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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: T&T: The "Leather" Thing: Tentatively stepping out and posting...
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
If nothing else, it could go to Dead Horses. I definitely think it should be saved as a background reference as long as you remain active in the Ship community. No need to keep explaining all this over and over.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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mysticlisa
Ship's seer
# 2867
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Posted
Dear brother Chas... I appreciate what you're doing here so very much. I don't know that I could ever open up so candidly. Blessings on you.I am confused... more by my own background than what you've shared here... So here are a few questions. I want to premise my questions first, though, with the hope that my words do not come off sounding critical in any way, for that is not what I am feeling. I value what you are sharing. Just to clarify... my upbringing was VERY sheltered (picture chubby little blond sitting in fundamentalist church 3+ times per week). I left that church after divorcing my abusive husband of ten years. I learned much about the world (World?) from that experience and in my training/practice as a clinical psychologist in San Francisco... but that's not helping me here, for those experiences are very different from what you're sharing. I had a former patient that described herself as a leatherwoman... but her lifestyle and views were very different from yours. She was into pain. And pain inflicted by a dom was a sexual stimulant.
Here's my question... Is pain part of your process? How is that beneficial? Or (dare I say it?) Biblical? I recognize I tend to lean too far toward the gentle loving God picture (more personal baggage here... need that gentle nurturing in my life right now)... And I appreciate your "bondslave" (doulos)analogy... God is not truly God unless S/He rules my life. So another question comes to mind... What about a balanced view of God? You seem to suggest an unusual (to my limited understanding) relationship with your master... more father/son than dominant/submissive. Is this true of any other folks in your tribe? Another question: Is there any potential of this lifestyle being damaging to your influence over other young believers. You seemed to have gained from your relationship... but I guess I still am wondering how common this is in the leather community. I am curious about your master. Do you feel you may have put him in the place of God in your life... I know there have been many times when I've wished there were a voice from heaven that would say, "Do this... Do it now." I wish even more that I had the ability to trust someone else (a human) enough to obey without question. How did your master/slave relationship develop? I'm very interested in the fact that your master wasn't a man of faith... Didn't this get in the way at all??? What did he think of your faith? Thanks for tolerating my long post and all my questions... In Christian love,
lisa
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"More things are wrought by prayer
than this world dreams of."
-Alfred Lord Tennyson
Posts: 483 | From: my laptop | Registered: May 2002
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mysticlisa:
Blessings on you.
Thanks!  (blush!)
quote:
I had a former patient that described herself as a leatherwoman... but her lifestyle and views were very different from yours. She was into pain. And pain inflicted by a dom was a sexual stimulant.
Here's my question... Is pain part of your process? How is that beneficial? Or (dare I say it?) Biblical?
Yes, pain is part of what I am into. How is it beneficial? Not sure how to answer this if you cannot relate to it -- certainly, up till recently, pain (as well as fasting and various kinds of asceticism) being a part of tradition, ritual, spirituality, etc. has been around, and approved of in a Christian context, for millennia. As for Biblical, first of all I am not at all a sola scriptura man, but we do have St. Paul's mentioning that he "beats his body," which many take as non-literal these days. But I see tradition as the way to understand Scripture rather than the other way around for the most part.
I would also add that I don't believe in genuine damage at all -- no blood especially, just for safety reasons. Which in many ways makes me (and most of the contemporary leather community) more "vanilla" than many of the great saints who would flagellate themselves until they bled. But then, they didn't have some of the health risks we do today either, or know of them at least.
quote:
So another question comes to mind... What about a balanced view of God? You seem to suggest an unusual (to my limited understanding) relationship with your master... more father/son than dominant/submissive. Is this true of any other folks in your tribe?
Well, first I'd say that I think I do have a balanced view of Him. That seeing Him as Master in a very personal sense is a part of that -- and also that for me, my relationship with my own earthly master/daddy was/is both father/son and master/slave, rather than just one or the other, or even one being primary over the other. But then, to me, father/son is a hierarchical relationship; I'm old-fashioned about that. And in the leather community we have all sorts of permutations and combinations of such things, yes!
quote:
Another question: Is there any potential of this lifestyle being damaging to your influence over other young believers. You seemed to have gained from your relationship... but I guess I still am wondering how common this is in the leather community.
