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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Zach82, why you don't just shut the fuck up?
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
I really don't understand why everyone capitalizes "orfeo".
A disgrace.
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
It doesn't say anything to you that I just flat out admitted I was wrong, but that didn't change Orfeo's hissy fit one bit?
Sure, he has lessons to learn about himself too. But that doesn't make your own any less.
Can you not see how this illustrates the very thing that Orfeo was trying to say? I only said that I thought you had lessons to learn from all this. But you seem to have taken that to mean that I also think that Orfeo is entirely blameless, something I never said (and don't think).
If I'd had two hell calls in a month, I'd probably take a good look at myself, even if I think that the people calling me there are wrong. For whatever reason, you don't seem to want to do that - that the grievances the other people aren't important enough or whatever. But hey, that's your loss. Despite our own disagreements, I quite like your posts most of the time. I just think it's a shame that you don't seem to want to take some of this stuff on board - Gam also had some pertinent stuff to say in his own childish way.
Oh, and Evensong, iPads capitalise the 'o', and I can't be bothered to correct it every time. Hey ho.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I read my writing critically and realized I was wrong, but that doesn't make the long posts about how I don't get it and will never get it stop. God help me.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
You omitted to apologise - try it, it might work.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I do apologize for making the mistake of thinking I had been arguing with someone that was informed about the issue and had a coherent theology, and for taking so long to recognize that. I do have the habit of arguing like I do with other theologians.
Not that it will make any difference, since Orfeo has a very different idea of what happened.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
That's not really an apology is it ? It is more a sarcastic put down.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
It's an apology for what really happened. He only admitted he didn't have a coherent theology, and continues to think that his readings on wikipedia trumps everything I have said.
Orfeo continues to believe that this misunderstanding was the result of my absolute stupidity and viciousness failing to understand his coherence and fairness. That isn't what happened. I can't stop him from thinking that, but I can resolve to remember that not everyone frames issues like graduate students.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Do you have social skills when you are offline ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
If you are going where you think I are going, you are being silly. People in real life are far less likely to get angry and offended, and more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. This tantrum here never would have happened offline. Offline, people don't demand profound contrition for simple misunderstandings.
[ 22. July 2012, 17:30: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Offline, people don't throw accusations of heresy around for the fun of it.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
If orpheo is happy with this semi-apology and long winded justification of said apology, I'll close this thread.
Over to him.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I study theology for Pete's sake- I hear it all the time, and never have pitched a tantrum or driven any one to one myself. Where I come from it really does mean little more than "You need to change your argument." Orfeo imagines I had been hammering away at him with remorseless hate for his dread heresy when I felt no such thing. The internet removes all inflection and humanity from words and removes all consequences of getting offended.
I refuse to fill my posts with winking emoticons and person qualifications, so I tend come across as much more acerbic than I actually am. In real life debates here at school, I am usually accused of being stubborn, but never of possessing particularly cruel rhetorical techniques.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
This is like an online version of 'The Biggest Loser", just not about weight. I think orfeo (Look! No cap! Who the fuck cares!) is slightly ahead because he appears to care what Zach thinks of him, but it's a close race, folks!
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Being slightly less of a loser than orfeo is all I really want out of life. Theologians tend to aim low.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Sine, last night I grumbled privately, "You'd think watching two guys go at it all night long would be a lot more fun."
And I thought Evensong's snitty remark was a lovely, subtle commentary on just how stupid this was all getting.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I must respond to that; I think she's a cutie. A pain in the ass, but a cutie. That's the thing, she's probably used to people just overlooking the pain in the ass part because " Aw, how can you stay mad at that cherub face?"
But again, that's probably better said on the other thread.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Being slightly less of a loser than orfeo is all I really want out of life. Theologians tend to aim low.
Try to keep it above the belt buddy, and consider using those academic skills in a practical manner. Maybe along the lines of what engagement with contrition and forgiveness you might be prepared for.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(Serious note) Yeah I think we are all too far along in our historical development, whatever tradition we come from, not to recognize that we are all fumbling toward God together.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
...consider using those academic skills in a practical manner...
Gawd, you really don't know any scholars do you?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
"Back off, man! I'm a theologian!"
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Correction: He is a theology student who THINKS he is a theologian.
Clue: Not everyone on this board is a theology student, let alone a theologian. Perhaps you should remember this when you get involved in an argument about theology. What's normal for you at a college is not normal for everyone else.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I love it when you correct me, Pete.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
If you are going where you think I are going, you are being silly. People in real life are far less likely to get angry and offended, and more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. This tantrum here never would have happened offline. Offline, people don't demand profound contrition for simple misunderstandings.
Where I was going with it is simply that conventional social phrases are not meant to be taken literally. When I say "how are you"casually I don't expect you to tell me. The word sorry without qualification has the function of ending conflicts. Sarcastic comments with a list of qualifications will not achieve this. You were asking why your 'apology' hadn't worked - I told you - you seemed to be having trouble understanding the social convention.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
...consider using those academic skills in a practical manner...
Gawd, you really don't know any scholars do you?
Actually quite a few. Most scholars don't get all huffy and puffy and then belch-fart out of their mouths. They consider what others say, provide reasoned argument and statement, and back off when appropriate. Consider, for example what Think² kindly said.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Clue: Not everyone on this board is a theology student, let alone a theologian. Perhaps you should remember this when you get involved in an argument about theology. What's normal for you at a college is not normal for everyone else
I basically just said that a few posts ago. Thanks for maintaining the "Zach is a clueless meany-face" narrative while Orfeo is away.
quote:
Sarcastic comments with a list of qualifications will not achieve this. You were asking why your 'apology' hadn't worked - I told you - you seemed to be having trouble understanding the social convention.
