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Source: (consider it) Thread: Homosexuality and Christianity
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Nope, even stupid people have a right to their opinions. They even have a right to air them. Pity, but there you go. The price of living in a free society is not too high to pay.

Maybe I meant that they don't have a right to expect me to take them seriously.

--------------------
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Do you expect them to take you seriously? Perhaps you don't, I don't know. But however stupid the opinion about teachers influencing students' sexual orientation may be, no one holding that opinion is likely to change his or her mind if someone else doesn't take it or them seriously enough to engage in discussion about it.
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
How could she avoid doing so? Good teachers don't dictate every question and comment that happens in a classroom, and if you live in a small country town it is impossible to keep your "private life" entirely out of sight from your students.

I wrote this post because I was thinking of a conversation I had with one of the sweetest little first graders in the whole world* while I was helping him with his math.

Em asked me, "Do you have a boyfriend?"

I blinked a bit (off topic questions aren't unusual at this age level, but I'm old and it takes me a while to track) and answered, "No."

Em went back to figuring for a second and then asked, "Do you have a girlfriend?"

"No," I answered again.

"Okay," em said, and went back to math.

*of course, that's what I think of all my first graders. [Yipee]


And thank you, Paige, for metioning the insane suicide rate. About a year ago, a friend who was out and abandoned by his family and church shot himself in the head. I'd lost contact with him and I know I'll be wondering for the rest of my life whether I could have done something.

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Spawn
Shipmate
# 4867

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I think it's very possible that a more socially-acceptable climate for gays and lesbians in society may lead to a much higher proportion of people on the sexuality spectrum opting for a homosexual lifestyle. Therefore it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a sexually confused teenager could be influenced by teachers and in education. I'm not aware of any statistical evidence, however, for positive teaching about homosexuality influencing young people's choices. Obviously, this is not a possibility if you believe that sexual orientation is set in stone from a very early age for everybody.

Paige, says she'll teach her children to 'fight' for gay rights. That's her choice. My choice is that my children are being taught to love everybody regardless of differences. They'll also be taught that chastity and marriage are God's ideals for their lives.

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by Spawn:
I think it's very possible that a more socially-acceptable climate for gays and lesbians in society may lead to a much higher proportion of people on the sexuality spectrum opting for a homosexual lifestyle. Therefore it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a sexually confused teenager could be influenced by teachers and in education. I'm not aware of any statistical evidence, however, for positive teaching about homosexuality influencing young people's choices. Obviously, this is not a possibility if you believe that sexual orientation is set in stone from a very early age for everybody.

Paige, says she'll teach her children to 'fight' for gay rights. That's her choice. My choice is that my children are being taught to love everybody regardless of differences. They'll also be taught that chastity and marriage are God's ideals for their lives.

As I am sure you know, Spawn, the three chief understandings of the causes of gay, lesbian and bisexual sexualities are:

1) That it is is biological.
2) That it is fixed within the first five years of life.
3) That it is biological, but conditioned by an individual society again within the first five years.

None of these options allow for the so-called "possibility" that it is significantly affected by sex education.

I have no idea what most bisexuals would do under the circumstances you suggest, but the majority favour one gender anyway. I strongly suspect that a person is either straight, gay, lesbian or bi and that it only moves in an individual lifetime over a very small range. Bisexuals are more likely then gays/lesbians to be confused, as gays/lesbians are more likely than straights.

However, people find their place eventually and, sorry, but parents do not IMO have the right to dictate what their offspring should be. (How they should behave whilst under the parental roof or whilst living at home is a seperate issue.)

It seems unlikely in the extreme that somebody (and I am not reffering to you, Spawn) who is entirely ignorant of the above sexological facts has spent much time or effort finding out whereof they speak.

I also did not say that I refuse to ever take them seriously, just that I don't have to.

--------------------
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Littlelady
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# 9616

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I've read the last few pages of this debate - scary stuff! [Eek!]

I'm new on here so this is a tentative post. But I want to say that I really respect what ChristinaMarie has been saying.

