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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Homosexuality and Christianity
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr. Gregory:
Protestant Christians are used to combatting mandatory clerical celibacy for hetersosexuals on the grounds that (1) Sexual expression of a relationship is a norm for humans (2) It is not right for us to be alone.
Actually, we're used to combatting it on the grounds that Peter and other apostles were married. The Biblical precedent is enough.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lurker McLurker™
Ship's stowaway
# 1384
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by josephine:
It's not immoral or wrong to eat meat or cheese on Friday, nor is it immoral or wrong for someone who has been thrice widowed to be married for a fourth time, although neither are permitted for Orthodox Christians.
The Orthodox Church isn't likely to bless gay unions any more than we're going to perform a fourth marriage. Those aren't permitted. But that doesn't mean that we think that gay sex is intrinsically wrong.
I'd assume being in a gay relationship is an excommunicable offrence in Orthodoxy, but can't imagine eating meat on a Friday is as well.
And what is the stance on divorce and remarriage? It seems to be discouraged, but being remarried doesn't exclude someone from being a member of the Orthodox church. Being in a gay relationship would.
If all this is true, the church doesn't treat gay sex the way it treats other things like eating cheese and being divorced and remaried.
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Just War Theory- a perversion of morality?
Posts: 5661 | From: Raxacoricofallapatorius | Registered: Sep 2001
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watchergirl
Shipmate
# 5071
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Posted
Mousethief: Thanks for your welcome ![[Smile]](smile.gif) I appreciate it.
TonyK: Thanks! Commandments read and hopefully absorbed. *grin*
I'm interested in the parallels between divorce-and-remarriage and homosexuality, in all the churches. Most accept divorced people who have married again in their congregations, even if (as in my own denomination, Anglican) they refuse to marry people who have been divorced. There is an acceptance of their sin - a sin which was commented upon by Jesus. I have heard of remarried vicars. To my mind, those who consider homosexuality a sin should not treat it any differently from remarriage after divorce. If you accept one set of sinners in your church, you should accept another kind. Otherwise it's hypocrisy.
Just my thoughts on the issue.
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Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me
Posts: 96 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2003
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
And far more sensible than most thoughts that have been expressed on this issue (including my own) they are too.
The double standards applied to heterosexual and homoseuxal morality in most churches never cease to baffle me.
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insert amusing sig. here
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Paige
Shipmate
# 2261
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by watchergirl:
Most accept divorced people who have married again in their congregations, even if (as in my own denomination, Anglican) they refuse to marry people who have been divorced.
Welcome, watchergirl! I was somewhat surprised by the comment I've copied above. Does your priest/diocese/etc. really refuse to marry people who have been divorced?
I can think of several weddings in my own parish in the last few years that involved divorced individuals---both bride AND groom. Maybe ECUSA is more radical than most of the Primates think! ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection
Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Dear Big Steve
I personally know a number of Orthodox Christians who are gay and amongst them I number some close personal friends. Being gay is not an excommunicable matter in Orthodoxy. Many priests counsel abstinence / celibacy but others deliberately say nothing. Just to show that I am being ruthlessly honest about my own church ....
How about defrocking a priest who blessed a gay union and then bulldozing his "desecrated" church? See here.
On the other hand, we have this article by a gay Orthodox Christian commenting on Boswell's research into alleged blessing of gay unions in Orthodoxy persisting well into (pre Hoxha) modern times in Albania.
On Being Orthodox and Gay
The truth is much the same as in other churches except that we USUALLY get on quietly with caring for people and not exposing issues concerning peoples' souls to political intrigue and public debate.
I fully accept though that being out and gay and Orthodox in Russia at the moment is a path of thorns and briars.
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Faithful Sheepdog
Shipmate
# 2305
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr. Gregory:
I understand and respect the desire of some gay Christians to remain celibate if that is how they square their beliefs and consciences. How, though, can it be morally defensible to require ALL gay Christians to follow this path? Some are capable of becoming eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven ... but to require it under pain of sanction for all???!!!
