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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Retirement - who cares?
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
It appears that many young people don't expect to retire because they see limited prospect of saving enough, or having a job with benefits. They discuss this as something new (though I recall the same situation and feeling the same in the recessions of the 1970s and 80s).
It appears that many older adults find the prospect of retiring daunting because they don't know what to do with themselves, or they fear running out of money. The age of fully-funded pensions ran out in the 1980s here, so most retirees are on their own with registered tax-deferred savings accounts and purchased annuities.
Myself, I am surprised now that I seriously question ever retiring. Dreamt of having all the time to myself before, but now....? I see friends who have retired all-of-a-sudden seeming to have aged. They all go on a trip somewhere, return, and seem to have limited activities and constricted lives.
Is retirement worthy of dreaming about? Is it something not worthwhile to focus on? Is it a sign of having led a work life of unpleasantness to wait for the golden years? Is retirement passé? Is it a why bother and who cares? Does it prematurely age people?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
It depends on what your work is!
Some jobs are too exhausting to continue bast the mid 60s. I was a primary school teacher from 1978 onwards. I retired at 55 - there is no way I could keep it up. The vigilance needed in our job is akin to that of an air traffic controller - and we don't get a break every twenty minutes!
I'm now very busy and happy puppy walking. It's challenging, fun and social.
I teach one afternoon a week - I'm still good at it but would not dream of going back full time.
I think retirees need to find something engaging, challenging and fun to do - then there is no sudden aging or constricted lives.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
My father retired at the age of 53, and thirteen years later he hasn't regretted a single minute of it. I doubt I will be lucky enough to retire that early, but I'm hoping that 60 remains a realistic age at which to start claiming my workplace pension.
I think the problem a lot of newly-retired people have is that they don't know what to do with their time, because they devoted so much of it to work that they never really cultivated any hobbies. Personally I plan to spend my retirement playing lots of golf, watching (or playing!) lots of football and cricket, and volunteering more at church and my local steam railway. Maybe I'll join a bowls team. And if I have enough money, I'll copy my parents by going on a lot of holidays!
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
and volunteering more at church and my local steam railway.
SVR? I volunteered there from 10-18. Seriously thinking about getting involved at my current nearest (Chinnor) without waiting to retire!
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
ISTM that those of us retiring recently, or about now, are the lucky ones. I was able to retire from one career (local government) at 44, and from my second career (in the NHS) three years ago at 62 - I could have packed it in at 60, but kept on until ill-health and creeping privatisation told me it was time to go!
Upon retirement No. 2, I almost immediately began to give much more time and effort to church, and by late 2015 was almost 'working full-time', and certainly on seven days per week.....all of which had to come to an abrupt halt when I was diagnosed with a brain tumour. Now, however, much recovered, I look forward to taking up the reins again - in a smaller way - this Spring.
I count myself fortunate - former (and younger) colleagues in the NHS will have to work well into their late 60s... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
I retired four years ago at 60 and have never regretted it. I was a lay employee of a church, so no matter how long I endured it I would never get a pension.
I travel (something I couldn't do much of when I didn't get paid vacation time), volunteer, and have fun. I wish I'd been able to do it years earlier -- but am very grateful that I am able to now.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Some jobs are too exhausting to continue bast the mid 60s. I was a primary school teacher from 1978 onwards. I retired at 55 - there is no way I could keep it up.
It was the same for my wife (not helped by having arthritis). She had been a Deputy Head in a very stressful environment, had to take time off at around 48 years of age because of total exhaustion. She then worked for several years part-time, then more years part-time as a primary school librarian. She is now properly retired - but busy volunteering.
I'm slightly younger (63 next month) ... and about to move to a new full-time Pastorate. I'll hope to give them at least 5 years.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
My husband had looked to retire in 4 years, but in the current situation it is very possible that Social Security and Medicare will be gutted. Without age-linked healthcare retirement will be impossible.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
Retired at 65 never sorry. I found it easier to live on a lot less when not working. I can be as busy as I want. In fact the danger was not to take on to much. I traveled a lot when working so for me not traveling was a relief. I enjoy taking all kinds of free or inexpensive classes instead of travel.