I appreciate the point she made about the majority being pressurised into accepting something they cannot (or will not, whichever) accept, including the sex ed bit, and the risk of backlash if such pressure continues unabated. Campaigning for equality is right and good, imo, and policies like the Civil Partnership Bill are way overdue. But there's a time for shouting and pushing, and there's a time for letting the dust settle for a while so the progress made can blend into the culture. I think Tatchell's comment about the gay horse story that Christina referred to is perhaps an indicator of where things are at. Perhaps this is what Christina has been saying also. Campaigning is about tactical retreats as well as advances. It would be a real shame, imo, if having achieved so much, the gay rights movement took a step too far too soon.

PS: My background is I'm straight, have always known I'm straight, but I'm pro-gay.

--------------------
'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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LittleLady I haven't seen you around before, so may I welcome you to the Ship? I hope you enjoy the place, in all its bizarre variety, and have a lot of fun on board.

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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ChristinaMarie
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# 1013

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quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
I've read the last few pages of this debate - scary stuff! [Eek!]

I'm new on here so this is a tentative post. But I want to say that I really respect what ChristinaMarie has been saying.

I appreciate the point she made about the majority being pressurised into accepting something they cannot (or will not, whichever) accept, including the sex ed bit, and the risk of backlash if such pressure continues unabated. Campaigning for equality is right and good, imo, and policies like the Civil Partnership Bill are way overdue. But there's a time for shouting and pushing, and there's a time for letting the dust settle for a while so the progress made can blend into the culture. I think Tatchell's comment about the gay horse story that Christina referred to is perhaps an indicator of where things are at. Perhaps this is what Christina has been saying also. Campaigning is about tactical retreats as well as advances. It would be a real shame, imo, if having achieved so much, the gay rights movement took a step too far too soon.

PS: My background is I'm straight, have always known I'm straight, but I'm pro-gay.

Thank you Littlelady,

You have understood what I have been writing. Spot on.

Also, I agree with Spawn that children should be taught that ALL BULLYING IS WRONG.

The homosexual child should have someone to talk to about it. I have no complaints about such children having counsellors, etc. If Gay and Lesbian people care so much about children, rather than pushing an agenda, then they should see no problem in this.

In India, at weddings, it is customary for young men to dance with each other, in a sexually provocative way, and have sex with each other. They don't consider themselves gay, and get marrie d later, in arranged marriages. They do not have the Taboo, so they do it.

Teaching all children about homosexuality and how it is normal and natural - when it is not - this is why we are Queer - will remove taboos and result in the same kind of behaviour as found in India. Many more boys and young men will experiment if the Taboo is lifted. This is based on what actually happens in other cultures!

I have not argued from a Christian point of view at all. Even mentioning the Gay Christian arguments, is not a Christian argument. It is an argument from ancient cultures.

From the Christian point of view, as the Conservatives in the article, then these moves could result in young men and young women perverting their straight/bi natures by same-sex practise, because of the lifting of the Taboo. They could go to Hell because of it. The Gay Christian position I believe in, is that it is not a sin for lifelong lasting gay or lesbian relationships, which are like marriages.

Most Gays and Lesbians are not in lifelong loving relationships. It is quite unusual in Gay circles. The couples I have known, both men and women, stay away from the Gay Scene because there are always people trying to split them up to have sex that night. Promiscuity is commonplace in gay and lesbian circles, and is becoming much worse in straight circles too.

This is a dangerous path to go down.

Christina

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ChristinaMarie
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# 1013

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quote:
Cristina---gay teenagers have a very high rate of suicide. They kill themselves because they never hear anyone tell them that they are not bad or abnormal.

Should we sacrifice them, just so that conservative straights (or people like yourself) will be more comfortable?

They should be told the truth, that some people end up gay or lesbian for reasons we do not fully understand yet, and that it is okay to not be like everyone else.

To say that they are normal is like saying a child with Down's Syndrome is normal. Just as Downs' Syndrome is something that happens when things go wrong, so is being gay, lesbian or transsexual or transgendered.

