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Source: (consider it) Thread: An echo chamber of like-minded individuals
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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There is a fairly common dynamic within communities, both in real life and those who post on internet discussion forums. That is, the community develops around some central core ideas, with high quality discussion and interactions between people who, though diverse, often have a lot of shared understanding of the way things are.

Then, that community is disturbed by someone coming in from outside who has views that are significantly different from the central core ideas, views that are challenging and uncomfortable. Reactions then vary, in a manner that IMO says more about the community than the newcomer.

In some cases the newcomer is rapidly ejected from the community - either through official sanction, or simple lack of welcome from the members of that community. Several people here have experienced that online, joining discussion sites where the moderators pounce on the first suggestion that you may not accept the party line - politely suggesting that the Bible may not be literally true on some point, or that the worship songs of [insert newest fashionable song-writer] have no theological depth. Or, where members launch into a tirade of personal attacks for daring to suggest that they are wrong (often resulting in a lot of work for leaders troubled by the actions of part of their community).

Sometimes after a rocky start the newcomer sticks around the community, always on the edge, known by all as "that guy with really odd views on ..."

In most cases, we end up observing communities of more-or-less like-minded people who happily talk to each other. But react against other-minded individuals who cross their path. Does it have to be thus? Can't things run along a different, better, path?

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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[Oh, and just to add. This is Purgatory, so although we may all think of particular individuals it would be much better if we don't end up talking about particular, named individuals.]

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Raptor Eye
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# 16649

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I think that unless disturbed by someone with radically different views, we settle into mediocrity. It doesn't mean that we must agree with them, but it forces us to rethink our own views and to reframe our arguments.

I also think that people with radically different views may deliberately choose places to air them where they will make an impact. They don't necessarily want to be embraced, but they do usually want to be heard.

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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10

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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

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I think it's tough to see past your own prejudices and in-group norms.

That said, context matters. If you say "X is dangerous nonsense." (where X is some political idea) in some general space you may well get disagreement but not necessarily anything more.

If you say "X is dangerous nonsense and a betrayal of true socialism." and you do so on a forum of Labour supporters, many of whom consider themselves thoroughly socialist... well you'll get a tougher reaction.

I think acknowledging that you speak from an outsider position can go a long way. Claiming to speak from the heart of the group identity when you're taking a minority opinion in the group will not go down well.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I don't like echo chambers, as I've said before.

But in the case of certain individuals--

There are those who come from way out in left field as far as the community goes, and that's fine. But there are also those who deliberately show up with the intention of trolling the community. It can be hard to tell the difference, and I try not to jump to conclusions--but when someone shows every indication of being a troll (as opposed to an honest disagree-er), IMHO it's not surprising when the community decides to roast him/her.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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I am going to presume " trolling" is going to include disrepectful or rude behavior along the way-- the troll is acting against stated values and etiquette of the group in question.

Of course, addressing that in a fashion that instructs the new person how things work makes perfect sense. If, however, the people doing the criticizing are acting out behavior that conflicts with the values and etiquette they claim to be defending, that makes no sense.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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BroJames
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# 9636

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The cognitive dissonance arising from a recognition that my viewpoint is wrong, or even not the only possible POVis always uncomfortable. It is likely to trigger some level of fight or flight reaction. That may be exacerbated by logically unrelated factors, like how some other person whose views I value has responded to the same issue.

However, I think much depends on how the different POV is put forward. (Although some views may be hot button topics for particular communities.) In general an eirenic approach, and a willingness to accept that I might be wrong is more likely to gain me a hearing than some kind of pronouncement from on high, or "here I am with the newest, most up to date, and obviously right answer".

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Yes, and we get pulled up on it by hosts when we do. Which is meet, right and salutary.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
The cognitive dissonance arising from a recognition that my viewpoint is wrong, or even not the only possible POVis always uncomfortable. It is likely to trigger some level of fight or flight reaction. That may be exacerbated by logically unrelated factors, like how some other person whose views I value has responded to the same issue.