There was nothing sarcastic about my apology, and I know why full well why it won't work. Despite what people here seem to think, I am not clueless. I just don't care because Orfeo's grudge costs me nothing. It's actually nearly gratifying, since in real life I am quite passive and would readily apologize for things I didn't do just to smooth matters over.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
...consider using those academic skills in a practical manner...
Gawd, you really don't know any scholars do you?
Actually quite a few. Most scholars don't get all huffy and puffy and then belch-fart out of their mouths.
Well, Zach;s right a lot of scholars do just that. But IME the really crazy-smart people I know-- I mean, those scholars that have actually combined the things they have learned into something with the capabilities of a tactical nuke--THOSE people are invariably good listeners, and speak carefully and respectfully when articulating their thoughts and ideas. Because they have nothing to prove.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Sorry, Zach, crosspost. quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
It's actually nearly gratifying, since in real life I am quite passive and would readily apologize for things I didn't do just to smooth matters over.
Heh. I can actually identify with that.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Actually quite a few. Most scholars don't get all huffy and puffy and then belch-fart out of their mouths. They consider what others say, provide reasoned argument and statement, and back off when appropriate.
Most decent humans give others the benefit of the doubt.
quote:
Consider, for example what Think² kindly said.
Kindly said? Joining the "Zach is a clueless meany-butt" bandwagon driven by Oreo is kind? Is that how you people see yourselves?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I'll say this- if Orfeo was really hurt and wanted an unqualified apology he should have pmed me, and I almost certainly would have apologized. But that train left the station the moment he decided to post a temper tantrum in hell instead.
This is why hell calls are such bullshit. You think this is how you get a person, ANY person to listen and speak carefully? Talk about being fucking clueless. Kind and reasonable people don't post in hell calls. Vicious people do.
[ 22. July 2012, 22:28: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
No, Zach, frustrated people post in Hell. Just ask yourself what makes you so frustrating to interact with that you've had two, or is it three, Hell threads with your name on recently.
I'll give you some clues.
- Not every Christian on the Ship is a Lutheran, so your self-evident truths aren't so to all the non-Lutherans;
- You don't seem to accept any form of Christianity other than your narrow interpretation as being Christian;
- You're being a typical student, knowing everything about the subject you're studying and making no allowances for others;
- You are showing a complete and total lack of empathy
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I do apologize for making the mistake of thinking I had been arguing with someone that was informed about the issue and had a coherent theology, and for taking so long to recognize that.
Do you honestly not see how that would read as sarcastic ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Not every Christian on the Ship is a Lutheran, so your self-evident truths aren't so to all the non-Lutherans;
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Zach's not Lutheran!
(like to take ten years off my life, girl.)
[ 22. July 2012, 23:09: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Great, CK is here. We have almost all the usual suspects.
quote:
Do you honestly not see how that would read as sarcastic ?
Yes I can, because the internet robs me of any ability to inflect, and people are unwilling to take my word for it. Do you honestly not see that reasonable adults don't get apologies by starting a bandwagon demanding the person's profound contrition before the face of the upright congregation?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
Now Zach, you know how it is. We like to crush you until you capitulate, then have a tearful reconciliation and welcome you back to the Group Think. It's what we do. It's who we are.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Do you honestly not see that reasonable adults don't get apologies by starting a bandwagon demanding the person's profound contrition before the face of the upright congregation?
Yes, but then I would suggest not using the term apologise and then whinging when it doesn't have the usual effect. Just point out what a stupid idea that is.
[ 22. July 2012, 23:23: Message edited by: Think² ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Oh, I really did feel sorry. But you people have made me get over it well enough.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
If orpheo is happy with this semi-apology and long winded justification of said apology, I'll close this thread.
Over to him.
Well, I am quite literally scrolling past anything that Zach says now. Seriously. So I guess I'll take what I got. Which was a kind of an apology, coupled with a flavour of "but by golly, if I catch you saying anything Pelagian again..."
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Sine, last night I grumbled privately, "You'd think watching two guys go at it all night long would be a lot more fun."
Wow. I thought that only worked with a guy watching two girls! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Wow. I thought that only worked with a guy watching two girls!
As far as I know, I am an oddity.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Sine probably has spare copies.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I must respond to that; I think she's a cutie. A pain in the ass, but a cutie. That's the thing, she's probably used to people just overlooking the pain in the ass part because " Aw, how can you stay mad at that cherub face?"
You didn't notice I wear Prada™?
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I actually had a date last night while you stayed home and fought with Zach. Neener. Neener. Neener.
OK, I am bowing out of this funfest, but before I do that --YES! BOTTOM LINE! PREACH!
[ETA: Of Course, I was the dateless loser sitting at home giggling about the whole thing.]
[ 23. July 2012, 03:28: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I actually had a date last night while you stayed home and fought with Zach. Neener. Neener. Neener.
My boyfriend was out of town. Neener. Neener. Neener.
PS Was it a good date?
[ 23. July 2012, 04:19: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Zach82 protests:
I refuse to fill my posts with winking emoticons
Let your hair down and live a little. An emoticon every month or even every quarter won't kill you.
These aren't animated: ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
But, this one is pretty decent ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Oops. That's my quota until early 2014.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
If orpheo is happy with this semi-apology and long winded justification of said apology, I'll close this thread.
Over to him.
Well, I am quite literally scrolling past anything that Zach says now. Seriously. So I guess I'll take what I got.
Fine. Closed.
Marvin
Hellhost
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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