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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Are Conservatives More Afraid Than they used to be?
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
I admit that I'm tempted to post a nice vent in Hell, but I'm curious. Are Conservatives more fearful of violence than they used to be?
I ask because a Conservative Christian family member posted something on social media about how sad it is that not only do we now have to put on the armor of God, but we have to literally arm ourselves (as in firearms) in order to exercise our freedom to worship in our churches. Her church has 2 men with firearms (not sure if the guns are visible) standing guard at the door of their church and they escort children to their Sunday schools and such.
What depth of fear dictates that armed church members must escort their children and guarding their doors. Who do they think is going to come in and open fire on them?
Then another person responded that his church is planning to do this, too!
I know there have been discussions, policies, and what-not within denominational bodies and the debate about right to carry weapons in church, but it seems that deliberately posting armed church members at the door is taking gate-keeping to another level.
It's as if they are *convinced* that wolves are circling their church and ready to pounce and devour at any moment. Are the wolves they're afraid of specific people or is it more of a conceptual fear? By the way the post read, the fear is that somehow their freedom to exercise their religion is in imminent danger of being forcibly and violently taken away and they have to arm themselves to win the war. I want to know who's planning on doing this to a church full of white people?
OK - those of you who may remember me from back when know I can get rambly, so I'll stop with that. (because I'd love to also discuss what this is doing to the children's ideas about, well, a lot of things)
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
That's really very scary to read.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
The only churches getting shot up are black ones getting shot up by white Christians.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Must be an American thing?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Must be an American thing?
It's definitely an American thing. Is it a thing anywhere else? Very likely not. The gun-nuts are a pretty American thing. Although I'm not as certain the "Help! Help! We're under attack for being Christians!" phenomenon is limited to our borders.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Must be an American thing?
It's definitely an American thing. Is it a thing anywhere else? Very likely not. The gun-nuts are a pretty American thing. Although I'm not as certain the "Help! Help! We're under attack for being Christians!" phenomenon is limited to our borders.
The "War on Christmas" would indicate it is not limited to American shores. Does feel more virulent there, though.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
You guys have the "War on Christmas" thing too? I'm so sorry.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The only churches getting shot up are black ones getting shot up by white Christians.
Right.
All except this one.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
And this one
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Oh, and this one...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yeah, there've been white people shooting white people (and others) in churches.
Church and synagogue *burnings* are, AFAIK, done by white people.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Given the data which is incredibly clear that owning and carrying a gun significantly increases the chances of someone getting shot (by accidental misfiring, the gun getting into the hands of children, someone innocent being mistaken for an intruder, arguments getting out of hand ...) then for the safety of my children I would find a church that didn't have people with guns hanging around. I'd also exit any location where I know someone carrying a gun is present, and call the police. Though, then be out of the way because I don't want to be around armed police either, for my own safety.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
We are in a situation where churches legitimately do have to consider whether they could be a target for terrorists. It’s already happened ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif) . Also we meet in a rented building and in the immediate aftermath of the November attacks the owner was fairly reluctant to let us use it for a big crowd/soft target type gathering. Under the state of emergency they had the right to refuse, contract notwithstanding.
Consequently security measures had to be put in place as a condition of renting the premises. This meant paying for professional security guards to check everyone’s bags on the way in etc. The pros also trained some of our people so they could carry on doing the job once the threat died down a bit. Yes it felt a bit odd having your bag searched on the way into church but I think people have accepted that it’s just the way of the world now.
*However*, at no point did anyone ever contemplate having weapons around the place. There is realistically nothing much our security could do against a guy with a Kalashnikov but I think we’d rather take the risk and trust God that it’s going to be ok.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I'm inclined to suggest that it (the attitude reported in the OP) is simply a churchy manifestation of the general paranoia that seems to pervade some sections of the right wing in the USA. Which is not to say that analogous paranoias do not occur elsewhere, but the American one seems to be a bit of a thing in itself, and elsewhere other elements come into play.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
I'm inclined to suggest that it (the attitude reported in the OP) is simply a churchy manifestation of the general paranoia that seems to pervade some sections of the right wing in the USA. Which is not to say that analogous paranoias do not occur elsewhere, but the American one seems to be a bit of a thing in itself, and elsewhere other elements come into play.