Exactly right. Then add the fairly predictable result of when five or six people who all agree with each other are all experiencing this situation together.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Rereading our various written guidelines and explanations, as one does as a host, I was recently reminded that at the top of the board here it says
quote:
All views are welcome – orthodox, unorthodox, radical or just plain bizarre – so long as you can stand being challenged
The onus is on the outliers to stand being challenged; the onus on the regulars is to continue to make the outliers welcome however divergent their views may be from the aggregate.

It's a bit like church really.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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I have to say that you'd only describe this website as being full of like-minded individuals if the individuals you had in mind are those who enjoy having intense rows about their differences. In almost every other way this community is about as divergent as it is possible to get.

A new person here with a wild view is highly unlikely to be ejected or experience a lack of welcome simply because they have a wild view. About the only time they'll actually be ejected is if they behave in a way that is disruptive.

And so it is in the rest of life. A person who joins a tennis club with an unorthodox back-hand and wild views on second serves isn't likely to be ejected. A person who joins a tennis club with the intention of banning tennis and making everyone play lawn bowls is. The difference between the latter and the former is that the latter lacks even a basic amount of respect for the underlying rules of the thing they've joined.

In a church context, as we've discussed many times, there are many different people in many different churches who have bent various rules and norms to breaking point. But someone coming in and doing something - superficially similar - gets short shrift.

I remember as a child being in a church service when a man burst in from the back, run up the pulpit steps and began to rant. Two elders lifted him by the arms and carried him out of the building. Similar things have happened at different times to George Fox, Peter Tatchell, John Wesley and others, of course.

The same person saying the same thing from an acknowledged position of respect within the community might not have resulted in such a rapid ejection.

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arse

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I have to say that you'd only describe this website as being full of like-minded individuals if the individuals you had in mind are those who enjoy having intense rows about their differences. In almost every other way this community is about as divergent as it is possible to get.

I don't think anyone has explicitly applied that description to this website here, and we do indeed offer quite a broad range.

Nevertheless, I think most of us have a lot of shared points of reference. We are all English-speakers for one thing, and concentrated in a fairly small number of geographical areas.

More broadly, our search engines direct our searches on the basis of past preferences, and exploring bits of the web that we don't usually visit can be very challenging in terms of overcoming cultural differences.

One of the things I enjoy about my life at present is the opportunities it gives me to interact with a really broad spread of people, cultures and social backgrounds, as I fulfil a variety of roles.

In doing so I'm repeatedly struck by how hard it is for one particular social subset to imagine life outside their usual world. Even within the translation community, there are virtually watertight barriers between various approaches to the job.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
In a church context, as we've discussed many times, there are many different people in many different churches who have bent various rules and norms to breaking point. But someone coming in and doing something - superficially similar - gets short shrift.

Is this not a function of human organizations generally? - for instance, political parties. It's certainly also true of anyone trying to change a commonly-held academic consensus (e.g. as when Fred Hoyle was trying to propound the "Big Bang" theory of the universe to an astronomical community that was wedded to "Steady State"). Here the difficulty lies in sorting out the "innovation and worth further discussion" with the "simply bonkers".

Of course, there are some organisations which are much more tolerant of well-argued divergent views than others ... it may have something to do with how secure its members feel within themselves, or how well they feel they can argue their own position.

Personally I feel it is good for a church to incorporate a healthy dialectic as that helps people to think. But there are many - at many different points on the Evangelical/Liberal spectrum - which have unconsciously adopted a "party line" on theology or culture and simply freeze out anyone who differs. It's unhealthy (and, I believe, unChristian).

[ 30. September 2016, 08:21: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

Nevertheless, I think most of us have a lot of shared points of reference. We are all English-speakers for one thing, and concentrated in a fairly small number of geographical areas.

