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Source: (consider it) Thread: Education: Wide or deep?
SecondRateMind
Shipmate
# 18898

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My thread of this name (in Purgatory) was closed by Eutychus. He thought it might be a homework question. It wasn't; just a matter I thought would be of general interest to anyone contemplating, embarked on, or finished of, some course of education or other.

Please reopen my thread, and please, moderators, talk to me before you close down my threads in future. I may be able to disabuse you of your suspicious suppositions.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[ 28. January 2018, 17:42: Message edited by: SecondRateMind ]

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2018  |  IP: Logged
SecondRateMind
Shipmate
# 18898

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Incidentally, for your information: I am studying religious studies, philosophy, environmental studies and politics. I would hate to be advised that I cannot post on these topics, just because I am learning about them. Or are only the ignorant and/or graduated to be tolerated, here, with no space for the rest of us, in between?

Best wishes again, 2RM.

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2018  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Your case was not helped by your previous assertion here:
quote:
in response to homework threads, that I'll be less honest in future vis-a-vis the issues arising from my studies that interest me.
I might have given you the benefit of the doubt had it not been for that.

Of course we don't have 20-20 discernment on what a homework thread is, but it's true we're really not interested in doing people's homework for them.

If that isn't what you're about, then in future it would help if, in an OP, you ventured some of your own opinions instead of just referring to others', and if you do refer to others' opinions to support your argument, provide linked sources rather than expect others to find them for you.

(By the way, you don't have to find a "christian" angle to any topic you wish to discuss).

If you do that then I'm sure you can contribute plenty here. Contribution does not mean agreement, and we welcome robust debate, provided it's within the letter and the spirit of the Ten Commandments.

Just bear in mind that in view of your earlier comments, you have a bit of work to do to demonstrate you've understood that.

--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17847 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The part of me that looks to trends informs me that if people are narrowly qualified and knowledgeable, they are easier to direct, control, misinform or propagandize, and otherwise keep them conforming as those who have an interest in keeping things orderly in a consumer society want.

We all need to have basic knowledge of science, literature, language, economics, history, other cultures and religions, our own culture. I'm biased to say keep yourself as broad as you can. Which also apologises for the 5 years I spend as an undergraduate student, taking 6 instead of 5 classes and also taking compressed courses in the spring and summer terms.

I decry students from any discipline who cannot quote any poetry, have no knowledge of literature, cannot articulate the theory of natural selection, don't know how chemical bonds form, don't know what calculus is, don't know how an internal combustion engine works, have never played a team sport, or worked in a lousy physical labour job. They can specialise later. Start broad.

Posts: 11454 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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Hear, hear, NP.

That said, I'll confess (though neither host nor admin here), the OP of the thread in question looked very like a homework essay to me, albeit not a very well-constructed one. In my experience (at least with college students of the traditional sorts of ages / backgrounds in a US context), very general essay questions like this tend to yield very general responses, padded with copious lashings of bafflegab.

I have many colleagues who keep setting such questions for undergraduates, though.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

Posts: 366 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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Ohher, I am calling you to the Circus.

--------------------
To learn which questions are unanswerable, and not to answer them: this skill is most needful in times of stress and darkness.”
― Ursula K. Le Guin
blog

Posts: 9035 | From: Somewhere else | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Your case was not helped by your previous assertion here:
quote:
in response to homework threads, that I'll be less honest in future vis-a-vis the issues arising from my studies that interest me.
I might have given you the benefit of the doubt had it not been for that.

Of course we don't have 20-20 discernment on what a homework thread is, but it's true we're really not interested in doing people's homework for them.

SecondRateMind

I believe you need to face facts here. You screwed the pooch.

Your post quoted by Eutychus is damning. You declared an insincere intention to mislead the Hosts. Such actions are a disrespect of the Ship's crew (Hosts and Admin). They do not just damage your own credibility. They may bring to to the attention of Admin under Commandment 6.

Trying to be constructive here, I think you need to climb down. That applies even if you claim the self-condemning post was some kind of joke. It sure didn't read like a joke. It also applies if you did not intend to use the thread under discussion here as a homework thread. How are Hosts supposed to know whether your intentions are sincere or not after your own declaration of intent?

As a matter of the guidelines, homework threads are not allowed since the intention is not to have a serious discussion, the clearly stated fundamental purpose of Purgatory, but to gather information and opinions for one's own purposes.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21318 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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In the interests of full disclosure: I was the one that alerted the Purg hosts to the presence of a(nother) potential homework thread.

Because your OP looked very much like the essay question "What is the purpose of education? Discuss." And you had already queered your pitch with your much-linked comment about wanting to slip homework threads under the host's radar. So I flagged your OP backstage, so that the Purg hosts could decide for themselves as to whether they thought something was off, or whether my initial impressions were wrong.

So while closing the thread may seem arbitrary and capricious, it wasn't just one person's whim because they've got it in for you.

Also, of your last 44 posts, 44 of them have been on threads you yourself have initiated. Engaging with other people's discussions is part of being a shipmate.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9100 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710

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Arbitrary and capricious seems to be the norm.
Posts: 955 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Arbitrary and capricious seems to be the norm.

Don’t bogart whatever you are smoking

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17578 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
SecondRateMind
Shipmate
# 18898

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OK, I'm willing to arrive at a gentleman's agreement, if you are. I'll commit not post 'homework' threads, if you will agree not to close down the topics I want to discuss. That doesn't mean I won't raise points relevant to my studies, but it does mean I won't expect you to do my essays for me. As for engaging with other people's posts, well, I'm quite willing to do that too, as and when I have some pertinent point or point of view to state.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2018  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by SecondRateMind:
OK, I'm willing to arrive at a gentleman's agreement, if you are. I'll commit not post 'homework' threads, if you will agree not to close down the topics I want to discuss. That doesn't mean I won't raise points relevant to my studies, but it does mean I won't expect you to do my essays for me. As for engaging with other people's posts, well, I'm quite willing to do that too, as and when I have some pertinent point or point of view to state.

Best wishes, 2RM.

For what it's worth SecondRateMind, I think you would be better off engaging in existing threads. I can't believe there's nothing here to interest you. Some threads might have been going on for a while but reading the existing posts could well be of value to you.

Regards, Sioni

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24242 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by SecondRateMind:
OK, I'm willing to arrive at a gentleman's agreement, if you are. I'll commit not post 'homework' threads, if you will agree not to close down the topics I want to discuss. That doesn't mean I won't raise points relevant to my studies, but it does mean I won't expect you to do my essays for me. As for engaging with other people's posts, well, I'm quite willing to do that too, as and when I have some pertinent point or point of view to state.

Best wishes, 2RM.

IOW: Here are my terms on how you may run your enterprise. Nice.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17578 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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Well, that's a bit of a climb down, thanks. But Hosts can't commit to close down threads you want discussed. There may be reasons other than your best intentions. Threads don't get closed all that often, but there are other Commandment breach reasons by any Shipmate, not just you. Threads may get closed because they stop being serious discussion. Threads may get closed, or transferred to Hell, because they become too Hellish for Purgatory. Threads may get closed because of Commandment 7, 8 or 9 breaches. There are other reasons as well, but those examples should be sufficient to show you why you can't have a gentleman's agreement on your terms.

Don't know about other Hosts but I'm happy to accept a commitment not to post homework threads and see how threads develop. It might take you a while to restore credibility lost by the post where you shot yourself in the foot, but I'm prepared to cut you some slack.

In the end, that's not my decision alone. Your complaint here was directly against Eutychus, only indirectly against me. I hope you can see that your own words caused the ruling. So I'd like to hear from my colleague.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21318 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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Sorry, that should have said 'not to close down'. Probably obvious from context.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21318 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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I'm re-opening the thread, not as a gentlemen's agreement but as a considered good faith gesture after discussion. It's up to you to respond appropriately.

--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17847 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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SecondRateMind

You're lucky. You completely lost the argument here because you screwed up your own case. I hope you appreciate that. So don't waste this second chance. Mind how you go.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21318 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
SecondRateMind
Shipmate
# 18898

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The thing is, I'm not particularly interested in scoring points and winning arguments. I just want to save the world. I can't do it by myself, but I hope that, by contributing to the 'Great Debate' of the world, I might make some, small, contribution. And I can't do that, here, if my threads are routinely closed as a matter of general policy. So, I will abide by my part of the agreement, considering that my word, once given, is rarely broken, and only when circumstances beyond my power to resist intervene.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[ 29. January 2018, 14:20: Message edited by: SecondRateMind ]

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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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Hold hard. You just tried to score a point. And made a mistake.

There is no agreement. There is instead a gesture of good faith. Don't waste it.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21318 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
SecondRateMind
Shipmate
# 18898

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Hold hard. You just tried to score a point. And made a mistake.

There is no agreement. There is instead a gesture of good faith. Don't waste it.

There is a difference between making a point, and 'scoring a point'. One is necessary to any rational argument, the other is a somewhat petty, egotistical motivation for engaging in discussion.

I thank you for your gesture of good faith. In return, I commit etc, etc. That's all I was trying to say.

I'll see you in discussion, in Purgatory.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2018  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by SecondRateMind:
That doesn't mean I won't raise points relevant to my studies, but it does mean I won't expect you to do my essays for me.

Which is all we ask for.

I'm past the point of writing essays, but I do prepare sermons. I don't come here looking for help preparing a sermon, though discussions over the last (almost) 20 years certainly have informed my opinions and may end up influencing what I preach. I do, fairly regularly, see something new or interesting in the texts I'm given and have started new threads as a result of that - but, by that point the sermon is largely written (if not actually preached) and discussions here therefore don't end up in what I preach.

If you take an analogous approach then I'm sure when you research and write your essays you will find things that you hadn't previously come across and find interesting. We would welcome you sharing what you find interesting, because the chances are someone else here may find it interesting (no guarantees about that though), after you've written the essay.

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32358 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged


 
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