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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Yet more crappy choruses, wonky worship-songs and horrible hymns
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Alas, I am guilty of the sin of inadvertent repetition. I'd be terrible at "Just A Minute". ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
actually there was only one violin! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Good job there wasn't another, and a saxophone as well- there's far too much sax & violins around as it is...
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
groan ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Anyway, the choir agreed that new-fangled instruments such as harmoniums and barrel-organs were nothing but miserable dumbledores.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The Mellstock Quire was right, of course, but if the Rev. Mr. Maybold had not had his way, young Dick would never have met Miss Fancy Day, and Mr. Hardy would have had nothing to tell about what went on under the greenwood tree.
O the benefits of a literary education!
Seriously, though, a lot of that old West Gallery music is very much worth singing, even today.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Chrisssmusss isn't Chrisssmusss 'til it happens in your harr
Yes, it is - that is if you're referring to "Christmas and your heart.
At first glance this saccharine little number seems to be about getting the "real meaning" of Christmas but in fact its all about me-me-me: nothing about Christ-child or greater wishes for peace, etc, just about the personal.
And sung almost entirely without consonants, flat, by a school choir it is enough to make the baby Jesus refuse to come out.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I once demonstrated what 'O little town of Bethlehem sounded like in their native woodnotes wild to the school, with some success in getting it not to sound like 'O li''uw town of beffle-em'.
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Not so much a horrible hymn as a terrible translation perhaps... In my view. I confess I know no Greek, and all power to those who translate for us, but I was reminded of this while bushwalking today. The Byzantine melody came back and so did the words.
This is how it is printed in my prayer book; Ode 9 of Matins:
quote:
Let every mortal born on earth carry his torch and leap for joy in the spirit. Let the angelic powers celebrate and honor the holy wonder of the Mother of God. Let them cry out: "Rejoice, all‑blessed Theotokos, pure and ever‑virgin."
Yet this is how it was at my first parish:
quote:
Let all earth-born mortals rejoice in spirit, carrying their lamps, and let the nature of disembodied Minds celebrate with honour the holy festival of the Mother of God, and cry out: "Hail, all-blessed, pure and ever-virgin Theotokos!"
I guessed it meant spiritual beings [never asked!], but I always had these visions of minds floating through space, apart from bodies. Probably says more about me. But I thought it an odd translation. I was glad to get a prayer book and see 'angelic powers' there.
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Ghastly hymn at church today. Jesus Christ is waiting, waiting in the streets, written by John Bell of Wild Goose fame. I found myself mentally creating a verse of my own as a reaction. If you know said hymn, hope you enjoy my verse which is about as inane as the other verses. Sorry everyone, I think I had a brain explosion.
Jesus Christ is kicking
kicking in the streets,
Playing with the football
Lying at his feet,
Listen Lord Jesus
I like football too,
But the coach is nasty
I can't play with you.
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Actually, we've had that quite often. What's so awful about it?
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
In my opinion the words are puerile and relegate our Lord to a member of a protest group. I also dislike the line 'Listen Lord Jesus' which I find an inappropriate way to speak to God. After all, God is there all the time and we don't need to tell Him to listen. All in all a poor piece of writing.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The tune is fine - its an old French carol (Noel nouvelet), although some people find getting the intervals right a bit tricky.
As for the words by John Bell, where to start? Banal, repetitive is a good start, but the theology is far, far worse; to give but one example
quote:
Jesus Christ is waiting, waiting in the streets
No one is his neighbour, all alone he eats
1. Who or what is JC waiting for? A friend, date, bus? This is just twaddle.
2. Christ said that everyone was his neighbour; in fact he used a parable to answer criticism from holier-than-thou types on this very issue.
3. Has John Bell not heard of the last supper, the feeding of the five thousand, etc? Yes, I know that we're going to be told that this all refers to Matthew 25, but that is referring to the last judgement which, I suspect, is not what Mr Bell meant to do.
Later on we're told that ..."Christ is raging in the streets": apart from casting out the money-changers from the temple, where exactly in the gospels are we told that we too should "rage" or be angry?
And then there is the "dancing in the street"; surely I can't be the only person to hear this and think of two things only: (1) the definitive version by Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, and (2) that the cover by David Bowie and Mick Jagger wasn't a patch on the original AND showed some pretty dodgy moves.
Above all else, why "the streets": it is all of a piece with church leaders trying to latch onto what they think of as "lively", "progressive" or "relevant": there is just as much genuine need (and belief) in the small hamlets and villages of Britain.
If anyone was in any doubt of the influences on Mr Bell's writing style, this child-of-the-60s banality explains all.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Above all else, why "the streets": it is all of a piece with church leaders trying to latch onto what they think of as "lively", "progressive" or "relevant": there is just as much genuine need (and belief) in the small hamlets and villages of Britain.
There are plenty of hymns about the beauty of nature, so why not sing about 'the streets', which is also an environment that many human beings experience?
