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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Yet more crappy choruses, wonky worship-songs and horrible hymns
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
And yet again church people (folk ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ) have this quaint belief that everyone will know the tune for Morning has broken - Bunessan - presumably because Mr Steven Georgiou aka Cat Stevens & Yusuf Islam) took it into the top 40 in 1971.
But that was 25 years ago - and in any case Bunessan played on an organ doesn't sound like that.
Worst wedding "song" I've had to deal with was an appalling number about the wedding at Cana to the tune of Morningtown Ride ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
'Folk' has a nice, quaint, rather old-fashioned feel to it - perfect for the kinds of people who still go to church in our illustrious country! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
As for 'Morning Has Broken' being an old tune, that's obviously all relative. It's not as old as the music that you like, is it?
I agree that it's perhaps not the right tune for a grand country wedding in an ancient church. I was thinking of something a little more humble.
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
Svitlana: you and I live in the same country: in my part of the world the inhabitants don't tend to use the term 'folk', associating it with either traditional dancing or tunes.
Bunessan modern! It is an old Scots gaelic tune first noted down in the mid-19th century, but probably much older than that.
As for "It's not as old as the music that you like, is it?" You have no idea of my musical taste, either on a personal level or in my work. As it happens a glance through the current music list shows tunes and music from 8th century plainsong to stuff written in 2014.
What I was getting at is that there is a quaint belief that schools still use things like the tune for Morning has Broken and Tell out my soul for assembly but they don't - having junior members of our choir who attend a number of local primary schools I can tell you that none of the current lot had ever heard either tune before hearing it at church.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
Yes, 'folk' meaning 'people' - certainly to this southern Englishman that usage flags up a certain kind of arty-wooden-pendant-cross-on-a-leather-bootlace, hand-thrown-earthenware-coffee-mug, home-eucharist-all-sitting-in-a-circle-on-the-floor, Sound-of-Living-Waters....well, if you were there or thereabouts, you'll get the picture. Pretty much the vibe of the Young Communicants group I used to go to c1981.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
As for "It's not as old as the music that you like, is it?" You have no idea of my musical taste, either on a personal level or in my work. As it happens a glance through the current music list shows tunes and music from 8th century plainsong to stuff written in 2014.
What I was getting at is that there is a quaint belief that schools still use things like the tune for Morning has Broken and Tell out my soul for assembly but they don't - having junior members of our choir who attend a number of local primary schools I can tell you that none of the current lot had ever heard either tune before hearing it at church.
On this thread you mostly seem to criticise modern church music rather than older tunes, so that's what I was thinking of. But yes, I'm sure there are many excellent modern composers.
Regarding schoolchildren, not many of them would recognise any kind of church music these days, I imagine, but CofE schools are probably a different kettle of fish.
I don't see many kids at weddings these days, though.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
(Except that quite a few couples wait to get married until their own kids are old enough to take part ...).
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've got to the age where I attend more funerals than weddings, but I can't say I've noticed that kids are less evident at weddings than they used to be.
If friends and relatives of the happy couple have got kids, they'll still take them to the wedding, surely?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Around here the local CofE schools are no different from the others, at least at primary level.
At secondary level - well, our local CofE comprehensive doesn't hold assemblies at all: they reckon an assembly is covered by a form teacher taking the register and dishing out notices. Once a term there is a house eucharist, but that is voluntary.
As for children at weddings, they're only going to be there if they are invited, and many modern couples choose not to have children - I suspect because of the reversion to a sit-down meal at the wedding reception. In my day there was a sumptuous meal but it was a buffet and rather more relaxed, but today its all seating plans and if the wedding is at noon they still expect you to be there for an evening do until the early hours
Something that is being requested more for weddings is the twee We pledge to one another: quite apart from the fact that it is written as for the happy couple alone singing it, it is pure Patience Strong. I'm sure it was written with the best of intentions but really...
