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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: HEAVEN: All Things Breadish
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I have been infected by my viewing of the great British bake off, and the search for the perfect breakfast. I am now actively considering making bread.
But.
I have no experience, no equipment and a burning desire to find shortcuts.
Bread machines seem very expensive and not necessarily quicker. I have heard rumours of a no knead method ? And the possibility of making breads from nut flours, GBBO mentioned exotic phenomena known as "enriched doughs". I have heard of dough whisks and come across this.
I am hoping to harvest the wisdom of fellow shippies ...
[ 09. January 2015, 14:48: Message edited by: Firenze ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
I use my breadmaker to do the hard work, then knock it back and do any fancy stuff by hand. It then has to prove for an hour before going into the oven.
It's not a terribly quick way of doing it as the breadmaker takes an hour and 35 minutes, so from raw ingredients to warm and fragrant loaf is around 3 hours. However, there is a 'Quick Dough' setting that takes just 6 minutes, which would make it very quick.
I have to admit that I haven't tried it because it seems impossibly quick - but it wouldn't be there if it didn't work!
It's just a basic breadmaker, and didn't cost very much - I've had it for years, but I think it was around £25-£30.
[ 12. October 2014, 21:08: Message edited by: Drifting Star ]
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
If you want your bread to rise well, you need gluten in the dough. I buy bread flour, which is high-gluten. When I make whole wheat bread, I add vital gluten. (I buy it in the grocery store.) I don't know how to bake with nut flour. I suspect you need to use primarily wheat flour to make it rise.
I have a bread machine which I bought twenty years ago. I don't remember what I paid for it, but I'm sure I got my money's worth.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
The breadmaker is used for pizza dough and banana bread.
The good bread comes from a small bakery in Slaithwaite. We could never bake to their standard, especially the sweetened wholemeal and honey and sunflower loaves.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Slaithwaite is a fantastic name !
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I also make my dough in the breadmaker and shape and bake by hand, though I seldom prove mine afterwards for more than half hour (usually I don't leave it in the breadmaker for the full dough setting time either). I have a reasonably priced Morphy Richards Fastbake.
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Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
I have no oven, so a bread maker is the only way my wife and I are going to have fresh bread. What brands of bread makers are good? Is it possible to get a good one for under $100? Any advice is welcome because I do love me some fresh bread. I am getting more and more dismayed at the quality (or lack thereof) with bagged bread purchased at the local Kroger or Walmart. Yuck.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
I'm on my phone and links are a stone bitch, but over thataway in the recipe thread I posted my bread non-system. I find it very easy and low maintenance, though it evolved after lots of experience with the stuff so it may not be the place to start.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Found Comet's bread post.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I have a fantasy of ground nuts and cocoa featuring in a no knead recipe.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I have been baking 3 to 6 loaves per week, most weeks, for going on 25 years. I do this at home,for about the first 15 years fully by hand, in the last 10 at home with a kitchen mixer, and when camping or at our cabin, by hand. Funny that this should come up just after I put the dough aside after the second mixing.
A few points. First, if using flour that contains gluten then some activity to develop the gluten to become elastic and smooth is required, but not if gluten free. Developing gluten by hand is either kneading, or roll and fold. Roll means rolling it dough out fully so it is less than 1/4" thick, folding it up, and repeating. I know people who use a pasta maker lasagna setting for this, but I do it by hand.
Second, modern bread recipes, either for by hand or via bread machine, try to hurry things along by using sugar and large quantities of yeast. This creates loaves that stale faster. Example: the most recent kitchen mixer came with a recipe book for a 2 loaf mix, wanting 2 tablespoons of yeast and 2 T of sugar. Traditional methods I use 2 teaspoons (t) for 3 loaves.
Third, all flours are not the same. Hard Canadian spring wheat is higher in protein and gluten than UK and USA flours. You need to get bread flour in the UK, whereas I can use any all purpose flour here.
Without writing a book on this, and feel free to PM me as well, here's my 'go to' method;
1. mix 1.5 cups of water with 1 t of yeast, add 2 cups of flour, stirring 100 times in the same direction. 1 cup of flour is about 140 g. It actually doesn't matter if it is approximate Put a plate or lid on a large mixing bowl and leave this aside for 12-48 hours in your kitchen (I've left it for up to a week, you have to stir it down to de-gas because the CO2 slows things: it will rise and collapse. Very goopy this step.
2. when ready to proceed, add another 1.5 c of water, 2 t of salt, 1 more t of yeast and 2 cups of flour and stir this. You can leave this aside for several days.
3. add enough flour to make a dough that doesn't stick to your hands. Because you did the stirring as described above, a lot of the gluten is already developed. You may roll and fold or knead at this step. Then put into a bowl with some oil to keep it from sticking and protect from drying and put a plastic bag over it. You may leave it in your kitchen or put it into the fridge. It may be left for a couple of days. f you're not ready to bake, you may knead it down.
4. divide into 3 pieces and put into oiled or buttered loaf pans, let rise and then bake.
5. baking. Put into a cold oven with a pan of water in the bottom, turn over to 425F (gas mark 6 or 7 = very hot), but you don't want gas flame or element hot above the loaves. Bake for about 18 mins and then lower to 325 of 300 (gas mark 2 or 3) and bake for another 18. Take out and put on a rack to cool.
Note: the cold oven means the bread will 'oven spring' more, with the hot temp at the start to give a really dark crust, and water keeps things hydrated and non-burning.
Monitoring bread in a oven you've not baked in before goes without saying. And also if you bake in a fire (I use a dutch oven) or on a gas barbeque. I have also baked on methanol (meths) alcohol stoves, but that's another story.
You can do the first steps easily in about 10 mins during the week (I often do it a breakfast on a weekday). The amounts of water and flour used, coupled with wait times, and baking with a pan of water in the oven, mean that the bread has a higher hydration percentage than other breads.
This keeps it fresher longer. You do not need to add sugar or a fat like oil or butter. I don't usually.
Recommend starting with mostly white, nonfancy flour for first attempts. You can add interesting and exciting ingredients later. This creates success which means you'll do it again. About half the people who have come to my house to learn stop after an attempt or two. It takes some commitments. I view it as a discipline, like going to church.
Sorry for the excess length of this post. If you want pictures, of essentially 'bread porn', let me know.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Yes please !
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Forgot to add this link: The Fresh Loaf website, lessons link .
thefreshloaf.com is a good resource but it is easy to get carried away by interest into excessively exotic things IMHO because so many professionals and bakers for a living post there.
PM for pictures and more detail if you want DT. It will be Tuesday at the earliest, we're at the lake for the Thanksgiving Long Weekend and have only cellular internet, sketchy at best. I am excited that people are excited about bread.
[ 12. October 2014, 22:02: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I've had years out of my £50 Panasonic.
Basic as it is, it has a delay start setting, so if you wanted a loaf fresh and quivering first thing, you could have it (though it's a bit difficult to slice). Generally I put a loaf on at dinner time, take it out and leave to cool before bed.
Or if you want freshly baked, there's always the oven-ready croissant (sorry, URL not viable under UBB). We told a French acquaintance about these and he exclaimed in a shocked tone 'That's terrific!' I suspect that was not quite the adjective he was going for.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Polly Plummer
Shipmate
# 13354
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Posted
I used to love kneading bread - a great release for aggressive feelings! - but now I'm on gluten-free I don't get the chance any more.
Posts: 577 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Do you not knead gluten free doughs ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Do you not knead gluten free doughs ?
No. Just mix. Lots of experience with it. One of my children has Coeliac (Celiac) Disease (gluten is toxic). It is very difficult to get texture just right, and the quality of bread is less than anything wheaten or glutenish. When she was visiting from the UK 2 weeks ago, we had to fumigate the kitchen, I made bread in advance to avoid glutenizing her. It is like kosher, except that the slip-ups would make her ill for several days to several weeks.
Best advice IMHO re gluten free bread is don't try to make a loaf at all, rather make flat breads and other things that don't try to pretend to be gluten containing bread.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
"Enriched Doughs" are anything other than flour, water, salt and yeast in a dough. Usually this is a "shortening" such as actual shortening, margarine, butter or eggs. These shorten the gluten strands of the bread interior, known as the crumb.
French Baguettes are a straight dough. Sandwich bread is an enriched dough as it contains eggs, usually.
