homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Dead Horses   » Homosexuality and Christianity (Page 17)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  ...  92  93  94 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Homosexuality and Christianity
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, it's the middle of the afternoon and, upon checking the active threads today, there are eight other active threads primarily discussing homosexuality (besides this one), none of which are in the Dead Horses section.

Arguments ranging from "The Bible Says Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve!" to "We attend a Full-Gospel Traditional Lesbian Episcopal Reformed Unitarian Society of Religious Friends Chapel in Croyden where we speak in tongues every Sunday" rage unchecked all over Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and even Gehenna (a new section devoted primarilly to temporary tattoos and hair-dye).

I have no personal motivation or vested interest in having a position, building up a body of knowledge or trying to get to the bottom of the whole homosexuality issue itself and the issues peripheral to gaiety in general. Because of this, I find myself feeling almost left out of things on this Ship Of Fools today, unless I take the subject up as a hobby, which I don't think I'll do. I live in a part of the world where same-sex couples can and do marry, can claim full spousal healthcare benefits and so on.

I have a confession to make:
"I'm straight, I'm here, I'm a virgin by choice (and disciplined, strict adherence to a grueling regimen of daily masturbation) and I'm proud of it all! It's who I am!"

Isn't there any discussion, or any role models on the ship that are relevant to me and my (admittedly unusual) chosen lifestyle? Remember, I have to learn how to commune on a very deep and trusting level with a whole different gender before I can be part of a "couple".

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

 - Posted      Profile for ChastMastr   Author's homepage   Email ChastMastr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
and even Gehenna (a new section devoted primarilly to temporary tattoos... )

I got it! I got it!!! [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

David
unnervingly proud of this

--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

 - Posted      Profile for Erin   Author's homepage   Email Erin       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
TWP is trying to pick up het chicks on a thread about homosexuality!! [Big Grin]

--------------------
Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

 - Posted      Profile for ChastMastr   Author's homepage   Email ChastMastr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
TWP is trying to pick up het chicks on a thread about homosexuality!! [Big Grin]

This, on the other hand, I actually didn't get, thus absolutely ensuring I win the 2003 "Captain Oblivious" award. [Eek!] [Embarrassed]

--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

 - Posted      Profile for ken     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
"I'm straight, I'm here, I'm a virgin by choice (and disciplined, strict adherence to a grueling regimen of daily masturbation) and I'm proud of it all! It's who I am!"

Isn't there any discussion, or any role models on the ship that are relevant to me and my (admittedly unusual) chosen lifestyle?

"admittedly unusual"???? Leave out the phrase "by choice" and it describes half the men on the planet.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I was bored and felt like "coming out."

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022

 - Posted      Profile for Merseymike   Email Merseymike   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
So you want a support group for wankers?

--------------------
Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced

Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

 - Posted      Profile for ChastMastr   Author's homepage   Email ChastMastr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm still proud of getting the "henna" pun. [Yipee]

--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Laura
General nuisance
# 10

 - Posted      Profile for Laura   Email Laura   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Arguments ranging from "The Bible Says Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve!" to "We attend a Full-Gospel Traditional Lesbian Episcopal Reformed Unitarian Society of Religious Friends Chapel in Croyden where we speak in tongues every Sunday" rage unchecked all over Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and even Gehenna (a new section devoted primarilly to temporary tattoos and hair-dye).

I knew there was some reason I've been feeling vaguely ... suicidal.

--------------------
Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chimakwa
Shipmate
# 3413

 - Posted      Profile for Chimakwa   Author's homepage   Email Chimakwa   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yeah.. there was a time that discussion of Christianity and homosexuality would have been interesting, like maybe 4 or 5 days ago -- being as how I'm, y'know, one of Them. But I think I'm reaching my saturation point! [Ultra confused]

Who'da thunk it?

--------------------
athanasia (n): to induce death by means of Quicunque Vult
(Shipmate Formerly Known as Anglicub)

Posts: 249 | From: Philadelphia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

 - Posted      Profile for ChastMastr   Author's homepage   Email ChastMastr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglicub:
being as how I'm, y'know, one of Them.