Protestant Christians are used to combatting mandatory clerical celibacy for hetersosexuals on the grounds that (1) Sexual expression of a relationship is a norm for humans (2) It is not right for us to be alone. How is that changed when the subjects are gay? (I mean all gay Christians).
Dear Fr. Gregory
I owe you a response on this question.
The context of the statement "not good for us to be alone" is the primordial garden. It is a clearly heterosexual procreative environment. It is celebrated with no holds barred in the Song of Songs. The procreative angle has been explored before on this thread, I think, but the force of that argument remains potent.
I would challenge you on your statement that "sexual expression of a relationship is a norm for humans". You are possibly implying that the only meaningful and fulfilling form of intimate relationship possible is a sexual one. I would respond that it is possible to achieve an equivalent level of emotional intimacy in a non-sexual context.
Another part of the OT witness is Ecclesiates 4:9-12 (ESV): quote:
Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. 10 For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up! 11 Again, if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? 12 And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
I was struck by the phrase "if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone?". The context is not obviously a sexual one, but refers to the value of teamwork, companionship and support, as well as the practicalities of life.
It reminded me of the many camping trips I undertook in my 20's with my best mate. In a tent high up in the hills, two are definitely warmer than one. I have lain alongside another man on many occasions in the confines of a tent - and been grateful for the warmth.
My best mate and I had a close, warm relationship with many of the intimate qualities I sketched earlier. It was of course completely non-sexual - that possibility never crossed our minds - although someone did suggest to us once that we could be mistaken for a gay couple.
So strong male relationships were a feature in my 20's, and "guy bonding" is a concept that I am very familiar with. For what it's worth, that is my reading of the story of David and Jonathan in the OT.
I also derived much emotional support from a network of platonic female friends. Now that I am married, paradoxically I miss that ability to be emotionally intimate with both male and female friends at once. I have to be particularly careful now in my interactions with women since my priorities are clear.
The NT picks up this pattern of non-sexual but intimate relationship in the context of the ministry of Jesus with his disciples and the women who accompanied them.
Having recently discovered that Orthodoxy has names for all the 70 sent out by Jesus, I am sure it probably has a lot to say about the women who accompanied the apostolic band.
Unlike Orthodox Judaism, where marriage is almost compulsory (so I understand), the celibate life is blessed and sanctioned by the life of Christ himself. One of my favourite scriptures from my time single is Matt 8:20 (ESV):
quote:
“Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”
I have always caught a hint in that verse of the loneliness of Christ in human terms. In my single days that verse nourished me on more than one occasion.
I am now a married man. I realise the glass house that I am sitting in when I talk about other people's call to a celibate life. But being married is not without its own trials, and single people have a freedom which I no longer enjoy.
Whether I have supplied the moral justification that you ask of me I doubt, but I hope that I have sketched out some possibilities in a constructive fashion.
Neil
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"Random mutation/natural selection works great in folks’ imaginations, but it’s a bust in the real world." ~ Michael J. Behe
Posts: 1097 | From: Scotland | Registered: Feb 2002
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Dear Faithful Sheepdog
quote:
I would respond that it is possible to achieve an equivalent level of emotional intimacy in a non-sexual context.
Of course ... but if a marriage relationship is presupposed (leaving aside the gay issue at the moment) a sexual expression of that relationship IS the norm. Of course there will be medical and psychological exceptions.
All I am saying is that gay people in monogamous life long relationships argue for a sexual relationship on exactly the same grounds as heterosexuals, (excepting the procreative dimension of course).
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Faithful Sheepdog:
The context of the statement "not good for us to be alone" is the primordial garden. It is a clearly heterosexual procreative environment.
Geez, I thought it was a garden. Are all gardens clearly heterosexual procreative environments? If I found heterosexuals procreating in my garden, I'd be mighty upset (especially if they smashed the basil).