I'm seeing two paranoias in the OP.
1) a fear that there will be an attempt to prevent them meeting to worship. Presumably that would need to be a threat to their freedom to worship from the government - though I've not seen anything to suggest the current or any future US government would even contemplate that - the closest might be Trump saying he'll close down mosques, and admittedly once the freedom for one group to worship has been removed then there is a much smaller step towards the freedoms of others to be curtailed.
2) a fear of attack by terrorists/criminals/deranged individuals. At least such attacks do occur, even though very rare. There have been churches firebombed, explosive devices left at churches, people shot while at church. Though, the vast majority of such attacks have been against churches with a majority black congregation, or liberal churches which have been strong advocates of race equality, gender equality, expression of sexuality, pro-life etc. Conservative churches are much less likely to be victims of such attacks, and indeed some conservative churches are likely to encourage such attacks.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I'm seeing two paranoias in the OP.
That is also how I see it.
Although the numbers show that people in the US and elsewhere are less likely to be shot than at any time in our history, the daily news coverage makes it seem otherwise.
But the paranoia really comes from an easily identifiable ideological shift in the US.
It used to be that being an American conservative was almost synonymous with being anti-communist. It stood for all the values that opposed godless communists, from Christian morality to a strong military presence. Liberals, on the other hand, were always hampered by a persistent, even if groundless, link with communism.
Now that communism as a threat has disappeared, conservatives have become unmoored, and liberalism has taken a dominant position. Conservatism is now associated with things that were never distinctly conservative in the past, like gun rights.
The result is strange fears and positions, as in the OP.
Still, it is true that the new dominance of liberalism does pose a real threat. In a liberal culture religion wilts like crops in a drought. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Presumably that would need to be a threat to their freedom to worship from the government - though I've not seen anything to suggest the current or any future US government would even contemplate that
A more likely example might be churches subjected to lawsuits if they refuse to perform same-sex marriages. While this is not likely in churches themselves, it is definitely an issue at church-linked venues that host weddings for the general public.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
But the paranoia really comes from an easily identifiable ideological shift in the US.
It used to be that being an American conservative was almost synonymous with being anti-communist. It stood for all the values that opposed godless communists, from Christian morality to a strong military presence. Liberals, on the other hand, were always hampered by a persistent, even if groundless, link with communism.
And as we know from history, there was never any irrational fear or paranoia associated with this anti-communist position. Conservatives aren't more afraid than they used to be because they've always been afraid.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Is that the best you can do romanlion?
The first is unique. I mean absolutely unique. I'm not aware of an Islamist doing this anywhere else in the Western world for a start.
The second is a BLACK! guy shooting up and vandalizing empty churches in Tennessee. Uh huh.
The third happened 10 years ago and was a domestic tragedy all within a black family in a black church in Baton Rouge.
In that same period:
2006 July 11 A cross is burned outside a predominantly black church in Richmond, Virginia
2008 November 5 Macedonia Church of God in Christ, Springfield, Massachusetts, is burned out. Arrest made.
2010 In Crane, Texas, Faith in Christ Church is vandalized and firebombed by a man attempting to gain entry into the Aryan Brotherhood. Arrest made.
2014 Flood Christian Church in Ferguson, Mo was burned by arsonists. Flood Christian is where Michael Brown Sr. was baptized. Some attribute it to the protests which burned several other buildings that night, while others claim the building was far from where protests took place and was more likely retaliatory for the comments its pastor had made regarding the release of the officer who had shot Michael Brown Jr.
2015 June 17 Charleston church shooting. At Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, nine African Americans are shot and killed and a tenth shot and survived in a mass shooting. Arrest made.
2015 June 22 At College Hill Seventh Day Adventist, in Knoxville, Tennessee, a small fire is set, resulting in minimal damage to the church structure and destruction of the church van. The act was not classified as a hate crime.[16]
2015 June 23 God’s Power Church of Christ in Macon, Georgia, is "gutted" by a fire. The fire was ruled arson.
2015 June 24 At Briar Creek Baptist Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, an unknown arsonist starts a three-alarm fire, causing more than $250,000 in damages.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
And as we know from history, there was never any irrational fear or paranoia associated with this anti-communist position. Conservatives aren't more afraid than they used to be because they've always been afraid.
Good point! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
It reminds me of my American impression of Winston Churchill.
For years before WWII he made passionate speeches about the threat posed by the enemy, how they were building up their forces, etc. The speeches fell on deaf ears.
But then it became obvious that he was right. He was recognized as a leader, and led the Allies to an amazing victory.
When it was over, he resumed his speeches. His message and point of view, however, had not changed. He spoke passionately about the threat posed by the enemy, how they were building up their forces, etc. The speeches fell on deaf ears.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
Are Conservatives more fearful of violence than they used to be?
Only the conservative wives of socialist husbands who haven't stopped beating them yet.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
The question might be poor because it is too general and implies a single entity (with a sense of other and weird), but it isn't a classic wife-beating set up because it is possible to answer "no".
[ 04. October 2016, 15:57: Message edited by: mdijon ]
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Is that the best you can do romanlion?
Plainly refute the post I quoted?
Yeah, that's all I got...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
When it was over, he resumed his speeches. His message and point of view, however, had not changed. He spoke passionately about the threat posed by the enemy, how they were building up their forces, etc. The speeches fell on deaf ears.
Not entirely deaf ears. He did call for (western) Europe to unite, calling for a United States of Europe, to stand against the Soviet threat. Which was part of the founding vision of the European Union - admittedly a vision that those in Britain most likely to wave the flag and invoke the spirit of Churchill rejected.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Not entirely deaf ears.
I'm sure that's right. I doubt that my take would stand up to scrutiny. These kinds of things are always complicated.
The point is just that we tend to have our points of view and that we grab at whatever evidence is handy to justify them.
As I have mentioned before, I love Stephen Prothero's "Why Liberals Win the Culture Wars" as an explanation of what Conservative anxiety is all about.
I think of myself as a Conservative, and so am perpetually anxious about society's decline, but Prothero's argument is persuasive.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Is that the best you can do romanlion?
Plainly refute the post I quoted?
Yeah, that's all I got...
Plainly.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
The question might be poor because it is too general and implies a single entity (with a sense of other and weird), but it isn't a classic wife-beating set up because it is possible to answer "no".
You can answer "no" to the classic wife beating set up as well. The question is based on the claim by their opponents, take Michael Moore in Bowling for Columbine for instance, that conservatives believe what they do because they are "afraid." The OP assumes the original claim was correct and then asks are they more afraid than they used to be. A conservative answering no would be conceding that the original claim was correct much the same way as the man who said yes when asked if he stopped beating his wife admitted to having beaten his wife in the past.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
I'm inclined to suggest that it (the attitude reported in the OP) is simply a churchy manifestation of the general paranoia that seems to pervade some sections of the right wing in the USA. Which is not to say that analogous paranoias do not occur elsewhere, but the American one seems to be a bit of a thing in itself, and elsewhere other elements come into play.
In the American version guns are seen as the answer. Other places see them as the problem.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
quote:
I think of myself as a Conservative, and so am perpetually anxious about society's decline
This goes to the difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives constantly see society in decline. Probably goes further back than Socrates. Same sex marriage, transgender rights, violence, loss of world status, crime, homelessness, disrespect of flag, etc. Every thing is going to h-ll in a hand basket.
The deal of it is violence will always beget violence--conservatives are stocking up and arming themselves but more guns means just more violence in the end.