You're a giant ant from a 1950s movie? [Confused]

David
absolutely loves using that line whenever someone refers to "Them"

--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

 - Posted      Profile for Ariel   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
TWP is trying to pick up het chicks on a thread about homosexuality!! [Big Grin]

This, on the other hand, I actually didn't get, thus absolutely ensuring I win the 2003 "Captain Oblivious" award. [Eek!] [Embarrassed]
Neither did I. If that's an example of a chat-up line, there is no hope for future generations.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

 - Posted      Profile for ken     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
So you want a support group for wankers?

A few days ago I was wandering around some mildly derelict council estate in London, as one does, when I saw graffiti, I guess about a schoolteacher, that said something like: "Mr. X is a fucking cunt wanker tosser".

And I thought "Lucky Mr. X".

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Some women's expectations for male chat-up lines are so low, that any man who publicly admits to being single (and not bent upon staying that way) is seen as delivering a pick up line or come on. Mediocrity is the fruit borne of low expectations.

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
Isn't there any discussion, or any role models on the ship that are relevant to me and my (admittedly unusual) chosen lifestyle? Remember, I have to learn how to commune on a very deep and trusting level with a whole different gender before I can be part of a "couple".

You're asking this question on a thread called "Homosexuality and Christianity"?

One suggestion: if you don't see a thread relevant to you, start one.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
You're asking this question on a thread called "Homosexuality and Christianity"?
Yes I am. It's more of a rhetorial question, or complaint. I got sick of the maximum overgaeification of the message board of late, feeling it had gotten rather one-note and tedious. I haven't read my bible for a week or so (which I should do, as that always raises more questions than it answers) so I didn't have any ideas for new threads and was really hoping other people would. Rather than start a nasty, stupid and negative thread called I'm sick of all of this gay talk. I'm not gay and it doesn't interest me much or apply to me either, I thought, "Why not go where the maximum number of gay people are most likely to be reading and just let them know how I feel. They can do what they like, but I just want my own personal feelings to be heard and then move on. If others feel the same way, this may be a relief to them." Going to the source, as it were.

I realize that the news lately is chock-full of stuff that absolutely doesn't relate to me in any way, and I know that I live in a part of the world where same-sex marriage is recognized making the whole question less pressing where I live, but I was just venting a bit. I do believe there is such a thing as too much of almost anything.

I'm really glad that we have the Ship, where we can talk about almost whatever we want. I just tend to hope that some people come up with topics other than eight different ones about Christian's Sexual Orientations, and that all of the threads about "what is marriage?" and "do you need the church to marry?" would not be overrun with gay issues only, or that some of the discussions on more or less the same exact subject could be grouped. I could swear I saw at least three different threads about Gene the Gay Bishop in America. "Why three?" is my question? And also "Is his being gay such a huge deal?" Not for me it isn't. Carry on sharing. Also, go forth and make new and interesting threads on a broad range of topics so I'll have to look things up in my bible again.

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

 - Posted      Profile for Freddy   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Now that we have a lull in the conversation ( [Snigger] ) I thought I would ask a question that I have been wondering about.

Is the percentage of the population that engages in homosexual sex relatively static, or does it change according to different factors?

If it does change, what are the factors that might cause this? And is this conjecture, or are there any kind of reliable statistics about it? Is it known to change from one country and culture to another, or is it relatively uniform world-wide?

Maybe this should be a separate thread, since it really has nothing to do with Christianity, and has nothing to do with judging the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. On the other hand, maybe there are already enough threads in Purg on this topic... [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg

Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

 - Posted      Profile for ken     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:

Is the percentage of the population that engages in homosexual sex relatively static, or does it change according to different factors?

Must change cos seems to be more in male-only places than in general society

quote:

If it does change, what are the factors that might cause this?

No-one knows


quote:
And is this conjecture, or are there any kind of reliable statistics about it?

Conjecture. No-one gathers reliable statistics. For example people estimatge proportion of gay men in Britain anywhere from below 1% to well over 10%. All nonsense.

(As my own home town is the most gay-friendly, or at least the least gay-unfriendly city in Britain, probably in Europe, and lots of gay men have moved there to live, and the total number of out gay men in the not-very-big city is certainly not very much more than 10%, the higher figures are certainly nonsense)

quote:
Is it known to change from one country and culture to another, or is it relatively uniform world-wide?
No-one knows, partly because there are places they kill you if they think you are buggering men, so who can gather figures?
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
geelongboys
Apprentice
# 4870

 - Posted      Profile for geelongboys   Author's homepage   Email geelongboys   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This is an email I sent through to...well...you'll guess pretty quickly.

FTR......I am a same-sex attracted Christian..who believes homosexuality is sinful...but doesn't think it's THE sin...(even though I slip and indulge from time to time) and believe I'm justified by faith in Christ and God's grace like fellow sinners. [Smile]

"Hi.

I wrote to you at godhatesfags.com a while back with some questions that I felt didn't fit within your FAQ. Since I've been doing some more thinking and studying on this after my last email, I thought I'd fire off to you a more broadly outlined query.

I was impressed with Fred Phelps' admission that at one point in his life...he realised that he was a sinner, who needed to totally rely on the grace and mercy of God for salvation, through Christ's redemptive work on the cross. I think just about every Christian minister in the world would say....that is the way of salvation.

An assertion you have made repeatedly is that 'fags' will not find salvation because they are ...'dogs....swine....hogs...abominations'..etc ..whom God hates ..and therefore He will not turn their hearts around so they can be saved. Repentence from sin being the evidence that God has redeemed an individual.

So what happens to people who profess to be saved....and yet continue to engage in the sins of hubris...and reviling? These seem to be little understood concepts in Christian circles....but the bible is exceedingly clear about their sinfulness...and their seriousness.

The sin of hubris (translated in English as 'pride' http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace121.html) is described in proverbs 16:5 as 'an abomination to the Lord ...which will not go unpunished.' The last person to see their pride is usually the person committing the sin of pride ...........because of their pride. There is a pride which has become popularly known as 'gay pride'....but that same hubris is unfortunately found in many others who can not humbly (opposite of pride)...accept that they are just as sinful as the most sinful.. (The apostle Paul can not be described as being proud...or having hubris....because he described himself as the Chief of Sinners...after conversion to Christ). Yet the ministry of Westboro Baptist church not only tolerates this hubris/pride within it own ranks.....but embraces the sin outright.

Then there is the matter of reviling. (often confused with the word 'revellers'). 'Revilers' appears in the same sentence...(not the same book...or the same chapter but the same sentence) as the prohibition on homosexual behaviour in 1 cor 6. The text is clear. As with homosexuals...revilers (verbal abusers)...will not inherit the kingdom of heaven....apart from those who were revilers...and have been washed ..sanctified and justified through Christ Jesus.

I have to question whether there has been a true repentence of the sin of reviling....given the routine verbal abuse dished out by your church to friends and foes alike. As part of the church's denunciation of sin ..in all its forms...I think it would be helpful for your church to tell the truth as it needs to be told....that reviling is sinful behaviour....which must be sincerely repented. Do not tolerate it in your own lives...or the lives of others. Revilers...and reviler-enablers...will not see the kingdom of heaven. Please embrace this scriptural truth.

I realise.....true repentance of the sins of hubris/pride and reviling may impact severely on your ministry activities. But that is part of the cost that must be counted in following Christ.

The main question I ask Fred Phelps is....'In 1946/47...when you (genuinely I believe) confessed to being a sinner...and renounced and repented of sin........did that include the sins of hubris/pride and reviling?. If not, like other sinners, you can always make a fresh start through the grace and mercy of God.....through the one who paid the price for the sins of pride and reviling, Jesus Christ.'"
----------

Hmmmm......suppose I should have added...'so there!'...somewhere in the email...oh well.

--------------------
Love the sinner, hate your own sin.

Posts: 13 | From: Perth,Australia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
[Not worthy!] [Not worthy!] Well Done! [Not worthy!] [Not worthy!]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lurker McLurker™

Ship's stowaway
# 1384

 - Posted      Profile for Lurker McLurker™     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Welcome to the boards, GLB.

--------------------
Just War Theory- a perversion of morality?

Posts: 5661 | From: Raxacoricofallapatorius | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

 - Posted      Profile for Janine   Email Janine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Nicely put, GLB.

Perhaps more nicely than many would have put it.

It may be too subtle for the recipient(s).

But it may actually get you a real reply, too.

--------------------
I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
..and I love your sig.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
TonyK

Host Emeritus
# 35

 - Posted      Profile for TonyK   Email TonyK   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
geelongboys - may I extend the customary hostly welcome aboard our Ship (noting with regret that I have been beaten by other shipmates [Embarrassed] )

And thank you for a thought-provoking post.

I'm sure you will have read them as part of the joining procedure, but can I remind you about the Ship's own Ten Commandments (link on the left) and the Guidelines which you will find as you enter each Board.