I became ill at 77 but have re-booted and started going out again. For me the secret is to do one thing new each year, develop a new interest, learn a new skill, make some new friends, explore a new challenge of some kind, even if you are homebound. I do not believe that my Social Security and retirement is going away and my home is paid for so I feel secure. I am concerned about health care.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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BabyWombat
Shipmate
# 18552
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Posted
My spouse retired five years ago, earlier than expected, due to a reduction in force at the local college. After a bit of floundering he has now read his way through major authors he always wished to have time to read: Henry James, Edith Wharton, Thomas Mann, John Galsworthy, John O’Hara, Flaubert, Maupassant, James Kane. And has continued his passion for reviewing perfumes and scents on an international data base. The list of books to read and scents to try grows daily. No boredom there!
I had been bi-vocational for many years, and “retired” from the self-supporting clergy job when he left the college, to “have more time to do things together.” Hated it. Felt useless. Dug deeper into the paying day job in healthcare, had a new boss come in and I learned to hate that even more, so retired when benefits kicked in at age 65. It has taken me two years to find my way, helped very much by a priest colleague (also retired and working part time) bringing me on staff part time in her parish. It gives me focus and a sense of usefulness, with a flexible schedule that allows for trips and days off.
Hubby and I now delight in going to vacation spots mid week when shops and restaurants are less crowded, generating lists of stately homes we want to see, and other fun things we’d longed to have the freedom to do. And I get to celebrate and preach and do pastoral care on a limited basis. The church position will end early next year (odd diocesan time limits on interim clergy placements). I do not look forward to that day! We live on a combination of Social Security and savings, tucking away the clergy job pay I get against whatever horrors our new US President can bring us. But we are now both content.
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Let us, with a gladsome mind…..
Posts: 102 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2016
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wabale
Shipmate
# 18715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
... Myself, I am surprised now that I seriously question ever retiring. Dreamt of having all the time to myself before, but now....? I see friends who have retired all-of-a-sudden seeming to have aged. They all go on a trip somewhere, return, and seem to have limited activities and constricted lives.
Is retirement worthy of dreaming about? Is it something not worthwhile to focus on? Is it a sign of having led a work life of unpleasantness to wait for the golden years? Is retirement passé? Is it a why bother and who cares? Does it prematurely age people?
I took early early retirement - no, that's not a typing error: I was getting so fed up with teaching, I did the calculation to see how much money I would lose if I took early retirement a year early. So I retired at 59, and have never regretted it, although I did, once or twice, really miss the TGIF feeling!
It's certainly 'worth dreaming about', and I have still got one of the mind-map/spidergraphs I made (sitting in the school 'sin-bin' I think) of all the exciting things I was going to do when I retired. Looking at it now, the only one I've not actually done is to continue with my efforts at learning calligraphy - generally too busy to sit down that long. Interestingly I never made much use of the splendid reclining garden chair which was my leaving present from my colleagues, and on reflection it's probably about the last thing you need for retirement, though perhaps I will appreciate it when I take Retirement in about ten years' time. (Actually, if I add about 20 years to my expectations for retirement it all begins to make sense.)
As it turned out, my wife and I between us had more money than I anticipated, and we returned from holidays abroad refreshed rather than prematurely old! I actually had a chat about retirement with a printer friend who had just been forcibly retired because his printing business was about to collapse. He warned me of the dangers of drink, to which apparently a couple of retired people he knew had succumbed. He didn't, however, warn me to beware of being asked to be Church Warden though! ... I suppose it did keep me out of mischief for a year, and perhaps for the same reason I did some tutoring for a few years. But I find the more flexible job I do as a Lay Reader more my style and I will probably protest when they decide to retire me from that.
If I hadn't, alongside with many others of my generation, been so lucky pensionwise, I could have happily developed the tutoring into a business and carried on for many years, though looking now at my original retirement spidergraph, tutoring occupies a tiny corner!
Posts: 74 | From: Essex, United Kingdom | Registered: Jan 2017
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Well i know folk talk about us all carrying on working until our seventies, but can you really imagine late sixty or early seventy year old child care workers? I'm in my late 50s and only working part-time, my joints...well my whole body really... can't take full time anymore.
And it's not just childcare. Teaching has already been mentioned. And there's plenty more to be added to that list.
Nope.
We'll have to find a way to make retirement work....and i for one am looking forward to it.
[ 24. January 2017, 18:40: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
Well i know folk talk about us all carrying on working until our seventies, but can you really imagine late sixty or early seventy year old child care workers?
Childcare by Grandma is a reality for quite a lot of families.
My local Ace Hardware seems to be staffed entirely by men who have retired from other careers (which is handy, as they actually know things.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I think I was retired (in the passive voice) unexpectedly at 56, a year ago. Since then I've been involved in court battles, academic study and writing a book (experimenting with a second, now). I can't really afford to be jobless, and have no access to my retirement funds for a good while yet (and they'll be meagre then), so I hope I stumble into something soon. But it's been an interesting and unexpected change of life, and, as we still have children at home and I'm house-husbanding too, I wonder where the hell I ever found time to be employed as a priest.
The loss of the prestige that went with the job has been an important transition, as I adjusted to being me, rather than some sort of egotistical vision of me. That may have been a peculiarity of a priest's life, but I suspect many of us are our job. I've also had to wrestle with the temptation to become bitter, a temptation to which, so far, I don't think I've succumbed. There were though some very very Black Dog™ moments, and those who stood my me in prayer and other support roles (especially kuruman, and some very close friends, on and off the Ship, too) will never be thanked enough for sustaining me.
So who am I without a job? I don't have the answer yet, but most of the time am enjoying living in the question.
Until the money runs out ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
...
I think the problem a lot of newly-retired people have is that they don't know what to do with their time, because they devoted so much of it to work that they never really cultivated any hobbies. ...
Indeed. The retirement experts I have listened to all preach what one of them referred to with: "Don't retire from work. Retire to something better."
Most cannot golf or travel enough to keep them as occupied as their work did, so they have to plan for retirement, and not just financially. I am retiring at the end of April this year, and can't wait - work has been getting in the way of all the things I want to do.
Fortunately, my wife and I have had long steady careers and we don't have the financial concerns that many soon-to-be-retired people do. The younger generations, from what I have seen, will have to do their financial planning in earnest from an early age. Many now do not plan to have one employer for 30 or 35 years, and, even if they did, pension plans are not as lucrative for those starting out now.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
...
I think the problem a lot of newly-retired people have is that they don't know what to do with their time, because they devoted so much of it to work that they never really cultivated any hobbies. ...
Indeed. The retirement experts I have listened to all preach what one of them referred to with: "Don't retire from work. Retire to something better."
Thanks for Marvin for posting that and Sharkshooter for quoting. It explains why I can't get myself to really consider retiring, though can afford to. I don't have other work as enjoyable as what I do, and my various hobbies and pasttimes don't quite do it. I look forward to Mondays.
[ 24. January 2017, 20:13: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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neandergirl
Opposing the thumb
# 8916
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Posted
My Dad retired at 70, spent 5 months volunteering on a parks trails project and, once all that was done, promptly returned to work. He generally works 3-4 days a week, but several times a year travels to Africa, Caribbean, and sometimes South America for his projects. He's 81 and hopes to "die with his boots on".
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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee
Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Hilda of Whitby
Shipmate
# 7341
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Posted
I retired 2 years ago; DH about a year and a half ago. We have zero regrets. Our jobs/commutes were *very* stressful, and after retiring we relocated in late 2015 and love where we are living--DH grew up here. I volunteer at the library of the city history museum (I was a professional librarian), and am thinking of becoming a literacy tutor. I am getting involved with a church community, have lots of time to exercise, ride my bike, read, and go on outings with DH. He finally has the time to really work on playing the guitar, he builds models, exercises, gardens, and reads. We go to the movies in the middle of the day. We get together regularly with friends. It's very nice.
We lived like graduate students, albeit with professional jobs, and saved money like crazy. Where we are living now has a much, MUCH lower cost of living than Washington DC, where we had been living.
Time does not hang heavily on our hands. In fact, I wonder sometimes how we got anything done when we both were working. It's so much easier to schedule appointments, shop for groceries, and do other "administrative" tasks now that we don't have to shoehorn them into the weekend, or take time off from work.
I think retirement is a very individual thing. We're happy with our quiet and low-key lives and do not miss our workplaces. We both liked our jobs and excelled at them, but they weren't the major source of our identities or our self-esteem.
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"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."
Posts: 412 | From: Nickel City | Registered: Jun 2004
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
My wife and I retired in our mid-50s. We sold our house and moved to a smaller one in a much less affluent part of town providing enough cash to keep us going until pensions started.
We did some volunteering and some part time work. Lived on about 1/4 of what we'd had before, met new people and just enjoyed being together.
