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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Goodbye England's rose, may you ever grow in our hearts
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Stoker
Shipmate
# 11939
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Posted
I was recently reflecting that this vomit inducing bout of musical sycophancy is actually the biggest selling single in the world (33 million sold).
So why is it never mentioned, played or discussed in public?
To me, the fact that it is so corny, sycophantic and self indulgent means it sums up the hideous display of "public grief" we saw at the time of Diana's death.
Perhaps it's like when you get really drunk and do something really offensive or embarrasing. Everyone can remember it, but no-one wants to mention it!
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Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stoker:
So why is it never mentioned, played or discussed in public?
Because it's shit.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Stoker:
So why is it never mentioned, played or discussed in public?
Because it's shit.
(American "obviously I don't get it" moment)
So what, people download it, and then don't admit they like it?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Heard it played in a supermarket the other day. Luckily it's not on a lot now.
However, I must admit I've never ever really listened to the lyrics; I just find it a variation of the original 'Candle in the Wind', with slightly different tune and text. And it seems to me, that is all there is. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
So what, people download it, and then don't admit they like it?
Oh no, every one of those 33m sales was in the first few months after Diana died. It was being bought in vast numbers by a bunch of over-emotional sheeple who thought that having a copy in their houses somehow made them part of the event.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
When I heard the news of Diana's death, Candle in the wind was the first song I thought of. In fact, if memory serves, I actually sat down at a piano and played it. Should I claim prior art?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
You have always been a visionary, Euty. Or is that an audionary? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I play it every day, sometimes twice.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
You have always been a visionary, Euty. Or is that an audionary?
Extraudionary, please.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I play it every day, sometimes twice.
AtB, Pyx_e
See, I sense that you're being sarcastic, but at the same time I would really respect someone who admitted something like that, especially considering the fact that there is apparently some intrinsic popular shame in being moved by the song. Courage. Impressive.
This has nothing to do with my personal opinion-- I loved the original song, as a lovely homage to Marilyn Monroe, and always thought Diana deserved more than a retread. But to hell with me and my opinion-- if it touched someone, and helped them center themselves in a time of inarguable national grief, who the hell am I to turn up my nose?
[ 23. June 2012, 08:12: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Silly maudlin emotional rubbish - I was sad when she died, don't get me wrong, but this song seemed to reduce the whole occasion to ridicule.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
When I heard the song I got the feeling that Elton John forgot until 5 minutes before the funeral that he was supposed to do a song to honor Diana. He really could have done much, much better than that sappy recycled reject.
[ 23. June 2012, 08:16: Message edited by: Niteowl2 ]
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I thought it was an attempt to romanticise her death by tying it to the popular image of Marilyn Munroe (not that her actual death was romantic either). Raise her above the sleaze etc - and using a pre-existing tune gives instant familiarity.
I felt the public putting their emotional needs above those of the immediate family, especially the children, was unpleasant and thoughtless. Having the children walk behind their mother's coffin in front of millions was quasi-abusive frankly. But can you imagine the public reaction if they had announced a private funeral for the sake of the children ? (Perhaps with a public memorial service afterwards.) At that time I think there quite possibly would have been riots - the whole thing was insane.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
I never understood the mass grief that happened. It was very sad it happened of course but.....
I never met her. Only knew her from television and I suspect the same is true for 99.9% of the peep who stood weeping at the barriers. I don't get where the emotional connection for someone you don't know comes from. I was sadder when Dougles Adams died and that came from having read all his books.
As for the song in question I think this one is a lot better.
Elton John sings an emotional song.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
How wise, enlightened, kind, understanding ...
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stoker:
Perhaps it's like when you get really drunk and do something really offensive or embarrasing. Everyone can remember it, but no-one wants to mention it!
Um ... I had totally forgotten it 'till you mentioned it here! I was completely perplexed by the whole thing at the time, still am. I avoided it all by leaving the TV and radio off.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
How wise, enlightened, kind, understanding ...
