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Originally posted by Golden Key:
{{{{{{anoesis}}}}}}

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I'm not a parent, so I don't have any tried and true tips for you.

Just a couple of general ideas: Do you know other parents with whom you can safely vent and commiserate? *Not* pushing you away. But it can help a lot to have someone nearby. Maybe a parental support group, or a therapist?

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• Don't raise your voice except on very rare occasions - I'm talking twice, maybe thrice, a year. Instead, as the noise becomes more extreme speak in ever quieter tones: this particularly applies to requests for things like dirty laundry, what they'd like for lunch (if you offer choice) and instructions to clear away toys, etc.
• If they can read print out instructions on things like toy clearing, and give a suitable penalty that will be applied if the task isn't completed.
• Routine: meals at the table at set times and no snacks; activities on set days at set times; strict bedtime and lights-out.
• Keep rewards to a minimum why offer praise and/or a treat just for the base-line minimum of good behaviour? Keep praise and treats for the important things.
• When your children tell you they hate you (and they will) don't lose it: say they are entitled to their opinion and carry on without comment.
• Assure them that you love them but point out that it is possible to love someone while not liking the way they behave.
• DON'T THREATEN: PROMISE AND KEEP YOUR PROMISES This applies as much to "If you behave I'll give you an apple" as it does to "If you don't bath you won't be allowed to go to the birthday party".

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Originally posted by Wesley J:
That sounds interesting, Boogie.

I've aready briefly looked some of the outline.

But, for school purposes: pray tell - what consequence could a '3' have for one of your 'stroppy 11 y olds' at your place of work?

Thanks for elucidating.

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Stroppy 11 year olds don't particularly care what the teacher thinks of them, they are - by and large - looking for the approval of their peers.

They especially don't care what a supply art teacher who only comes in one day a week thinks of them.

We rarely get to '3' because they hate the consequences of it.

On the first 3 they sit by me, where none of the class can see them, for ten minutes. If they get to a second 3 - which usually only happens at the beginning of a year when they don't know me - they are sent out of the room to stand outside a (glass) door facing outwards where they can't see their peers but I can see them, and there's a chance the headteacher may walk past and ask why. On the rare occasions we get to a third 3 I send them to another class, which they hate.

I have a good system of rewards. A raffle at the end of the day, 3 prizes - things kids like. A ball, a stretchy man etc. It costs me very little. I give out raffle tickets liberally for good behaviour (not good work, I expect that, just for good behaviour). It takes advantage of the natural human (and other mammals) instinct to gamble and work harder for intermittent rewards. I give every child two raffle tickets at the beginning of the lesson. Any child who gets to a 3 is disqualified from the raffle.

They get lots of raffle tickets for quick compliance to easy instructions eg "put your paintbrushes down and look this way". It takes seconds to comply with that so all eyes should be on me as soon as I've said it. Raffle tickets go to the fastest, but not every time.

This quick, whole class response is very impressive when visitors come in to the room to speak to the class

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Originally posted by Boogie:
They get lots of raffle tickets for quick compliance to easy instructions eg "put your paintbrushes down and look this way". It takes seconds to comply with that so all eyes should be on me as soon as I've said it. Raffle tickets go to the fastest, but not every time.

This quick, whole class response is very impressive when visitors come in to the room to speak to the class

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• no pudding for anyone not hungry enough to eat a main course;
• unless you've tried it you can't say you don't like it;
• if you really don't like the cooked meal, there is a slice of bread and peanut butter

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I also had similar tactics about food and meal times:

• no pudding for anyone not hungry enough to eat a main course;
• unless you've tried it you can't say you don't like it;
• if you really don't like the cooked meal, there is a slice of bread and peanut butter

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That will be very useful when my kid is older. But right now, age 1, he'd live on peanut butter.

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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.

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Originally posted by Ariel:

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Originally posted by Boogie:
They get lots of raffle tickets for quick compliance to easy instructions eg "put your paintbrushes down and look this way". It takes seconds to comply with that so all eyes should be on me as soon as I've said it. Raffle tickets go to the fastest, but not every time.

This quick, whole class response is very impressive when visitors come in to the room to speak to the class

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Out of interest how does that fit with your colleagues' approaches - do they find that the kids expect some kind of incentive/reward in class and behave less well with teachers who don't give one? Or do the kids understand that this is just something that you as a visiting, one-day-a-week person are doing of your own accord?

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Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
On one appalling day, when they were all younger, i once changed the clock thus ensuring that at least bedtime arrived earlier that day.

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I assume that was before clocks could be found on every appliance in the house.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
Re. the shouty thing. As a former teacher, I developed a technique with a class of 12 year olds who were somewhat on the wild side! I discovered quickly that shouting just made them more anxious and unsettled - but equally, that if I wasn't shouting, they didn't think I was serious in my instructions.

So I would ask them, pleasantly and clearly, to do something: to read quietly, for example. When I was ignored, or when the instruction was only briefly obeyed, I would stop everything and call them to attention, and say something like this: "Now, you are all making a very interesting mistake. You think, because I asked nicely, that I didn't really mean it. But I did mean it. I really do want you to read quietly, and you all understood what I said. Now, if you would rather that I shouted, then I can shout. But I don't think you really want that. So I will say it again, and I'll say it nicely: I want you to read quietly. Is that clear?"

Over time, and in combination with a whole lot of other techniques of course, this really did work.

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
Re. the shouty thing. As a former teacher, I developed a technique with a class of 12 year olds who were somewhat on the wild side! I discovered quickly that shouting just made them more anxious and unsettled - but equally, that if I wasn't shouting, they didn't think I was serious in my instructions.

So I would ask them, pleasantly and clearly, to do something: to read quietly, for example. When I was ignored, or when the instruction was only briefly obeyed, I would stop everything and call them to attention, and say something like this: "Now, you are all making a very interesting mistake. You think, because I asked nicely, that I didn't really mean it. But I did mean it. I really do want you to read quietly, and you all understood what I said. Now, if you would rather that I shouted, then I can shout. But I don't think you really want that. So I will say it again, and I'll say it nicely: I want you to read quietly. Is that clear?"

Over time, and in combination with a whole lot of other techniques of course, this really did work.

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Holy cow, I've made this same exact speech before.

Last week I was in a class full of kids 18 given to shouting over each other ( and the teacher) and after two days of routine stuff ( I will stop reading the book till it's quiet, I won't pass the milk till you ask in a nice voice, I can't hear anyone when everyone talks at once) I realized I needed to up my game. So, just before reading a call and response type book, I put up my hand and went "WAIT, LISTEN!"

The kids fell silent, wildly curious as to what I wanted them to listen to. I then whispered, " Do you hear how quiet it is?"
I asked them to listen for noises when n the room, and noises out of the room, and had them whisper to me in response to my question. I then asked if the room felt different when it was quiet, and the first response I got was "It feels better."
Yes, I said, people need quiet once in a while because it makes them feel better, calmer. We then read the book together whispering. (As I said, there was a group response involved in the story.)

Jacobsen, boy I love that long post above. Agree with every word.

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Jemima! I meant Jemima!

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I'm so glad you clarified that, I searched for ages for the mythical Jacobsen post and thought I was losing my marbles. Still think I am, but not as acutely

Huia

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

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Originally posted by Boogie:
A wise Mum!

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Originally posted by jacobsen:

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Originally posted by Boogie:
A wise Mum!

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I was not given permission to read this blog. Any way of unlocking it?

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She'll unlock it for you after you clean the kitchen.


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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf