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» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Dead Horses   » Yet more crappy choruses, wonky worship-songs and horrible hymns (Page 4)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Yet more crappy choruses, wonky worship-songs and horrible hymns
Albertus
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No no, not complaining, and point taken.
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L'organist
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Mea culpa Tony. Point taken.

For the record: KM is a brilliant, innovative, creative, musical and literary genius whose contribution to the hymnody of the church in the UK is without parallel. Marie, Queen of Romania

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Arethosemyfeet
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Hmm... my experience is that HON and other KM products are nearly as bad at mangling words as some others I could mention, and a fairly competent young organist of my acquaintance regularly reached for HON in preference to certain other volumes.

Perhaps it is a matter of comparison. If you're used to A&M, then HON will appear dire. If, on the other hand, your point of comparison is Mission Praise and CH4, HON comes as a blessed relief.

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L'organist
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Anyone else noticed just how well Let there be love shared among us fits to the chorus of Les Bicyclettes be Belsize ? So much so that I think the publishers for Les Reed (who wrote the song as sung by Englebert Humperdink) should be alerted since its more-or-less a straight steal.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
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Alex wrote

quote:
Of course - you need a good bassist to carry "Lord I lift your name on high". The groove is what carries this one...
I _think_ I might have once heard a bass player use this for this one.

And the line 'really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree' might be dropped in as an allusion to song of songs...though there, I think, bunches of grapes are the methaphor-du-jour...

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
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...and (indignation building) - Enoch wrote

quote:
Only a few days ago, I encountered a badly mangled version of 'Be thou my vision'
In my sisters evo-charismatic-anglican church I heard this done...in 4/4 [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] so the lame-ass guitar band could play power chords all over it [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]

I'd love to find a way to get 'Come down O love divine' squeezed into a service of theirs (after all, it's a powerful charismatic hymn about the Holy Spirit). But what'd they do to the 6-6-11 metre???

Yes, yes, 4/4, I know...

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
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Oi! The 4/4 version of "Be Thou my vision" can be incredibly effective when done with a bit of feel and sensitivity. You just watch your step there, Mr Mark In Manchester.

[Biased]

Anyway, what makes you think you can't drench a 3/4 song in power chords? [Snigger]

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
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Well, 3/4 is just a slow 6/8, I guess...in which case these people have been making something of a career of it for some time.

(If, by some total freak accident of musical preference, you're unfamiliar...wait 'till the end of the intro).

I'd travel some distance for a 'time of praise and worship' in this particular style. Just what we need to speak to the yoof [Big Grin]

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
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I am not entirely unfamiliar [Smile]

I have been known to deliver "Give thanks to the Lord" in a shameless boogie-woogie style before when feeling Puckish ...

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
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I (and this shows how long it is since I played in a praise band) used to do 'seek ye first' a-la Housemartins 'Happy hour again'.

All of which is entirely relevant to the OP - such cultural syncretism now makes me wince.

Or is it I just no longer know who the praise band are taking off.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
...and (indignation building) - Enoch wrote

quote:
Only a few days ago, I encountered a badly mangled version of 'Be thou my vision'
In my sisters evo-charismatic-anglican church I heard this done...in 4/4 [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] so the lame-ass guitar band could play power chords all over it [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]

I'd love to find a way to get 'Come down O love divine' squeezed into a service of theirs (after all, it's a powerful charismatic hymn about the Holy Spirit). But what'd they do to the 6-6-11 metre???

Yes, yes, 4/4, I know...

Actually, Mark, I'm much less bothered with fiddling with tunes, as long as the end result doesn't get across the words altogether. It's a fairly recent idea to think each hymn should have its own tune and only that tune. That's why they have the numbers, 7,6,7,6,7,6 etc. What outrages me that a hymn book that claims to be respectable, and which commends itself for use, should think it knows best and presume dramatically to foul up a familiar, well known, well written and loved hymn.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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There's not a hymn book with a 4/4 version of Slane in it is there?

We should all pray St Patrick's Breastplate against such horrors!

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Alex Cockell

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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
Alex wrote

quote:
Of course - you need a good bassist to carry "Lord I lift your name on high". The groove is what carries this one...
I _think_ I might have once heard a bass player use this for this one.

And the line 'really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree' might be dropped in as an allusion to song of songs...though there, I think, bunches of grapes are the methaphor-du-jour...

That would be the line...
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
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quote:
mark_in_manchester:
Or is it I just no longer know who the praise band are taking off.

You don't need to know: it'll be one of Coldplay, Snow Patrol or U2 [Smile]

quote:
Karl: Liberal Backslider
here's not a hymn book with a 4/4 version of Slane in it is there?

Depends whether you count it as a hymn book, but it appears in a number of Spring Harvest books from 2000 onwards, billed as "Ancient Irish melody". Doubtless in lots of other places too.

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
...and (indignation building) - Enoch wrote

quote:
Only a few days ago, I encountered a badly mangled version of 'Be thou my vision'
In my sisters evo-charismatic-anglican church I heard this done...in 4/4 [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] so the lame-ass guitar band could play power chords all over it [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]

It's common in traditional Celtic music to hear a tune as a march and rearrange it as a jig or hornpipe, whatever is needed. Nothing to see here, move along.
quote:

I'd love to find a way to get 'Come down O love divine' squeezed into a service of theirs (after all, it's a powerful charismatic hymn about the Holy Spirit). But what'd they do to the 6-6-11 metre???

Yes, yes, 4/4, I know...

I've heard it done over a hip hop beat with a guy on record decks scratching. Not as bad as that sounds, really.

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Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
ن
blog

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Sarah G
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell:

Of course - you need a good bassist to carry "Lord I lift your name on high". The groove is what carries this one...


Like this bassist?


Incidentally, I knew a bassist who adapted the bass line to “Summer Loving” for “Lord I lift your name on high”. You just adjust the tempo, play an extra verse line, and it fits the verse beautifully. First time he did this, there were a few 'come again?' looks, but people soon caught on.

Example

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Garasu
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Sarah G. said:
quote:
Like this bassist?
At 1:47 I lost the will to live...

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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
Sarah G. said:
quote:
Like this bassist?
At 1:47 I lost the will to live...
It took you that long?

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by me on 14th October:
... Only a few days ago, I encountered a badly mangled version of 'Be thou my vision'. This provoked in me an 'I don't believe it' reaction. It was in a hymn book which is a notoriously bad offender. Pulping is too good for it. ...

I appreciate this threat seems to be 'resting' at the moment, but I've discovered it was in a book called 'Sing Glory'. Have any shipmates encountered it, or do any know anything about it?

Bearing in mind the comments in the thread on defamation, I hesitate to speak the name of who does seem to be the publisher.


As Christmas approaches, does anyone feel inspired to be rude about their less favourite carols? A baby would have to have divine fortitude not to burst into tears at yet another 'Away in a Manger'.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Enoch
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Sorry 'threat' in the first line should be 'thread'.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Stejjie
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Sorry 'threat' in the first line should be 'thread'.

Actually, given some of the horrors being discussed here, you perhaps had it right first time...

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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by me on 14th October:
... Only a few days ago, I encountered a badly mangled version of 'Be thou my vision'. This provoked in me an 'I don't believe it' reaction. It was in a hymn book which is a notoriously bad offender. Pulping is too good for it. ...

I appreciate this threat seems to be 'resting' at the moment, but I've discovered it was in a book called 'Sing Glory'. Have any shipmates encountered it, or do any know anything about it?

Bearing in mind the comments in the thread on defamation, I hesitate to speak the name of who does seem to be the publisher.


As Christmas approaches, does anyone feel inspired to be rude about their less favourite carols? A baby would have to have divine fortitude not to burst into tears at yet another 'Away in a Manger'.

Yes, has to be 'Away in A Manger'. Also 'Adam lay y-bounden' (too tweely medieval revival for me, though I do warm to it a bit on looking it up on wikipedia and seeing that it comes from a manuscript whose other contents include 'I have a gentil cok'...).

Just looked up Sing Glory. Looks dire. Published by the people I'd guessed it might be.
[Frown]

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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Nowt wrong with "Adam lay ybounden", but it should be pronounced according to Middle English norms. Much better that way.

'Away in a Manger' has given me the horrors since I was in short trousers.

[ 06. December 2012, 22:02: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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ThunderBunk

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Christmas always rekindles my hatred of the efforts of Mrs C F Alexander. So misguided, so unjustly loved.....

[brick wall] [Projectile]

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Nowt wrong with "Adam lay ybounden", but it should be pronounced according to Middle English norms. Much better that way.


I suppose so. But it's hearing it sung in ever-so-nice contemporary voices that puts me off it: the archness of the whole thing when done that way. The sort of thing you can imagine Linda Snell pushing into the Ambridge carols to try to raise the cultural bar, IYKWIM.
My really shocking Christmas music confession is this: I don't like John Rutter's work. Not crap- oh no, very much not crap- but far too 'tastefully' polished for my liking, what I've heard of it.

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Baptist Trainfan
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Well, I like "This is the truth sent from above" sung in a raunchy, folk-y sort of way.

But my organist doesn't.

I also like to hear "O come, O come Immanuel" sung with each line as a complete arching phrase, without intervening bar-lines.

[ 07. December 2012, 08:22: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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womanspeak
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I've just discovered on you tubes three great new kids Christmas songs that are so uncool that they're cool - particularly with the actions.

Written and performed by an English Vicar - David Heath-Whyte and available from his website www.maynardsgroovytunes.org.uk. I downloaded the Christmas Album JUMP WITH JOY.

They are all new to me and my seven classes of eleven and twelve year olds this week really got the irony and the fun. Biblically accurate too.

GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST
LORD YOU'RE SO TOTALLY COOOL
AWESOME AND BRILLIANT
MAGNIFICENT WONDERFUL
JESUS YOU ROCK AND YOU RULE.

My fairly traditional rector has gone ahead and bought the whole catelog!

So not creepy with the right audience and the correct "vibe of the thing" as we Aussies would say.

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from the bush

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Enoch
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Why do we have to sing Once in Royal David's City, when we could be singing this?

I defy anyone to listen to it, and not end up playing an air violin with a happy smile on their face.

The church in the snow, by the way, is Sheffield Cathedral.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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Albertus wrote
quote:
My really shocking Christmas music confession is this: I don't like John Rutter's work. Not crap- oh no, very much not crap- but far too 'tastefully' polished for my liking, what I've heard of it.
Pffft! Iut if you want to see what crap looks like when polished up, I recommend his "Candlelight Carol", a particularly ripe example of the "Mistletoe and Wine" genre.

There are several examples of this outrage on Youtube, including one with the score so you can sing along to annoy the neighbours.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Albertus wrote
quote:
My really shocking Christmas music confession is this: I don't like John Rutter's work. Not crap- oh no, very much not crap- but far too 'tastefully' polished for my liking, what I've heard of it.
Pffft! Iut if you want to see what crap looks like when polished up, I recommend his "Candlelight Carol", a particularly ripe example of the "Mistletoe and Wine" genre.

There are several examples of this outrage on Youtube, including one with the score so you can sing along to annoy the neighbours.

Yuk. I'm too fond of my neighbours.

The line,
"How do you measure the love of a mother, how do you write down a baby's first cry",
says it all.

If I said 'so terribly BBC', would anyone know what I meant.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Albertus
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Yes.
Completely with you on Old Foster, by the way- applied for a couple of jobs in Sheffield earlier this year and I do remember thinking that proximity to the local carol tradition would have been a minor bonus of getting either. (I got neither, BTW).

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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

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Arethosemyfeet
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quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
Christmas always rekindles my hatred of the efforts of Mrs C F Alexander. So misguided, so unjustly loved.....

[brick wall] [Projectile]

I have to say I do like some of her work. Much as I loath ATB&B, I will forgive a multitude of sins for the sublime translation of "St. Patrick's Breastplate" that she penned.
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Lucia

Looking for light
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Why do we have to sing Once in Royal David's City, when we could be singing this?

Is this the point when I interject my Christmas claim to fame that H J Gauntlett who wrote the tune to 'Once in Royal David's City' is my ancestor? The great (great?) grandfather of my paternal grandmother if I recall correctly. [Smile]

[ 07. December 2012, 18:31: Message edited by: Lucia ]

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ExclamationMark
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"All I once held dear built my life upon" sung to the tune of "76 Trombones" anyone?

Go on, go on, you know you want to

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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
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quote:
I've discovered it was in a book called 'Sing Glory'. Have any shipmates encountered it, or do any know anything about it?
Known amongst a sub-set of the musicians at our shack as "Sing Poorly".

I loathe that book with a passion. It's the worst of all possible worlds. "Modernised" words for old songs; awful layout on the page; a buggering nightmare to actually find songs because the alphabetical index is hidden at the back, but not right at the back; thoroughly random and snobbish choice of songs; arbitrary choice of which items are 'songs' and which 'hymns' and will therefore have guitar chords given, thus limiting general usefulness even more*l chap who edited/collated it clearly so far up his arse it's untrue.

This last caused some consternation when I discovered that one of my friends had him for a tutor at London School of Theology. She point-black refused to pass on my lack of regards [Devil]

Back in the day when we still used books, Sing Poorly was forcibly introduced by a dubious coalition between the then senior minister and one of the organists. Is outrage! didn't even come close to covering it.

*If some of the more modern songs had been over-printed with "On NO ACCOUNT try to play this on the organ" I might have had more sympathy with the apartheid approach. Grr. Travesty. Grr. Stupid ill-conceived and badly executed bloody orange book.