The other way to cut down on kneading is to use a sponge, otherwise known as an indirect dough. You mix part of the flour, the yeast and the water (plus whatever else you added) and let that bubble up for 90 minutes. Then you add in the rest of the flour and the salt. The yeast develops the gluten strands in lieu of kneading. You'll still have to knead it a bit, but not as much.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
... if you wanted a loaf fresh and quivering first thing, you could have it (though it's a bit difficult to slice).
It's much easier with an electric knife.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
We bought a bread-machine a few years ago (IIRC it was half-price in Canadian Tire and cost $50) and it's one of the best purchases we've ever made. After a few attempts with varying degrees of success at making the "machine-does-it-all" recipes we came to the conclusion that you want to be a spendthrift with the salt, and a miser with the yeast (we usually reduce the yeast amount by about a quarter from what's specified).
Then we discovered the "dough cycle" and the sheer unadulterated pleasure of making our own French sticks. The machine does the hard work, and you get to do the therapeutic bit - rolling and shaping it. It really doesn't bother me that it takes quite a while - I just go off and do something else while it gets on with it.
One or other of us makes a batch of three at least once a week, and D. makes focaccia for sandwiches, which is also v. nice.
I really can't stress enough the feeling of achievement I get when I take the bread out of the oven. Also, a single French stick costs around $2 at the supermarket; a 10kg bag of flour costs less than $10 at Costco and makes about 45 sticks.
You do the maths ... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Everyday bread is bread machine (Morphy Richards). But I am really creative with additions - sprouts, apple, carrot, seeds, nuts, oats, garlic, herbs, different oils, etc)
Friday bread (challah) is made by young Galilon. He does the dough in the BM then kneads and plaits the loaves by hand.
Special occasions - no knead whole wheat (Alison Holst) with topppings eg salt+kelp mix, oats, seeds, etc
Been making our own for many years - on the 3rd BM or maybe 4th
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I use my 30+ year old Kenwood chef to make most bread dough, then knead by hand both times.
Dough for things like croissants and brioches I do on a very large board.
I try to use superfine flour - usually either bought across the channel or from a deli in Cardiff; wholemeal flour I sometimes get from a mill at a (fairly local) museum.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
It seems all you regular bread makers, bar no prophet, do use a machine.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
I don't use a machine, although I don't count as a regular breadmaker any more (I should start making my own again, it's much nicer). I have two basic recipes - one for wholemeal or brown dough that I usually make into rolls and a really nice one for Italian flatbread that uses olive oil instead of margarine and is very quick to mix up (PM me if you want it).
Still takes about an hour to rise plus half an hour or so proving time, though. I am not an expert, but I thought the point of a breadmaking machine was that you could put all the ingredients in it and then go off and do something else for three hours while it made the bread for you? If you're making it by hand, you can go off and do something else while the dough is rising but you have to keep going back to it.
I've never had good results from those packs of dry-mix yeast, though; I always use the old-fashioned stuff that you have to reactivate in water or milk before you mix it into the flour (because I'm too shy to walk into a baker's and ask them to sell me some fresh yeast).
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
It more 4 to 5 hours on my machine, but yes, provided you've been accurate about quantities, there is your lovely, warm loaf. Given the problems with my hands, and the lack (in winter) of a reliably warm place for proving, I doubt if I could make bread otherwise.
The downside is that machines can be a bit fussy if you try and tinker too much with the recipe. That said, I must go and start a loaf: chilli and Parmesan or a sultana brioche? Decisions, decisions....
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
When we had a breadmaker it was only used for mixing and kneading anyway.
Semi-wholemeal rolls are our favourite although the Italian recips are gaining in popularity, and Olive bread, which has whole pitted olives in is a meal in itself.
Many find breadmaking, including the physical aspects of kneading and knocking-back, rewarding in themselves. Then there's the bread!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
I used to have a breadmaker but got rid of it. Results were varied, it used space I didn't have, and frankly I couldn't be bothered with it. I also hated the hole in the middle where the paddle was.
I'd periodically made bread by hand, but a couple of years ago my maternity leave coincided with me getting into the GBBO. I bought a copy of Paul Hollywood's 'How to Bake' and ended up making a lot of bread.
Something about his basic recipe just clicked. The book is full of useful information too.
It does help if you have the sort of day you can mix a bit, knead a bit, leave a bit, knead a bit, but it's less than 20 minutes of actual work.
