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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Dead Horses Book Repository
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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I thought I’d see if we could produce a list of key books relating to Dead Horse topics.

Books are often referred to in the various debates, but it’s difficult to trawl through an entire thread searching for a book whose title you can’t quite remember. And while thread-reading is fun and instructive, books can be, too.

Here are a couple of suggested guidelines:
  • Posts should specify the topic dealt with, the book’s author(s) and full title, wherever possible a relevant link, and a few words on why you are listing it for the Repository.
  • Books must be ones you’ve actually read!
  • You don't have to agree with the position of the books you recommend, but they should be ones you deem significant: because they are a widely-acclaimed go-to book on the subject, or because they offer a good summary of the issues, or because they have had a major influence on your own thinking, or indeed because you think they represent the best defence of a view you oppose or formerly held.
And in an attempt to keep the thread from becoming a debate thread in its own right:
  • Posting simply to agree with a book recommendation someone else has posted is OK, but any post expressing disagreement must take the form of an alternative book recommendation.
The goal is to provide suggested reading, not discuss the issues – that can take place as usual, on dedicated threads.

I have a couple of ideas for books, but I’m happy to see whether anybody else is interested in picking up on the idea first.

So welcome to the Dead Horses Book Repository: have at it!

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

Posts: 16985 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110

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Seems strange to be recommending a book which was written in 1977, but in my opinion, although it is a bit dated here and there, it remains for me one of the best and certainly most readable analyses of biblical inerrancy.

Fundamentalism - by James Barr

The summary and the three customer reviews are helpful. And Barr's more pastoral "Escaping from Fundamentalism" is a good companion to this major work.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Jack the Lass

Ship's airhead
# 3415

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Re fundamentalism/inerrancy, I'd also recommend Keith Ward's "What the Bible Really Teaches: A Challenge for Fundamentalists". Meaty but very readable.

The other Dead Horses topic book I'd like to recommend is an ethnography, Gail Kligman's "The Politics of Duplicity: Controlling Reproduction in Ceausescu's Romania". A devastating account of the years in Romania when abortion was banned in all but the most restrictive of circumstances. It's a stunning and important book, and really helped crystallise my own thinking around abortion.

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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog

Posts: 5750 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Thanks for contributing!

Women's ministry:

Women in the Church: a Fresh Analysis of 1 Timothy 2:9-15, ed. Andreas Köstenberger: the book that I taught complementarianism from.

The Trinity and Subordinationism by Kevin Giles: the book that put the final nail in the complementarian coffin for me.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

Posts: 16985 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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A quote from Kastenberger when interviewed about his book
quote:
Paul here teaches that women will be preserved from falling into Eve’s error, namely straying from their God-ordained role centered on her family and her home, if they devote themselves to their proper sphere of primary involvement.
I think that is about as offensive towards and about women as one can find.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4603 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
A quote from Kastenberger when interviewed about his book
quote:
Paul here teaches that women will be preserved from falling into Eve’s error, namely straying from their God-ordained role centered on her family and her home, if they devote themselves to their proper sphere of primary involvement.
I think that is about as offensive towards and about women as one can find.
It's offensive as all get-out, but it's also tautological. Women will be preserved from straying from their God-given role if they just devote themselves to their God-given role. Where one can only assume "devote themselves to" means "don't stray from." Um, yeah, so?

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 62941 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman.

This describes the contrast between Old Testament history (Genesis through to 2 Kings) and what they see as the archaeological evidence. What's interesting is that although their view of the Bible's historicity is as low as you can get while still remaining mainstream (for example, they reject the idea that Israel and Judah were ever a united kingdom), they still clearly have a very great love and respect for the texts.


Quarks, Chaos and Christianity by John Polkinghorne, which does more or less what it says on the tin. I like this in that it is a useful contrast to the creationist debate - Polkinghorne is a particle physicist who became an Anglican priest, so he knows his stuff and has no time for creationism in the 'Genesis is literal' sense, but at the same time he does see evidence of creation in nature.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

Posts: 7100 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I think that is about as offensive towards and about women as one can find.

I know my rules for this thread are only suggestions, but I'd like to reiterate them:

- the idea is that posts on this thread should consist of a reference to a book you have read. If we get into simply posting our feelings about how books referred to treat the issues, we will have started an entire Dead Horse board within this thread...

- posting a book does not mean you agree with it, it means it is one you have read which you deem significant to understanding where various constituencies are coming from in the debate.

Mousethief and L'organist, I'm sure you must have read some books falling into that category. Fancy sharing them here?

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

Posts: 16985 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870

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On the subject of biblical inerrancy, I would cite Taking God at His Word by Kevin DeYoung.

My review of it is here, with a conservative response to my review here.

It's not at all a good book, but if you want to get an insight into how a biblical inerrantist thinks (or how they don't, as the case may be), then it's fairly clear.

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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile

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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807

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I read a very interesting book called: Building God's Kingdom

By: Julie Ingersoll.

Amazon link here: http://www.amazon.com/Building-Gods-Kingdom-Christian-Reconstruction/dp/0199913781

It's basically an ethnographic study of the Christian Reconstructionists in the US. I read it because I wanted to get my head around how the heck these people come to the views they have (know thine enemy etc) it was very illuminating and certainly helped me get inside their heads even if it wasn't a pleasant experience.

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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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On issues surrounding the Bible and homosexuality I found The Good Book (Peter J Gomes) to be both interesting and helpful.

It's not a slam dunk definitive answer, and there are holes, but it's thought-provoking, and considerably more coherent than the refutations that I managed to locate after reading it (I was looking for balance).

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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On the subject of the nature and interpretation of Scripture, I found the two volumes Models for Scripture and Models for Interpretation of Scripture by John Goldingay to be both thorough and readable. Probably addressing a more Evangelical audience than the Ship, but presenting a compelling case for a more nuanced (and more fruitful) approach than Inerrancy.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668

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I am not sure if this is the right place to note it, but I just read the obit for the nominal author of the Left Behind pot-boilers, Tim Lahaye.

In a Glasgow Herald review Ron Ferguson described his stuff thus: The material is based on the tired work of nineteenth-century English cleric J N Darby, who cobbled together disparate biblical prophecies and turned them into an influential system with the snappy title "pre-millennial dispensationalism". Left Behind presents the United Nations as a satanic world government - a popular theme on the American religious right. These same Christian right-wingers believe that Israel is entitled to fill the west bank with settlers, and that Jerusalem must be controlled exclusively by Israel.

Seems like current US Republicans may have found him to be a useful resource.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Actually, I believe LaHaye died a couple days ago.

For an iMHO healthier view* of end times possibilities, try "The Coming Of God", by Sr. Maria Boulding, who was a Benedictine nun, hermit, and theologian at Stanbrook Abbey.

The last line is something like "We are unconditionally, irrevocably loved". I glanced at that in the store, and figured a book on the Second Coming that ended that way was worth reading--and it is.


*I say this as someone who grew up fundamentalist.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17647 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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WHY CATHOLICS CAN'T SING Theculture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste by Thomas Day (Crossroad, New York 1990)

Well written and at times very funny. And he also has concise, practical advice for those seeking to establish or improve music in churches.

While he writes specifically about the RC church in the States, what he has to say is relevant across all denominations and outside the US.

I lend this to friends I can trust to give it back: 3 have gone on to buy a copy to give to their PP - 'nuff said?

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356

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Reminds me- small tangent- of conversation with RC housemate one evening, about the time that book was written. He'd just been to evening Mass and I'd been to Evensong.
Him: 'ood evensong?
Me: yes, thank you. We sang 'the day thou gavest' and 'the Church's one foundation'.
Him: Hmph. We had 'colours of day' and 'I see the sunrise'.

His explanation for the low standard of RC congregational music was the limited ability of most of the guitar-playing nuns upon which, he said, many parishes relied for their music.

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
His explanation for the low standard of RC congregational music was the limited ability of most of the guitar-playing nuns.

This does not jibe with my recollection of growing up Catholic. There was a nun -- don't remember her name, but she was an excellent organist -- who played at the children's mass. Granted, she selected pure schlock for hymns, but her voluntaries were memorable. She also conducted a small children's choir for funerals -- the Gregorian Missa Pro Defunctis.

I recall reading the book many years ago. I no longer have a copy, but as I recall, the premise was that the music was basically unsingable.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Louise
Shipmate
# 30

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bumping up for housekeeping reasons

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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.

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anteater

Ship's pest-controller
# 11435

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l'Organiste:
quote:
WHY CATHOLICS CAN'T SING
Amen to that. Really good fun and interesting.

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Schnuffle schnuffle.

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