As a liberal, though, I see the same trends and see more positives than negatives. Equal marriage/equal rights apply to all (granted, there will have to some sorting out in the process). We are a nation among nations and need to continue to improve relationships--even negotiate with our enemies--to promote world peace. Violence has actually gone down if one looks at the long term trends and there are more effective ways of dealing with crime and violence. Homelessness can actually be solved within a decade.
It is not that I am looking through rose-colored glasses. But if people think things are looking up, they tend to want to take more progressive actions.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
The deal of it is violence will always beget violence--conservatives are stocking up and arming themselves but more guns means just more violence in the end.
Yes!
I tend to think that this is a new and unfortunate twist on the formula.
Maybe it is not new, though. I guess the Nazis and KKK were this kind of conservative, or reactionary.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
The deal of it is violence will always beget violence--conservatives are stocking up and arming themselves but more guns means just more violence in the end.
Yes!
I tend to think that this is a new and unfortunate twist on the formula.
Maybe it is not new, though. I guess the Nazis and KKK were this kind of conservative, or reactionary.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Assorted replies:
--Re fear of losing religious freedom, etc:
"Democrats are treating people of faith like criminals." (Fox News)
I think the writer is fundamentalist or Evangelical. A couple of times, he refers to "Christian and Catholic"--like "oh, noes, can't be associated with papists!" And, a little past halfway down, he finally figures out that Jews and Muslims are people of faith, too.
He also has too much trust in Trump, even though he hates some of Trump's comments.
--Alan, re keeping your family free from guns:
If you were in the US and in a state permitting carrying a gun (whether openly or concealed), calling the cops might not do any good. I gather that some cops don't like open carry; but, when it's the law, they may not be able to do anything about it.
--Alan, re attacks on churches being "very rare":
In the US, they're *somewhat* rare, ISTM. Synagogues are attacked, and mosques. I think maybe a Sikh temple or two. And Pagans are sometimes persecuted for their faith, too--mostly because some people mistakenly think that they're in league with the devil. There are probably others.
--Sometimes, there are shootings in places you wouldn't necessarily expect. (I.e., not the "usual" news about schools and theaters.) Like the post office--hence the expression "going postal", because the employees are often under extreme, dehumanizing pressure, and they lose it. Or law firms. In the mid '90s, IIRC we had the "One California" shooting here in SF. That was the address of a high-rise, where a law firm resided. One party in a divorce was very upset about the firm's handling of his wife's side, and he went around shooting people. Not political or ideological terrorism.
I think that both numbs people, and makes them more nervous.
Paranoia is part of the gun problem. But so is actual reality.
--Freddy, re communism no longer being a threat:
Probably. But we're heading into another Cold War with Russia, if we aren't already there. Putin is ex-KGB. He wants to reunite Mother Russia--forcibly, if necessary. And I think he's having a mid-life crisis, including his divorce a year or two ago.
--Freddy, re "the Nazis and KKK were this kind of conservative, or reactionary":
They're both still around, in various forms, as well as lots of other hate groups. You might check out the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hatewatch page.
I cautiously recommend the film "Arlington Road"--about domestic terrorism. It's very well done, surprising, and extremely haunting. Hence my caution. You've been warned.
--There've been left-wing terrorists in the US, too. The only current ones I can think of are eco-terrorists, claiming to protect the environment at all cost. SPLC focuses on right-wing groups; but a Hatewatch search on "eco-terrorist" does bring up some hits.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--Alan, re keeping your family free from guns:
If you were in the US and in a state permitting carrying a gun (whether openly or concealed), calling the cops might not do any good. I gather that some cops don't like open carry; but, when it's the law, they may not be able to do anything about it.
Presumably the assumption being that if open carry is legal then someone carrying a gun is OK*, and the cops won't do anything until someone starts shooting people. Yeah, that would make me feel safer. If I ever go back to the States, and especially if I take my kids, I'll still feel better about getting away from someone clearly carrying a gun - if in a restaurant, head out and leave food on the table etc. And, I would still prefer to alert the police to someone carrying a lethal weapon, even if it's not going to result in any action.