The original impetus to retire had come a couple of years before when friends had announced they were going to retire in the following year and told us all their exciting plans. Four months later the husband died unexpectedly. We decided there was more to life than working and the rest followed.
It's been great but last year, after nine years away, I had an email asking if I could come back to my old job just for a couple of weeks to teach a particular course as no one else was available. I can't deny it felt wonderful - they couldn't do without me after all! I enjoyed being back but two weeks a year is quite enough.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
Well i know folk talk about us all carrying on working until our seventies, but can you really imagine late sixty or early seventy year old child care workers?
Childcare by Grandma is a reality for quite a lot of families.
My local Ace Hardware seems to be staffed entirely by men who have retired from other careers (which is handy, as they actually know things.)
Yep, my mom retired and immediately went into two day a week (at least) childcare mode. My grandmother (her mother-in-law) was very close with us because she took on that position gladly, and my mom wanted to model her relationship with her grand kids after that.
It may be different when I get closer to retirement, but I feel like I need to do something. The guy who does my taxes at the local H&R Block is a retired accountant who does taxes four months out of the year and is a host at his golf course all summer. I kind of envy that set-up. If only tax season and ski season didn't overlap, I'd be very happy doing people's taxes (yes, you heard that right) and being a mountain host.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
I think one of the realities of retirement is that people grow old and need to retire. Health and strength do not last forever. We may like it or not like it; time nevertheless passes. The human body is not designed to last indefinitely and our capabilities do change.
Young people may think they will never retire, but a few decades later, they will see the need for it and maybe look forward to it. The wise ones will make their plans accordingly.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
The wise ones will make their plans accordingly.
You know, once they manage to find a job and start putting a dent into those pesky student loans.
I'm lucky to have some decent savings after almost 10 years in my profession, but it's going to be tough for a lot of folks my age and younger, who started looking for jobs at the beginning of the recession with a pretty significant debt load.
Every little bit helps, as they say, and some people do make smarter choices, but wisdom will only get you so far.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
In just a few days now (all too few) I shall turn 70, and Madame will in a few months. Both of us are still working. With some luck, we'll be retired this time next year. All I have to do is tell my clerk that I shan't be available after a particular date, then sell my room. Madame's position is much more complex, but with lots of expert advice we have worked out a way that lets her sell the business. Basically, we gave the works manager a 10% share quite a few years ago, and the balance is split between Madame, Dlet and me with Madame having by far the largest share. Selling has lots of taxation issues and we have no wish to be handing money unnecessarily to the taxation commissioner. Then, a lot of the value of the business is Madame's expertise and her name. Then there are the employees, many of whom have been there for a long time. Putting all the arrangements into place will probably take most of the year and we can pull up stumps.
What to do? First of all will be to try to draw a line between our present and the new life. As did most of my colleagues, I started work in my late teens as an articled clerk, so that's now almost 51 years ago. Madame's had not quite as long, but we both want to say that we've changed status. Madame will need to continue some consulting availability. I'll probably look for some sort of volunteer work with a local charity. Dog probably won't be with us for more than 2 or 3 months, which will free us up to do some more travel. I don't think I'll take up either golf or bowls!
Our present plans don't include selling and downsizing. D Towers will in one sense be too big, but it does give tax-free capital appreciation. We like the house and its location but would move if the right house came along. Look forward to grandchildren and hope that we're not too old to enjoy them when they do arrive.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
and volunteering more at church and my local steam railway.
SVR? I volunteered there from 10-18. Seriously thinking about getting involved at my current nearest (Chinnor) without waiting to retire!
Yes, SVR. I'd like to start now, but with working all week and sport/church/family time at weekends I simply don't have the time!
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
As a general point, there seems to me to be a huge difference between those who carry on working because that's what they want to do, and those who have no choice because they need the money to keep body and soul together.
I have to say that I look with envy at some folk in my church who are now in the 75+ age bracket and have gold-plated pensions, knowing that I will never have the financial freedom to swan around the world as they do. Equally I think of my son in a constantly-uncertain job and whose retirement prospects are far less attractive than mine.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I come at this from the angle of a working person some decades off from any potential retirement.
The big issue is, and looks set to be, that of housing. I've been saving for a deposit on my first home for the last 10 years, but the out-of-control inflation of house prices means that even if prices froze, it would still take me a further 25 years before I could muster a deposit.
That's a situation my parents never faced. They had a mortgage by the time they were in their early 20s and now that they have retired they own outright and so their pensions (my father has a defined benefit income) allow for quite a comfortable lifestyle. Well, comfortable enough that they are currently on a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic, heading for Barbados.
So at the moment, while one needs to save to a defined contribution pension scheme, the need to save for retirement needs to be balanced with trying to save for a deposit. The latter being due to a hope that there may be a correction to the housing market and that the inflation bubble may pop.
Some I know don't put anything towards a pension, instead piling all their savings into a potential deposit. Some have given up the idea of ever owning and then put extra into their pension in the hope it will cover the costs of renting post-retirement.
For me, the realistic prospect is that I will be able to have a deposit, but that my parents will never live to see it. That is, my share of the inheritance may be enough to buy my own home, but that may not happen until I'm in my 50s or 60s.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Investments are probably another thread. But certainly impact. I worry that people don't invest, they hoard money. Which means pure savings and no enough interest or profit.
I don't have a pension like several others. I started a stock account in the >15% interest rate 1980s and have self directed investments, mostly tracking the stock market index. My take is that most folks worry about losses in investments that they invest in ways that protect capital and thus don't have possibility of larger gains. Myself, I divide savings in two. One part is reserve and protected. The other is, in the words of my banker, hyper-aggressive. If the investment fund tracks the stock market, it will always come back. The dips are a good time to buy. The last major loss was the subprime scandal. The market comes back and more every time. As it did the previous two times when my paper losses exeeded 30%. Just don't check the market too much and don't sell when it dips. You haven't really lost if you don't sell. YMMV. It does look a bit like gambling, though takes longer.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I've always resisted the urge to "play the market". Partly this is because I'm naturally cautious. But it's also because I know that my stocks and shares relate to real companies and I could end up contributing to people losing their jobs if we all sell, sell, sell.
Having said that I am of course a hypocrite because much of my pension fund is invested in the Market. It's just that I'm trusting others to do my deals without me knowing rather than actively doing so myself! Money doesn't come from nowhere.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
BT: you are correct re impact on people. It is one of those things where you have to do a little bit of research to ensure you aren't investing in something bad. I personally avoid several industries.
I am naturally a risk taker with money. My father was a WW2 refugee and my grandfather in WW1. Lost everything; such family history speaks to me of the truth of the biblical 3rd and 4th generation. (I know the bible suggests it is sins the play forward, but I think it's pretty much everything from past generations that may haunt the future.)
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Baptist Trainfan
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Posted
That's interesting. My father remembered growing up in the German hyperinflation of 1921 when money had to be disposed of within minutes if it was to be of any use. He and my mother came to England at the end of 1938 and presumably had to leave any money behind (although he did have a job to come to).
He was always generous with his money to the extent that (my mother believed) people took advantage of him. Certainly when he died in 1974 he was thousands of pounds in debt and the insurance policies which he'd taken out to cover my mother's old age just about covered them, which meant she had to find paid employment having not worked for years.
My wife, I don't think it's unfair to say, had parents who used money as a means of control. As a student living at home they made her use her grant to pay them rent when they were in fact supposed to make a parental contribution. This has always rankled. As a result she is far more generous than I am - although by no means irresponsibly so.
I suspect that there's a temperament issue at work her: two people can be brought up in similar circumstances yet use those circumstances to trigger diametrically opposite behaviour.
[ 25. January 2017, 15:34: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I don't have a pension like several others. I started a stock account in the >15% interest rate 1980s and have self directed investments, mostly tracking the stock market index.
I have done something similar over the years, though do wonder to what extent such strategy will viable in the future, given generally lower growth and an aging world population.
It's going to be a much bigger problem systemically as it hits pension funds in general. Though the effects of hot money from China is likely to keep it afloat for long enough that the boomers escape the consequences of their votes.
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
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I am not seeing signs of lower growth. I am seeing a shift and usual ups and downs. Undulation. Unless we have a complete societal collapse (possible any time), I don't see the economies in any of our countries diving completely. I recall the fears of nuclear war in the bad days of Reagan, and it didn't dive for long. The subprime thing didn't either. As far as I can tell the hijacking of aircraft and multiple mid-east wars in the 1960s and 70s involving Israel didn't make any difference either. We are perpetually on the 'eve of destruction' and the 'dawning of the age of aquarius' as far as I can tell. If they blow it all up, I will go down with the money. And who cares if you've got a bug-out plan and defence against the zombies of the day.
I think that the current Millennial panic of no jobs, permanent under employment and disintegrating economy etc will quietly resolve and the whining baby boomers lose the ability to helicopter and lawn mow for their infantilized children. Things were terrible in the 1980s after I got my doctorate. So we had babies, I started baking bread and re-read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, and Breakfast of Champions.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Marvin the Martian
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I agree. Things have been really bad before, and they'll be really bad again, but in general the trajectory is upwards.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
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Investments are probably another thread. But certainly impact. I worry that people don't invest, they hoard money. Which means pure savings and no enough interest or profit.
I don't have a pension like several others. I started a stock account in the >15% interest rate 1980s and have self directed investments, mostly tracking the stock market index. My take is that most folks worry about losses in investments that they invest in ways that protect capital and thus don't have possibility of larger gains. Myself, I divide savings in two. One part is reserve and protected. The other is, in the words of my banker, hyper-aggressive. If the investment fund tracks the stock market, it will always come back. The dips are a good time to buy. The last major loss was the subprime scandal. The market comes back and more every time. As it did the previous two times when my paper losses exeeded 30%. Just don't check the market too much and don't sell when it dips. You haven't really lost if you don't sell. YMMV. It does look a bit like gambling, though takes longer.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I recall the fears of nuclear war in the bad days of Reagan, and it didn't dive for long. The subprime thing didn't either.
The "subprime thing" resulted in a recession so deep that some people have not recovered economically and never will. Some people who were within 10 or so years of retirement lost their good jobs, their homes, and everything they had saved for retirement. It doesn't matter to them that the Dow hit 20,000 today -- the $857/month they're getting from Social Security would cover a shitty studio apartment in my town, but nothing else.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
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So they gambled too big? Put their money in just the one thing? There is aggressive investing and there is foolishness. It is YMMV.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Gee D
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We each knew from the time we started work that there would be no nice superannuation fund to send a cheque each month, and so started planning for retirement then. Not just putting away $x each month into a retirement bank account, but making that money do some work itself and grow. By the time we were married, we'd each worked out how to do that with minimal risk, a balance of growth and security. Largely we followed that. Some amendments on the way through to adjust for changes in government policy expressed in taxation procedures. Then there will be some very welcome money from the sale of Madame Pty Limited.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Latchkey Kid
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When I moved into an IT career in my mid-30s I thought I would have a job for life - or at least until a retirement age of 65. But work in path I followed dried up and I had only sporadic work after my mid-50s. But LKKspouse and I had built up sufficient super/pension to live comfortably.
Volunteering helped get me out of depression, and my IT problem solving ability always seems in demand. My major volunteering is chaplaincy at my local hospital, and my chaplaincy academy calls on me for relief teaching and IT support. But at leastI can say how much I can provide. I never am bored or have too little to do. I wished I could have emulated some people who retired at 45.
The superannuation question of "how long do you want it to last?" (i.e. when do you think you will die?) used to be unnerving. Life expectancy by the statistics would be into my 80s, but I almost died from a heart attack last year and my feeling, based on my feelings, is that it will be a lot less than that. But for the last 10 years we seem to have been better off than when we were working.
My sons will find it difficult to get into the housing market. Perhaps that, together with the uncertain future, is why their generation is spending their money on overseas travel and going to festivals and eating out. Maybe they will have the money for a house from their inheritance after we die.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Humble Servant
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Having been made redundant from the best pension scheme in the UK, I've had to start putting some money away. I'd suggest that ethical investment should be high on our list of priorities when choosing what to do with our assets. There are no ethical pension funds I could find, but there is the self-select option if you want to keep it ethical.
So each month I put a lump sum into the plan. The plan manager claims back the tax I've paid on it. They then make the funds available to invest in any assets that qualify for tax relief. I am gradually building up a portfolio of ethical trusts (oeics mainly). There are several of these on the market if you do a little research, with a choice of global or UK investment, cautious or aggressive. I know some of the criteria can be a little loose, but none of these funds make profit from the sale of legal drugs or armaments. That's got to be better than tracking the stock markets generally.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
oeics ?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
So they gambled too big? Put their money in just the one thing? There is aggressive investing and there is foolishness. It is YMMV.
No, they had their money in diversified investment funds. When the entire market plunges through the floor and you don't have time before retirement to wait for the market to rebound -- and you also lose your job and your house -- it's neither aggressive investing or foolishness. It's people in banking getting away with what ought to be crimes. I thank God I wasn't born 10 years earlier.
quote:
Originally posted by Humble Servant:
I'd suggest that ethical investment should be high on our list of priorities when choosing what to do with our assets. There are no ethical pension funds I could find, but there is the self-select option if you want to keep it ethical.
...
I know some of the criteria can be a little loose, but none of these funds make profit from the sale of legal drugs or armaments. That's got to be better than tracking the stock markets generally.
If investing ethically meant you wouldn't ever have enough to retire, would you still do it?
I used to tithe to my church, and some years ago I reduced my pledge considerably and started saving for retirement instead. The rector at my parish was a bit taken aback, but I pointed out that while he is vested in a guaranteed benefit pension plan with the church, I don't have a pension plan and the church isn't going to support me in my old age.
quote:
From the OP:
Is retirement worthy of dreaming about?
As worthy of dreaming about as any other plan for the future, I would say. I can't imagine not knowing what to do with my time in retirement. My dad retired early from his medical career because he had Parkinson's disease. I thought he might have a hard time figuring out what to do with his time, seeing as he went from working full-time as a radiologist to not working at all, but he had no trouble finding things he wanted to do. He promptly got himself a library card and joined the Kiwanis club, he travelled with my mother while that was still possible, and he had projects going at home almost to the end of his life.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Jane R
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# 331
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Posted
no_prophet: quote:
So they gambled too big? Put their money in just the one thing? There is aggressive investing and there is foolishness. It is YMMV.
If you want to invest you have to have some money left over after paying your living expenses. This may come as a shock to you, but most people are not in this position.
If you want to have a retirement fund large enough to live on, you need to have a lot of money left over after paying your living expenses. Ten or twenty pounds a month won't cover your nursing home fees, and many investment funds don't accept small investors.
And 'aggressive investing' is just another way of saying 'gambling'. Fine if you win... not so good if you are losing at a time when you need to cash in your investments.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
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I dunno re the subprime thing. I see that it took 4 years for the stock market to rebound in the USA. That's fairly typical. The drop was about 40%. I lost 36% myself in the Canadian market which took slightly longer to return.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Humble Servant:
I'd suggest that ethical investment should be high on our list of priorities when choosing what to do with our assets. There are no ethical pension funds I could find, but there is the self-select option if you want to keep it ethical.
...
I know some of the criteria can be a little loose, but none of these funds make profit from the sale of legal drugs or armaments. That's got to be better than tracking the stock markets generally.
If investing ethically meant you wouldn't ever have enough to retire, would you still do it?
Happily, this question is entirely hypothetical.
Socially responsible investments have outperformed the FTSE 100 over the past five years.
(October 2015).
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I am not seeing signs of lower growth. I am seeing a shift and usual ups and downs.
Well generally low economic growth across the whole of the Western World is pretty much a fact, long term the stock market is going to be limited by growth to an extent. At the moment it's going up much faster because of the dearth of investment opportunities generally, capital flight from China and in the case of the UK exchange rates.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
If you want to invest you have to have some money left over after paying your living expenses. This may come as a shock to you, but most people are not in this position.
If you want to have a retirement fund large enough to live on, you need to have a lot of money left over after paying your living expenses.
Depends what you mean by "living expenses."
I'd rather not drink, eat out, buy lots of stuff and save my money. YMMV. Many people live on subsistence wages, some - by their habits - use their money unwisely and so end up living that way.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
If you want to invest you have to have some money left over after paying your living expenses. This may come as a shock to you, but most people are not in this position.
If you want to have a retirement fund large enough to live on, you need to have a lot of money left over after paying your living expenses.
Depends what you mean by "living expenses."
I generally use the cost of living as what is required to keep you clothed, fed and capable of creating an income.
So on my personal accounts, my living expenses are: rent, food & drink (excluding restaurants & pubs), commuting to & from work, utility bills, council tax and toiletries.
Anything else, like buying books, nights out at the pub, donations/sponsorship, travel to see family, etc. would come under the heading of "discretionary expenses".
And yes, I am an accountant who does a p&l, balance sheet and cash flow statement on my personal affairs every month. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Humble Servant:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
oeics ?
A variation on the theme of a Unit Trust
Thanks, a new acronym for me.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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