Fortunately I don't feel strongly about it.

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Starbug
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# 15917

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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
"All I once held dear built my life upon" sung to the tune of "76 Trombones" anyone?

Go on, go on, you know you want to

Genius! Never tried that before. Must have a word with our organist... [Big Grin]

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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

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Aravis
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# 13824

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I've probably mentioned this before, but try "Meekness and Majesty" to Verdi's "La donn'e mobile"...
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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I also like to hear "O come, O come Immanuel" sung with each line as a complete arching phrase, without intervening bar-lines.

Unaccompanied, adult male voices only for a real shivers down the back experience.

This is as good as music gets.

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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# 38

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quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
I've probably mentioned this before, but try "Meekness and Majesty" to Verdi's "La donn'e mobile"...

For the more traditional congregation, "Jesus lives, thy sorrows now" can be sung to the tune of The Stripper.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

'Away in a Manger' has given me the horrors since I was in short trousers.

Cheer yourself up. Sing it to the Wombles theme tune ("Underground, overground, Wombling free et al").

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Albertus
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# 13356

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Singing 'As with gladness men of old' this morning, I noticed that Hymns Old & New gives us 'As their gifts they gently laid/ at that manger roughly made' (or something like that) for 'as they offered gifts most rare/ at that manger rude and bare'. Now, before the Hosts start having kittens, I am not accusing Kevin Mayhew of changing this for any disreputable reason. The reason appears to be obvious: the suspicion that choirboys will snigger at 'rude and bare'. (This is presumably thee same reason all mention of sods is dropped from 'Thou didst leave thy throne and thy kingly crown' and 'Good King Wenceslas'. )

The suspicion is, of course, perfectly well-founded, if today's kids are anything like we were. But isn't it a bit pathetic for a hymnbook editor to take notice of it?

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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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SImilarly, the same KM book as altered George Herbert (how dare he?) from 'thou didst note my working breast/thou hast granted my request' to 'thou didst note my ardent zeal/thou hast granted my appeal' in 'Seven whole days' I tend to stick with what Herbert wrote!

Church I was at this morning had AMNS for most of the hymns but we had 'We three kings' out of a book of worship songs with a familiar feel to the typesetting (yes it was KM!) and it had altered 'all men raising' to 'gladly raising' which I ignored -- singing hymns half from memory has advantages!

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

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Gill H

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# 68

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Oooh, you have to have the working breast! It's terrible when your breast isn't working. How else do you get 'the cream of all my heart'?

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Margaret

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# 283

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Not the least of the joys of leaving my old church is that I need never sing from HON again - almost every week there was a hymn which the editors had made a mess of. My new place uses Common Praise and it's bliss to have the Proper Words again!
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Why do we have to sing Once in Royal David's City, when we could be singing this?

Is this the point when I interject my Christmas claim to fame that H J Gauntlett who wrote the tune to 'Once in Royal David's City' is my ancestor? The great (great?) grandfather of my paternal grandmother if I recall correctly. [Smile]
And what a lovely tune it is!

Worth remembering that dear Mrs Alexander was writing many of her hymns as sort of Bible lessons for Sunday School children; easy poetic ways for kids to learn the story of Jesus. It has to be said, she does seem to have succeeded.

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Sergius-Melli
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# 17462

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To add one post to this thread before it seems to dissappear back into the depths of DH - IMO the most hideous of changes to a hymn:

'Onward Christian Pilgrims' from 'Onwards Christian Soldiers'

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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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To be fair Onward Christian Pilgrims is a new hymn which happens too share its tune and first two words with another hymn. One of the things HON has a thing about is military language. And I'm heading that way myself. Certainly I was glad that the version of For all the saints we sang on All Saints Day outside Church House as people gathered for an arms fair omitted those verses and replaced them with verses on martyrs and the like. It was a better version than KM's though. Again new material rather than mangled old material.

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

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L'organist
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# 17338

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If you're bored have a go at putting the words of "Sing of the Lord's goodness" to Dave Brubeck's Take Five - you won't find the "original" the same ever again [Smile]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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ArachnidinElmet
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# 17346

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
If you're bored have a go at putting the words of "Sing of the Lord's goodness" to Dave Brubeck's Take Five - you won't find the "original" the same ever again [Smile]

We used to do this at school, or at least we used 'Take Five' as an intro. It's stuck in my head forever now, and made watching the recent tv programmes about Dave Brubeck a big problem.

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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka

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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513

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[Killing me] You too Can Write a Praise Song. [Big Grin]

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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.

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