What influence over young believers? As to whether it is "damaging," my first question is whether or not it is true -- i.e., is our era avoiding many things (hierarchy, dealing better with same-sex intimacy, dealing better with our bodies) we ought not to avoid dealing with? The leather (and gay) communities are the only ones I know which are dealing with these things, albeit often in combination with sex. Gaining from such relationships is indeed very common in our community, though of course this is subject to the same issues as any other relationship -- some are good, bad, better, worse, etc.
As for "young believers," if any ask me about this, I'll happily be honest with them, though I don't discuss such matters with people who are underage.
quote:
I am curious about your master. Do you feel you may have put him in the place of God in your life...
I've worried that at times. But then I look back at tradition and what my faith actually teaches and realise that this is not the case. I do need to somehow make my relationship with God more three-dimensional -- before I met Master, I was very 2-D. And my (conscious) relationship with God was also fairly 2-D, but bigger than anything else I had in my life. Now that I am more 3-D, thanks to Daddy, I want to make my relationship with God the biggest 3-D relationship in my life. Somehow. The problem of course is that that 3-D-ness is largely more up to Him and realising that is what I need to do, rather than being able to organise and plan it into existence. Dealing with my emotions and all that as well...
quote:
I wish even more that I had the ability to trust someone else (a human) enough to obey without question.
Well, it wasn't quite being robotic like that. As Master often said, "If I just want a piece of meat, I can buy it at the grocery store, and if I want it hot, I can microwave it, but I want men with minds." Responsive, responding, responsible. Not robotic or a "super-submissive." Passivity is not a good thing.
quote:
How did your master/slave relationship develop?
We met at opening night at the Tampa Eagle, a leather bar which has since closed, alas.
quote:
I'm very interested in the fact that your master wasn't a man of faith... Didn't this get in the way at all??? What did he think of your faith?
I wouldn't say he was not a man of faith; he was raised Unitarian Universalist, himself, and did believe in a creator of the universe, even a master of the universe (insert obvious pun here). When he found out (the night we met) that I wanted to grow in discipline so I could be a better slave to Christ, he was very pleased and took that as part of his responsibility to keep me on track as well, with prayer, church, trust instead of panicking, etc.
quote:
Thanks for tolerating my long post and all my questions...
No problem; that's what this thread is for! Hugs! David
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
So you want Christian sanction for your sin?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not:
So you want Christian sanction for your sin?
[HOST HAT ON] This is getting dangerously close to too personal for Purgatory (or TPFP). We debate issues here in Purgatory. Please stick to same or the thread will have to be closed, or moved to Hell. [HOST HAT OFF] Reader Alexis
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Sorry, have I misunderstood? We aren't talking in any way about sex or paraphilic activity outside of heterosexual, Christian marriage?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Hmmm, 4 and probably 6.I therefore unqualifiedly apologise. But in that case I wonder where the border is? I see that I have strayed over it, but the very nature of the thread is one seeming to be a proclamation of Christianly unorthodox sexuality to which only declarations of 'understanding' if not approval are invited. I will endeavour to rephrase my responses or say nowt.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not:
I therefore unqualifiedly apologise.
Unqualifiedly accepted! *HUG*
quote:
I see that I have strayed over it, but the very nature of the thread is one seeming to be a proclamation of Christianly unorthodox sexuality to which only declarations of 'understanding' if not approval are invited.
Well, no; this is a discussion board. Of course from my point of view it is quite orthodox, indeed more orthodox than modern attitudes, but that's part of the whole thing. It might be best to start at the beginning and see if some questions/thoughts have already been addressed, or raise other questions or thoughts for discussion.Since the boards are going into suspended animation for two weeks, though, and the time here is about 3 PM in the afternoon, I may not get to answer (or even see) comments/questions till two weeks hence, as I am at work with limited time online. But I'll do what I can. At the moment I have about 2 hours before heading home and probably won't be online tonight at all. Hugs again, to all!
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Dang. I'm very sorry, I had indeed missed CM's declaration of celibacy, Oriel. Thanks. The blighter (that's you CM) seems all too decent and forgiving. Rats. This is going to do my head in, I know. I once got in to a superb debate with a gay radical on Christia, I think. Couldn't fault the guy. Disagreed with his premiss but not what logically followed at all, we got along famously. Sheesh. Well CM, young feller, me lad, still think you're in to a paraphilic area you'd be better off out of, but what are you going to fill the vacuum with? You seem frighteningly genuine and I'm concerned for you. But you've got this far without me! You want God in 3D. His demands are greater than I can bear, but perhaps not for you. I tell you 'straight', weak hypocrite that I am, you will have to forego The "Leather" Thing. All of it. That's a coupla commandments gone to hell ... Regards - fascinated, open, conservative, gobsmacked by grace - Martin
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Well, I suppose we can be free to disagree, as for me the Leather Thing is, in fact, part of the way I approach my theology. Or rather, the way my theology has played out in the way I approach life, leather and otherwise. See John Donne poem and related things above...