Look at what comes immediately after this statement -- God brings all manner of animals to the man in the garden and none is considered a suitable companion for the man. Surely God didn't think the man could procreate with one of these animals? Or was it for the man to see that he couldn't procreate with any of them? Did he try? No -- rather the point seems to be companionship, not procreation.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr. Gregory:
How about defrocking a priest who blessed a gay union and then bulldozing his "desecrated" church? See here.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif) ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Thank you for that, Father G. Every once in a while I start to question my stance on inclusion; then I read something like that and think "By their fruits shall ye know them."
Sorry for interrupting.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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watchergirl
Shipmate
# 5071
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by paigeb:
Welcome, watchergirl! I was somewhat surprised by the comment I've copied above. Does your priest/diocese/etc. really refuse to marry people who have been divorced?
Thanks for the welcome, paigeb!
As I understand it, the Church of England will not marry divorced people - of course, there may be exceptions in individual churches, but I don't know of any. In my last church there was a long-running discussion going on about this, since one of their evangelists was remarried and had been upset that he was not able to be married in a church. I believe it's an issue that the C of E is discussing - though it's probably gone onto the back burners with recent discussions. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
[ 14. October 2003, 06:38: Message edited by: watchergirl ]
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Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me
Posts: 96 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Although most priests won't conduct marriages of divorced people in CofE churches (apart from some who occasionally will obtain special permission from the bishop to do so) they offer services of blessing, which in many respects rather similar to elements of the marriage service, to be performed after the registry office ceremony. IME these are done rather well.
I fail to see why services of blessing cannot be offered to homosexual couples - asking for God's blessing on their lives should be something everyone can ask for, regardless of sexual orientation.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Faithful Sheepdog
Shipmate
# 2305
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Faithful Sheepdog:
The context of the statement "not good for us to be alone" is the primordial garden. It is a clearly heterosexual procreative environment.
Geez, I thought it was a garden. Are all gardens clearly heterosexual procreative environments? If I found heterosexuals procreating in my garden, I'd be mighty upset (especially if they smashed the basil).
Look at what comes immediately after this statement -- God brings all manner of animals to the man in the garden and none is considered a suitable companion for the man. Surely God didn't think the man could procreate with one of these animals? Or was it for the man to see that he couldn't procreate with any of them? Did he try? No -- rather the point seems to be companionship, not procreation.
Dear Mousethief
I have to disagree here. The command to be fruitful and multiply comes before in Genesis 1. I'm not a young earth creationist, nor a Genesis literalist, but I see Genesis 1 as the palate of colours out of which God "painted" the generations of the heavens and the earth in Genesis 2 and following.
There's some interesting dicussion in Kerygmania in the thread Helper, Helpmate or What? that's relevant, particularly on the precise meaning and nuance of the word "ezer" ("helper" in Hebrew).
I have suggested the translation "the one who gets me out of the complete mess that I am in". Adam was commanded to be fruitful, and without Eve, he certainly did have a problem, no matter how many animals he had. I'm not denying the companionship angle in any relationship, but procreation is a fundamental point here.
I have a herb garden too, but I've not yet found anyone procreating in it . Sadly basil does not grow too well in Scotland.
Neil
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"Random mutation/natural selection works great in folks’ imaginations, but it’s a bust in the real world." ~ Michael J. Behe
Posts: 1097 | From: Scotland | Registered: Feb 2002
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
Father Jensen doesn't support gay unions? Goodness, there's a suprise.
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insert amusing sig. here
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
Are archbishop's scriptural?
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Are multiple personalities scriptural? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Personally I prefer Archimandrites but they don't breed too well in captivity. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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La Sal
Shipmate
# 4195
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Posted
P. Jensen states: "Certainly the problem is not homosexuality as such; it is the disregard for the scriptural teaching on chastity for us all which is the problem." "It (co-habitation) is marriage without promises, union without commitment, a shadow of the real thing." "The satisfactions gained from informal setting up of domestic arrangements is short-term."
Well then, why doesn't he help create a formal setting up of domestic same gender arrangements so that my 29yr. co-habitation will not be considered sinful in the eyes of God? "The problem is not homosexuality as such!" I love that argument.
Posts: 175 | From: sonoran desert | Registered: Mar 2003
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
I fail to see why services of blessing cannot be offered to homosexual couples - asking for God's blessing on their lives should be something everyone can ask for, regardless of sexual orientation.
