parties who originally backed him still back Corbyn, including Angela Eagle's.
They have made a total pigs ear of this.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
I have visions of Jeremy Corbyn as PM, having a tough call to make, going all quiet and shifty-eyed, as he apparently does when asked anything resembling an awkward question. I see no evidence that this is the outworking of one of the great intellects of our time weighing the ramifications before he answers.
It seems to me that, despite the supposed benefits of a middle class upbringing and a public school education, Mr Corbyn isn't actually that bright.
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
The Conservatives must be utterly unable to believe their luck. What an utter, utter, utter shambles.
Thinking back to what the Tories got up to in 2002-3, I used to sympathise with my Labour friends, saying 'don't worry, we've all been there'. I can't do that any more. The Labour Party has taken this to a whole new level.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
The longer Corbyn hangs on the more impressive he looks. He understands what his Westminster conditioned MPs do not. Namely that last week's shock result was largely a People's Revolt. A revolution that is seeking a genuine leader of people.
Cameron coming out with his 'For Heaven's sake go!' is pretty bloomin rich coming from someone who'll only ever be remembered for himself going , having called and lost a woeful and contentious referendum that has succeeded in dividing the Country.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Doublethink
They "they" who "have made a right pig's ear of this" include Jeremy Corbyn himself. He's lost the support of 80% of the elected MPs who represent his party in the House of Commons. They aren't mandated delegates. It is part of his responsibility to prevent this sort of shambles. He is the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in Parliament.
These aren't crocodile tears from Margaret Beckett.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The longer Corbyn hangs on the more impressive he looks.
Who, do you think, he's impressing?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The longer Corbyn hangs on the more impressive he looks. He understands what his Westminster conditioned MPs do not. Namely that last week's shock result was largely a People's Revolt. A revolution that is seeking a genuine leader of people.
Cameron coming out with his 'For Heaven's sake go!' is pretty bloomin rich coming from someone who'll only ever be remembered for himself going , having called and lost a woeful and contentious referendum that has succeeded in dividing the Country.
Hang on in there. Gruppenfuhrer Steiner is definitely going to be hitting the Red Army any time soon. Now we will see how these Communist cowards deal with the might of the Waffen SS.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The longer Corbyn hangs on the more impressive he looks. He understands what his Westminster conditioned MPs do not. Namely that last week's shock result was largely a People's Revolt. A revolution that is seeking a genuine leader of people.
Cameron coming out with his 'For Heaven's sake go!' is pretty bloomin rich coming from someone who'll only ever be remembered for himself going , having called and lost a woeful and contentious referendum that has succeeded in dividing the Country.
Last week's result was not a shock to any of us who spend much time in the sort of areas that voted to leave. The People who Revolted were Revolting about immigration, rightly or wrongly. The idea that Jeremy Corbyn, who doesn't want any controls at all on immigration, is the natural leader of these people is completely risible.
This is why the PLP have finally lost what little patience they had with Corbyn. The main thing he had going for him, supposedly, is that he could connect with Labour's lost tribal core of voters, and he can't even do that. It's got bugger all to do with Chilcott, yes the Iraq war was a clusterfuck but there have been many, many clusterfucks under the bridge since then and no-one cares except a bunch of Stop the War anoraks. The rest of us have more important things to worry about.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Doublethink
They "they" who "have made a right pig's ear of this" include Jeremy Corbyn himself. He's lost the support of 80% of the elected MPs who represent his party in the House of Commons. They aren't mandated delegates. It is part of his responsibility to prevent this sort of shambles. He is the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in Parliament.
These aren't crocodile tears from Margaret Beckett.
Yes, it's upsetting. Have you any idea how angry we are with the plp ? We voted for this man, and the majority of them have spent his entire tenure actively trying to undermine his leadership.
If they genuinely believed he should go, someone should have launched a leadership challenge. The process is not difficult. But instead they have indulged in this shambolic pantomime. How fucking dare they ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Shall we all unite in mild happiness that one result of this mess is that Ken Livingstome has stood down from the Labour National Executive Committee ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Sorry to intrude, but what's the plp? Googling turned up Progressive Labor Party, but it's apparently a communist organization.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
The Parliamentary Labour Party, i.e. Labour Members of Parliament
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Just echoing Doublethink, that the plp are a fucking disgrace. They are shitting on the Labour membership. Why have they waited until now to launch their plot?
So now Eagle is going to win back the council estates and the Leave voters? What a fucking joke.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Doublethink
They "they" who "have made a right pig's ear of this" include Jeremy Corbyn himself. He's lost the support of 80% of the elected MPs who represent his party in the House of Commons. They aren't mandated delegates. It is part of his responsibility to prevent this sort of shambles. He is the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in Parliament.