Worst thing I've heard this wedding 'season'? Try this horror (first two verses only) which was read by a pair of the happy couple's friends quote:
He never leaves the seat up
Or wet towels upon the floor
The toothpaste has the lid on
And he always shuts the door!
She’s very clean and tidy
Though she may sometimes delude
Leave your things out at your peril
In a second they’ll have moved!
And on and on it went, ever more banal and toe-curling. It was the only reading at a wedding certified as being according to the 'rites and ceremonies of the Church of England. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Joesaphat
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# 18493
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Posted
From an Australian mate of mine, it's a thing down there, really
The scheming elders challenged Christ:
“What do you have to say?
We caught her in adultery.
We’ll stone her here today.
Come, teacher, speak! Why hesitate?
We know what Moses said.
The law is clear, her guilt is known,
And she will soon be dead.”
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Opening my mouth and removing all doubt, online.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Back to the 'come to a wedding' thing. Occurred to me today that it is of course well suited to be played waveringly on the flute by the same rather drippy friend of the happy couple who will massacre a bit of Pachelbel while the registers are being signed.
As for the ghastliness cited by l'o: oh for a vicar with the balls to say 'if you want that (certainly, if you want nothing but that) you can sod off to the country house hotel down the road'.
[ 24. April 2016, 14:02: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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Scots lass
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# 2699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Back to the 'come to a wedding' thing. Occurred to me today that it is of course well suited to be played waveringly on the flute by the same rather drippy friend of the happy couple who will massacre a bit of Pachelbel while the registers are being signed.
As for the ghastliness cited by l'o: oh for a vicar with the balls to say 'if you want that (certainly, if you want nothing but that) you can sod off to the country house hotel down the road'.
Oddly, the wedding where I came across it also had Pachelbel during the register signing. Mercifully on the organ, not a badly played flute! The whole wedding felt like it was based on what a church wedding ought to be like, rather than things the couple actually liked themselves. But then we were fortunate enough to have friends who were professional musicians and my husband's church choir take care of all the (very carefully chosen) music in my own wedding, so I thought there was a risk I was just being a bit snobbish. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the hymn is an abomination!
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
As for the ghastliness cited by l'o: oh for a vicar with the balls to say 'if you want that (certainly, if you want nothing but that) you can sod off to the country house hotel down the road'.
This surely is the nub of the matter. If we want non-churched folk to have weddings in our churches, then we must "bend" to suit them to a greater or lesser degree - although it irks me when they think they can just use the church as a "venue" and boss us around.
Conversely, we may want to be very strict and ask "why" they want a church wedding if they do not share our Faith? Unfortunately, while we may say that we are protecting their integrity by sending them to the hotel down the road, they will probably see it as a rejection by the Church.
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
Only 30% of weddings in England and Wales now include a religious ceremony, so that must mean relatively few churches are troubled by couples who have poor taste in hymns. Maybe the problem is now likely to be concentrated in churches of a very particular type - very picturesque and semi-rural, perhaps? CofE, obviously. I think most of the other denominations have less exalted expectations.
[ 24. April 2016, 15:35: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
Oh, I agree with BT that we need to 'bend' a bit. that's fine. But people marrying in church need to understand that it's not quite the same thing as getting married in a country house hotel: that they may need to bend a bit as well.
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
But few of the songs mentioned above are disagreeable based on CofE (or other mainstream Christian) doctrines. They're disagreeable mainly on the grounds of taste. But taste changes all the time, and it varies from person to person.
There's also a class element to it, and one can't help but see a cleavage between the class-influenced taste preferences of the CofE's leaders and cultural arbiters, and of the people who might come forward for a church wedding. (And I'm not talking primarily about what people earn. It all seems more subtle than that.)
Perhaps one problem for the CofE is that as a national institution people think they somehow 'own' it. They see it as a public service, like the NHS. If they want songs set to pop tunes, or something they sang in school assembly back in 1985, they can't see why they shouldn't get what they want.
