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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Homosexuality and Christianity
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
That, as well -- I was thinking more of the sort of thing Rowen mentioned. (Not even getting into the whole "Jesus as our Bridegroom" aspect, which could still be relevant.)
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lioba
Shipmate
# 42
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
... (Not even getting into the whole "Jesus as our Bridegroom" aspect, which could still be relevant.)
Not very much for lesbians, I'm afraid, ChastMastr ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Conversion is a life-long process.
Posts: 502 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2001
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Thanks Tiffer. All I can add is that this isn't a decision or a view I came to without an awful lot of study, prayer, and life lived....
Chas...yes, very much, actually. Isn't Christianity about walking in the shoes of Jesus ? I think having to face discrimination can give you an inkling of that and a recognition of the power of God to defeat prejudice.
Also, being gay is what and who I am, and I thank God for it, and for the partner who I share my life with. I do believe that those of us who are gay and Christian have something to say to the Churches, and I am sure that the ability I have to express views, to work for change, and to help others in the same position as myself has been something which has greatly strengthened my faith - although the attitudes of others can give it a bit of a battering at times.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Hope Seeker
Apprentice
# 4051
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Posted
Hi MerceyMike,
Well this is my first post to the Ship...(okay, my first post ever...28 years old and still a relative internet neophyte...). Anyway I know this topic is under the "dead horses" category but I think it's a really important one and I hope discussion will continue.
My church's Synod just met and we had a very long debate about the blessing of same-sex unions (I'm from Canada, and this topic is all the rage right now). The debate was very respectful and I appreciated it. In fact it got me to thinking that I need to talk to MORE people about this issue. I find it's so hard to talk about without being labelled or yelled at or brought somehow to shame. I especially want to hear from people who are gay and who are Christians, because I need to hear your perspectives, joys, struggles.
Anyway I guess that's all. Always happy to keep talking! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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God is good...all the time!
Posts: 2 | From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2003
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vague:
The problem is how to overcome and heal the pain felt by those who feel they are rejected and demonised without a complete denial of either the Evangelical's convictions, or dehumanising the LGBT person because of what maybe a fundamental building block to their sense of identity.
Oh I missed this. My italics. Kindly don't include trans* people in discussions of homosexuality as if they, as a class have gay orientation. And I don't ask this because there is some shame in being gay - rather that it is an offensive failure to understand the condition known as transsexualism. Transsexual and Transgender people express all sexualities: straight, bi, gay. Gay and Bi TS people are ordinary men and women and are quite ably represented by the LGB part of LGBT.
People of conservative theology may be convicted that TS/TG people are in error, but that is a whole issue apart from homosexuality.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
I meant 'bold' rather than 'italics'. You get the idea.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Welcome aboard Hope Seeker - and thanks for your comments so far. I can't guarantee that you won't be 'labelled or yelled at' (especially if you descend to the Hell Board!) but you will find many onboard who share your concerns and/or outlook and are willing to discuss these matters with you.
As you have already seen, Dead Horses is where we keep those threads that have already been round the block several times, but they are open for further debate. New threads on related subjects, (for example your Synod's debate) can be opened in the appropriate Board, but if subsequent posts start re-hashing material already in DH, the hosts will close the thread and refer posters here.
Have fun; try the other boards; post where you feel you have something to contribute.
In the Styx Board you will find a thread where you can try out some of the facilities, without disrupting the flow of a normal thread.
See you around
Yours aye ... TonyK
Host, Dead Horses Board
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Icarus Coot:
quote:
Originally posted by Vague:
the LGBT person
Oh I missed this. My italics. Kindly don't include trans* people in discussions of homosexuality
Um, I don't know what it's like where you are, but here in the US we get a lot of people who are upset when the T is left out of the LGBT. I don't know if there are different "parties" on this issue in the T* community, or if it's an international issue, or what, but much of the time people in the trans* community here are upset by being left out rather than put in. There are always angry "letters to the editor" by people in the local trans* community whenever a gay-rights or anti-discrimination law is under discussion and trans* rights are not included -- is it different outside the US?
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
OK sorry for resurrecting this Dead Horse - I thought about posting this in TnT for a wider readership, but I know that it really is dead horse material, so I'll stick to the rules and post it here.
Today I read an article by J I Packer from Christianity Today Why I walked Now he's a theologian I guess many here would respect, and feel his views are worth a listen ('Knowing God' has got to be one of the best theology books there is IMO).