Children should not be taught lies in order to make some feel better. Children should be taught not to pick on anyone else who is different, for any reason.

When I was a child, the term for cerebral palsy was used as an insult. Today, they say 'you've got special needs!'

Your method does not work.

Furthermore, if you are opposed to Teachers taking a firm hand with children, you are personally to blame for some of the suicides. Teachers are not able to discipline children, because they would be charged with assault, because of Liberals who don't live in the real world, and impose their Ideologies on everyone, and ruin our societies.

Did you know that in the USA male rape in prison is very common? Did you know that many rape on the basis of race? Did you know that some prisons have segregated races in prisons to reduce rapes and resultant suicides? Did you know this policy has worked?

Did you know that Liberals like you are saying that the policies are racist and want the prisons to go back to the bad old days?

Fight? You don't know what the word means.

Christina

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
Most Gays and Lesbians are not in lifelong loving relationships. It is quite unusual in Gay circles.

Evidence for this assertion? Last time I saw numbers on this for the US, they said that lesbians have a fairly high rate of commitment, but gay men's is rather low, confirming the stereotype that men don't commit. [Big Grin] I think there would be more lifelong loving relationships between lesbians and gays if there were more social acceptance and support for them. As it is, half of all marriages between straight people end anyway, so when we consider what gay people are up against, it's not too surprising that many do not enter committed relationships.

Social acceptance makes a big difference. ChristinaMarie, you may not know a lot of gay couples who have been together for a long time, but where I live, in a very gay-friendly city, there are lots of them.

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ChristinaMarie
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# 1013

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You've just contradicted yourself Ruth. Yes, Lesbians are more likely to commit. Yes, gay men confirm the sterotype, then you make your last point which contradicts what you wrote about gay men.

Furthermore, as you know, just because there are many in your city (which is anecdotal) does not mean it is like that elsewhere.

It is socially acceptable for gay men to give other gay men blowjobs in toilets in gay bars. Should we say many do that?

It is strange that straight behaviour has become much more promiscuous now that gay and lesbian behaviour is acceptable. Is there a link? I doubt it, but it could be studied. It is probably caused by the decline of Christianity brought on by Liberal Christians.

Christina

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ChristinaMarie
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# 1013

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David wrote:

quote:
So you see relationships like your own as "detrimental to people and society"? If so, then why are you in one? If not, how is your situation different?
Most gay and lesbian people are not in committed lieflong intended relationships. The Gay scene is notorious from promiscuity.

There is a phenomena now among some gay men with HIV to bare back ride.

I have nothing against lifelong intended relationships whether gay or straight.

Gay or Lesbian is 2nd best though, something out of necessity because both partners' brains have not developed properly.

Marriage with children is best, IMO, with other relationships being not as good. That doesn't mean we are bad. 2nd best does not equal bad. However, a huge drop in the birth rate does equal the loss of a Nation, or an ethnic group.

Christina

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
You've just contradicted yourself Ruth. Yes, Lesbians are more likely to commit. Yes, gay men confirm the sterotype, then you make your last point which contradicts what you wrote about gay men.

Not necessarily. If it really is true that gay men are like straight men in their reluctance to commit, then there will be fewer gay male couples than lesbian couples. That does not mean that the numbers of gay male couples would not increase if there were more social support for their relationships.

quote:
Furthermore, as you know, just because there are many in your city (which is anecdotal) does not mean it is like that elsewhere.
Right. But if more places were like Long Beach, CA, I think gay and lesbian relationships would in general be more stable and long-lived.

quote:
It is socially acceptable for gay men to give other gay men blowjobs in toilets in gay bars. Should we say many do that?
Well, it's true--it is socially acceptable behavior in many gay bars, and many do it. I have no problem saying that, and don't know why we shouldn't. So let's have acceptance of more, well, wholesome activity, shall we? in order to encourage people to settle down, buy houses and become pillars of the community rather than spend their days and nights cruising for blowjobs and one-night stands. The Republican party ought to be in favor of gay marriage, considering what a stabilizing force marriage tends to be in people's lives.