Reduce the number of hymns sung during weddings then there won't be so much to disagree about.
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Reduce the number of hymns sung during weddings then there won't be so much to disagree about.
Of course there would. Because a couple is completely free to do that right now. The hymns are all optional - there's no need to have any singing at all in a C of E wedding. Certainly it is usual to sing hymns, but if a couple don't want hymns then that's perfectly possible.
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
I wonder how many actually cut the hymns out entirely? There must be couples who feel that having communal singing at a church wedding is somehow the done thing, even if neither they nor their visitors are really into singing, or church music.
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
There is a taste thing, you're right, and that really comes into its own where something like the toe-curling piece of tweeness that l'o mentioned rears its ugly head. But the thing is, if you are going to have any 'secular' readings or music (and my real shock was that that should have been included but no Bible reading at all), it's very difficult to draw a line on taste grounds: if you'd be happy with a Shakespeare sonnet you probably can't really say that you won't have some piece of utter cack if it means a lot to the couple. (Well, I suppose you might draw the line at something like 'We're a great team/You're my best buddy/I often dream/ Of you in the nuddy', but short of that.)And I imagine that most clergy are perfectly used to taking weddings and funerals which have features which they consider tasteless, so long as they're not doctrinally unacceptable. That's ministry for you. You have to let people have it and it's right that you have to.
[ 24. April 2016, 19:38: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Curiosity killed quote:
Most of these hymns are suggested on the CofE website on how to plan a wedding
I know. It doesn't make them any better, or even suitable, it just goes to show that whoever drew up the list has either had their critical faculties removed or is indeed the real-life caricature of the stuck-in-the-70s 'trendy' vicar.
If you think I'm being harsh, pause and reflect on what level - other than perhaps a passing slight familiarity with the tune - is Lord of the Dance a natural fit for a wedding. Frankly I can make a better case for O love that wilt not let me go and that has always been more associated with funerals.
As for the other music - ever heard of anyone walking out of church at the end of a wedding to Debussy's Clair de lune? Me neither.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh, I agree with BT that we need to 'bend' a bit. that's fine. But people marrying in church need to understand that it's not quite the same thing as getting married in a country house hotel: that they may need to bend a bit as well.
Agreed.
And, while we're at it - could we please have a moratorium on 1 Corinthians 13 which is NOT ABOUT WEDDINGS.
[ 24. April 2016, 22:00: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I wonder how many actually cut the hymns out entirely? There must be couples who feel that having communal singing at a church wedding is somehow the done thing, even if neither they nor their visitors are really into singing, or church music.
I think this cultural memory of what a wedding looks like is the only possible explanation for some weddings that happen. Everybody's seen weddings in films and on TV - they start "Dearly beloved", there's a bunch of mumbling, a bit of singing, and a public snog.
I was a guest at one (entirely secular) wedding where the assembled guests were invited to sing "When I'm 64" a cappella. This was a dismal failure, as it transpired that whilst most people more or less knew the tune for the verses, nobody at all could sing the bridges (words were provided, but no music - perhaps not the wisest choice) and there was no accompanist to keep it going.
The B&G were both honest atheists, and not going to pretend to a faith they didn't have in order to put on the traditional churchy trappings, but I can only explain the singalong with some kind of cultural imprinting of what weddings look like.
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And, while we're at it - could we please have a moratorium on 1 Corinthians 13 which is NOT ABOUT WEDDINGS.
No we couldn't. It might not be about weddings but it is about love. As long as some people consider love to be an important aspect of marriage then you'll be stuck with people wanting this to be read at their weddings. How can
quote:
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
be inappropriate?
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
I don't object to that bit, not at all - of course. But do we have to have the whole chapter, including the bit about "tongues", which is utterly incomprehensible to most people? The reading is being taken out of context.