Well I certainly don't think of myself as wise. As my post states I admit it's something I don't understand and would be grateful if others could enlighten me.
Kind? Well I can see how it would be callous to mock people who are grieving for a lost friend or relative. I'm pointing out the fact that if I read about somebody dying in the newspaper. Someone I didn't know. I could certainly empathise with the family and friends and know that they must be feeling awful. But I couldn't grieve for the dead person myself because, again I didn't know them.
Until Diana's death I thought everyone felt the same way about this. The mass grief was a real eye opener to me and to this day I still don't understand it.
enlighten
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I can't say I've ever heard Candle in the Wind called by the alternative title before. (I lead a sheltered life.)
How is it different to 'Fields of Gold' which many shipmates wanted to play at the death of Miss Molly?
I guess in times of grief, national or personal, you play whatever you find helpful at the time (my brother asked for 'Don't worry be happy' and 'Always look on the bright side of life / death' to be played at his funeral - although very cheesy, they both made us smile and laugh as well as feeling sad, so he chose well). And it doesn't really matter whether 5 million others or nobody else finds the same tune helpful.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
All royalties of the song go to the Princess of Wales' Memorial fund so whatever the demerits of the song it has done some good. Fairly appropriate, too, in memory of someone who was involved in charity work.
Elton John was apparently a very good friend of Diana's, and he asked Taupin to write new words for the tune, and organized the production side of things for the release of it, as a money-making tribute for her charities. It's never been re-leased (according to Wikipedia), and Elton never plays it. According to Wiki he never shall unless requested by Diana's sons.
It was a song of the moment, which is maybe why there's no demand nowadays. No doubt there's also been a bit of sober reflection on the hysteria of that time, too. But I feel it has to be said that if people reacted in such an extraordinary way - which they did - in such numbers, something was going on, in those lives, even if not realistically connected with the death of an ex-royal, future king-mother, and then-girlfriend of a millionaire playboy.
I have to admit I personally felt it was rather cringe-worthy at the funeral; but I also realized that Elton John, as her friend, was doing not only what he had been asked to do and was able to do, but offering his own personal tribute. Compared to some choices of music I've heard and allowed at funerals, it compares pretty well.
Diana herself, quite possibly, would've been much happier with it than the superb Tavener 'Song for Athene', played in the service, or the Te Kanawa excerpt from Verdi's Requiem (I think?); neither of which could arguably be said to have reflected her own personal preferences in music.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I just assumed at the time that the mass grief reflected something archetypal going on in people, maybe 'death of a princess', as in fairy tales, or the Cinderella theme, the unwanted wife, the damaged feminine, and so on.
But it would be quite difficult to actually ascertain this, although I suppose you could interview people.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
I can't say I've ever heard Candle in the Wind called by the alternative title before. (I lead a sheltered life.)
How is it different to 'Fields of Gold' which many shipmates wanted to play at the death of Miss Molly?
Nobody ever considered turning a cheesy song into something worse for Miss Molly.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
When I heard the news of Diana's death, Candle in the wind was the first song I thought of. In fact, if memory serves, I actually sat down at a piano and played it. Should I claim prior art?
A person named Diana died and the first song that came to your mind begins, "Goodbye, Norma Jean?"
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
When I heard the news of Diana's death, Candle in the wind was the first song I thought of. In fact, if memory serves, I actually sat down at a piano and played it. Should I claim prior art?
A person named Diana died and the first song that came to your mind begins, "Goodbye, Norma Jean?"
Not to speak for Eutychus, but I think some of us can make the leap from the actual name used in the song, to "this is a song about an immensely popular famous woman who was adored from afar by many, and who died tragically young." I mean, there is a song called "Diana" so I suppose someone with a more literal turn of mind might have sat down to play that upon hearing of Diana's death, but which of the songs seems to you more appropriate to the occasion?
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I can remember when I heard that Elton John was to sing at the funeral, my first thought, with horror, was 'Oh no, he'll do 'Candle in the Wind''.