The article defends why he left the Anglican church over the issue of homosexuality. Yes for the most part it is going over old ground that has been discussed here ad nauseum. But something stood out that I wanted to comment on. When discussing what he calls 'artificial interpretation' where people might say "What Paul is condemning is not my sort of same-sex union." he writes the following
quote:
I do not, however, know how any reasonable person could read Robert A. J. Gagnon's 500-page book, The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics (Abingdon, 2001), and not conclude that any exegesis evading the clear meaning of Paul is evasive indeed. Nor from now on can I regard anyone as qualified to debate homosexuality who has not come to terms with Gagnon's encyclopedic examination of all the relevant passages and all the exegetical hypotheses concerning them. I have not always agreed with James Barr, but when on the dust jacket he describes Gagnon's treatise as "indispensable even for those who disagree with the author," I think he is absolutely right.
Now I've never heard of this book, let alone read it, but I just wondered if others have, whether you are pro or anti acceptance of homosexual practice for Christians, and whether indeed this particular author's treatment of the subject does throw any light on the minefield that is this subject.
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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website
Posts: 4413 | From: Suffolk UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Gagnon's book is fine if you are a conservative. Personally, I tend to think that conservative theology is actually the problem, not being gay. I don't try and bend conservative theology to fit my own perspective. I reject conservative theology and would advocate that others do the same.
I think Barr's view would be very much on the lines of 'know your opponents'
I hope that a few more will follow Packer.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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MadFarmer
Shipmate
# 2940
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Posted
quote:
Nor from now on can I regard anyone as qualified to debate homosexuality who has not come to terms with Gagnon's encyclopedic examination of all the relevant passages and all the exegetical hypotheses concerning them.
IMHO, if Packer really thinks that in order to apprehend the meaning of one very tiny aspect of Scripture, one must read a 500-page book, something's awry with Packer's theology. Is smacks of elitism to me.
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Where have I been? Busy, busy.
Posts: 537 | From: Yellow Springs, OH, USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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La Sal
Shipmate
# 4195
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Posted
Very well put Merseymike!
Posts: 175 | From: sonoran desert | Registered: Mar 2003
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
This is a reply to Vague's post on the closed thread. I will also send to him privately
Hi. I think that I would first, direct you to former discussions. Then to George Hopper's book, Reluctant Journey, which you will find on www.gseh65.freeserve.co.uk .
Oh good, someone else who has discovered George Hopper's work....
Does anybody have a copy of this booklet or know where the website has gone off to? I've tried now a couple of times to access it and haven't been successful.
You know, this has been an interesting thread in my journey. I first posted on this thread last September. I came out to my kids in October and my wife and I decided to divorce. I've since moved to Houston and am starting chapter 2 of my life as an Christian out gay man. The ship, GCN, and B-A have been my anchor and refuge during this crazy time. Bless you for being here.
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Hi ; wow, sounds like you really have made some major changes.
You will find that the George Hopper site is back up now - I think he has aded another chapter to the book
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
Thanks Mike. It is indeed available now and I snagged a e-copy of the booklet for reading and sharing with my "concerned" Christian sibs. I appreciate his perspective (from a heterosexual p.o.v) and that may be really helpful.
Blessings,
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
'Bring on the dead horses'
As a fairly isolated liberal with a well hidden charasmatic streak, I found this thread really useful, especially the contributions from Joan the Drawf (These arguments may be 'fairly standard' but some are new to me and support my personal intutitive stance on these issues, so thanks Joan and others ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
About 12 years ago, I worked with a gay colleague whom I loved to bits. A year or so after we stopped worked together, we had lunch in Manchester and he told me how he'd been to visit a girl he'd been at college with who had recently been 'born again' and who expressed her concerns about his sexuality. We talked about this and I tried to explain that although I was a Christian who had recently gone back to church after many years absence, I couldn't follow this line of thinking - although if I am totally honest, I was a little concerned about my ex-colleague's behavaiour at that point.
My concern for him coupled with my frustration over anti-homosexual theology and attitudes within the Church, troubled me a lot, however, a few weeks later in church the sermon dealt with the incident in Acts 11, v 5-10, in which Peter has a vision in which things previously considered unclean (in this case types of meat) were made pure. Sitting in the pew, I had a sudden realisation (see what I mean about the Charasmatic streak?)that this piece of scripture could have far wider implications. As the early Jewish Christians had to learn to accept their Gentile brothers, so the modern Church in the light of humanistic, pyschological and scientific understanding of sexuality, must learn to accept gay people. The sort attitude that actively preaches against homosexuality, sincere though it may have been, in my opinion, did little to help my colleague.
After that sermon, I felt the burden I'd been carrying fall away, although I haven't always had clear confirmation that there are other ppl within the church who feel like this, as his isn't an issue for many people in my church apart from some of the more vocal evangalists who seem to take who take quite a hard line. However, I am now finding myself in a position where I have to be very clear about my own theology, so thanks Ship of Fools for providing a forum where I can read and reflect on these sorts of issues.
Although I've been looking for an on-line Christian forum for ages, I've only just discovered this place due to publicity in the secular press about your 'ark' game.
Dorothea.
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Welcome aboard, Dorothea - glad that you found us regardless of the route!