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Despite my desperate attempt to obtain credibility with the middle-aged, intellectual hard-man avatar, which is an idealization of what I actually look like (who is that guy?), my inadequacy runneth over. I thought that CM's previous image was of himself (Hello David!).
Furthermore, from a more careful (and it couldn't have been less and more superficial and knee-jerk) reading of the entire thread, I conclude that you are exactly what you say on the tin: an orthodox ... guy with a particular inculturation.
Like the Sioux, I still have reservations, but I just wanted to acknowledge your journey, CM: this isn't me pretending to be a huggy liberal (which I both am in practice but not in theory!), I'm just perplexed and realise that's the way it has to be.
Am I being too obtuse as usual?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The thanks should be entirely mine, David - and if I could hug my VERY pagan mate (buddy) Andy (who's been on TV in his best dress, as he put it) last Friday night, in the company of an Aberdonian trawler skipper and a regimental farrier, I can certainly reciprocate your hugs.
This is getting all very Iron John!
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
I like Iron John a lot, actually; I think he's spot-on about modern men and their problems relating to each other, themselves, etc. Was a member of a men's group for a while once also. Drummed in woods, sweat lodges, etc. It had its moments...
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
I was in the "2002 Mr. Chesapeake Bay Bear" contest on Saturday... and...
My pic from the contest is online! Wow!!
(One guy is in a g-string in the pic, though not me, so decide whether you want to click on this link at work.)
http://www.metroweekly.net/snapshots/index.php?k=44
I am in the second pic, on the far right -- not the best pic of me, really, and my hand is in a goofy position (we were all standing in a way which suggested the Rockettes to me, so I was doing the high-kick thing just to be silly, as we were all having fun with it).
I didn't win (I did make first runner-up in the 2000 Mr. Suncoast Eagle contest just before I moved from Florida to the DC area, though!) -- the big guy with the leather sash did.
A close-up of this pic is here:
http://www.metroweekly.net/snapshots/pic_viewer.php?p=2002-06-27_44_542.jpg&k=44&d=2
Yes! ChastMastr in black briefs! Wow! (One guy is in a g-string in the pic, though not me, so decide whether you want to click on this link at work.)
I must now go and see if the print version has me in it too.
Strangely, their snapshot page has a "bonus page" listed but it links to the same pics, so maybe there are more forthcoming. Not sure!
Thanks, Metro Weekly!
Wow, I'm famous! Sort of...
Hugs all!
David
silly exhibitionist orthodox guy
[additional warning added as requested]
[ 27 June 2002, 17:20: Message edited by: Alan Cresswell ]
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Um, while I don't think the above pics technically violate the two-click rule, nor does one see anything one can't see on a public beach, there is a guy in a g-string at the other end of the pic from me, so could some kind, kind, dear, sweet host post this, in bold above, not below, those links for me?
(One guy is in a g-string in the pic, though not me, so decide whether you want to click on this link at work.)
I do wish I could edit my own posts. I'd love for interested parties here to see this, but I don't want to either get anyone in trouble ("Ooo! A link! I'll just click on it... hey, what was that a few lines down? Oh, it's opening... AIEEEE! Close that window NOW! Oh, erm, hi, Mr Supervisor, Sir, I didn't see you standing there...").
Hugs all!
David
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif) ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Embarrassed orthodox guy who should have thought more before hitting "add reply"
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
God Bless you, Alan Cresswell!!
(Yes, I know, if the censors see this, they'll amend it to "Gesundheit, Alan!")
David
steals-jokes-from-old-issues-of-"Ambush Bug" orthodox guy
(but still very grateful to Alan)
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Two things:
(1) I have been thinking about it and I really have been a bit too exhibitionistic in the last two weeks or so, so -- well, could some kind host or admin remove the links above? If people really want to see the pic, they can go to my LiveJournal (link is below, in my sig), and I think that link may not really be appropriate for this site. I should have posted "If you'd like to see the pic, send me e-mail" or such, in retrospect.