I live nowhere near a 'purple-headed mountain', and the neighbouring 'river running by' is rather unimpressive, so perhaps it's inauthentic for me to sing about God's Lordship over them?
Perhaps congregations should be free to avoid songs and hymns whose setting they can't relate to.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
That reminds me of a recent conversation with a colleague, who had gone to a church at a remote place on the coast to meet with God.
While not doubting his spiritual experience (I respect him too much for that), I did ask him why "thin" places usually tended to be quiet, bleak and beautiful? It gives the impression that God has no interest in the city.
He agreed - which is by no means to disagree that churches need to serve rural communities just as much as metropolitan ones!
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps congregations should be free to avoid songs and hymns whose setting they can't relate to.
That would leave me with some very quiet mornings. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
As for Jesus being in the streets & eating alone - granted it's a long time since I've sung this, but I thought this was to do with the idea of Christ in everybody, coupled with a bit of Matthew 25 "When I was hungry you fed me..." etc. So Jesus is present in the person who is eating alone, and we are commanded to go and be with them. Also assuming that they don't actually enjoy eating alone, ofc.
Funny old thing, John Bell. I really ought to like his hymns - inclusive, trying to convey something of living out your faith in everyday life....and yet I really don't. The old French tune to the hymn above is beautiful, though.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I like a lot of John Bell and Wild Goose stuff.
But sometimes they just seem to be a bit too "worthy" to work well as hymns.
Might you, the same could be said of some of Charles Wesley's more theological efforts!
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
As for Jesus being in the streets & eating alone - granted it's a long time since I've sung this, but I thought this was to do with the idea of Christ in everybody, coupled with a bit of Matthew 25 "When I was hungry you fed me..." etc. So Jesus is present in the person who is eating alone, and we are commanded to go and be with them. Also assuming that they don't actually enjoy eating alone, ofc.
This.
As for the propriety of "Listen Lord Jesus," I guess we shouldn't sing "Lord, Listen to your Children Praying" either? Or pray "Hear our prayer, O Lord"?
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
That reminds me of a recent conversation with a colleague, who had gone to a church at a remote place on the coast to meet with God.
While not doubting his spiritual experience (I respect him too much for that), I did ask him why "thin" places usually tended to be quiet, bleak and beautiful? It gives the impression that God has no interest in the city.
He agreed - which is by no means to disagree that churches need to serve rural communities just as much as metropolitan ones!
Perhaps because it is easier for us easily-distracted humans to feel God's presence in quiet places? In cities there are a lot of noises, and sights, and smells, and lots of PEOPLE! God is certainly in the city, but we are sometimes too distracted to hear Him.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
... it is enough to make the baby Jesus refuse to come out.
Ouch.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
In cities there are a lot of noises, and sights, and smells, and lots of PEOPLE! God is certainly in the city, but we are sometimes too distracted to hear Him.
All true, of course - but God is present in people, just as much as in nature.
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
So last night I decided to attend the missionary fellowship that meets in this town....
They sang some good old hymns accompanied by a piano and guitar. The woman leading the singing had a beautiful alto voice.
So all good as long as I steer clear of discussing theology or American politics- which I did.
Then we sang the Matt Redman song "Ten thousand reasons". As modern worship songs go it's mainly ok- I like the tune but I could not get past the chorus which says:
Bless the Lord oh my soul
Oh my soul
Worship his holy name
Sing like never before
Oh my soul
I'll worship your holy name
Is it just me or is that ridiculous as the singer is addressing his/her own soul (fine and common in the psalms) but then that last line makes it sound like the singer is worshipping their own soul.
It really, really grated on me. Perhaps I'm being picky but why on earth don't people check these things more carefully?!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
It's more a question of bad grammar than bad theology, as I'm sure you'll agree!
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
in response to posts about Jesus Christ is waiting, waiting in the streets Leo posted quote:
...people find it 'moving'
Similar to prunes or senna-based products?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
It's more a question of bad grammar than bad theology, as I'm sure you'll agree!
Yes I do agree but I also sometimes fear that one to lead to the other..... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
I see what you mean, MrsBeaky, and yes it's naff grammar, but it I think it is that exhortation to the soul to praise God. And then I think MR couldn't be bothered to write something that scanned properly.
My loathing for MR is quite large.
I amused myself in church yesterday morning by discovering that one of the new songs what we are doing - "Come and see the glory of the Lord" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taaXdxZGDYw can be segued into Pearl's a Singer rather nicely. Simple things.
[ 13. February 2017, 14:45: Message edited by: Jemima the 9th ]
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
And I posted my last comment without checking it- so it too does not read well.....apologies I am working with a dodgy internet connection here in Kenya and it had a sudden surge in strength so I hit "add reply" and now regret that impetuous action! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
As for Jesus being in the streets & eating alone - granted it's a long time since I've sung this, but I thought this was to do with the idea of Christ in everybody, coupled with a bit of Matthew 25 "When I was hungry you fed me..." etc. So Jesus is present in the person who is eating alone, and we are commanded to go and be with them. Also assuming that they don't actually enjoy eating alone, ofc.