I was not a fan of the Princess of Wales at all and regarded all the emotion at the time as some sort of collective madness. Although I also recall the odd feeling of disbelief and strangeness when I first heard the news of her death, so perhaps I slightly shared in that madness, albeit briefly.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I play it every day, sometimes twice.
AtB, Pyx_e
See, I sense that you're being sarcastic, but at the same time I would really respect someone who admitted something like that, especially considering the fact that there is apparently some intrinsic popular shame in being moved by the song. Courage. Impressive.
This has nothing to do with my personal opinion-- I loved the original song, as a lovely homage to Marilyn Monroe, and always thought Diana deserved more than a retread. But to hell with me and my opinion-- if it touched someone, and helped them center themselves in a time of inarguable national grief, who the hell am I to turn up my nose?
It's simpler than that. We used to have cats shit on the grass all the time. I tested various tunes and CitW was (and remains) the most effective/hated by cats about to have a shit.
Super sensative motion detectors pick up the puckering of a cats anus within 27 meters of my back door and the 6 hidden speakers blare it out.
Neighbours are getting a bit pissy mind.
Atb Pyx_e.
[ 23. June 2012, 15:01: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I find 'Who let the dogs out?' to be a much more effective deterrent.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
George me old Spigot, when she was killed my first reaction was a grim, head shaking 'an accident waiting to happen'. My wife and daughter reacted otherwise. Brit. understatement. So we eventually drove up to Althorp and my little girl picked some wild flowers and I insisted, against my wife's hesistancy, that we take them to the House and we did and the there was a massive collection of flowers already and the police were excellent. Still moved.
The mood had caught. Me. The way Beatrice Campbell wrote and broadcast on her, what Bishop Chartres said about her theology blowing him away. In an Indian restaurant later that week the waiter, from the subcontinent, was desperate to talk about it. I worked at Northampton University where the intranet traffic was unfettered that week and I responded as here to the unfeeling, modern, analytical, 'superior', bewildered response that my initial one is a subset of.
I was congratulated by my head of department, which amazed me. For saying what the little people all thought.
The waiter resonated strongly when I said that a chief of the tribe had died. A KING had died. A leader of the kin. One of us. It's all about projection of the idealized self (religion), transference even. Mystical. Tribal. Shamanistic.
You don't have to be Persian to be vastly moved by Xerxes Largo. I find it amazing that late modern people cannot make the transition to postmodern, to open up to all of this. To being anthropos. Man the animal.
Her life and death were Greek tragedy. The tide of flowers in Mall. It was noted on the day of her funeral that there was NO recorded crime in London. A very law abiding pastor friend was the M1 heading south as the cortege approached. EVERYBODY stopped and got out and waited and watched in silence. Apart the police who harrassed people who ALL ignored them. They gave up.
One of the reasons we ALL love Clive James is that he loves ALL of culture, high and low, which are inseperable and as in non-standard Englishes, to be RESPECTED.
Do you remember when the cortege started ? Only poor ONE woman lost control by crying out 'Diana!'. This was an AWESOME tribal spectacle. To not be moved by it takes an ... unworthy effort. Or something clinical is it work.
In the ... yeah, awesome series World At War a German socialist reflected how in one of the Nazi rallies, possibly Nuremberg, he was in the crowd and felt such eros - longing - to be part of it, whilst utterly rejecting it.
He was real.
Part of us had died and we mourned. Simple. Let's analyse all we want and can. And respect ourselves and our 'lesser' brothers and sisters too.
Poor rhetoric I'm sure.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Sorry, the flowers in the Mall - given away free by all the florists. I wore a mourning ribbon on my jacket lapel. School girls were impressed.
We are to mourn with the mourning are we not? Weep with those who weep. Pity those who can't ...
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
I was not a fan of the Princess of Wales at all and regarded all the emotion at the time as some sort of collective madness. Although I also recall the odd feeling of disbelief and strangeness when I first heard the news of her death, so perhaps I slightly shared in that madness, albeit briefly.