Other than that it only remains for me to wish you 'Bon voyage' - oh, and by the way, to give you your (virtual) mop and bucket enabling you to carry out your apprenticeship duties of swabbing the (virtual) decks!

--------------------
Yours aye ... TonyK

Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

 - Posted      Profile for ChastMastr   Author's homepage   Email ChastMastr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Welcome, geelong! [Yipee]

David

--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
iGeek.*

Resident alien
# 3207

 - Posted      Profile for iGeek.*   Author's homepage         Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
...I got sick of the maximum overgaeification of the message board of late, feeling it had gotten rather one-note and tedious. ... Rather than start a nasty, stupid and negative thread called I'm sick of all of this gay talk. I'm not gay and it doesn't interest me much or apply to me either, I thought, "Why not go where the maximum number of gay people are most likely to be reading and just let them know how I feel.

"Welcome to my world". I'm sick of all this het talk (and ubiquitous, *public* het expressions of opposite gender affection). I'm not het it doesn't interest me much or apply to me either. Alas, I'm queer in a one-note, tedious world of het-ness which *doesn't* come and go; there is no respite.

(feeling petty and petulant today)

[ 18. August 2003, 21:54: Message edited by: iGeek ]

--------------------
.sig on holiday

Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I understand completely. The fact that people relate to and are helped by talk that doesn't interest one is absolutely no consolation, is it?

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Posted by That Wikkid Person:
I thought, "Why not go where the maximum number of gay people are most likely to be reading and just let them know how I feel.

Thank-you for sharing.

In return, let me suggest you don't bother reading threads you're not interested in. I don't. I may groan inwardly when I see that they've gone to four or five pages, but I don't have to suffer through them. Cuts down on my annoyance level considerably.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

 - Posted      Profile for ChastMastr   Author's homepage   Email ChastMastr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
I just want my own personal feelings to be heard and then move on

May I suggest that this attitude is not really conducive to real discussion, regardless of topic?

--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I can't seem to help myself. I've had no job all summer (out of work teacher) and, having no cable(or antenna) TV, I've found reading heaping gobs of other people's ideas on spiritual matters to be a fairly good use of my time. I particularly like to read the opinions of people who I am likely to disagree with, just so I really understand that point of view, rather than walk around feeling I understand it when I don't. I also like to actually give other people a chance to change my mind about things.

Sometimes I've gotten a bit silly on the boards. Going on this thread and complaining about "too much talk about gay stuff and I'm not gay" was pretty silly. It amused me and took some of the sting out of the strong feeling I was getting that the Boards were no longer "for people like me." I'm sorry that it may have annoyed some people (or made them wonder what was wrong with me.)

I really didn't want to start a "I'm sick of all of this gay talk" thread, but wanted to say "We're really beating this dead horse more than is necessary all over Heaven, Hell and Purgatory rather than just in Dead Horses" to people who were into the discussion instead. A host told me to go start a "I'm sick of all of this gay talk" thread, so I started a "Do we talk too much about gay issues on Ship of Fools? Discuss..." thread purely as a joke, believing people would come on and say "Very funny, but I'm not falling for that" and now it's getting more action than this (real, serious) one, mostly with gay Christians having a lot of fun on there and joking around and stuff.

I am extremely relieved whenever I see a sense of humour being used while discussing deeply serious issues like this. I think it's a sign of character and sanity. (I am, of course, open to the idea that I personally have an infantile sense of humour) Is there room for more than one Ship's Fool?

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
kevb
Apprentice
# 4691

 - Posted      Profile for kevb   Email kevb   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Ha bloody ha mate, thanks for the last message though and a big welcome back [Yipee]
Posts: 17 | From: devon | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:

Originally posted by Chastmstr:

May I suggest that this attitude is not really conducive to real discussion, regardless of topic?

Absolutely. But, you see, I didn't want a "real discussion" of my own personal feelings (that I was losing interest in the "Gay Church Officials" discussions running rampant) thinking people had more important things to discuss. Some things are better to discuss, and others just to share.

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Wikkid Person, if you start an "Out of work teacher with no cable" thread, I promise I won't read it. Even if it goes to six pages.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's a deal!

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
I understand completely. The fact that people relate to and are helped by talk that doesn't interest one is absolutely no consolation, is it?

We've been warned repeatedly about using the Ship as therapy. You want to relate and be helped? Join an encounter group.