quote:
It is strange that straight behaviour has become much more promiscuous now that gay and lesbian behaviour is acceptable. Is there a link? I doubt it, but it could be studied. It is probably caused by the decline of Christianity brought on by Liberal Christians.
I doubt very much that straight behavior is any more promiscuous now than it ever has been--have Louise tell you about sexual activity in medieval Britain some time. According to parish records or marriages and births, a whole heck of a lot of brides were already pregnant when they got married. You've made a whole host of assumptions in these few sentences, but the idea that straight people are more promiscuous now than in eras when gay and lesbian sex was absolutely verboten is the most laughable.
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Sean
Shipmate
# 51

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
Furthermore, if you are opposed to Teachers taking a firm hand with children, you are personally to blame for some of the suicides. Teachers are not able to discipline children, because they would be charged with assault, because of Liberals who don't live in the real world, and impose their Ideologies on everyone, and ruin our societies.

You don't teach kids that bullying is wrong by beating them up [Roll Eyes]

Bullying can be and is successfully addressed without resorting to the same behaviour as the bullies, and (around here at least) I think you would struggle to find many teachers who would want to have corporal punishment reinstated. You address bullying by teaching the whole community that it is wrong and what to do about it; punishing the people who do it is not the main factor. So long as the community is not willing to talk about why person or group is equal, then they are complicit in the bullying. Any anti-bullying policy has to be founded on equality, or it's complete bollocks.

--------------------
"So far as the theories of mathematics are about reality, they are not certain; so far as they are certain, they are not about reality" - Einstein

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John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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CHristinaMarie

From what I see around me, you are living in some dream world unrelated to any reality. Gay people aren't pushing on the schools. There is no boogeyman in the closet.

You have said being gay isn't normal. Well, try "tyical" if you want to escape the ambiguity that has trapped you. It is abnormal statistically -- that is, it is atypical. FOr those who are gay, it is normal -- it is the only thing they can be.

Then you wrote "Teaching all children about homosexuality and how it is normal and natural - when it is not - this is why we are Queer - will remove taboos and result in the same kind of behaviour as found in India. Many more boys and young men will experiment if the Taboo is lifted. This is based on what actually happens in other cultures!" Maybe more will experiment, though if what I sometimes read about adolescent males, many of them do already. So what? Unless you are going to argue that a couple of experiences is going to pervert them for life -- which would cut right across your earlier arguments that straight people can do gay things without being gay -- what's the problem?

I have issues about promiscuity, in any direction, but you come across as thinking it's okay for a straight boy to shove it up as many girls as he can, cause that'a natural, but not to try it with another boy, because that's perverted and justifies categorizing all gay males as inherently promiscuous.

John

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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Personally, I find these last couple of pages infinitely depressing because I can assure you my life is not nearly as exciting as it apparently should be. I must ask Uncle Sine what I am doing wrong that I don't have a constant parade of illicit back-room sexual encounters with hot horny hunky men.

I hate to burst anyone's fantasies but most gay bars are rather boring. You stand around. You drink. You dance a little. There is a little flurry of activity about half an hour before closing, but, sad to say, most of the patrons go home alone. [Snore]

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
In India, at weddings, it is customary for young men to dance with each other, in a sexually provocative way, and have sex with each other. They don't consider themselves gay, and get marrie d later, in arranged marriages. They do not have the Taboo, so they do it.

Well, I'd love to know where you got that from. My understanding was that homosexuality is shameful in Hindu culture and very far from being accepted either there or here in Britain within the traditional community.

BBC article on being gay in India

Please could you provide some evidence for your assertion.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Gay or Lesbian is 2nd best though, something out of necessity because both partners' brains have not developed properly.
This is a claim I have not heard before. Mayber it is widespread in Gay Christian circles, but I would be very surprised to hear so. Christina, could you supply some evidence to support this assertion please?

