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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: This has gotten personal
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Stopping the loose use of contentious terminology like homophobe, misogynist, racist, so as to render them virtually meaningless might be a good place to start.
You seem to be arguing that because he won those labels shouldn't apply. I can't think of any definition of racist and misogyny that doesn't include a sentence or two from most of Trump's campaign speeches.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Those people saying that liberals need to engage with these people and listen to them need to explain what that would actually mean in practice and how it would be done without validating and normalizing misogyny, hate and racism.
Reason, logic, and facts do not seem to work. People see what they want and right now people want someone to blame for their perceived ills.
The fact that the groups they blame are either in the same situation or worse is lost.
I hate selfish attitudes, to begin, but the most frustrating part is that people have voted to fuck themselves as well.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It isn't about reason or logic. It's about people going with their feelings and often being emotionally inarticulate and unable, or unwilling, to get into all that touchy-feely intellectual rubbish of self-analysis which might actually get them looking at why they do or think particular things. It's a straightforward, uncomplicated approach to life: he's different, therefore he's wrong.
Rigidity of outlook doesn't make for happiness. It makes you a prisoner of your own beliefs, and angry and uncomfortable with anyone who doesn't conform. We're going to be seeing a lot of that in the coming days. Maybe in some ways it's better that it's coming to the surface and is out in the open instead of bubbling away as an undercurrent, but it's certainly going to be a very uncomfortable ride for the rest of us.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Joesaphat
Shipmate
# 18493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There's web sites, where they're collecting incidents of this sort. There are too many to count, I am sorry to say. Here's one. The Southern Poverty Law Center is reputable.
They are generally reputable. They did list Maajid Nawaz as an anti-Islamic bigot though. I'm not taking them at their word anymore.
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Opening my mouth and removing all doubt, online.
Posts: 418 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2015
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
In the face of fascistic tendencies, I remember Joe Hill: don't mourn, organize.
However, two points about that. I think Joe was wrong to say don't mourn, mourning is fine. And it is not incompatible with organizing at all.
And second, 'organize' can mean lots of things, not just Wobbly stuff. (Industrial Workers of the World, of which Joe was a member, later framed for a murder and shot).
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Amen to that, quetzalcoatl. In fact, mourning properly can give you the energy to fight properly.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
The only energy I have is rage. I am still ideologically opposed, but never have I been emotionally closer to separatist thought.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
If a sizeable portion of your population is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and you can't change them because they don't want to change...
what the hell do you do?
Stopping the loose use of contentious terminology like homophobe, misogynist, racist, so as to render them virtually meaningless might be a good place to start.
Trump just stood up over months of campaigning, blatantly withstood all the misogynistic name calling, plus a grotesque revelation that should have finished him, and then simply blew political correctness off it's pedestal.
I'm not applauding that achievement, it wasn't impossible to see it coming though.
Ok. When someone says, or supports someone who says, “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
If you don't want us to call it racist what word should we use instead?
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Those with a challenged sense of equality?
Bit of a mouthful.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
Kelly, I don't know if you've been following the thread about Pastor Bill Johnson's support for Trump, but Bethel Church, of which he is leader, is based in...Redding! ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
(Assuming it's the same Redding)
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
If you don't want us to call it racist what word should we use instead?
To my mind, a worse name than "racist" is "wrong". It's just false. Illegal immigrants commit crimes at just about the same rate as citizens. It is a complete falsehood to claim that there is any difference in the level of criminality between illegal immigrants and US citizens.
If it was true that Mexico was "sending" all its crappy people to the US (how does he imagine that works? Mexican judges offering kids a choice between jail and the US?) then the way Trump talks about it would still be racist. But there isn't even any truth there.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Thanks for your post, lilb, I was finding myself insufficiently gloomy today. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
As for what we can do-- has the safety pin thing been working in the UK?
(Safety pin thing)
(By the way, great sig, Soror Magna.)
I once heard a story that Italian communists in the 1950's would engage in ostentatious displays of wealth so as to incite the downtrodden masses jealously to rebel, thus furthering the Revolution. Somehow, the safety pin jewelry reminded me of it. I'm sure there's no connection.