Yes, that's quite right too. Which is really interesting to try to explain exactly what we mean by like-minded and divergent.

quote:
More broadly, our search engines direct our searches on the basis of past preferences, and exploring bits of the web that we don't usually visit can be very challenging in terms of overcoming cultural differences.
Oh yes, that's absolutely true.

quote:
One of the things I enjoy about my life at present is the opportunities it gives me to interact with a really broad spread of people, cultures and social backgrounds, as I fulfil a variety of roles.

In doing so I'm repeatedly struck by how hard it is for one particular social subset to imagine life outside their usual world. Even within the translation community, there are virtually watertight barriers between various approaches to the job.

Thanks yes, that's an important contribution. It is absolutely true that there are invisible lines and norms which help to organise our lives that we are not aware of.

I should therefore revise my previous characterisation of this website as being full of people with wild divergent views whilst simultaneously being very similar.

Interesting, I'd not thought of it like that before.

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arse

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Is this not a function of human organizations generally? - for instance, political parties. It's certainly also true of anyone trying to change a commonly-held academic consensus (e.g. as when Fred Hoyle was trying to propound the "Big Bang" theory of the universe to an astronomical community that was wedded to "Steady State"). Here the difficulty lies in sorting out the "innovation and worth further discussion" with the "simply bonkers".

I'd like to believe it is a bit different in science because the emphasis there is on having enough evidence to persuade the consensus of your peers that a different explanation is correct.

Of course, reaching scientific consensus isn't as simple as that given that it includes other factors such as human nature.

Whereas for a church or political party it isn't so much about fact as much as belief and ideology.

quote:
Personally I feel it is good for a church to incorporate a healthy dialectic as that helps people to think. But there are many - at many different points on the Evangelical/Liberal spectrum - which have unconsciously adopted a "party line" on theology or culture and simply freeze out anyone who differs. It's unhealthy (and, I believe, unChristian).
I think it is almost impossible to have a religious view without it becoming a "party line" - at least in the current reality of "consumer" religion where we can all pick-and-choose from a wide variety of available options.

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arse

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Another distinction is the one between people (like just about everyone here) for whom the internet in some shape or form is pretty much a brain extension, and those who barely use it at all.

If you spend a lot of time online, it becomes hard to remember the latter category exists, but it does, and is far larger in my view than people in the former category might imagine.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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Not on line much recently (I'm suffering from an infected impacted wisdom tooth), but when it comes to this discussion, I'd like to share a quote from the "Dune" series.

quote:
If you put away from you those who seek to tell you the truth, those who remain will know what you want to hear. I can think of nothing more poisonous than to rot in the stink of your own reflections
.

The problem, as a counselling supervisor once put it to me, is that friends tend to collude. It takes a very good friend to confront, to put a valued relationship at risk. At best, we often soft-pedal.

I recently had some exchanges on a DH issue (where the great majority opinion here is radical) on a different discussion forum (where the great majority opinion is conservative). Found it hard to believe the vitriol I stirred up. But it was kind of stimulating as well. Reminded me of another choice quote; Mark Knophler, from "Brothers in Arms".

quote:
We have just one world
But we live in different ones

There is a lot to be said for providing an environment within which the occupants of the different thought worlds feel it is worth their while to collide.

Back to my painkillers and antibiotics ...

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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I have been very concerned that the US Presidential Election thread is so pro-Clinton. Not one person (except temporarily myself when I got bored) openly declared that they support Trump and became a regular poster. The one person who posts frequently against Clinton explicitly does not support Trump.

I'm prepared to accept that supporting Trump if you are outside the United States is just impossible, but surely we have some politically engaged American shipmates who can mount a defence of his candidacy.

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Human

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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
It's certainly also true of anyone trying to change a commonly-held academic consensus (e.g. as when Fred Hoyle was trying to propound the "Big Bang" theory of the universe to an astronomical community that was wedded to "Steady State").
Point of information: Fred Hoyle in fact propounded the continuous origin of matter, in opposition to the Big Bang theory. He sets his theory out in his book "Frontiers of Astronomy".