[ 17. June 2005, 06:33: Message edited by: The Wanderer ]

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Callan
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# 525

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Originally posted by Spawn:

quote:
I think it's very possible that a more socially-acceptable climate for gays and lesbians in society may lead to a much higher proportion of people on the sexuality spectrum opting for a homosexual lifestyle.
And in a less socially acceptable climate, gays and lesbians will endeavour to conform to heterosexual norms in order to avoid osctracism, violence, imprisonment or the service-revolver-in-the-library scenario. To that extent you are right, of course.

However, if you consider someone like Tchaikovsky who was gay in Tsarist Russia its clear that growing up in an environment which is virulently anti-homosexual is not the absolute deterrent you think it might be.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paige
Shipmate
# 2261

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
Furthermore, if you are opposed to Teachers taking a firm hand with children, you are personally to blame for some of the suicides. Teachers are not able to discipline children, because they would be charged with assault, because of Liberals who don't live in the real world, and impose their Ideologies on everyone, and ruin our societies.

Christina---if this was Hell, I'd tell you exactly what I think of this nonsense.

As it is not, I will say that I find your arguments absolutely bizarre. Just how does promoting tolerance and respect for other people "ruin our societies"?

And, I repeat----if their revolution comes, you and your partner will be the first ones up against the wall. If you don't believe me, Google "Christian Reconstructionists" and see what you find. These folks have a seat at George Bush's table, and they are intent on taking full advantage of their power.

Spawn--Our positions on teaching children respect for others do not differ in any significant way. I'm sure that I'm more forceful in my insistence that gays and lesbians must be respected, and that my children must be ready to resist anti-gay bigotry whenever and wherever they encounter it---but then I have more reason to do that than you.

--------------------
Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection

Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
TonyK

Host Emeritus
# 35

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Host Mode <ACTIVATE>

I've been watching this thread for a while, wondering whether or not some sort of hostly intervention was called for.

It does seem to have drifted somewhat away from the thread title, and to have got stuck in a rut 'discussing', for example
quote:
Liberals who don't live in the real world
and whether or not they are
quote:
nutters
whether or not it possible to 'teach' homosexual behaviour; whether or not certain bizarre practices occur in India; different aspects of 'political correctness' and countries where this is more or less common, among several other tangents.

Some of the 'discussion' is verging on Hell-like; much of it is not really directly relevant to 'Homosexuality and Christianity'.

Please take such matters to the appropriate Board(s).

I choose not to name the main culprit(s) at the moment - but I shall be watching you! Verb. sap.

Host Mode <DEACTIVATE>

--------------------
Yours aye ... TonyK

Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
quote:
Gay or Lesbian is 2nd best though, something out of necessity because both partners' brains have not developed properly.
This is a claim I have not heard before. Mayber it is widespread in Gay Christian circles, but I would be very surprised to hear so. Christina, could you supply some evidence to support this assertion please?
It's the old conservative claim that gays and lesbians are in a state or arrested developement. A claim for which there is no evidence at all to my knowledge.

Christina, I don't understand your position at all. On one hand, you say that you have no objection to gay/lesbian relationships and that you (I think?) believe that these should be accepted by Christians. On the other hand, you seem to think that liberals are a menace and your posts are full of conservative arguments and anti-gay (ISTM) language. You also appear to lump gay men together in an entirely homogenous group. Is this what you intend to do?

How have I misunderstood you position? If I have not, how do these elements go together? I am not meaning this an attack, I am merely experiencing great difficulty in following your argument.

The town I live is, allegedly, the lesbian capital of Britain and also has a high proportion of gay men. I can assue people that I personally know a lot of lesbian and gay couples who have been together for years. So [Razz]

--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616

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quote:
Originally posted by Paige:
Just how does promoting tolerance and respect for other people "ruin our societies"?

These folks have a seat at George Bush's table, and they are intent on taking full advantage of their power.

Um. I'm regularly bewildered by this contradiction. So many Brits say much about tolerance and respect, but always seem to exclude either Americans generally or Bush and his supporters specifically. [Confused] I guess even the most tolerant and respectful have their exceptions!