These aren't crocodile tears from Margaret Beckett.
Yes, it's upsetting. Have you any idea how angry we are with the plp ? We voted for this man, and the majority of them have spent his entire tenure actively trying to undermine his leadership.
If they genuinely believed he should go, someone should have launched a leadership challenge. The process is not difficult. But instead they have indulged in this shambolic pantomime. How fucking dare they ?
Do you not accept that Jeremy Corbyn has any responsibility for the position the Labour Party now finds itself in? Are you really claiming that the entirety of the situation is the making of the 172 MPs who, having tried in different ways, to make the situation work have decided that the whole business is no longer tolerable and that Corbyn is entirely blameless in the matter? It is pretty much one of the basics of leadership 101 that if things go Pete Tong you have to look at yourself rather than looking for excuses to blame your subordinates.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Everybody knows that the plp have been plotting against Corbyn since day one. They never wanted him, they were out to get him, and were hoping that there would be a bad by-election or local election, so they could nail him. It's like the fucking Mafia.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Sorry, parliamentary Labour Party. I.e. The MPs and lords who have seats in parliament, rather than the wider membership of the party.
Essentially, In a one member one transferable vote system the party voted Corbyn leader less than a year ago. He won with a massive margin in all subsections of the party. Nobody had expected that to happen. The party membership doubled. But most of the MPs were very unhappy about it because he's considered very left wing. (Though from a historical perspective he's fairly moderate.). He tried to be concilliatary, include those MPs in his shadow cabinet, and tolerate some public expression of dissent. This was necessary to attempt to unify the parliamentary party, but it hasn't worked.
Though in fact he got slightly more support in the no confidence vote than he did in original parliamentary nomination process. He original only scraped the 35 MPs support he needed to get on the ballot. This time he got 40 + 4 abstentions.
There is evidence that this mass resignation event has been partially organised by Portland Communications which is company with links to the Blairite wing of the party.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Everybody knows that the plp have been plotting against Corbyn since day one. They never wanted him, they were out to get him, and were hoping that there would be a bad by-election or local election, so they could nail him. It's like the fucking Mafia.
So, Corbyn is entirely blameless and everything is the fault of the 172 MPs who have no confidence in him?
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Correct.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
The Blairites are already talking about a split - I bet they have planned this all along. Another fucking SDP, for God's sake, just when the Tories are on the ropes. Unbelievable.
[ 29. June 2016, 20:04: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Everybody knows that the plp have been plotting against Corbyn since day one. They never wanted him, they were out to get him, and were hoping that there would be a bad by-election or local election, so they could nail him. It's like the fucking Mafia.
So, Corbyn is entirely blameless and everything is the fault of the 172 MPs who have no confidence in him?
FFS, I had bosses who were complete nutters, and others who were just bizarre, or completely different from me, but I found a way to work with them. The Blairites are running for their lives, and will even split to get their way.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Doublethink
They "they" who "have made a right pig's ear of this" include Jeremy Corbyn himself. He's lost the support of 80% of the elected MPs who represent his party in the House of Commons. They aren't mandated delegates. It is part of his responsibility to prevent this sort of shambles. He is the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition in Parliament.
These aren't crocodile tears from Margaret Beckett.
Yes, it's upsetting. Have you any idea how angry we are with the plp ? We voted for this man, and the majority of them have spent his entire tenure actively trying to undermine his leadership.
If they genuinely believed he should go, someone should have launched a leadership challenge. The process is not difficult. But instead they have indulged in this shambolic pantomime. How fucking dare they ?
Do you not accept that Jeremy Corbyn has any responsibility for the position the Labour Party now finds itself in? Are you really claiming that the entirety of the situation is the making of the 172 MPs who, having tried in different ways, to make the situation work have decided that the whole business is no longer tolerable and that Corbyn is entirely blameless in the matter? It is pretty much one of the basics of leadership 101 that if things go Pete Tong you have to look at yourself rather than looking for excuses to blame your subordinates.
I blame them for the way they have chosen to go about this.
I imagine there are faults on both sides as regards his working relationship with the plp. But he has achieved a great deal in the ten months he has led the party, in terms of principled opposition to the government. He got a number of key austerity measures voted down, he grew the party, he started various policy generation processes - that were due to report to conference. But all the time time key plp individuals were actively trying to position to remove him - people were even leaking material such as questions for pmqs to the government.
If he had been ruthless, he'd have encouraged the local parties to deselect MPs, picked only the left wingers for his shadow cabinet. But he didn't. Perhaps that was his 'failure of leadership'.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
q, that's not going to happen.