(2) I just came out to my parents today on the phone. My mother handled it better than my father did, and I hope telling them was the right decision. Any prayers for this situation to work out as well as it seems to be would be appreciated. They don't know about the leather and I may not tell them. I hope this is not going to be a bumpy ride.
The last couple of months have been really extra stressful for me, and I appreciate the way everyone has been accepting of me despite a few too many salacious jokes and references. Despite all of that, I really do look on leather etc. as a way of life for me, rooted in discipline, etc., which has truly been spiritually beneficial for me -- and I suppose I don't want some aspects of that (the pics above, for example) to overshadow the important stuff. (And the pics really weren't leather-related as such, though a couple of guys are wearing it; the camaraderie in the club is a part of it for me, but it wasn't really, technically, relevant to this thread per se.)
Does anyone have any more real questions to ask? If not, then perhaps this thread could be archived or moved to Dead Horses? I'd be pleased as punch for it to remain a resource to point curious people to, but if there's no real new ground to cover, there's no need to keep it going.
Many hugs,
David
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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likeness
Shipmate
# 2773
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Posted
Just spotted this on a poster for the London Transport Museum, Covent Garden which is curiously, if tangentially, relevent. Thought you'd appreciate it, Chast. And if it serves to expose people to this thread who've not seen it before, all the better.
It's an image of a happy couple bearing the caption:
- That's where you purchased my ticket!
- Just smelling the leather seats on the Undersground brought it all back to me.
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The eye is the lamp of the body.
Posts: 464 | From: No. 43 | Registered: May 2002
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
*chuckles* ![[Happy]](graemlins/happy.gif) Sorry I've been away... yes, I have noticed that "kinky" ads are more popular now (see the ad gallery -- many of them! over on the Altoids website -- and many others over on the appropriate section of The Commercial Closet as well, which includes the Macho Mint Altoids ad I couldn't find on the Altoids site).
Hmmm, from leather spirituality to minty freshness. How strangely vanilla this thread has become. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Asaltydog
Apprentice
# 3062
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Posted
Just wanted to let you know.... have been reading this thread for the last 3 1/2 hours, and I'm not even half way through! Your openess, honesty and grace has had me in tears. I'm a happily married 30something with two kids, and I find myself increasingly out of step with a lot of my contemporaries on a lot of issues - or maybe I'm just getting liberal in my old age?! Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for getting the grey cells going again, and I'll reply again when I've finished the whole thread....
Don't sweat the petty things or pet the sweaty things
Posts: 19 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Moschops
Ship's dinosaur
# 3034
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Posted
Hi CM (and everyone else)...
I'm new here (been around about a fortnight, and had no access to the web for a week of that due to family holiday), but I just wanted to encourage you. In the posts I've read (and there seem to be an awful lot of them) where you've responded, I have found you to be intelligent, honest, open and faithful.
I admire you hugely for this post and may God bless you for the courage you've shown in holding true both to yourself and to your faith in Him.
Yours in Christ,
Chris.
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"A salesperson's first job is to make you miserable, because happy people don't want anything." - Scott Adams.
Posts: 559 | From: The Permian Period | Registered: Jul 2002
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Anonymous 4
Shipmate
# 2898
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Posted
I don't have anything to add really - except that I was still thinking about this thread when tramping up and down the aisles of the supermarket just now.
Which left me wanting to say thank you for daring to tentatively step out. It was nice to be thinking of thread for reasons other than wanting to disagree........
We walk on holy ground here when others are so vulnerable and brave in sharing.
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Goreu Awen Gwirionedd
The best inspiration is truth
Posts: 55 | From: Bournemouth, UK | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
The London Underground ad says 'that's where you punched my ticket' actually.
As in the young lady in Carry On Up The Kyber: "What a funny way to punch my ticket!"
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Asaltydog:
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for getting the grey cells going again, and I'll reply again when I've finished the whole thread....
blush Thank you!! *hug*
quote:
Originally posted by Slubgob:
...I just wanted to encourage you.
more blushing
Thank you -- as you may have seen in my journal, I could use it right now, which is one reason I've not been posting much the last few days. I was actually, erm, thinking of not reading/posting almost entirely (I'm struggling with time management as well as everything else), but it looks like I will have to make some time! ![[Heart]](graemlins/heartpump.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous 4:
Which left me wanting to say thank you for daring to tentatively step out. It was nice to be thinking of thread for reasons other than wanting to disagree........
still more blushing
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
The London Underground ad says 'that's where you punched my ticket' actually.