As I understand Christina's posts, she is advocating respect and tolerance in all directions, regardless of the other person's viewpoint. That's a very brave move, imo. However, I also pick up that Christina wants gay people to be accepted (not just tolerated) as much as anyone else with that aim. Her approach, though, seems to be as much about showing respect as wanting it, and offering acceptance as asking for it.

Isn't that compatible with Christianity, no matter which version?

--------------------
'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
quote:
Originally posted by Paige:
[qb] Just how does promoting tolerance and respect for other people "ruin our societies"?

These folks have a seat at George Bush's table, and they are intent on taking full advantage of their power.

Um. I'm regularly bewildered by this contradiction. So many Brits say much about tolerance and respect, but always seem to exclude either Americans generally or Bush and his supporters specifically. [Confused] I guess even the most tolerant and respectful have their exceptions!
Huh? Paige has been intolerant and disrespectful because she has stated the simple fact that George Bush listens to people who do not want homosexuals to have any place in our society at all? This just doesn't follow. And why do you assume Paige is British? IIRC, she isn't.

Furthermore, it's all very well to talk of tolerance and respect until you meet up with someone who wants all gays back in the closet or ridden out of town on a rail. I take seriously the fact that people hold such views, but respect them? tolerate them? Never.

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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

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Others have said what I would, more or less. Not at all sure what to add.

David

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Littlelady
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# 9616

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
And why do you assume Paige is British? IIRC, she isn't.

Coz I'm new on here and I forgot it's international. Apologies to Paige.

quote:
Furthermore, it's all very well to talk of tolerance and respect until ...
My point, really.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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You have respect for Fred Phelps? And you tolerate him?
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ChristinaMarie
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# 1013

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
In India, at weddings, it is customary for young men to dance with each other, in a sexually provocative way, and have sex with each other. They don't consider themselves gay, and get marrie d later, in arranged marriages. They do not have the Taboo, so they do it.

Well, I'd love to know where you got that from. My understanding was that homosexuality is shameful in Hindu culture and very far from being accepted either there or here in Britain within the traditional community.

BBC article on being gay in India

Please could you provide some evidence for your assertion.

It was on a C4 TV programme a few weeks ago about gender bending around the world. I cannot remember the title.

It also showed a gay couple, and it is taboo to be gay, but not for young men to have what we would call gay sexual activity after a wedding.

Christina

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ChristinaMarie
Shipmate
# 1013

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Littlelady:

quote:
As I understand Christina's posts, she is advocating respect and tolerance in all directions, regardless of the other person's viewpoint. That's a very brave move, imo. However, I also pick up that Christina wants gay people to be accepted (not just tolerated) as much as anyone else with that aim. Her approach, though, seems to be as much about showing respect as wanting it, and offering acceptance as asking for it.

Yes. For example, many gays and lesbians and transgendered people are complaining about too many straights going to the Gay Village. It is such a problem that at least one bar does not let straight people in.

So, GLBT people understand the need for their own space, but Gay activists want to invade the space of straight people, and those opposed to this are name-called.

'Gag hag' is the name given to straight women who hang around gay men, and no one seems to mind. Similar terms for gays could get a man sacked from his job, even if he was being light-hearted.

Christina

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ChristinaMarie
Shipmate
# 1013

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Fag Hag, not Gag Hag.
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ukbluemoon210
Apprentice
# 4012

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Have been reading this thread with great interest.I am straight but have had gay and lesbian friends and they have been some of the nicests people ive come across. They do not agree with teaching kids in schools different lifestyles etc as they have kids themselves and want their kids to learn themselves what kind of relationships they want and not to be forced on them in schools.I myself do not like the way they live and they know it and they respecyt my views and as well as I theirs and yes we do have some excellent conversations on the matter as well but in a friendly way.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
Gay activists want to invade the space of straight people, and those opposed to this are name-called.