Sadly, full time working + toddler care means I'm making lots less bread than I was, but i am definitely an advocate of hand making it. Kneading is great for getting rid of problems.
Having said that, I do rather lust over the mixers (kitchenaid) they use on gbbo. I really do have better things to spend £400 on though....
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
When we lived in West Africa many years ago, it was often difficult to buy bread, although we sometimes had flour. So we asked friends to send out tiny sachets of dried yeast in their airmail letter (this could be done within the permitted weight).
On the first occasion that my wife made bread, she "killed" the yeast by adding water that was too hot. The result was that - unlike Jesus - it failed to rise and was solid as a rock. Mind you, it could have made a good building brick.
What a waste of our precious flour!
A breadmaker would have been useless, as our electricity supply was unpredictable.
[ 13. October 2014, 14:08: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I went with plain brioche. I've just had a slice. Maybe I'll just ditch making dinner and curl up with the rest, a knife and a pound of butter.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
... the lack (in winter) of a reliably warm place for proving ...
That was what put us off doing our own for a while, but you can put it in the oven with just the oven-light on, or if you've got an airing-cupboard that would probably work.
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
... you can go off and do something else while the dough is rising but you have to keep going back to it ...
I don't find the time-intervals too bad: the machine takes an hour and a half to mix and knead the dough (during which I quite often doze off ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) ); during the 10-15 minutes for it to rest I clear up the bread-machine pan/prepare baking tray/whatever; once it's rolled and shaped, I clean the work-surface and go and watch TV or read a book until I need to turn on the oven. If I'm watching TV the time-intervals can usually be measured by commercial-breaks ...
I admit it's a bit less convenient than just chucking everything in and waiting, but boy, is it worth it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The weather here being absolutely foul I've just spent a pleasant afternoon making croissants: I freeze them uncooked. I would have made some pain su chocolat but the chocolate sausages I thought were in the cupboard have vanished - perhaps something to do with number 2 son paying a flying visit over the weekend?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
My concern would be that it would bump up electricity bills having a device running for several hours. It would probably be cheaper to make the stuff yourself then just bake it.
I used to make my own loaves years ago by way of an experiment. They all turned out small, crumbly and dense which was why I gave up, but they smelt nice baking and eaten straight out of the oven with butter they weren't too bad.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I can't think the energy expenditure is that great. There's the initial 10 minutes or so of mixing/kneading, then sitting at a very low temperature, another couple of minutes kneading, more sitting about, and a final 30 minutes or so when the thing heats up and actually bakes.
I don't doubt they all come with energy efficiency scores these days.
I tend to see the saving not only in the lower cost of materials, but less wastage. We buy a supermarket loaf, often the last quarter gets chucked, after hanging round the breadbin, losing what little charm it possessed. A homemade loaf gets eaten to the crusts (which get rendered for breadcrumbs).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Since I first came by a bread machine a few years ago, I've hardly ever bought bread. For years I had one made by LG which was excellent but eventually wore out, and they stopped making bread machines years ago.
My general purpose loaf is ¾ wholemeal and ¼ white flour. All wholemeal comes out like a brick. I also use molasses instead of ordinary sugar and olive oil instead of lard.
Something I've never tried is whether there is any way of using either green yeast or a sourdough yeast instead of dried granulated yeast in a bread machine. Besides, it seems to be a bit difficult to find green yeast these days. Has anyone else tried?
I've no experience of the Lakeland gadget Doublethink linked to in the OP and would be intrigued to hear any verdict on it.
I'm intrigued. What is 'shortening'? There was an old song from long ago that referred to something called 'shortening bread' but I don't think we use the word here. Is it something we don't know, or something we call something else like other mysterious words such as zucchini and faucet?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I have had 2 breadmakers in the past. The first I wore out before starting on my current mode. The second never used. The product acceptable but not the same as a slow-made traditional method. One of my sisters in law uses one. The weight per volume is less which is about hydration ( proportion of water to flour). And the quantity would mean having to run it probably every 2nd day.
The flour like things I add to bread includes rolled oats, ground flax, buckwheat, cracked rye, barley, quinoa, amaranth, millet, sorgum, and various ground bean flours. You have experiment with amounts due to wanting flavour but preserve volume. What ever is available to you is worth trying.