[ 29. June 2016, 20:09: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Do they seriously think that another New Labour is going to win back the Leave voters and the UKIP voters, and the council estates? No way.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
OK, I guess I have to ask. Assume that the 170-odd MPs who voted against Mr Corbyn are backstabbing egomaniacal mafiosi.
I don't know to what extent local parties are able to select the candidate they put up for Parliament, but volunteer activists can choose whether they campaign for those candidates or vote with their feet.
Did those volunteers know that they were campaigning for backstabbing egomaniacal mafiosi at the time, and if so, why did they do it? Or have they only just turned into backstabbing egomaniacal mafiosi, and, if so, what could have brought about such an astonishing plummet into moral degradation?
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Anglican't
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# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Do they seriously think that another New Labour is going to win back the Leave voters and the UKIP voters, and the council estates? No way.
Well, without Tony Blair, the Labour Party hasn't won a general election since 1974 and hasn't won a majority of seats in England since 1966. I think they've probably got a better claim to be winners.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
Lots of rumours about Chilcott being behind this, which I don't believe. The idea being that the right wing don't want Corbyn getting up to denounce Blair et al. Well, he's going to do that anyway, whether leader or not.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
OK, I guess I have to ask. Assume that the 170-odd MPs who voted against Mr Corbyn are backstabbing egomaniacal mafiosi.
I don't know to what extent local parties are able to select the candidate they put up for Parliament, but volunteer activists can choose whether they campaign for those candidates or vote with their feet.
Did those volunteers know that they were campaigning for backstabbing egomaniacal mafiosi at the time, and if so, why did they do it? Or have they only just turned into backstabbing egomaniacal mafiosi, and, if so, what could have brought about such an astonishing plummet into moral degradation?
Well, the other story going around is that some of the right wing fear deselection, if there's a quick election.
Some of the Blairites were parachuted in, I don't know about the Brownites. And some of them, believe it or not, had Leave majorities in their constituencies. Of course, that's Jeremy's fault.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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PaulTH*
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# 320
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Quetzelcoatl:
Do they seriously think that another New Labour is going to win back the Leave voters and the UKIP voters, and the council estates? No way.
Why not? They won middle England in 1997 for the first time since Atlee.
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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Garasu
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# 17152
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Posted
I do kind of feel that the PLP has shot itself in the foot by being more anti-Corbin than concerned about opposing the current 'austerity' programme...
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
quote:
Originally posted by Quetzelcoatl:
Do they seriously think that another New Labour is going to win back the Leave voters and the UKIP voters, and the council estates? No way.
Why not? They won middle England in 1997 for the first time since Atlee.
Well, there you are, you can vote Angela Eagle now.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
This isn't about middle England.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Callan
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# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:
Essentially, In a one member one transferable vote system the party voted Corbyn leader less than a year ago.
So far so good.
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He won with a massive margin in all subsections of the party.
Well, there wasn't really an electoral college anymore. Once you had a nomination the Party members and the £3 supporters all had a vote.
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Nobody had expected that to happen.
Stephen Bush called it in the New Statesman, but let that pass.
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The party membership doubled.
As greens, SWPers, erstwhile Militants ad various other entryists flooded in.
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But most of the MPs were very unhappy about it
No shit Sherlock. I mean, why on earth would people who recall the repeated defeats of the Labour Party in the 1980s, last time they embraced this sort of nonsense, and the long difficult crawl back to electability be remotely bothered by the election of a terrorist sympathiser who opposed every step of that journey.
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because he's considered very left wing.
God knows how they got that impression.
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(Though from a historical perspective he's fairly moderate.).
Don't. No really, just don't. Michael Foot, whose tenure is generally regarded as the high point of Labour left wingery in the 1980s had his faults but he was generally regarded by the Bennite left as deeply parteigenossen and was implacably opposed to the IRA and would not have appeared on a platform with Hamas or Hezbollah.
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He tried to be concilliatary, include those MPs in his shadow cabinet, and tolerate some public expression of dissent. This was necessary to attempt to unify the parliamentary party, but it hasn't worked.
Indeed. But the fact is he didn't look like winning an election then and he looks less like winning and election now. And, as things stand, we are going to leave the EU. Things are going horribly, horribly wrong and Jeremy has no fucking clue what to do about it.
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Though in fact he got slightly more support in the no confidence vote than he did in original parliamentary nomination process. He original only scraped the 35 MPs support he needed to get on the ballot. This time he got 40 + 4 abstentions.
That General Steiner. It's said they whisper his name in Moscow.
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There is evidence that this mass resignation event has been partially organised by Portland Communications which is company with links to the Blairite wing of the party.
Oh, FFS, the Canary is not a reputable news organisation and the members of the Parliamentary Labour Party are presumably able to use telephones and e-mail like the rest of us without some Blairite Svengali telling them what to do.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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