Again: huh? I live in a very gay-friendly city with a large gay population, and I don't see gay activists as trying to invade straight people's space. I don't even know what straight people's space would be--it's pretty anywhere that's not a gay bar, it seems to me.

quote:
'Gag hag' is the name given to straight women who hang around gay men, and no one seems to mind. Similar terms for gays could get a man sacked from his job, even if he was being light-hearted.
"Fag hag" is one of those terms where the level of derogatory meaning depends almost entirely on who uses it and what tone of voice is used. When someone clearly means it to be derogatory, believe me, people mind.
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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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What RuthW said. The only reason I didn't say it, is that she got there first.

Christina, I regret to say that are not making any sense.

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Sean
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# 51

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
Gay activists want to invade the space of straight people, and those opposed to this are name-called.

Again: huh? I live in a very gay-friendly city with a large gay population, and I don't see gay activists as trying to invade straight people's space. I don't even know what straight people's space would be--it's pretty anywhere that's not a gay bar, it seems to me.

I assumed she meant schools. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, but neither did anything else.

quote:
Originally posted by ukbluemoon210:
Have been reading this thread with great interest.I am straight but have had gay and lesbian friends and they have been some of the nicests people ive come across. They do not agree with teaching kids in schools different lifestyles etc as they have kids themselves and want their kids to learn themselves what kind of relationships they want and not to be forced on them in schools.I myself do not like the way they live and they know it and they respecyt my views and as well as I theirs and yes we do have some excellent conversations on the matter as well but in a friendly way.

If only schools could force lifestyle onto people. [Killing me]

[ 19. June 2005, 00:02: Message edited by: Sean ]

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ChristinaMarie
Shipmate
# 1013

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quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
If only schools could force lifestyle onto people. [Killing me]

Marxists are experts at it.

Christina

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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You mean authoritarian dictatorships, I presume. I don't see gays and lesbians in my town or anywhere else advocating dictatorship of the ultra-left or ultra-right variety.
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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
You mean authoritarian dictatorships, I presume. I don't see gays and lesbians in my town or anywhere else advocating dictatorship of the ultra-left or ultra-right variety.

I think she means that "the gay lobby" are Marxists because they want to force the "gay lifestyle" onto straights none of whom, obviously, want anything to do with queers. [Roll Eyes]

She is still making zero sense, and I still feel the need to point that out.

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Calindreams
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# 9147

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It certainly is nothing to do with 'promoting a gay-lifestyle' when it comes to raising an awareness in schools about difference and sexuality. Yes - bullying in general has to be tackled, but sometimes you have to get to the specifics of different sorts of bullying. A girl I have known has just committed suicide because of the bullying she has had because a 'friend' of hers outed her as a lesbian. [Frown]

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Arabella Purity Winterbottom

Trumpeting hope
# 3434

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Goodness, it doesn't pay to go away for a week, does it?

My partner is in the position Spiffy hopes to be in. She teaches at a high school. Questions from students about her personal life are answered straightforwardly and honestly, with the boundaries that any teacher must observe - so she doesn't talk about her sex life or suggest that anyone else should be exactly like her. She respects her students' needs to grow up to be whatever they will be.

Students do ask these questions. Fudging the answer simply makes a teacher look as though she has something to hide. How does that help a student trust a teacher? It also opens that teacher up to blackmail, as has happened on one excruciatingly awful occasion.

Because my partner is entirely open, and obviously loves me and behaves as though it is entirely normal, students are able to recognise that being a lesbian doesn't automatically mean any of the horrendous things ChristinaMarie was suggesting earlier. It means that students are able to ask questions if they think they might be gay or lesbian, or even if they're just confused. It means that they know a responsible adult who just happens to be a lesbian.

That isn't promoting homosexuality, its promoting decent human behaviour and respect.

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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal

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HenryT

Canadian Anglican
# 3722

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
You mean authoritarian dictatorships, I presume. ...

Canadian Conservatives are going on (and on) about the Liberals "imposing same-sex marriage." I presume this means they fear mandatory roundups of the unmarried and forcible matrimony [Devil]

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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788

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Arabella Purity Winterbottom

Trumpeting hope
# 3434

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And NZ has, late in April, introduced Civil Unions. The wind was taken right out of the sails of those who were complaining that it is "Gay Marriage by another name" when the first two couples to register were straight.