Hmmm. And it wouldn't necessarily have to assume blessing of this or that set of activities, either. One could see a non-biological family of whatever kind as, still, a family, whether or not sexual intercourse is involved, and whether or not one personally approves of the latter, and one could ask for God's blessing on that family or household.
I wonder if part of the problem we're dealing with here is that marriage and the nuclear family have been treated as The Only Or Most Important Kind Of Family Relationship for too long. Romantically single people can still have non-biological and non-marital family members, and for those of us from really dysfunctional backgrounds, the family members we have chosen are the most important ones we have.
Some people have argued for legally-recognised domestic partnerships (which could apply to more than just romantic relationships); I wonder if one solution to the religious situation might be a religious recognition and blessing of domestic partnerships, without regard to whether or not it would be the same as a marriage? (Is there a blessing given to families with adopted children when they are older than infants and have already been baptised?)
David
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Iron Sun
Shipmate
# 3288
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Posted
This is how my company has handled the issue in regars to benefits. You're allowed to choose any one other adult to be covered in the smae manner usually reserved for spouses. It can be a partner, a parent, a friend, whatever. No questions asked.
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I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed shrink is our friend.
- Jack Handey
Posts: 76 | From: Pittsburgh!!! | Registered: Sep 2002
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
yeah, my employeers work it the same way. i know one person who was planning on listing her sister.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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La Sal
Shipmate
# 4195
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Posted
I agree with ChasMastr: "...part of the problem may be...that marriage and the nuclear family have been treated as The Only Or Most Important Kind Of Family Relationship for too long."
I don't see a reason why other non traditional loving relationships/families cannot be considered JUST as sacred in the eyes of religion as the blessed marriage. What can possibly be perceived as threatening?
BTW, G. Shrub endorsed this week as MARRIAGE PROTECTION WEEK!
Posts: 175 | From: sonoran desert | Registered: Mar 2003
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
So now the Dead Horse rises and the Church may very well split.
I've been wondering what form the split will take. Now the 'commission', or whatever its title is, is to be set up, guess I'll just have to wait and see.
Any thoughts?
![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif) ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
J
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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kevb
Apprentice
# 4691
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Posted
booo hoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 17 | From: devon | Registered: Jul 2003
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by La Sal:
BTW, G. Shrub endorsed this week as MARRIAGE PROTECTION WEEK!
Yes, I noticed the timing of this being right around Coming Out Day. GRRRR!
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
What is one supposed to do for Marriage Protection Week?
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insert amusing sig. here
Posts: 8705 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Only get marrried if you are wearing a condom?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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La Sal
Shipmate
# 4195
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Posted
Divine Outlaw-Dwarf asked, "What is one to do for Marriage Protection Week?"
I think promote fear and intolerence.
It is sponsered by a group called The Family Research Council in order to oppose GLBT families and to promote the passage of the Federal Marriage Amendment.
Posts: 175 | From: sonoran desert | Registered: Mar 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw-Dwarf:
What is one supposed to do for Marriage Protection Week?
Californians can register their domestic partnerships with the state.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by La Sal:
...and to promote the passage of the Federal Marriage Amendment.
Tell me it isn't true -- nobody has proposed a federal Marriage Amendment, have they? Please tell me it isn't true. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
But then again I'm one of those benighted straights who just can't see how squashing the rights and privileges of gays/lesbians (et al.) has any affect at all on my marriage -- let alone how it might "protect" my marriage. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
MT, this must be the forth or fifth time I have given you a standing ovation.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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watchergirl
Shipmate
# 5071
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Posted
Yes, apparently an amendment to the US constitution is being suggested whereby same-sex marriages would be permenantly outlawed.
It's interesting that, at the same time, the UK government is talking about the formal recognition of such partnerships via a civil register. How would these two countries relate to each other regarding these changes, were both to go ahead?