I've never seen the original references for all these -- but then anything can be salacious if we only try. ("And then we... baked a cheese omelette." "So?" "No, I mean we... baked... a cheese omelette... know what I mean, say no more?" "And then we... edited the article... we debugged the program... ")
David
... posted to the Ship...
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Sort of an update on my life, adapted from a PM to a friend on the Ship
... I could use prayers very much though -- I had a good long talk with a friend, and have realised that while Daddy will always be my Daddy, and he will always be my Master, I need to move from focusing on it as (regarding his teachings, at very least) a master- slave relationship to more of a master- pupil relationship, and that it can be even stronger -- and seeing myself somewhat as a person going off to college after the comparative micro-management of both teachers and parents in high school living at home -- moving to a model of a self-directed (not self-focused) life -- is helping. In many ways all this is quite painful but also exhilarating, makes sense to my Reason, and feels right -- and does not contradict anything I know of in Scripture or Tradition, or in what Daddy taught me. (I bring all that up because whenever I hear the phrase "it just feels right," my warning bells go off.)
So for the last week I've not been wearing my chain with the padlock, nor Daddy's ring -- I've been treating both in a spiritually fetishistic sort of way ever since he died, as if they're my touchstone for our relationship and if somehow I lost them, I'd lose him -- and whatever the reality is of my belief that "he is always with me," I don't believe it's dependent on my retaining any physical thing he gave me -- and I think I have more of a sense of that now. But for the first few days not wearing them really hurt a lot -- which was, for me, a sign of being kind of addicted to them.
I will probably wear the chain without the padlock, and the ring -- but with a different attitude than I've been taking. I feel like I'm growing up in some ways that I never have before.
I'm certainly always going to be a slave to Jesus, of course.
I'm working on taking what Master taught me and using it rather than putting it on a shelf and looking up at it sadly and longingly (which is what I've been doing for a while), to sum it all up.
HUGS!
David
sort of in college now
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr (way back on 30 June):
Does anyone have any more real questions to ask? If not, then perhaps this thread could be archived or moved to Dead Horses? I'd be pleased as punch for it to remain a resource to point curious people to, but if there's no real new ground to cover, there's no need to keep it going.
And the posts since then back this up. Hold tight for a gallop with other dead horses.
Alan
Purgatory host
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Thanks, CM and welcome to the paddock!
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Yours aye ... TonyK
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
In a further development, my foster uncle and I have ceased to be uncle and nephew. (It had not been working out for about two years or so.) I think realising how deeply I've been grieving for Master has helped me let go of various things I was clinging to. And I think I jumped into the uncle/nephew thing rather too quickly, partly because of missing Daddy so much...
Strangely the more I let go of certain things, the closer I feel to him. In some ways the more I let go of clinging to him (Master/Daddy) the closer I feel to him...
Still on sabbatical re: my taking on anyone as a leather subordinate for now.
David
slowly growing orthodox guy
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Oh, My God! It's MEEEEEEE...
Well, more or less, anyway, about a year and a half ago. I embarassed myself mightily on a trip to Florida. Strangely, I wasn't as bad as that when I actually lived in Florida. But I was like, "Hi! I'm gay! Did I mention I'm gay? Gay gay gay?" Eeee...
I did get better, though I still make salacious jokes here on the Ship, little exhibitionist though I am.
This just seemed an appropriate thread to post this on.
David
"His friends should give him time to figure out how his newfound sexual openness will fit into his larger persona. Eventually, he will level out and become more like the Mark they used to know. In the meantime, his friends will have to endure a lot of annoying conversations about 14-inch dildos and what he'd like to do to Rupert Everett. Christ, I don't envy them."
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Foxy
Shipmate
# 2409
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Posted
Hi David--
Just read this dead horse thread from beginning to end, with only a break to read the Onion you then referred to--that article cracked me right up.
I'm no stranger to the gay community--"some of my best friends"...and my husband's brother...and the theater community at large.... And I live in the heart of Boys Town. But the leather thing has always somewhat baffled me, and I've never known anyone into it well enough to ask, so your words/links of description of that particular tribe have been very useful. But mainly I've found fascinating your individual point of view, and how leather intersects/describes/informs your Christianity. In our Father's house are many rooms, indeed. Praise God for that!
So I just wanted to add my thanks to everyone else's for your honesty and openness about this very personal subject.
Posts: 499 | From: 11 blocks west | Registered: Mar 2002
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