There has not been a great rush to become civilised (the current term for those entering such a union, better than unionised) but at the moment I gather it is running even on straight and queer.

We were going to get civilised in May, but then we got busy with other things, so it is now happening in September.

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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal

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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

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What everyone else said, again.

David

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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by ChristinaMarie:
quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
If only schools could force lifestyle onto people. [Killing me]

Marxists are experts at it.

I'm trying hard to remember where or when it was that Marxists forced people to be homosexual.

Nope, can't quite place it.

That must have been a bit of modern history that the Marxist International Gay-Lesbian Conspiracy edited out of our text-books.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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*sings*
"The people's flag is palest pink,
With sparkly stars and trimmed with mink..."

Yes, one can't really leave this thread alone for a few days, can one? A couple of points -

First, "Fag hag" doesn't really mean a woman who "hangs around" with gay men. It's a woman who makes a complete pest of herself by becoming infatuated with a gay man and pursuing him beyond the point of his being thoroughly sick of it. Think "stalker-lite". Sometimes used ironically in a gay man / straight woman friendship on the understanding that all parties know about it, and it's still funny (hence, not usually for long).

Secondly, about teaching stuff in schools. Here's what I'd like included in the syllabus - "Hey kids, some of the people you'll meet in life will be gay. You might like to consider not kicking the sh*t out of them."

It would be a start. [Disappointed]

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
*sings*
"The people's flag is palest pink,
With sparkly stars and trimmed with mink..."

Yes, one can't really leave this thread alone for a few days, can one? A couple of points -

First, "Fag hag" doesn't really mean a woman who "hangs around" with gay men. It's a woman who makes a complete pest of herself by becoming infatuated with a gay man and pursuing him beyond the point of his being thoroughly sick of it. Think "stalker-lite". Sometimes used ironically in a gay man / straight woman friendship on the understanding that all parties know about it, and it's still funny (hence, not usually for long).

Secondly, about teaching stuff in schools. Here's what I'd like included in the syllabus - "Hey kids, some of the people you'll meet in life will be gay. You might like to consider not kicking the sh*t out of them."

It would be a start. [Disappointed]

Hey Adeodatus, I never knew you were part of an internation gay/lesbian, multiculturalist Marxist conspiracy to overthrow everything good and decent in "First-World" society. And I am part of the same plot, y'know. What's your code word again?

What a good job a certain other shipmate is here to point out the foolishness of our positions and to oppose our lies.

Papio.

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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

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Actually I've not encountered the usage of "fag-hag" to which Adeodatus refers. Might this be a difference between US and UK usage? I'm used to it meaning "straight woman who gets on very well with gay men and has many gay men for friends" but nothing stalky.

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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Actually I've not encountered the usage of "fag-hag" to which Adeodatus refers. Might this be a difference between US and UK usage? I'm used to it meaning "straight woman who gets on very well with gay men and has many gay men for friends" but nothing stalky.

I thought it meant "straight women who are somewhat clingy around gay men".

But maybe it is a cultural difference in terminology.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
*sings*
"The people's flag is palest pink,
With sparkly stars and trimmed with mink..."

Adeodatus, you are forgetting your Julian and Sandy:

The people's flag is deepest puce
With fleur de lies in pale chartruese.
Both working hom and neaveau riche
Will find our program very chic.
We'll do our best for young and old,
Our party line is very bold.
We'll mince together hand in hand
And make great Britain FAIRY LAND!

(And no, I can't spell French words. Or many English ones either.)

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ChastMastr
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# 716

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
I thought it meant "straight women who are somewhat clingy around gay men".

But maybe it is a cultural difference in terminology.

Margaret Cho on being a "fag hag." [Big Grin]

David

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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
I thought it meant "straight women who are somewhat clingy around gay men".

But maybe it is a cultural difference in terminology.

Margaret Cho on being a "fag hag." [Big Grin]

David

Doesn't she prove my point?
[Big Grin]

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