I wasn't a fan of Diana's either but think her death keyed into a number of archetypes. There was the death of the fairytale princess with the cold, indifferent husband; the glamorous, charitable princess who was the role model for young girls; one of a pair of star-crossed lovers, tragically killed before they could marry (well, who knows); the young mother of two boys; and probably more I haven't thought of. People may well have seen in it something they could relate to, but that something would have been different, depending on the person.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Or.......
We were as caught up in the culture of fame, sex and celebrity that reflects our oh too human desire or passion for idolatry that as the princess of who we had raised up on a stick to admire, covet and spit at died so a brief window on the hopelessness of our lives overcame us and we wailed that she had dared show us how utterly vacuous, fetid and broken our lives had become.
We did not greave her, we wailed because the utter truth of our lives were shown us. That we would happily leave our own parents in a puddle of piss without a visit for weeks on end but would throw flowers at a poor women’s body and get pissed and maudlin for days afterwards because papers we paid for hounded her.
So the gods of this world were, are and always will be.
AtB, Pyx_e
As for Diana, none of the above was about her, it was about us. May she rest in peace.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Another facet of the same jewel Pyx_e. Just a darker one that you bring to the party. We need to be kinder Pyx_e. To ourselves.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
A person named Diana died and the first song that came to your mind begins, "Goodbye, Norma Jean?"
Well yes, for pretty much the reasons Chorister gives.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Not Chorister. Trudy. Some female host or other ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) (you can see why the jump from "Norma Jean" to "Diana" wasn't too challenging for me...)
[ 23. June 2012, 16:40: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
Since it was played in a church service by Elton John, can we please have this thread transferred to Dead Horses? ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
When I heard the news of Diana's death, Candle in the wind was the first song I thought of. In fact, if memory serves, I actually sat down at a piano and played it. Should I claim prior art?
A person named Diana died and the first song that came to your mind begins, "Goodbye, Norma Jean?"
"Elton John has a thing for writing songs about dead blondes." - Keith Richards
link
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
A person named Diana died and the first song that came to your mind begins, "Goodbye, Norma Jean?"
Well yes, for pretty much the reasons Chorister gives.
Like M, I assumed Elton John would play Candle in the Wind because Elton John was going to play at Diana's funeral. Taupin wrote new lyrics because the lyrics about Marilyn Monroe didn't really apply to Diana. Other than being blonde and famous the two women weren't really that much alike. Even the chorus which stayed unchanged in Goodbye England's Rose applies much more to Marilyn Monroe.
I suppose Bernie Taupin could have changed the words of Daniel to Diana. I'm always surprised at the number of people who remember the song Daniel because somebody named Daniel died. In the song, Daniel didn't die. He moved to Spain. It's right there in the first two lines, "Daniel is travelling tonight on a plane. I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain." I'm sure it's the, "Lord, I miss Daniel, oh I miss him so much," line that does it.
Don't even get me started on Levon...
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
? Steady, that's SACRED, wotchew mean ?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I want to add that my mood changed very swiftly - by the next day - and I was completely unmoved by the funeral. I thought it was completely over the top and couldn't understand the emotion by then.
You have to be sorry that someone died in that way but for crying out loud.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
I was not a fan of the Princess of Wales at all and regarded all the emotion at the time as some sort of collective madness. Although I also recall the odd feeling of disbelief and strangeness when I first heard the news of her death, so perhaps I slightly shared in that madness, albeit briefly.
I wasn't a fan of Diana's either but think her death keyed into a number of archetypes. There was the death of the fairytale princess with the cold, indifferent husband; the glamorous, charitable princess who was the role model for young girls; one of a pair of star-crossed lovers, tragically killed before they could marry (well, who knows); the young mother of two boys; and probably more I haven't thought of. People may well have seen in it something they could relate to, but that something would have been different, depending on the person.