And congratulations on an interesting and relevant first post (though it sounds as though you may be familiar with bulletin boards!).
Can I in our usual hostly way draw your attention to our Ship's Ten Commandments (link in the blue bar to the left) if you haven't already read them. You will also find that each board has its own introduction, which defines the material/behaviour appropriate to that board.
Wander around, check out other boards, contribute where you want. You may only be an apprentice now (virtual mop for virtual deck swabbing supplied!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) but 50 posts will elevate you to the status of shipmate!
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Yours aye ... TonyK
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Great post, dorothea! I will be looking forward to reading more!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Thanks for the feedback ship mates . I have been invloved with a couple of other on-line discusion groups but not any quite like this.
Mopping decks is hard work but in between shifts and sleeping I'll take some out time to explore the ship.
Dorothea.
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dorothea:
...the sermon dealt with the incident in Acts 11, v 5-10, in which Peter has a vision in which things previously considered unclean (in this case types of meat) were made pure. Sitting in the pew, I had a sudden realisation (see what I mean about the Charasmatic streak?)that this piece of scripture could have far wider implications. ...
Welcome, Dorothea. An argument very similar to what you "realized" is made in Miner &
Connoley's "The Children Are Free" which is where I first encountered it.
I've a friend in Minneapolis whose mother recently told him that he couldn't be in her life as long as he refused to change. I stayed on the line with him as he sobbed, saying over and over "why doesn't she love me?" He is especially close to her as she never married his biological father and so it was just them two as he grew up. That kind of tearing apart wounded him deeply.
The same friend called me this morning for a short chit-chat just before work and related a conversation he'd overheard of two guys at the next table at the restaraunt where he took breakfast. They were proclaiming to each other how right it was that they would have nothing to do with anybody who professed to be gay. This was motivated out of their christian convictions.
The *only* people Jesus ever cut off were the self-righteous religious authorities and those who would make a marketplace of the temple precincts.
My thought is that there are going to be a whole lot of surprised Christians when we all get to heaven.
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
It's good to know that Alpha style responses to this issue are not the only type of responses from those who hold the faith.
It's good to know that ++Rowan is putting forward a more inclusive approach to human sexuality. It will be interesting to see if he can have an impact on CofE policy (is that the right term ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif) but y'know what I mean.) I don't know what's happening in other parts of the world, except that American Episcopalians seem to be quite inclusive and that some Anglican Bishops in Africa are pretty anti.
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dorothea:
I don't know what's happening in other parts of the world, except that American Episcopalians seem to be quite inclusive ...
At the General Convention of the ECUSA this summer they will vote on blessing same-sex unions. So we'll find out just how inclusive we are. The director of Claiming the Blessing came and spoke at our parish in the fall, and she was very optimistic about the chances of this passing.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Barb
Apprentice
# 4406
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Posted
I know what my Bible says about homosexuality and I know what it says about a loving God. And I pray that my friend who 'came out' a few years ago has the peace and knowledge of the love of God that he used to preach about to multitudes of young kids on a path to knowware holds him in the palm of a loving forgiving God. Because a lot of his friends certainly don't have him in theirs anymore!
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) ![[Love]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
Posts: 1 | From: Central Coast NSW AUST | Registered: Apr 2003
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Are you saying his (Christian?) friends actually rejectd him after he came out? If so, how very sad.
D
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I know what the Bible says, and I know about God's love, and I went to God one day in prayer, thinking of some gay Christians I know who had confided their struggles to me, and said. "Lord, it is absolutely nothing to me to accept my gay friends the way they are and embrace them as brothers and sisters in Christ.I'm gonna just move forward with this attitude."
And I have never looked back.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
Welcome to Dead Horses, and to the Ship in general, Barb. Please take a few minutes to familiarise yourself with the Ship's 10 Commandments, and also with the different guidelines for each board. Other than that, do wander the boards, enjoy posting here.
Viki, temporary DH host
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dorothea:
Are you saying his (Christian?) friends actually rejectd him after he came out? If so, how very sad.
Can be, yes. But in my own case I think I'm better off without them.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
((((David)))
Anyone who can't appreciate a gem like Chastmastr does not deserve the human gifts God gives them.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dorothea:
It's good to know that Alpha style responses to this issue are not the only type of responses from those who hold the faith.
...
I've been involved with Alpha for quite a while. And I absolutely disagree with Nicky Gumble on three of his seven Questions of Life. Hmmm... maybe I should start a Purgatory thread on that...
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
Just a post to ask if any of you have heard of American Evangelical gay rights activist Rev. Mel White.
He runs an organisation called Soulforce.
Particularly interesting is his pamphlet What the Bible says and doesn't say about homesexuality which gives a pro-gay argument from an Evangelical standpoint, without IMHO any of the "interpretational gymnastics" that some have been accused of. It's 24 pages, but they're small pages with big type. It only took me about 20 minutes to get through it.