I'm still very sad, and have offered my spare room to select American liberals.
[ 14. November 2016, 03:00: Message edited by: simontoad ]
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
Kelly, I don't know if you've been following the thread about Pastor Bill Johnson's support for Trump, but Bethel Church, of which he is leader, is based in...Redding!
(Assuming it's the same Redding)
Doesn't shock me at all. Redding, CA is rather a redneck conclave. My brother in law was a minister in an Assembly of God church up there. The behavior of the kid in the story is sadly indicative of the general culture up there.
Which, come to think of it, is what makes the response of the school administration and the community leaders in general pretty encouraging.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
I'm astonished at the many voices on the internet right now asking people not to tell racist people they have done a racist thing. It's perplexing.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Does educating people on history work at all? This David Olusoga documentary traces black roots in Britain back to Roman times.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
I'm astonished at the many voices on the internet right now asking people not to tell racist people they have done a racist thing. It's perplexing.
I'm still trying to absorb how the 'left behind' have apparently voted in right-wing governments in the UK and US, supposedly to get new jobs, raise wages, and so on.
Wow, is this for real? I guess the racism is a sweetener, or a lubricant.
But 'angels in marble' have been around for ages, (phrase from Disraeli).
Oh fuck, groan, grumble, grind teeth, drink, more drink, go unconscious, watch TV. What else?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
I'm astonished at the many voices on the internet right now asking people not to tell racist people they have done a racist thing. It's perplexing.
I'm still trying to absorb how the 'left behind' have apparently voted in right-wing governments in the UK and US, supposedly to get new jobs, raise wages, and so on.
The right-wing parties successfully place the blame for all that is wrong on minorities, welfare claimants and public spending when bankers, mass media and corporate interests are screwing everyone over except the top one or two percent.
They are successful in this because they are successful in most things, thanks mostly to having the means to do so, like immense wealth. It doesn't make it remotely just though.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I think another factor is that the left/liberal parties have been colonized by neo-liberalism, so that, for example, Labour and the Democrats have accepted deregulation, privatization, and so on. When the crash struck, there were only shades of opinion of how to tackle it, and they all agreed on the basic neo-lib suite of policies.
I suppose the Corbyn/Sanders revolt has shown that you can oppose this. Why am I not cheered by this?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Did you see the comments? The one that said that christians will have gone to the polls prayerfully and followed what they really believed was God's will.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Unfortunately it was the devil's will.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
If you don't want us to call it racist what word should we use instead?
To my mind, a worse name than "racist" is "wrong". It's just false. Illegal immigrants commit crimes at just about the same rate as citizens. It is a complete falsehood to claim that there is any difference in the level of criminality between illegal immigrants and US citizens.
Actually there is a difference between crime rates for U.S. citizens and immigrants, and the difference is that immigrants (both legal and illegal) are actually less likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I have voted UKIP on a couple occasions as a protest, and voted Leave ... what might stop [incidents] is people like Farage and Bojo getting up and emphatically denouncing it.
This has been puzzling me a bit.
Are you essentially admitting that you voted for demagogues whose rhetoric has allowed such things to occur?
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
This has been puzzling me a bit.
Are you essentially admitting that you voted for demagogues whose rhetoric has allowed such things to occur?
There's a Hell thread on this very point if you're interested.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
It's a soightly different point - not that to vote Leave is inherently dimwitted as a protest strategy, rather an admission that there is a link between the rhetoric and the incidents. I would be interested in rolyn's reflections on that.
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
It is obvious to any one who isn't a dimwit that rhetoric will lead to action. Many of us can remember the industrial riots of the 80's and the rhetoric driving much of that.
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing. Good to hear trump has done precisely that today ---"Stop it!"-- is what he said to people doing post election harassment.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
"Stop it" is hardly adequate.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And he only said it because the interviewer kept pushing him.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
It is obvious to any one who isn't a dimwit that rhetoric will lead to action. Many of us can remember the industrial riots of the 80's and the rhetoric driving much of that.
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing. Good to hear trump has done precisely that today ---"Stop it!"-- is what he said to people doing post election harassment.