* According to the news I've seen recently, the exception would be if someone is black where the response of the police to seeing someone with a gun isn't to assume they're OK, but to shoot first and find out if they have an open-carry permit later.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Alan--
Then, if you do come back for a visit, you might want to check the gun laws at your destination first, so you can decide whether or not it's worth it to go there, or some place with strict gun laws instead.
I think California is supposed to have some of the toughest gun laws in the country, if not *the* toughest. Probably should avoid Texas. Might want to avoid a place (if there is one) that has both open carry and legal marijuana. YMMV.
Kind of like I'm unlikely to ever travel to Singapore, because (per news) they have bizarre, strict punishments for ridiculous things. It may be a very nice place, otherwise, but I really don't want to take the risk.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
I'm tempted to post a nice vent
Looks like a rant was the next best thing.
Imagine if these generalisations about "Conservatives" (what's with the capital C, incidentally?) had been about Muslims, in which everyone from our Muslim friends and neighbours, to decapitators from IS, had been lumped in together; or The Left, in which those who believe in some sort of health system, and Khmer Rouge torturers, were treated as part of one, indistinguishable mass?
The OP would have been ripped to shreds in no time flat.
Who are these "Conservatives"?
If they are meant to be political, then even the meanest intellect is surely aware of the huge range of conservative thought in America alone.
If they are meant to be religious, do they refer to all those RCs, orthodox and Protestants who are Nicene, and therefore conservative, in their theology?
Or is it a dogwhistle for "evangelical", in which case why not say so openly?
Now imagine if pejorative generalisations about Muslims or Jews were based on one, or at the most two, mosques or synagogues employing armed guards, or about anyone on the Left if, as once happened where I live, some Maoist students once acquired some rifles to target practise in preparation for the revolution.
Once again, the OP would be left in tatters.
Instead, the OP has been made the opportunity for a moralistic ("I thank you Lord that i am not like those dreadful evangelicals"), virtue-signalling, communal jerk-off.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I hadn't particularly read evangelicals* as the target of the OP, but in my context it's primarily a theological/ecclesial description without any clear social or political connotations. I had seen it more as commenting on (US) Republicanism, and possibly the NRA as well.
(*Amongst whom I would - at least in my cultural context, again - generally class myself.)
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Alan--
Then, if you do come back for a visit, you might want to check the gun laws at your destination first, so you can decide whether or not it's worth it to go there, or some place with strict gun laws instead.
I think California is supposed to have some of the toughest gun laws in the country, if not *the* toughest. Probably should avoid Texas. Might want to avoid a place (if there is one) that has both open carry and legal marijuana. YMMV.
Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and one of the highest homicide-by-gun rates.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
It is hard for Chicago to enforce its gun laws when most of the firearms are coming from Gary Indiana which is just a hop, skip and jump from Chicago city limits.
This is one reason why we need uniform Federal gun laws, agreed to by all states. Of course, that will never happen.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
RCs, orthodox and Protestants
Apologies for unintentional typo - there was meant to be a capital O for Orthodox.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Odds Bodkin
Apprentice
# 18663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
Are Conservatives more fearful of violence than they used to be?
Of physical violence? Not at all. But England isn't a culture wracked with violence like certain sections of America are.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I think the "Conservatives" in view here are more of the American culture-war entrenched kind, OB.
Mind you, there is one heck of a discussion to be had about paranoia and American politics in general. Bit of a tangent though.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
Who are these "Conservatives"?
If they are meant to be political, then even the meanest intellect is surely aware of the huge range of conservative thought in America alone.
Fair point, Kaplan.
There is a type of conservatism that is and always has been about fear. Fear of change, fear of foreigners, fear of the unknown.
I think there was a study that showed a strong correlation between a conservative (small-c) political outlook and incidence of anxiety dreams.
But it doesn't follow that every flavour of conservative thought is nothing but a manifestation of fear.
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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