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
We've been warned repeatedly about using the Ship as therapy.
Wasn't. Was complaining that, even though many people were no doubt "relating to" 15 threads about Gay Bishops, I was bored and tired of wading through it all to find threads I wanted to read. I thought it should be grouped under a thread or two, or go into the Dead Horses thread designed for the topic. No longer a problem, so why worry?

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194

 - Posted      Profile for Rowen   Email Rowen   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Ok, totally different tangent..... My denomination in Oz is dealing with its recently-passed legislation which permits, under certain circumstances, the ordination of homosexual people. You can read more about this on my own church's website .

Anyway, we have been propelled into crises mode- and at a meeting yesterday, where regional ministers shared resources, someone mentioned this - an interesting biblical discussion site.

It is a surprisingly good overview of the homosexual biblical position from both ends of the spectrum, and as such, I offer it here for your interest.

--------------------
"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...

Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
jesusfreak
Apprentice
# 4890

 - Posted      Profile for jesusfreak     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Hi, I really don't mean to be argumentative or seem to be on a personal crusade because I know that's against the rules, but on the whole subject of homosexuality and Christianity I don't understand how anyone who believes the Bible to be God's word and has genuine faith in Him can think that it's ok be gay. It states SO many times in the Old and New Testaments that that is not the way He intended us to live and that it's detestable to Him. I'm not saying that it's any worse than sex before marriage or any other thing that we do against what God wants but I just don't see how people can justify it.
God Bless, with Love JC Freak XXX

Posts: 1 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Louise
Shipmate
# 30

 - Posted      Profile for Louise   Email Louise   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
If you are posting to this thread then you are supposed to have read through it from the beginning - long though it is.

The question of the interpretation and significance of the very few references to homosexual acts in the Bible has been addressed quite thoroughly on this thread. If you have read the thread from the beginning, then can you quote from these arguments and say what you find unsatisfactory about them?

If you have read this thread right through and still can't see why other Christians might disagree with your point of view then that probably says more about you than it says about the question under discussion.

L.

--------------------
Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.

Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

 - Posted      Profile for Robert Armin     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
jesusfreak, welcome to the ship. I hope you stay around and get the feel for the way the place works.

You might want to read all of this thread (long though it is) as it would answer many of your questions. However, in brief, there are not lots of references in the OT and NT on homosexuality - there are seven small verses, which makes it a very minor topic in the Bible.

On these boards we have christians who:

- take the Bible seriously and feel that homosexuality is wrong

- take the Bible seriously, feel that those verses are not as simple as they first look, and on the basis of careful exegesis believe homosexuality is not condemned

- take the Bible seriously, feel that it is culturally conditioned, and that modern understanding of sexuality is very important here

- feel that the Bible is not particuarly relevant on this issue.

All of the above positions are held by sincere christians, and you will find all of them expalined in careful detail over the last 17 pages. Have fun reading!

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jesusfreak:
Hi, I really don't mean to be argumentative or seem to be on a personal crusade because I know that's against the rules, but on the whole subject of homosexuality and Christianity I don't understand how anyone who believes the Bible to be God's word and has genuine faith in Him can think that it's ok be gay.

OK. I thought I was a gay Christian. But after reading your post I'll go put a bullet through my brain. Feel better?

Oh...and welcome to the Ship.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

 - Posted      Profile for Erin   Author's homepage   Email Erin       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jesusfreak:
Hi, I really don't mean to be argumentative or seem to be on a personal crusade because I know that's against the rules, but on the whole subject of homosexuality and Christianity I don't understand how anyone who believes the Bible to be God's word and has genuine faith in Him can think that it's ok be gay. It states SO many times in the Old and New Testaments that that is not the way He intended us to live and that it's detestable to Him. I'm not saying that it's any worse than sex before marriage or any other thing that we do against what God wants but I just don't see how people can justify it.
God Bless, with Love JC Freak XXX

My God! You're right! If only I had heard this before!

Oh wait. I have. Fifteen billion fucking times.

--------------------
Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

 - Posted      Profile for Janine   Email Janine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm a believer in Bible-based faith. Practically an inerrantist. Yet I can't justify 3/4 of what I do, say, think, feel.

I couldn't care less about that inability, in most instances. God probably feels the same way.

And in the areas where I still wrestle - I trust God to be big enough and strong enough to wait for me to learn what He wants me to learn.