Marriage Protection Week upset me exactly because it promoted this irrational, polarised idea that gay/lesbian relationships put heterosexual ones in jeopardy. And because of stories I've heard about some clearly homophobic actions being taken by certain Christian groups in the US to 'celebrate' the week. I found it all extremely concerning.
[ 18. October 2003, 15:26: Message edited by: watchergirl ]
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Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me
Posts: 96 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2003
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
I have noticed we are coming up to the second anniversary of this thread. Should there be a party or something?
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
Only get marrried if you are wearing a condom?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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insert amusing sig. here
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by watchergirl:
Marriage Protection Week upset me exactly because it promoted this irrational, polarised idea that gay/lesbian relationships put heterosexual ones in jeopardy.
Yes, that's the thing I just don't get. "Well, I was happily married for 18 years, then they let gays get married, and all of a sudden my wife and I started fighting like crazy. We finally got divorced. I'm sure this never would have happened had they not let gays get married." WTF??!?!?!?!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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alitzia
Apprentice
# 5097
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Posted
it appears as though i have about 8,000 posts to catch up on. nonetheless, i thought i'd introduce myself on this thread as i am heterosexually challenged. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
if i may, i'd like to post myself most closely as a... 14) Homosexual people and homosexuality are as good or bad as hets and hettyness, and homosexuality as well as hettyness is to be celebrated as a gift from God [I am incarnationalist, hurrah]
as i side note, i toggle between divorcing and marrying christianity... if i continue to embrace it, it will be in a way that many might consider heretical, so i don't know if it is best to resist rather than embrace it at this point.
as far as the neverending homosexual debate goes, new opinions seem to multiply like bunnies and i find myself in angst over this.
i am relieved seeing the jovial yet caring nature (from what i've read) of the participants on the ship, so i wanted to join in.
i hope i haven't stolen an avatar. i picked this particular one as it reminds me of one of my favorite movies "orlando" starring tilda swinton.
thx for having me!
alicia
Posts: 1 | From: SC | Registered: Oct 2003
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Well, this dead horse has risen to life. The commission on my status came back on Friday resoundingly in my favour. So I can now be assessed for ministry training (where's the smiley for leaping up and down and turning cartwheels?) It's only taken 5 years since I first applied.
Thanks to all those lovely shipmates who have kept me company - next step, interviews, with the whole church watching over my shoulder.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alitzia:
as i side note, i toggle between divorcing and marrying christianity... if i continue to embrace it, it will be in a way that many might consider heretical, so i don't know if it is best to resist rather than embrace it at this point.
Welcome, as the remarkable Multipara said:
"The church is a whore but she is our mother, and we love her...."
And elsewhere on the boards FCB quoth:
"I find a well-developed sense of irony is one's best survival tool in the church. The soul is a complex and finely tuned organism upon which the church must sometimes operate with the blunt tools of rubrics and canons. But they are the tools we have and I suppose we need to pray that the patient survives the operation."
In my current ambivalence to Christianity, I find that it would have been much more convenient not to have acknowledged the call into relationship with the Living God at all. Unfortunately, having been acknowledged, I find the Truth therein can only be rejected with rather more self-deception than I can muster at present. But I'm working on it.
Good luck.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
alitzia - welcome....
Arabella ... so the journey continues! Exciting, scary, frustrating, painful, glorious.... Blessings.
Coot, I don't think God is willing to let you go, even if at times you might prefer he did.
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Alitzia - may I give you an official host's welcome to the Ship - even though some shipmates have welcomed you already.
I'm sure that you will have read theShip's 10 Commandments and have noticed the Guidelines at the entrance to each Board.
There's certainly plenty to read, but you don't have to read it all - not in the first week or so anyway
And public avatars are just that - though I don't recollect seeing that one anywhere else on board. After you have reached the (relatively) exalted heights of shipmatedom you can (for a small(ish) donation to the Organ Fund) supply the Ship's techies with a personal avatar to be used. Details are in the FAQs area.
Check out the other boards and have fun!
Yours aye ... TonyK
Dead Horses Host
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Mr Coot,
you wrote: quote:
In my current ambivalence to Christianity, I find that it would have been much more convenient not to have acknowledged the call into relationship with the Living God at all. Unfortunately, having been acknowledged, I find the Truth therein can only be rejected with rather more self-deception than I can muster at present.