More recent experiments have included foccacia types of bread which means flat, at about 1.5" to 2". Herbs, olives, sundried tomatoes, peppers, various spices. The family likes Grand Marnier cinnamon buns. Which is yet another story.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Doublethink.
Here is a book about no-knead, machine-less bread making.
I have not used this book myself, but have eaten breads made from it and they were very good.
If you wish to "try before you buy", here is one recipe.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Sounds lovely. My difficulty would be finding anywhere in the house with a constant 70 F for 18 hours.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
My concern would be that it would bump up electricity bills having a device running for several hours.
My bread machine is cheaper to run (because a lot smaller!) than my elec oven, and holds the right temp for proving and cooking with a thermostat controlling the element in a feedback loop, as they all will. Power for one med-size loaf (3 cups flour) comes in at about 9p or 1/3 kWH over a 3hr cycle. Using 45p/1.5kg bread flour I used to be able to get, the bread was ~30p a loaf - better than anything except occasional 'end of life' supermarket bread. Now bread flour price has doubled, so maybe we're more like 45p per loaf. Main thing for me is it cuts down 'emergency' trips to the shops, especially now I keep UHT for when I run out of milk. I live in the city - if I had my brother-in-law's 6 mile round trip to the corner shop, this would be an even bigger advantage.
Top tip - use (cheap) non-instant baker's yeast - in the UK it's usually the Allinson stuff in the little yellow cylindrical tin. Put a cup of water into microwave for 2 mins. When it comes out near-boiling, use 3/4 to pre-heat all your ingredients in bread machine EXCEPT yeast and sugar. Add any sugar in your recipe to remaining 1/4, make up to just over 1/2 cup with cold water (should feel warm to very warm). Add tsp yeast - so long as you haven't killed it with too much heat, it will be frothing over cup top in a couple of minutes.
Oh - and ETA that bread machines, like slow cookers, and things people fail to bond with and then sell on ebay. When paddle bearing in my bread pan finally dies completely, that's where the next one is coming from.
[ 13. October 2014, 19:32: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
First ever batch of dough left to rise (after 10 min kneading) at 20:30 ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Should be risen by the end of New Tricks
(Really enjoyed the kneading)
[ 13. October 2014, 19:39: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
Oh - and ETA that bread machines, like slow cookers, and things people fail to bond with and then sell on ebay. When paddle bearing in my bread pan finally dies completely, that's where the next one is coming from.
There's a whole category of exchange goods, as the anthropologists would say - toasted sandwich makers and cheap espresso machines and heated hostess trays. We used always to nip to the big Sunday car boot sale any time we wanted Martini glasses...
I wouldn't mind if my present machine packed in - as next time I'd like one that has the rye bread/sourdough settings.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
It has been years since I made bread regularly (through a recent project was gluten-free crackers), but the topic has come up a couple times in the last week.
I started with sourdough bread in college: the rising times are longer, and I could fit it in between classes. Typically I'd make up the dough in the evening, punch it down and kneed it in the morning, let it rise during my first class, then bake it in time for lunch. I also tried some quickbread recipes (soda bread, bannock, etc.) that didn't require rising, that I would bake in the morning and take with me for lunch when there wasn't enough time between classes. I also used the same dough for pizza.
I do it all by hand - gives me a better feel for the dough. (Also allows me to work out my agressions while kneeding.)
We tried a bread machine about 15 years ago, with the hope of waking up in the morning to the smell of fresh bread. It never worked - usually the water in the machine would cool too much overnight before it turned on so the yeast didn't rise fast enough.
Now I'm the only one in the house who eats much bread, so there isn't much demand. But maybe I'll have to try again at some point...
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Enoch, no one has answered your question about shortening. I guess most people are still asleep in northern climes, but it's Tuesday morning down here.
Shortening always used to mean some fat that was incorporated into the dough in scones, biscuits, pastry etc. I guess the meaning may now have broadened to include oils etc. my mother and her family used clarified dripping from the baking pan after a roast. Carefully saved and boiled up to clarify. Lard, fats of other kinds, margarine, butter which gives a much better flavour than margarine.
Shortening adds flavour and texture and helps baked good to last longer.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
First batch goes in the oven in 15 min ....
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Waiting anxiously to see how it turned out, Doublethink.!