Which does not invalidate the point you are making, but just for the record…….

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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases

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Teekeey Misha
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# 18604

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
...react against other-minded individuals who cross their path. Does it have to be thus? Can't things run along a different, better, path?

It need not be thus and other paths are available, but each conversation has (at least) two drivers, either of whom may run it along the better path or a worse.

People have beliefs, some of them deeply held and deeply personal, so many naturally find it discomforting to hear their views challenged. Most people, though, realize that such discomfort is not necessarily a bad thing. I like to have my views challenged; a good old row makes me consider my opinions and attitudes - perhaps from a different angle - better to understand why I was right in the first place or why I was wrong and should change my mind.

Generally, those who come into conversations on the Ship with a surprise tackle from the wing are welcomed; there is a scrum and the conversational ball moves on. It strikes me, though, that the welcome can quickly evaporate based on content and intention.

Content based on "A is wrong/stupid/immoral and if you believe it you, too, are wrong/stupid/immoral" is both poor debate and downright rudeness. It's not worthy of a welcome. It's dust to be shaken from one's sandals. (Personally, I'm immediately switched straight off when smugly told that I believe the wrong thing because "you don't understand/you don't know the truth". It's ignorant, arrogant and presumptuous.)

Intention? The intention of debate is, funnily enough, to debate. There is little warmth of welcome for those who stride into a conversation with the intention only of using the debate as a soapbox from which to yell their own opinion. It strikes me that (as an example straight off the top of my head...) if one's contribution to a conversation is a text that one has written previously and published in (countless) other places, one signals an intention to soapbox. There is no intention to engage or to rethink. One clearly intends only to convert. That, too, is both poor debate and downright rudeness.

If, moreover, one starts a conversation solely with the express intention of publishing that same prepared text, one is not only debating poorly and being rude; one is also being deceptive. People are, I find, less inclined to take a conversation along a "different, better path" if they feel that their fellow traveller is being deceitful and manipulative.

The Ship's Eighth Commandment is, I believe, there for a reason.

--------------------
Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.

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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
Point of information: Fred Hoyle in fact propounded the continuous origin of matter, in opposition to the Big Bang theory. He sets his theory out in his book "Frontiers of Astronomy".

Oh, well ....
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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
There is a fairly common dynamic within communities, both in real life and those who post on internet discussion forums. That is, the community develops around some central core ideas, with high quality discussion and interactions between people who, though diverse, often have a lot of shared understanding of the way things are.

I wonder whether the ‘common dynamic’ is more a case of a love of discussion and communication with others who enjoy the activity, rather than a common belief! People join and leave groups for all sorts of reasons and often quite unexpectedly different from what one thinks is the case.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Evangeline
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# 7002

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Scientist, cosmologist Prof. Brian Cox makes some really interesting points about people being labelled and segregated according to their beliefs rather than engaging with one another i.e. the echo chamber effect. Also if you listen hard enough some relevant points about science's inability to offer all the answers, maybe relevant for someone on this thread . As a minimum Brian Cox offers a great model of respectful interaction and consideration of the big questions.


Prof. Brian Cox at Leeds Diocesan Conference

"meaning is something scientists alone are not able to construct..."

[ 30. September 2016, 13:17: Message edited by: Evangeline ]

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
There is a fairly common dynamic within communities, both in real life and those who post on internet discussion forums. That is, the community develops around some central core ideas, with high quality discussion and interactions between people who, though diverse, often have a lot of shared understanding of the way things are.

I wonder whether the ‘common dynamic’ is more a case of a love of discussion and communication with others who enjoy the activity, rather than a common belief!
Maybe it's a common belief in the value and importance of discussion and communication with others.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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Evangeline
I'm afraid the you tube link doesn't work on my computer - and I've just had IE updated to 11 this very morning. I'll try and find it some other way, as the Prof is one of the best communicators around, isn't he.
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Maybe it's a common belief in the value and importance of discussion and communication with others.