This.
As for the propriety of "Listen Lord Jesus," I guess we shouldn't sing "Lord, Listen to your Children Praying" either? Or pray "Hear our prayer, O Lord"?
And scripture got it wrong with the psalmist's 'Hearken O Lord...'
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Then we sang the Matt Redman song "Ten thousand reasons". As modern worship songs go it's mainly ok-
If you strip away the accompaniment the melody reminds me of a Celtic Air. But for the life of me I can't work out which tune it reminds me of.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I'm not sure if it counts, but I have "Seek ye first the kingdom of God" earworming at the moment, despite my arguing that the way it is phrased implies that the reason for seeking the kingdom is so that all those things shall be added, which isn't quite the point.
My mental playlist usually links stuff to what's going on around me - it hasn't picked up that I'm after subtraction rather than addition, anyway.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I'm not sure if it counts, but I have "Seek ye first the kingdom of God"
Are you sure it isn't Ralph McTell's Streets of London, which Seek ye first is melodically close to.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Ah, the "unintentional plagiarism" problem worship-song: there are so many which could be better described as a direct rip-off they could (should) have their own index.
And now you've mentioned SYFTKOG I have an earworm of my own: Let there be love shared among us, aka that well-known hit for Englebert Humperdinck Les Bicyclettes de Belsize ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Ah, the "unintentional plagiarism" problem worship-song: there are so many which could be better described as a direct rip-off they could (should) have their own index.
It happens in classical music too: compare the "Kyrie" from Mozart's Requiem with "And with his stripes" from Handel's Messia.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
And we won't even touch on musicals by a well-known and ennobled 'composer' ... Just maybe mention that a Guess the tune competition could be run at each of them.
Other plagiarised hymns? Well, The Beatles clearly took their inspiration for Yellow Submarine from Sweet Sacrament Divine - and don't get me started on the theme tunes to Z Cars and Open All Hours.
[coding boo-boo corrected]
[ 23. February 2017, 14:14: Message edited by: L'organist ]
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
I need to vent this somewhere, but you don't have to read it. Our minister really doesn't like music, but the more and louder the noise his band makes, the happier he is. The worst of his likes is a song called "Days of Elijah". It's just one from his large repertoire of vacuous musical tripe, and might even be tolerable if not for the wretched refrain, a pagan chant that goes, if I remember correctly (and I wish I couldn't), "There is no god like Jehovah", repeated something like twenty times to an orgasmic crescendo. I don't know about these other gods that we're singing about - when I was young there was only one of them. End of rant.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
And don't get me started on the theme tunes to Z Cars and Open All Hours.
When I was a child we used to say that the music for "Softly, softly" was "Z Cars" upside-down.
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Go west, with a grateful heart
Go west, to the holy one...
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
A more serious problem with "days of Elijah" is that bit about David rebuilding a temple of praise. He couldn't rebuild it - it hadn't been built the first time yet...
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Surely there's a joke in there: What do you get if you cross a Temple of Praise with a House of Straw?
Answers on a postcard..
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Surely there's a joke in there: What do you get if you cross a Temple of Praise with a House of Straw?
Answers on a postcard..
I was going to say 3 little pigs or perhaps House of Gold - like this?
I almost like Days of Elijah - I mean, it makes little sense to people with some understanding of the Bible, and would be entirely incomprehensible to someone who'd just wondered into church, and it's a bit triumphalist, but go at it at 100mph with a tambourine, and it's alright.
The refrain is:
Behold he comes!*
Riding on the clouds
Shining like the sun
At the trumpet call
Lift your voice
It's the year of jubilee
Out of Zion's hill
Salvation comes.
That was from memory, we may have sung it a few thousand times.
*Stop giggling at the back.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Definitely "Seek ye first" It had the words with it.
Today my internal playlist search engine, responding to an article about a Chinese 3rd age music group playing the Ode to Joy on flutes, delivered up as an earworm the Seekers going to the Emerald City. Not a worship song, but similar.
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Dennis the Menace
Shipmate
# 11833
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Go west, with a grateful heart
Go west, to the holy one...
We are doing that tomorrow and will now have to not sing those words!!
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"Till we cast our crowns before Him; Lost in wonder, love, and praise."
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
And we won't even touch on musicals by a well-known and ennobled 'composer' ...
You can't, surely, be referring to
this?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I knew it would be that even before I clicked the link! Love it.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
bump
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Went to a church the other week- lovely place, which shall be nameless- everything good except they were using Hymns Old & New- with a shelf of New English Hymnals sitting unused at the back!
I mean, just why? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I recently learned that a mate's mother (lovely lady, very musical, decided in her opinions yes, but a good sort) has started to exhibit kleptomaniac tendencies in relation to hymnals: whenever she visits a church with a hymnal of which she disapproves she "accidentally" takes it with her at the end of the service. It seems that these are almost exclusively published by presses owned by our friend Mr Ma**ew.
She claims to be acting as directed by the spirit...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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