Many, many moons ago, I made all my bread by hand. It was good stuff! Where I lived at that time was ideal for yeasty breads. (We raised the dough in a bowl on top of the fridge with a damp tea towel on top.)
About ten years or so ago, I bought a bread machine, and I really liked having the fresh bread whenever I wanted...it just didn't have the texture or taste of my home made. When the children had flown the nest, I didn't use it anymore, since bread isn't on my list of "foods I should be eating".
I gave the machine to a friend, and he seems to be very pleased with it!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
I use my big Kenwood with the dough hook. I'm also a big fan of Dan Lepard, who revolutionised my breadmaking by suggesting you didn't need to knead much at all.
This means I do all the usual beginning stuff up to finishing mixing all the ingredients, then run the Kenwood on low for about a minute. Rest for 10 minutes, run the Kenwood for 30 seconds. Repeat twice, while finishing the washing, vacuuming or whatever, then rise as normal.
Once risen, punch it down and knead in the machine for another minute. Leave to rise again, shape, etc, etc.
Once you get used to the extreme stickiness of the mixture, the bread is lovely - very moist. Dan commented that he had accidentally forgotten about a batch of loaves he was making when he was a young sprout and has never done lengthy kneading subsequently.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
We used share breadmaking until Dlet was born and Madame has taken it over almost entirely since. In the old days, as they say, we'd bake on the weekends, using a dough made with the Kenwood and its dough hook. For the last 10 years or so, Madame has used a bread machine to make the dough and then formed baked the loaves by hand and baked them in the oven. The advantage of the machine is that she can put the ingredients into the machine, set it to dough only, and then set the timer to have the dough ready at a time which suits her. In between, she can go and play tennis, chat in a coffee shop or even attend to her business. If the recipe calls for milk, and it will be quite a while before the start time, she will use water and put an appropriate amount of milk powder on top of the flour. At the set time, she turns the oven on, forms the loaf, lets it stand until the oven reaches its heat and then bakes.
Australian flour is hard, much harder than English, and the bread rises well. It also takes more liquid than an English loaf, so if she's using a recipe from Elizabeth David, for example, Madame has to make adjustments. There are at least 2 good brands of flour readily available here. One comes in large packets - 5 or 10 kg - the other is unbleached and comes in a 1 kg plastic container with a screw top lid. Both are available in supermarkets, where reliable wholemeal flour can also be bought. More specialised flours, such as rye, buckwheat, soy and so forth, come from health food shops.
Something to avoid is "bread improver". OK, it will help the bread rise, but we find it leaves a chemical flavour. You can get the same sort of result by adding a small amount of lemon juice and get a much better flavour. Never tried it, but the idea has just come to me that if you were making a sweet bread, a small amount of something like raspberry vinegar, or orange juice, would go well.
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Finally, allow time. A quickly risen bread has no opportunity to gain flavour from the yeast and the fermentation process. Ms David's book describes the great loss of flavour in commercially available bread which followed the adoption of the Chorleywood method, in which the dough was gently shaken to promote rising in a quarter the time for a traditionally made bread. Flavour and texture both vanish.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
Chorleywood method, in which the dough was gently shaken to promote rising in a quarter the time for a traditionally made bread. Flavour and texture both vanish.
The gluten content is also affected. Coeliac granddaughter can eat slow rise bread and sour dough where both have over 20 hours rising. Quickrise bread affects her.
If I make it now, I mix in machine and set aside in fridge. A couple of days later, I allow it to rise a couple of hours at room temperature, shape and bake. I have used sourdough starter and also used bread with yeast in this way.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
How can the gluten content be affected? Where does the excess gluten go in the slow process? Or where does it come from in the Chorleywood?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Just took out my latest experiment - I added dried wakame (a Japanese sea-weed)
I added it to the water in the Bread Machine - next time will leave it to re-hydrate completely as the loaf turned out like a Post Modern sculpture from an avant-garde gallery!
The best thing about home-made bread is that it is always edible. Unless you forgot the yeast which has been known in this household. You just learn what (or what not) to do next time.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
I don't know anything about the gluten issue, but the Chorleywood method is also thought* to be responsible for a big increase in numbers of people suffering with IBS and acid reflux in recent years (and a number of other things that escape me at the moment because they don't have a personal impact).
*Disputed by the industry, but the repeated experience of someone close to me supports the idea.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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