Yes, I agree.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
Scientist, cosmologist Prof. Brian Cox makes some really interesting points about people being labelled and segregated according to their beliefs rather than engaging with one another i.e. the echo chamber effect. Also if you listen hard enough some relevant points about science's inability to offer all the answers, maybe relevant for someone on this thread . As a minimum Brian Cox offers a great model of respectful interaction and consideration of the big questions.


Prof. Brian Cox at Leeds Diocesan Conference

"meaning is something scientists alone are not able to construct..."

Thoughtful stuff from Cox, smashing the image of the hard-line atheist scientist, shouting that love is just the movement of neurons! A kind of reaching out by him.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Thoughtful stuff from Cox, smashing the image of the hard-line atheist scientist, shouting that love is just the movement of neurons! A kind of reaching out by him.

Are you acquainted with many atheists who think in that rigid, unfeeling way about emotions such as love? Would you say that the quality and strength of believers’ feelings of and about love are somehow greater than those of non-believers I wonder?

Hosts: If this is too much of a tangent, please delete.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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hosting/

We don't delete posts except in extreme circumstances. But yes it is a tangent too far, and I'm glad you realised.

/hosting

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Thoughtful stuff from Cox, smashing the image of the hard-line atheist scientist, shouting that love is just the movement of neurons! A kind of reaching out by him.

Are you acquainted with many atheists who think in that rigid, unfeeling way about emotions such as love? Would you say that the quality and strength of believers’ feelings of and about love are somehow greater than those of non-believers I wonder?

Hosts: If this is too much of a tangent, please delete.

Well, that was the point of my word 'image'. It's a caricature, isn't it? There may be atheists who say that love is simply the movement of neurons, but I don't know any. Some of the verificationists may have argued this, such as Ayer, but I'm not all that sure, since their arguments tended to self-implode.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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hosting/

Quetzalcoatl, I'll assume that was a cross-post with my host post above. If you or SusanDoris want to continue this tangent, please start another thread.

/hosting

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Thoughtful stuff from Cox, smashing the image of the hard-line atheist scientist, shouting that love is just the movement of neurons! A kind of reaching out by him.

Personally, I can't stand him - but it is interesting to hear him talk warmly about speaking at an Anglican church event. I wonder whether this warmth was due to a reception of being generally open to his schtick and on his own terms. I mean, if you are in a room with a world-renowned cosmologist (or however it is that Cox describes himself today), there isn't very likely to be much conflict - even if he thinks your religious beliefs are totally crackers.

I doubt it would have been so warm if the discussion had been about the ethics of (for example) spending large amounts of money on space science in a world of hunger. But then I guess (understandably, of course) Cox wouldn't accept an invitation to attend a seminar on that topic.

Hmm.

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arse

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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He may well think that religion is totally crackers, but I think he has enough PR sense not to say that. In fact, his statement that 'it's naive to say there is no God' became quite famous, but then so did his use of his fridge to disprove the afterlife.

I am guessing that he doesn't want to be known as a hard-line anti-theist, or in fact, an anti-theist at all.

A voter for the co-existence of religion and science, I suppose.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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[ADMIN]

Mr. Cheesy and quetzalcoatl, both of you posted more than a half hour after Eutychus asked for the tangent to stop. There was no way it could be a crosspost. The topic of this thread is stated in the OP, please return to it.

General reminder: it pays to slow down and read carefully if something that looks like [hosting] [/hosting] pops up in your vision while you are skimming a thread.
Kelly Alves
Admin


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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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Kelly, I wasn't discussing the SusanDoris tangent, I was discussing whether Prof Cox was - in some way - talking on a subject that the audience was calmly receptive to rather than another topic they were not.

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arse

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I thought that Cox is absolutely germane to the OP. He seems to be trying to break out from one perceived ghetto to another. However.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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You also know where to discuss a Hosting issue!

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
You also know where to discuss a Hosting issue!

In rereading the above, I realize I got the wrong idea about what Euty was calling a tangent. So, carry on about Cox. Sorry.