If only I could have expressed it so well myself. The call can't be denied even if one hasn't a clue where one fits in.
Arabella...yo! I am so pleased for you. I always appreciate your postings . If the shipmates are of great help to you, you are also of great help to the shipmates.
Hi, Alitiza. Welcome to the Ship.
J
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Arabella - congratulations! I'm delighted.
Coot - can't think of anything to say that doesn't sound patronising, so
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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La Sal
Shipmate
# 4195
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Posted
Arabella, very good news!
"It's only taken 5 years since I first applied."
Maybe the long struggle is a sign of things to come....oh, oh!
BEST WISHES!
I too welcome you to the Ship, Alitiza!
[Duplicated post deleted]
[ 20. October 2003, 07:44: Message edited by: TonyK ]
Posts: 175 | From: sonoran desert | Registered: Mar 2003
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
Congratulations again Arabella!
Wishing you all the very best with the next step of the journey!
And welcome too Alitzia!
God bless you both...
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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watchergirl
Shipmate
# 5071
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Posted
Welcome to alitzia; congratulations to Arabella. I think this ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) may have been the smiley you were looking for.
I went to an interesting church today. They are evangelical but want to welcome L/G/B people into their church so that they can be inclusive and as many people as possible can hear the gospel. Beyond that, they seem to recognise and accept that there will be a range of views in their congregation on these issues. (Although this was all what I picked up from talking generally about 'inclusion' with a church member - so it may be more one person's view than the whole church's view.) It was nice to experience a church where that kind of freedom of opinion was allowed - though I've only been there once so need to go again to get a clearer view of what's going on there. Good stuff, though.
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Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me
Posts: 96 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Watchergrrll: reading things like that give me hope when I rail over the Protection of Marriage Act. Maybe small changes within churches will accumulate to something lasting.
...and Hurrah, Arabella!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alitzia:
it appears as though i have about 8,000 posts to catch up on. nonetheless, i thought i'd introduce myself on this thread as i am heterosexually challenged.
...
thx for having me!
alicia
Alicia, darlin'. It's so good to see you *here*! Welcome to the ship. And hang on -- the ride gets bumpy at times.
iGeek
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
Arabella, great news! You can only go forward now.
cheers, you've made my day.
m
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Paige
Shipmate
# 2261
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Posted
Arabella---what wonderful news to begin the week! Congratulations and God bless.
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Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection
Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Arabella - fantastic news! I hope you can hear the shouts across the Tasman!
Confession time: after reading Arabella's wonderful post on her experience at Uni where she realised some missing knowledge of herself [I understood it perfectly!], I needed to take some time off and seriously think about this - because this is exactly what hit me when I read your post.
I must be a slow maturer as I am 26 as I write this: but I truly had no inkling that I may be attracted to men - sheltered life or what!?!? -- or am I hitting puberty late??? All through school and Uni where my male friends chased women and discuss "conquests", I felt no interest in this.
I am still confused: I generally find women very attractive [not in a sexual sense; God "blessed" me with a 0% sex drive], yet I find myself drawn to men on the occasional instance as well. The feeling is not one of, "Wow! I'd like to get in with him!", but more "Wow! He is hot!".
I'm still also confused as to what this means for me, and how I will view homosexuality issues in terms of partners, etc. I need to be honest and say my thoughts are generally in line with those of David on sex, but that is me -- and I make no judgement or remarks on others. We only go by the light given to us.
Admitting this has been a great relief and I find myself not as hung up on it as I have been for the past few months. I have admitted it to one close friend, and will tell another soon. My friend was understanding, which is a blessing. I am not sure if I am taking this too cautiously, but I can only proceed as I know how.
I'm rambling: please forgive me. I'm tossing up whether to hit "Add Reply" or simply shut down the computer. But I need to add this, not only for myself, but as a Thanks to all here who have been open and honest, and who have helped me and others.
Thanks; God bless,
Ian.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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