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Salicional
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# 16461
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Posted
I don't think Paul is talking about love in the romantic sense in this chapter. Older translations use the word 'charity', which has an entirely different connotation -- more like how to get along with people you might secretly despise.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
Surely the point of 1 Cor. 13 is that it comes between 1 Cor. 12 & 14 ... it's about the loving use of charismata in a Church which was "hot" on spiritual gifts but extremely poor on motivation, relationships and humility. Obviously the principles of love can be applied to other contexts, but that's not why it was written.
[ 25. April 2016, 17:00: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
But what would be an appropriate Bible reading about romantic love? Something from the Song of Solomon?? St. Paul telling wives to submit to their husbands, and husbands to love their wives???
I think either would be okay, but it occurs to me that the Bible isn't 'safe' enough for most weddings.
But this thread is about music, and I have a business idea for someone: if you enjoy writing songs you could publish a book of lovey-dovey, CofE-friendly, alternative lyrics for well-known hymn tunes. You could even provide a bespoke service for bridal couples who want something extra special....
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
But what would be an appropriate Bible reading about romantic love? Something from the Song of Solomon?? St. Paul telling wives to submit to their husbands, and husbands to love their wives???
We had Song of Solomon 8:6–7 at our wedding:
quote:
Set me as a seal upon your heart,
as a seal upon your arm;
for love is strong as death,
passion fierce as the grave.
Its flashes are flashes of fire,
a raging flame.
Many waters cannot quench love,
neither can floods drown it.
If one offered for love
all the wealth of one’s house,
it would be utterly scorned.
And I'll admit it, we also had I Corinthians 13. Yes, we understood the original intent and context, as I imagine did many there. (Lots of clergy and others with substantial theological education in attendance.) But I have a hard time imagining words more apropos for those beginning married life than those quoted by Jonah the Whale above. To me, its use at weddings suggests something like the home as the place we practice love most intentionally, but with the expectation that doing so strengthens our expression of love in wider contexts.
I suspect Paul wouldn't mind—well, at least once he got past the fact that people are still getting married at all.
[ 25. April 2016, 18:40: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Salicional
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# 16461
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Posted
I've often thought that 'Fight the Good Fight' would be very appropriate for weddings. (Sung to Duke Street, of course.)
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
The 1 Cor 13 thing. I think I read it first in "The Road less Travelled". The understanding that the journey from falling in love to loving is difficult and problematic in our culture, because people are confused about the difference between romantic attraction and loving, 1 Cor 13 style.
Rather than have it at weddings though, it would be helpful for any couple to spend some preparatory time before the wedding (quite a lot of time actually) in considering its merits and asking the questions. Do we love each other that way? Can we love each other that way?
It's reckoned to have been a very early Christian song, or hymn. I suppose some crappy songs and choruses have been made up around it, but the original remains sublime.
[ 25. April 2016, 21:06: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I was actually asked to play Fight the Good Fight at a wedding some years ago. I believe that the couple is no longer a couple. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I was actually asked to play Fight the Good Fight at a wedding some years ago. I believe that the couple is no longer a couple.
Maybe their processional hymn should have been "Turn back, o man..."
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
I actually had a Vicar friend who conducted a wedding in which the bride "stood up" the groom at the altar. When he was asked, "Do you take ...?", he answered, "I do". But when she was asked, she said, "No".
I agree that it's better to say "no" rather than get caught in the wrong marriage, but why couldn't she have decided sooner?
One elderly guest, not realising what had happened but surprised that the service had lasted under 15 minutes, was heard to say,"These Anglican weddings ain't half nifty".
But it's sad rather than funny.
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
I've seen onward Christian soldiers for the entry of the bride. They had Glorious things of thee to Austria for the recessional.
They are still together and apparently very happy.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
I've seen onward Christian soldiers for the entry of the bride. They had Glorious things of thee to Austria for the recessional.