I'll repeat what I said about taking Host/ Admin challenges to the Styx, though.

[Admin claws sheathed.]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Evangeline
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# 7002

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Susan Doris

Thank-you for the interesting post about your computer situation.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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I saw what you did there.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I saw what you did there.

Well, over the years, I have seen this sentence on forums, but unless something very obvious is in the words, I fail completely to see anysubtle meaning! [Smile] So, just for a change, I think I'll ask if you could please explain!! I would point out that my note to evangeline was simply a fact!

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Evangeline is imitating your posting style to suggest that you avoided answering the actual point made and provided extraneous information instead as a distraction.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Evangeline is imitating your posting style to suggest that you avoided answering the actual point made and provided extraneous information instead as a distraction.

thank you. I'm afraid that doing things just to distract is a bit too complicated for me! I just respon to posts as best I can.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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I have tried the link again and it just comes up with a blank space where the video should be.
I have also tried googling 'Prof Brian Cox at Leeds diocesan Conference and it came up with something about 'get your tickets'...

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Well that's weird because if I google that exact phrase the video is the second result down. And your post above is the tenth down.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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BroJames
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# 9636

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Susan Doris, I googled "you tube brian cox leeds diocesan" in my browser, and that brought it up for me. Also some people have obviously had trouble with IE 11 and video playback. This link might help: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/2532294
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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Susan Doris, I googled "you tube brian cox leeds diocesan" in my browser, and that brought it up for me. Also some people have obviously had trouble with IE 11 and video playback. This link might help: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/2532294

Ah, thank you very much. I'll ask my next-door neighbour if she would come and have a look to see if she can help. My software can be a bit of a problem too.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Galloping Granny
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# 13814

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To return to the OP.
I enjoy the fact that people on the Ship are all interested in discussing attitudes to the Christian faith from often widely disparate standpoints, but normally without rancour.

It is interesting to read the passionately held beliefs of people whose faith position is miles away from mine, and to try to understand what they reveal about their journey, but without arguing if the topic is pretty well meaningless to me.

It is stimulating to be among everyone from the doctrinally orthodox to theological progressives like myself to those who’ve given up on formal church commitment but still enjoy the discussion; having a few thoughtful atheists on the Ship makes us examine our own convictions.

I’m not worried if I'm rubbished for quoting someone like Crossan, because I live among people who respect the Westar theologians and take their lead from them.

Actually, our board of nomination seem to be having a problem finding a new minister among the traditionalists our denomination is turning out. Our congregation as a whole doesn’t argue about minutiae of doctrine, being more concerned, as Robin Meyers put it, to stop worshiping Christ and start following Jesus.

May all who post here rest in the presence of the spirit of God.

GG

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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113

Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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My thoughts on theology are wishy-washy, half baked and slightly whacky these days. Folks on the Ship put up with me and reply kindly and politely. I wouldn't be able to find an echo chamber if I tried, here or anywhere else!

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Garden. Room. Walk

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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I'd like to pick up on what I think is the most fundamental point of the OP. This is more than a collection of individuals, or at least it is at its best. It's a community - one which encompasses a great many types of people and most shades of opinion on most issues - but it's not just a discussion board on which people are welcome to broadcast without listening.

I must admit that I've been guilty of overlooking this at times, and have found that it doesn't work. One has to demonstrate a certain amount of interest in the welfare of the vessel before its population will engage. As it is by nature a discursive craft, one does primarily by demonstrating that one is listening to what is being said and willing to debate with shipmates.

ETA: reading OP for comprehension first helps improve quality of posts.

[ 02. October 2016, 14:48: Message edited by: ThunderBunk ]

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My thoughts on theology are wishy-washy, half baked and slightly whacky these days. Folks on the Ship put up with me and reply kindly and politely. I wouldn't be able to find an echo chamber if I tried, here or anywhere else!

I'm not so sure.
All your posts resonate with me.

GG

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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113

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