Even if you don't agree with him, his contention about how hate-crimes against gays are still hate crimes, and, even if you don't agree with him on the Bible stuff you should be supportive of a gay person's right not to be beaten up or murdered is, I think, worth reading.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Inanna
Ship's redhead
# 538
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Posted
Yep, I've got a lot of time for Mel White. I even got to meet him last time I was in America - Soulforce Detroit were protesting outside a Focus on the Family ex-gay conference, and he'd come to lend his support.
His story is pretty amazing too - his autobiography, Stranger at the Gate, is well worth reading. Basically, he used to be the speechwriter and ghost-writer for all the autobiographies of the great and the good in the US Evangelical world. Until he came out.
He's set up Soulforce to apply the non-violent principles of Ghandi and Martin Luther King to the right wing Christian world. He and his partner have moved to Lynchburg, so they now live right opposite Jerry Falwell's church. They sit in the front row and smile up at him each Sunday.
Well worth supporting in my admittedly-slightly-biased opinion
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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.
Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Thank you, Wood. I've printed and read the pamphlet, but I'll have to wait until I get home to look at the site.
Very interesting.
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Yours aye ... TonyK
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Just a post to ask if any of you have heard of American Evangelical gay rights activist Rev. Mel White.
He runs an organisation called Soulforce.
Sure. Soulforce is just a ways down the freeway in Laguna Beach. In 2000 the Presbyterians had their annual meeting here in Long Beach and Soulforce protested. The More Light Presbyterians had their worship service in the church I work for.
quote:
Particularly interesting is his pamphlet What the Bible says and doesn't say about homesexuality which gives a pro-gay argument from an Evangelical standpoint, without IMHO any of the "interpretational gymnastics" that some have been accused of.
Just goes to show how revolutionary it can be to read what the Bible actually says!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Chimakwa
Shipmate
# 3413
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Posted
Definitely heard of Mel White but hadn't seen that brochure before. Thanks for the link -- that is just the sort of thing that my parents could benefit from, being evangelicals themselves and appreciative of that style of exegesis..
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athanasia (n): to induce death by means of Quicunque Vult
(Shipmate Formerly Known as Anglicub)
Posts: 249 | From: Philadelphia | Registered: Oct 2002
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Innana wrote:
quote:
He's set up Soulforce to apply the non-violent principles of Ghandi and Martin Luther King to the right wing Christian world. He and his partner have moved to Lynchburg, so they now live right opposite Jerry Falwell's church. They sit in the front row and smile up at him each Sunday.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Priceless! That is PRICELESS!
Mel shall overco-o-ome...
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Thanks Wood, that is an extremely helpful pamphlet. Isn't Mel White the guy mentioned in 'What's So Amazing About Grace'?
(Several people I know read that book and thought it was absolutely wonderful and life-transforming 'apart from the bit about the gay man, such a pity he put that in the book'. Talk about missing the point. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif) )
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Yes - thats right. Mel White and Philip Yancey are friends, and whilst Yancey still doesn't feel he can 'cross the Rubicon' to a fully affirming position, he has , through that friendship, moved considerably.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Inanna
Ship's redhead
# 538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Priceless! That is PRICELESS!
It is ... but to me, the greater value is that fact that he and his partner are taking time to befriend individual members of Falwell's congregation; inviting them to dinner; and letting these people see that a gay couple is not something of which to be afraid.
That's the real miracle in this situation. And that's the way that lives and beliefs and attitudes are changed... slowly, just like Philip Yancey is experiencing. It's hard to pronounce God's judgement and hatred on homosexuals when you had a really nice evening round at their house last week...
Kirsti, offering an open invite to dinner at hers
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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.
Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
I've liked many of the things Soulforce has done in the past, but I have been hearing of a shift from engaging in respectful dialogue with their opponents to acts of civil disobedience and the like, which they didn't really do before. This sort of thing, whether I agree with all of their beliefs or not, saddens me. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
No, I don't agree. I think there's a place for this too. I may have thoroughly disliked the direct action taken by Peter Tatchell in the UK, but whatever way one looks at it, it was that which actually got the talks going again.
Non violent direct action is a long standing and honourable tradition, and sometimes it has a place.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I agree with your post, Inanna, and I hope mine didn't sound flip, because that was pretty much what I was thinking. You can't keep hating someone who adopts you as family.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
Non violent direct action is a long standing and honourable tradition, and sometimes it has a place.
Sometimes, perhaps, but I don't agree with the kind of disruptive behaviour they seem to be engaging in. I also don't agree with their theology, but I don't think it would be any more appropriate for more traditionalist sorts to do the same kind of thing at, say, the Metropolitan Community Church. It would be appalling and (for me) embarrassing if that happened, even if it were with regard to doctrines I agree with.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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