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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Nov. 4th (this Sat.) Antifa Protest
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{Hopefully this will be nothing. But figured Americans should know, just in case.}
There's a big-deal Antifa protest scheduled for this Saturday. (Refuse Fascism) The main info is about 1/2 way down that page.
That info (basically, a two-page manifesto) has been on flyers here in SF for a while. If you check around online, you'll see that some (right-wing) folks are freaking out, and saying it's a planned civil war. It's supposed to take place across the country, night after night.
Snopes debunked the civil war part. If I read it right, there's also some doubt that *this* protest is planned by actual Antifa groups. But evidently some real Antifa folks are planning protests for Nov. 4th. (BTW, that's also Unity Day in Russia, which is controversial there.)
Anyway, opinions and coverage seem chaotic. I hope there's nothing to any of it, and nothing at all happens.
OTOH, that flyer is a full-fledged manifesto for taking back the country. And, in that mood and mode, things could easily get violent.
I went back and forth about posting this. Didn't want to seem alarmist, and didn't want to get flack from Shipmates if they thought that.
However, SF is taking it seriously enough to deny a protest permit, and the group is fighting back in court. So I figured I should put the info here and let people decide for themselves--rather than worrying that I should've said something.
Personally, I'm making a point of staying home all day Saturday.
{Provided for your consideration. The sign post up head reads "The Twilight Zone".}
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
It's a protest aimed at getting rid of the current administration. It might be noisy; it might get violent if they're attacked by Nazis; it won't achieve its stated goal (that will be done at the polls or in congress). What are you expecting to happen?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
As I said, I hope nothing will happen at all.
But, in most American protests about anything, someone on some side loses it and does something stupid, and things fall apart from there. (Law enforcement, protestors, bystanders, and self-proclaimed anarchists who disguise themselves and delight in ruining other people's peaceful protests.) Charlottesville, the later attempts to protest in the East Bay here...Occupy Oakland.
If organizers really mean what they say, then they have a long agenda/manifesto (more than removing T), and they want it going on all over the country, every night, until they get what they want.
To borrow from the "King Of The Hill" cartoon, "this arrangement would afford many opportunities for difficulty".
I will be blissfully happy if this turns out to be a prank. A little less blissful if it's for real, but SF still won't give them a permit.
As I said, I went back and forth about posting this at all. But if it turned out to be real, and a Shipmate got caught in it (all unknowing) and got hurt, I'd feel guilty.
So everyone can make up their own minds. I posted many caveats, and gave links.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
glhf?
Seriously, it's good to be careful. Stay safe over there.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
simontoad--
"glhf"?
And thanks. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Good Luck Have Fun???
Enjoy the time at home!
[ 03. November 2017, 07:12: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I can't see anything on the linked page that would appear to be anything other than normal democracy in action. Democratic governments have their legitimacy from the support of the people, and the people have the right to express whether or not they agree with what their government is doing in their name (naturally, that usually comes down to protesting against the government because generally feelings in support of government don't run as high as feelings against). Democracy is severely degraded if people are denied their chance to protest against government actions and policies they disagree with.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
My understanding from GK's post was that it was the threat of violence that concerned the SF officials.
No doubt Antifa may attract people from the other side, who will not be calm and collected; and Antifa may have its own violent elements.
I realise the threat of violence is always there for a protest. But I'm guessing, for the safety of those there, the authorities need to draw the line somewhere. If it went ahead and people were injured or killed, the city/state could be blamed. Some of your fellow residents Americans do seem quick to go to legal means if anything happens to them from what I read.
[ 03. November 2017, 07:27: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I don't know the details of this, but one interesting feature of releases by facebook about Russian-funded ads is that they were encouraging both sides in various recent civil conflicts and protests.
The aim seems to be to undermine the normal civil systems and to get people to go for each others throats.
I've also heard very recently, and had heard before, that Occupy was at least offered black money which may or may not have originated in Russia.
In that context, maybe it doesn't really matter if Nov 4 turns out to be nothing. Maybe the Russians are whipping up the conspiracy theorists and maybe they're also poking antifa groups at the same time to get them to face off, divert attention and cause a riot.
The worry is that the wild claims could even be self-fulfilling prophesy. It might turn out that there wasn't going to be anything significant happening on Nov 4.. until it was widely discussed that something was going to happen on Nov 4 which may or may not have been a story whipped up originally in Russia.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Well, someone bothered to put it on a site for RSVPing for activities of all sorts. It's scheduled at Union Square, which is right downtown. Tourists, expensive shopping, lots of public transportation. Marching distance from City Hall, if so inclined. Union Square park is small, and any protest there is apt to spill out.
Here's Newsweek's take on the whole thing.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
yeah. Good luck have fun. There should be a wikki on the site somewhere for acronyms. I get maybe half of those used here...
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There's a huge right-wing rumor going on that Saturday is going to be the start of a civil war. It seems however to be based solely on their chatter. I have heard of nothing, and I am reasonably well hooked up into Lyin' Donald protests. On Saturday I am going to the memorial service for a deceased friend. No protesting from me. Here's a story in the Guardian about it.
[ 03. November 2017, 13:03: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
There are "It's okay to be white" posters being seen in Canada. Apparently there's an online campaign by some website called 4chan. I wonder if the publicity for these righty-fascist groups might serve in their favour.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
np--
4chan is supposed to be a center for all sorts of really bad and really illegal stuff. Check Wikipedia.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Yes, it's notoriously a site for neo-Nazis, porn and other sketchy players. here is an article from Slate that tries to unravel the origin of the story. Sadly, even if nothing happens tomorrow but a little rain, none of these people will learn from their folly. They'll believe next time, and the time after that.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
4chan is basically a giant unmoderated set of discussion forums, though that is about as instructive as saying that tumblr is a microblogging site.
In short, it is indeed where the alt-right, misogynists, racist factions of every flavour get to hang out. Oh, and Anonymous - don't forget them. Some of the weirder left-wing tendencies too. Basically it is home for the beta movement, though isn't limited to them. Anyone, really, who won't fit your preferred narrative, whatever that may be.
If you don't know what that means, here is some reading for you -
The New Man of 4chan
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
As I type this it is now past 6 pm here in the mid-Atlantic. It is raining hard. No beheadings seen, nor any signs of civil war. If there are combatants out there they're getting pretty wet.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Whoever planned this didn't do a good job of getting the word out. I saw one flyer stapled to a power pole, and nothing on Facebook or Twitter. The LA Times reports there were 400 peaceful protestors at Pershing Square and a handful of counter-protestors. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Whoever planned this didn't do a good job of getting the word out. I saw one flyer stapled to a power pole, and nothing on Facebook or Twitter.
There were a couple of minor groups (including the very tiny 'Revolutionary Communist Party') who had planned a protest for November the 4th that was announced earlier in the year.
This was then picked up by a number of people on the alt-right including Alex Jones. This is where the rumour metastasized into a nascent 'civil war'.
That was pretty much it.
[ http://www.newsweek.com/antifa-waging-civil-war-november-4-right-wing-conspiracy-theory-681219 ]
[ 05. November 2017, 13:27: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I did not see anything on the national news or the local paper. Did I miss something?
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I am reliably informed that over on the alt-right area of Twitter they're claiming that their overwhelming forces frightened all the antifa away.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Sure it wasn't the rain? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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