It's not enough. He needs to say it multiple times a day, every day, along with strongly-worded denouncements, until it stops. Saying it once on a tv interview isn't enough. It's show.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Just a quick update about my granddaughter. We spent the weekend with her. She is one of the most level headed young teenager I know. She goes by the motto, "When they go low, I go high."
I did take up the suggestion to report the incident to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This morning I got a response from SPLC asking for more information I gave them the website to the school. I imagine they will continue to investigate the issue. I am very impressed.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
It is obvious to any one who isn't a dimwit that rhetoric will lead to action. Many of us can remember the industrial riots of the 80's and the rhetoric driving much of that.
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing. Good to hear trump has done precisely that today ---"Stop it!"-- is what he said to people doing post election harassment.
It's not enough. He needs to say it multiple times a day, every day, along with strongly-worded denouncements, until it stops. Saying it once on a tv interview isn't enough. It's show.
Everything, everything he does and says is show.
As soon as an idiot bully reaches high office in any organsisation folks start cosying up to them. Suddenly their charm (which all bullies have, in spades) starts to work on all sorts of previous critics.
Let's see if Theresa May does the same. Here's betting she does.
Ho hum.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
It is obvious to any one who isn't a dimwit that rhetoric will lead to action. Many of us can remember the industrial riots of the 80's and the rhetoric driving much of that.
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing. Good to hear trump has done precisely that today ---"Stop it!"-- is what he said to people doing post election harassment.
To use an old phrase of my mum's - he can say what he likes until the cows come home. This is more about what he does and how he is . Words are cheap.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
It is obvious to any one who isn't a dimwit that rhetoric will lead to action. Many of us can remember the industrial riots of the 80's and the rhetoric driving much of that.
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing. Good to hear trump has done precisely that today ---"Stop it!"-- is what he said to people doing post election harassment.
He says a couple of words after being hounded to do so. He also hired a white seperatist whose livelihood has depended on racist rhetoric. So, what was his message again?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing. Good to hear trump has done precisely that today ---"Stop it!"-- is what he said to people doing post election harassment.
And of course they've all stopped it immediately.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Odds Bodkin
Apprentice
# 18663
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Posted
Bullying has always occured, but with the arrival of social media people are using occasions of bullying to present a political agenda as if such bullying has not previously occured.
Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2016
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Like I said the people at the top doing the spouting are the ones who need to do the denouncing.
And maybe the ones voting for them could do their bit by not voting for them.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Just a quick update about my granddaughter. We spent the weekend with her. She is one of the most level headed young teenager I know. She goes by the motto, "When they go low, I go high."
I did take up the suggestion to report the incident to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This morning I got a response from SPLC asking for more information I gave them the website to the school. I imagine they will continue to investigate the issue. I am very impressed.
Good to hear.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Exactly. We do seem to have selective memories as to how nice everything used to be. Anyone would think the world was one great continuum of sweetness, light, love and fluffies until the big bad Donald dropped out of the sky.
Given that most perceive the States as a place awash will guns and a proportion of individuals inclined to use them, then it seems, from where I'm stood, that the fallout of from this highly contentious Election is strangely, (and thankfully), reasonably mild.
Reply to OB
[ 20. November 2016, 09:20: Message edited by: rolyn ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Exactly. We do seem to have selective memories as to how nice everything used to be. Anyone would think the world was one great continuum of sweetness, light, love and fluffies until the big bad Donald dropped out of the sky.
Given that most perceive the States as a place awash will guns and a proportion of individuals inclined to use them, then it seems, from where I'm stood, that the fallout of from this highly contentious Election is strangely, (and thankfully), reasonably mild.
Reply to OB
That's because the lunatics with guns were on the winning side. Many of them now retrieving their white hoods from the back of the closet.
[ 20. November 2016, 09:26: Message edited by: Arethosemyfeet ]
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Exactly. We do seem to have selective memories as to how nice everything used to be. Anyone would think the world was one great continuum of sweetness, light, love and fluffies until the big bad Donald dropped out of the sky.
I don't think anyone was thinking that. The Donald's election has simply given a green light and a voice to anyone who wants to make it unequivocally clear that they aren't prepared to tolerate people who look different or think differently. I understand the need for increased anti-terrorism measures in this day and age but rounding up every single member of an entire community to register them and have them on a list is not the way to do it. Far more members of the Muslim community are glad to be good American citizens than not.