Just be glad they used "Glorious Things..." instead of "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" for the lyrics.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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mdijon
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# 8520
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Posted
I don't mind the tune Austria for a hymn. It's quite a reasonable tune, even if I wouldn't usually associate it with a wedding. It might have sounded more militaristic having had Onward Christian Soldiers before it.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
A month ago I attended a wedding abroad at which the single hymn was 'We pledge to one another', sung to the tune of 'I vow to thee my country'. The heaviness of the tune and the patriotic associations didn't appeal to me, I must admit.
Interestingly, the couple and most of their guests were religious people, so I'm wondering why something more traditional and 'churchy' wasn't chosen.
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
The tune may be a little heavy but it has in itself unimpeachably lefty associations: it's called 'Thaxted' because Holst lived in the village and was a mate of Conrad Noel, the Red Vicar there.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
“Set me as a seal” were the words of an anthem set by William Walton for the wedding of Lady Mabel Fox Strangeways at a fashionable London church. I believe Walton and Lady Mabel had been recent lovers.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Salicional
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# 16461
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Posted
We also had the 'set me as a seal' reading at our wedding. Most appropriately, the friend of ours who read it was the owner of a plumbing business.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Salicional:
We also had the 'set me as a seal' reading at our wedding. Most appropriately, the friend of ours who read it was the owner of a plumbing business.
A zoo keeper would have been even better.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
“Set me as a seal” were the words of an anthem set by William Walton for the wedding of Lady Mabel Fox Strangeways at a fashionable London church. I believe Walton and Lady Mabel had been recent lovers.
"Lady Mabel Fox Strangeways". That's very nearly a graffito, isn't it?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Actually it was the groom's mother, Viscountess Wimborne, who was the Walton link.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I was actually asked to play Fight the Good Fight at a wedding some years ago. I believe that the couple is no longer a couple.
Maybe their processional hymn should have been "Turn back, o man..."
When I was a kid the organist was about to get married to one of the women in the choir. Some in the choir said that we should sing "Led like a lamb to the slaughter" in the wedding.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
A month ago I attended a wedding abroad at which the single hymn was 'We pledge to one another', sung to the tune of 'I vow to thee my country'. The heaviness of the tune and the patriotic associations didn't appeal to me, I must admit.
The author is a member of a United Reformed Church in London. I don't know her, but I wonder if one of the reasons she wrote the hymn was to "liberate" the tune from its patriotic associations? - even though (as also with "Land of hope and glory" and "Austria") the music didn't originally have them anyway?
P.S. It's in "Singing the Faith".
[ 05. May 2016, 07:49: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
That's very interesting. The couple (and their families) have nothing whatsoever to do with the URC, and would find its theology very different from their own. I suppose they just wanted to find a tune and a lyric that they liked.
As it happens, I don't know 'Singing the Faith' very well as I started worshipping mostly outside the Methodist Church at about the same time that it was introduced. For me, 'Hymns and Psalms' is the Methodist hymnbook.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
Maybe their processional hymn should have been "Turn back, o man..."
We got married in my wife's RC church in Dublin. It was Lent (I know, I know - but I didn't know then, and nor did she apparently) and across the altar was a whacking great sign saying 'REPENT'.
As to music, we had (amongst other hymns - congregational singing itself being a bit of a proddy statement in a Dublin RC wedding) 'What will our greeting be, sign of our unity...one church one Lord'. Looking back I think her family must have felt they'd been invaded by (anti-) imperial storm troopers in the vanguard of muscular ecumenism. A younger groom could have excused such vanity ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I've just been sent the list of music for our Deanery Confirmation next month
There is a weirdness about it: hymns at opening, offertory and end are all standard, but at communion it is wall-to-wall worship songs, including an offering from Mr Kend***k and a horror called Only by Grace which sounds like something written for the Mike Sammes Singers.
So to add to the horror of the Supermarket Sweep style preferred by the presiding bishop we have stuck-in-the-70s drivel plonked in the middle of O Praise ye the Lord to the tune by Parry and Ave verum corpus by Mozart - and all to be rounded off by yours truly playing Bach's Komm, heiliger Geist from the Leipzig chorales.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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