He loves me. That means he will wait and watch for me to come home - and run to hug me or schmack me on the head, whichever I need.

--------------------
I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TonyK

Host Emeritus
# 35

 - Posted      Profile for TonyK   Email TonyK   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Jesusfreak - it seems a bit pointless for me to extend the customary Hostly welcome to you after you have attracted the attention of one very senior and several relatively senior Shipmates.

But I guess I'd better do so.

Could I draw your attention to both the Ship's 10 Commandments (link on the left) and also the Guidelines you will find when entering each Board. It would seem from your initial post that you have read the 10Cs, but I would earnestly request that you do so again - if only to understand why you have so quickly upset people.

Starting a post by saying that you 'really don't mean to be argumentative or seem to be on a personal crusade' and promptly starting to do the latter doesn't help.

Crusading is a definite no-no: argument is encouraged, provided that it is closer to the 'discussion' end of the spectrum rather than the 'violence' end!

Picking up points and discussing them and arguing your case is positively encouraged on board; making or repeating bald statements (with or without the support of Biblical texts) is discouraged and repeat offences will result in active discouragement (suspension or banning)

Could I also suggest that you look at the second web link in Rowen's post (immediately above yours) as it is directly relevant to your comments.

Please take this as constructive criticism - we need people on board who are prepared to stand up for what they believe to be right, but they also have to be prepared to admit that they might just be wrong, or to agree to differ with others while still remaining shipmates. Have a look around the rest of the ship and see what happens on other threads.

[Edited for typo- hit Add Reply rather than Edit Post- doh!]

[ 22. August 2003, 08:23: Message edited by: TonyK ]

--------------------
Yours aye ... TonyK

Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
geelongboys
Apprentice
# 4870

 - Posted      Profile for geelongboys   Author's homepage   Email geelongboys   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well...no reply from godhatesfags...but ..at least now they can't say they weren't warned about their hubris and reviling.

I just want to throw something into the mix that never seems to come up in these polarised debates.

I've always been same-sex attracted(grade 4 at primary school..my earliest memory of this)..and became a Christian at 19..(I'm now aged 36). From the earliest encounter with Christianity...it was clear to me that homosexual acts and lust are wrong. It's clear in the bible...I dunno why there's any debate about that.. and right from the start in church..it's been clear..this is a part of me that I can't bring to God. After a long time of believing only part of me had been redeemed by grace ...(the gay bit I'd have to 'overcome')...I realised that this thing is bigger than me..and wasn't so overcomerable. So where to then? I have these attractions..and I give in to them and have sex from time to time...but that part of me is 'disowned' by the church.

After deciding I couldn't belong to a church system that couldn't accept 'all of me' in all my flaws..I left the Christian faith. Out of the blue....a young (hetrosexual) Christian man walked alongside of me ...and said I could be saved by grace (all of me)....and....this is the killer bit...he acknowledged that he was just as sinful as me. Now this guy is/was totally non-naughty.. In my 15 years in the church..before I went off the rails...I had NEVER heard a hetrosexual Christian say they were as sinful as a homosexual..and just as in need of God's saving grace. What a proud bunch!

So what does this mean for the gay person? Well....if anything..the debate over the sinfulness of homosexuality is essentially irrelevant..because Christians are justified by faith...NOT by doing what the law commands. 'Holy' behaviour is not a prerequisite for salvation (because no person apart from Christ can achieve this ..despite what the Pharisee Majority thinks). It may be ideal for Princes William or Harry to behave well...given their public role....but if they behave badly....they remain princes...they don't lose their being-prince-thing because they've gone astray..even if they've done something really bad like murdered someone...or asked the people in a congregation to shake hands with five people you don't know.

Gay people are justified through any faith in Christ. I may not agree with pro-gay theology.....but I would not question a 'gay Christian's salvation for a second...because they are justified by their faith.

Christians/pastors...with incorrect proud...arrogant...greedy theologies (Hi Hillsongs!) then would not be saved....in spite of their wrong-headed and wilful sin. We're ultimately justified by faith. Why? Dunno...just is....we're stuck with it. Is it a licence to sin? No...but that doesn't stop regular Christians sinning every day.