I mean substitute "Jews" for "Muslims" and maybe you can see why people are worried?
quote:
Given that most perceive the States as a place awash will guns and a proportion of individuals inclined to use them, then it seems, from where I'm stood, that the fallout of from this highly contentious Election is strangely, (and thankfully), reasonably mild.
I don't think you can have many friends in America Rolyn. I've had some in tears over this and others worried sick about what's going to happen. I don't think you can have been reading or watching the news either and haven't seen the protests or riots. I don't remember that happening over the election of any other president, surely that says something.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Exactly. We do seem to have selective memories as to how nice everything used to be. Anyone would think the world was one great continuum of sweetness, light, love and fluffies until the big bad Donald dropped out of the sky.
Just like Brexit, the fallout is yet to be seen.
But it's true that Brexit, the Trump nightmare, possible far right French president helps us remember that life and history don't always progress. That history doesn't run in a straight line towards enlightenment, equality, freedom and tolerance. We can just as easily regress - it's happening now before our eyes.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I mean substitute "Jews" for "Muslims" and maybe you can see why people are worried?
One of T's surrogates/spokespeople indicated that the WWII internment camps for Japanese Americans might be food for thought. The Fox news interviewer pushed him to clarify and consider what he said. He backed off, then came back to the same idea. I was impressed that a *Fox* interviewer did that!
Survivors of the internment camps, like George Takei (Sulu, on "Star Trek"), have spoken out.
quote:
quote:
Given that most perceive the States as a place awash will guns and a proportion of individuals inclined to use them, then it seems, from where I'm stood, that the fallout of from this highly contentious Election is strangely, (and thankfully), reasonably mild.
I don't think you can have many friends in America Rolyn. I've had some in tears over this and others worried sick about what's going to happen. I don't think you can have been reading or watching the news either and haven't seen the protests or riots. I don't remember that happening over the election of any other president, surely that says something.
Hell, yes, people are terrified. The night of the election, people actually crashed the official website for Canadian immigration info. There are children who are freaking out, afraid they'll be rounded up and sent away. 3 related suicides have been mentioned on the boards--IIRC, 2 were trans folks, and 1 was dependent on Obamacare for her life.
Muslims are being targeted, as well as anyone that might be perceived as Muslim. Any sort of head scarf can be interpreted as a hijab, and has been. I heard a young Muslim woman on NPR. She was stressed and conflicted about continuing to wear the hijab. (IIRC, someone may have accosted her.) She finally decided to switch to wearing a hat, for now. Even her mom told her to put aside the hijab.
There've been all sorts of incidents in public/state schools. (Don't know about private.) Students bullying each other over religion, ethnicity, immigration status--and teachers getting in on the act. Here in California, IIRC, someone designated school urinals as for "whites" or "coloreds". This was hand-written on the porcelain, removed, and re-written.
Plus creeps who think they now have official sanction to harass women.
A whole lot of bad things can be done without guns.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
One more thing. Maybe imagine if Theresa May finally caved in over the Brexit thing and agreed to hold a snap election. (It's just an analogy, not a real-world example.) And the next morning the country woke up to find that Ukip had pipped the others to the post and Nigel Farage had become the next prime minister. This is the equivalent.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
One more thing. Maybe imagine if Theresa May finally caved in over the Brexit thing and agreed to hold a snap election. (It's just an analogy, not a real-world example.) And the next morning the country woke up to find that Ukip had pipped the others to the post and Nigel Farage had become the next prime minister. This is the equivalent.
It's actually worse - at least Farage pays lip service to the idea of rejecting out-and-out Nazis, with UKIP banning former BNP members from their ranks. Trump welcomes the Klan with open arms. It's the equivalent of Farage being proud that Combat 18 are supporting him.
[ 20. November 2016, 15:25: Message edited by: Arethosemyfeet ]
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Odds Bodkin:
Bullying has always occured, but with the arrival of social media people are using occasions of bullying to present a political agenda as if such bullying has not previously occured.
Yeah, no. Bullying has always occurred. However the internet, and social media in particular, has allowed bullies to target more people, to do so more anonymously and with fewer consequences. Therefore bullying has increased. And bullies can find target groups they did not know existed. If anyone is using social media for an "agenda". it is bullies.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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gorpo
Shipmate
# 17025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Conspicuously absent from the hearsay accounts thus far is any mention/discussion of this...
or this...
It´s the same media that failed miserably to predict the outcome of the election, that now claims to know exactly what is going to happen. What did you expect. This kind of people want to criminalize contrary opinions. They are fascists.
Posts: 247 | From: Brazil | Registered: Apr 2012
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Conspicuously absent from the hearsay accounts thus far is any mention/discussion of this...
or this...
It´s the same media that failed miserably to predict the outcome of the election, that now claims to know exactly what is going to happen. What did you expect. This kind of people want to criminalize contrary opinions. They are fascists.
I defy you to come up with actual evidence that mainstream journalists want to criminalize contrary opinions, especially in the US.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Going to the issue of interment camps. I am from the West Coast There was an interment camp less than 20 miles from where I grew up. While I was born in 49, I had long been aware of the existence of the camp. The camp was the Minidoka Relocation Center. I have visited it a number of times over the years.
At its peak it had around 9,000 internees (actually prisoners) Most of the residents were from the Seattle area. Think of it. Living in an area that was lush and green with moderate temperatures and all of the sudden being forced to live on a barren hill in the middle of a desert, in poorly insulated barracks where the winters were bitter.
Yet these people made the best of it. They developed a thriving community, and victory gardens, clubs, Boy and Girl Scout troops. But when the war ended the community vanished practically overnight.
For the longest time there were just a few remnants of the camp. A couple of long barracks. Some concrete slabs where some of the main buildings stood and a few pieces of rusted farm equipment and collapsed root cellars.
Now, the US Park Service is working to preserve what remains. The last time I was there, they built a replica of a guard tower and have restrung the barbed wire fence that used to surround the camp. They now have a walking trail taking people to some sites within the camp. The remains of the Commanding Officer building (where the current parking lot is) to a hollowed out area which was flooded so the residents could have a very primitive swimming whole, to some collapsed root cellars, to two of the remaining barracks, to the old fire station and then back to the parking lot. Interspersed throughout the walk are little interpretative markers.
While I had long known of the existence of the camp, my wife, who was from the East Coast, had never heard of them. She did not know of them until we had been married about three years and were moving to California. We went past the remnants of the Manzinar Camp out in the middle of nowhere. She had wondered what it was and I told her it had been an internment camp.
She was scandalized. I was surprised she had never heard of the internment camps
While Trump still maintains he wants to register all Muslims, we are very concerned he might want to set up similar camps people who have come from the middle east and their families. Could some of these same camps may be reinstated? Hell no, if I have any say in the matter.
I know if he goes ahead with the registration, I will be one of the first in my community to register, though I am not Muslim.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And there were the Aleut camps, too, up in Alaska, for the Aleut indigenous people. I gather those camps were even worse than the ones for Japanese Americans.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Gramps, thanks for that post. The state fair grounds here in Puyallup was used as a relocation center, and I have a book with photographs of the rows and rows of perfectly aligned tents, filled with Americans of Japanese ancestry waiting to be sent further inland to the permanent camps. The fairgrounds are once again used for the annual fair, as well as other festive events (and a gun show). It's less than 5 miles from my home.
My first church in Chicago was a United Methodist church peopled almost entirely with former detainees and their offspring. My best buddy when I was at school there was of Japanese descent, although he didn't go to that church. His father was an internee.
It blows me away that there could be people who don't know about the camps. No blame to your wife of course, but to the schools that should have taught her our history. In all its shameful, rotten unglory.
GK, many Alaska natives became Orthodox AFTER the Sale -- because they could see how much differently the Orthodox missionaries treated them compared to the Americans. Much of the internment there was to force "modernization" on the native peoples, in part by kidnapping their children and keeping them apart. (The book I Heard the Owl Call My Name almost admits this treatment, although they whitewash it a good bit, and IIRC it's in British Columbia not Alaska.)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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