Yes, I thought it was folk religion, possibly tied up with the damaged feminine, or damaged goddess figure. I went along to Kensington Palace to see the flowers, and it was an amazing spectacle, and I thought, very moving. Just the silence of the crowd, the carpet of flowers, the death of The Princess who had come to the tower in order to find life, but found death. Eerie.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
At least it was a nail in the coffin of the official Conservatives.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, I thought it was folk religion, possibly tied up with the damaged feminine, or damaged goddess figure. I went along to Kensington Palace to see the flowers, and it was an amazing spectacle, and I thought, very moving. Just the silence of the crowd, the carpet of flowers, the death of The Princess who had come to the tower in order to find life, but found death. Eerie.
Yes (sorry, I didn't see your earlier post). I went to Birmingham, and there were crowds of people standing around outside the cathedral in silence, just looking at the flowers that covered a large part of the lawn, and sad-eyed women in black coming to lay more.
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
I want to add that my mood changed very swiftly - by the next day - and I was completely unmoved by the funeral. I thought it was completely over the top and couldn't understand the emotion by then.
I was unmoved until I saw the two young princes walking behind the coffin. I was OK after that - but knew it had got well and truly out of hand when they had Books of Condolences everywhere you went, including by the checkouts in the supermarket.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Ah, but one thing that we can say about folk religion is that it is well and truly naff. So, when the aesthetes and the intellectuals turn their noses up at the vulgarity, we know (sometimes) that we are on to something vibrant. Not always true, mind you.
I see the parallel with popular culture - things like horror and sci-fi are vibrant, and used to attract disapproval, but now, by a normal process of cultural reversal, are trendy. So look for something else naff!
Well, folk Christianity is naff, isn't it? Touch the toe of St Peter in the cathedral.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Happy to be naff. Eric Sykes taught me that. I signed the book. Just once of course. We British (whether from Pakistan, Jamaica, Tanzania or the Irish Republic or an old mongrel like me) EXCEL at naff. Johnny foreign eat your heart out. With Coleman's. The Jubilee and its awful concert (apart from Tom Jones). The North European Monsoon.
Aye the boys behind the coffin, noblesse certainly obliged there.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Ah, but one thing that we can say about folk religion is that it is well and truly naff. So, when the aesthetes and the intellectuals turn their noses up at the vulgarity, we know (sometimes) that we are on to something vibrant. Not always true, mind you.
There were cut-out coupons in the local paper too, that you could sign and send back which would be pasted into a book to be sent to the Palace.
I didn't mind that; what I thought was really senseless, and still do, is the custom that's sprung up of leaving teddy bears at accident sites along with the flowers. Flowers I can understand, and they're ephemeral, but soft toys? I remember seeing those around the railings of Kensington Palace and wondering why.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Come on Ariel. Reach in, reach back, reach down. They are an appalling sad mess six months later in the rain and should evoke NOTHING but our sympathy and blessing nonetheless and BECAUSE of that.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
As for Diana, none of the above was about her, it was about us. May she rest in peace.
Indeed. I remember Sue Townsend saying as much.
I'll add that I believe the issue of publically showing grief and unhappiness is not an easy one in Britain, and this was a time when it became OK to do so.
Group moods are very powerful. I remember going to sign the book of remembrance in Chester cathedral and feeling a bit emotional as I walked away from the book. Later I was to think that this was all over the top, but I got caught up in the group mood.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Aw, come on, teddy bears are JUST CUTE. And as the man said, when they are all wet and soggy in the rain, they are INCREDIBLY CUTE.
I have 50 in the back of my van, actually, a fiver each, or the whole lot for a century.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I can remember watching news footage from other countries over the years, showing scenes of great public emotion over 'the death of our great leader', and thinking 'It could never happen in Britain.' But that was in the days of the British stiff upper-lip - those days are gone. It was as if the whole country had gone on an Alpha Weekend....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
I remember Sue Townsend saying as much.
And an article and thread on the Ship of Fools about it. One of the first I remember.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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