I get the impression from many Christians ...they don't really believe God forgives sin. As a same-sex attracted person....seeing homosexuality as sinful doesn't threaten me..because God FORGIVES sin.....He forgives it.....what's another way I can put it? HE FORGIVES IT. God is not like Christians who have this grudging tolerance towards one another..after they've done something wrong.. and yes...God FORGIVES Fred Phelps... His sins of reviling and hubris are distasteful...but he made what he believed to be a humble and sincere profession of faith in 1946 or '47....(the 'fag-hating' blind spot developed later when he mistakenly read romans 1 in isolation) ..and for that confession of sin...I will see Fred in heaven. ............I wrote to him though...just to remind him that he's just as sinful as the people he condemns. God really does forgive sinners (like him and me) who have faith. It's time to change the paradigm in this debate...and re-discover amazing grace....and not focus on the law. Jesus fulfilled the law....for those who have faith in Him.

Oh by the way...Hi Johan Paulik...I thought you were cute in An American in Prague. [Love] [Embarrassed]

I am a complicated person.

(this horse is not dead..it's just sleeping).

--------------------
Love the sinner, hate your own sin.

Posts: 13 | From: Perth,Australia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cardinal Pole Vault

Papal Bull
# 4193

 - Posted      Profile for Cardinal Pole Vault   Author's homepage   Email Cardinal Pole Vault   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jesusfreak:
Hi, I really don't mean to be argumentative or seem to be on a personal crusade because I know that's against the rules, but on the whole subject of homosexuality and Christianity I don't understand how anyone who believes the Bible to be God's word and has genuine faith in Him can think that it's ok be gay. It states SO many times in the Old and New Testaments that that is not the way He intended us to live and that it's detestable to Him. I'm not saying that it's any worse than sex before marriage or any other thing that we do against what God wants but I just don't see how people can justify it.
God Bless, with Love JC Freak XXX

Dearest JC Freak,

May I extend to you my most humble and sincere gratitude.

If you hadn't of written this most sensitive, well thought out and sholarly post I may never have known the error of my evil homosexual ways. As it is now plainly clear to me that I cannot be both gay and a Christian I suppose I better take stock of my life and work out which one I actually am.

[brief period of meditation]

Well, I still fancy the pants of all the guys from Blue and Bryan from Westlife, so I take it I'm still gay.

And so, logically, I can't be a Christian.

Thanks Jesusfreak, you've just saved me a fortune in offertory giving and I can lie-in on a Sunday with no feelings of guilt.

It's like being born again

p.s. The usefulness of your post knows no bounds. I've just run out of toliet paper, but have printed out your post a 100 or so times. I've wrapped the copies around a used loo-roll tube and placed it by my WC.

I've never wiped my arse on bullshit before, but I'm confident that I'm going to enjoy every second

--------------------
"Make tea, not war"

Posts: 986 | From: Insula Tiberina | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

 - Posted      Profile for Papio   Email Papio   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
In my 15 years in the church..before I went off the rails...I had NEVER heard a hetrosexual Christian say they were as sinful as a homosexual..and just as in need of God's saving grace.
Ok, I admit it. I fancy women. I am just as sinful as every gay and lesbian person I have ever met, just as in need of God's saving grace, God's mercy, God's forgiveness and, even tbh, I know what it is like, if not to feel the scorn of ignorant hets, to want someone so badly it kills me and know I can't have them.

Any het (at all) who says different is a lying shit.

--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446

 - Posted      Profile for that Wikkid Person   Author's homepage   Email that Wikkid Person   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
As far as my bum-looking soul being as sinful as that of someone who prefers to look at the bums on people of the same sex, I had just assumed that this was obvious. I really don't see what relevance "how sinful" you were has to do with what kind of "redeemed" you are.
(I do, however, understand that having someone admit this blatantly obvious fact would no doubt be emotionaly helpful, as always happens when goody church people for some reason admit to blatantly obvious facts)

--------------------
We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.

Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

 - Posted      Profile for Papio   Email Papio   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm a goody church person?

[Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me]

Maybe I just didn't realise that the content of my post was blatently obvious? [Killing me] [Killing me]

Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022

 - Posted      Profile for Merseymike   Email Merseymike   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
From the earliest encounter with Christianity...it was clear to me that homosexual acts and lust are wrong. It's clear in the bible...I dunno why there's any debate about that..
Depends if you're a scriptural conservative or not.
There's plenty of things in the bible which are the product of the views of the men who wrote it. This is one of them.

--------------------
Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced

Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  ...  92  93  94 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools