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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Parish Notices
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
Our CofE church has been in the habit of announcing the parish notices and banns after the post-communion prayer and before the blessing, final hymn and dismissal. Our curate is concerned that this breaks up the service and causes a distraction.
One alternative is to do the notices before the service; but the choir have objected because they will be in the vestry at that point. (It could also have the effect of encouraging lateness if people wanted to miss the notices.)
What are the options for when to do parish notices? What do other shipmates do and what are the up- and down-sides of your practice?
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
There is probably no good time to do the notices … To early in the service and they’ll be missed by latecomers. Too far into the service and some people think they break up the flow of worship. In the past, some posters have suggested putting all the notices on the OHP or on a printed sheet. (Both those approaches assume a level of resources that may not exist across all churches though – and that’s before you consider the environmental friendliness. Last time this got discussed, frin pointed out that not everyone would be able to read printed material either).
The Church Secretary does ours before the children leave for Sunday School and the sermon starts. There’s a natural break at this point anyway. The Tubblet gets visibly excited at this point as she knows that this means she gets to leave “boring old church” and have some fun!
The only thing that I would say is that notices work best when they've been pre-planned and are kept fairly short and on point. Tell people who to go and ask if they want more details after the service rather than trying to tell them everything during the notices. Or getting different people up to do their bit.
Tubbs
[ 10. July 2012, 14:01: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I agree with Tubbs ( ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) that there is no perfect place. We do it where your curate doesn't want to. I could probably suggest a rationale for including notices almost anywhere in the service, but here FWIW are the arguments in favour of that position - There is a break anyway since the next thing we do is announce the final hymn which people stand and sing for
- Everybody is in church, adults, children, latecomers, Sunday Club teachers/helpers
- This is the only point in the service at which the children can share with the congregation what they have been doing in their groups and this creates a break in the flow of worship anyway
- The notices connect what we do on a Sunday morning with the life of the church and community during the rest of the week. They fit with the dismissal "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" which follows.
- This is the best point to remind members of the congregation about things they might need to do before they leave (sign up on lists, collect papers for meetings etc.)
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
We do ours after the Sunday School reports and before the peace. Everyone's in church, there's a natural break, and we can then move from the peace to the offertory and its hymn and on to the Sursum and Great Thanksgiving. That means that there's no break at the ned. We don't have hymn announcements as they're on the board.
Both notices and the peace seem much shorter than many reported one in other threads.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Our notices are at the same time as you have them Hairy Biker.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
We have them after the Processional Hymn, right at the start of the service, before the liturgy has "started".
I don't like it.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Corvo
Shipmate
# 15220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Our CofE church has been in the habit of announcing the parish notices and banns after the post-communion prayer and before the blessing, final hymn and dismissal. Our curate is concerned that this breaks up the service and causes a distraction.
I think your curate is wrong and this is the best place (or better than any other).
Posts: 672 | From: The Most Holy Trinity, Coach Lane, North Shields | Registered: Oct 2009
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
We have them after the Processional Hymn, right at the start of the service, before the liturgy has "started".
I don't like it.
God forbid that we consider a procession a liturgical event...
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
We have them after the Processional Hymn, right at the start of the service, before the liturgy has "started".
I don't like it.
God forbid that we consider a procession a liturgical event...
Quite. Although a non-liturgical censing of the altar would perhaps be more inline with the 19th/early 20th century CofE jurisprudence on the use of incense ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Hey, this thread again!
Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends...
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Our CofE church has been in the habit of announcing the parish notices and banns after the post-communion prayer and before the blessing, final hymn and dismissal. Our curate is concerned that this breaks up the service and causes a distraction.
The curate is right. That is the worst possible place. Complete anti-climax.
I mean, from the pont of view of the flow of the liturgy, the drama, it could hardly be worse than there.
It draws far too much attention to the noitices. In any programmed or scheduled sequence of events done one after another the most prominent place, the most memorable time slot, is whatever happens last. You work up to a climax. When you put on a show the star act gets top billing and is on last and saves the best dong for the encore. If we're putting on a Eucharist, that ought to be the Body and Blood of our Lord, not raffle tickets for the Lift Fund.
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
...before the peace.
Probably the least bad time in a Eucharistic service. There is a little bit of a natural break there.
There are also arguements (often repeated here) for just before the sermon, or just before the intercessions.
Notices at the begining are pointless, because anyone who is late will miss them. OK, you say, that's their fault. But you don't read notices in church to work up a sense of self-righteous indignation against the latecomesrs. You read them because you want people to hear them. So what is the point in reading them if the people aren't there? If a bulletin is so unimportant that you don't really care if everyone is there to hear it, its obviously not important enough to waste time on at all. Just print it or put it on the qwebsite.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Hey, this thread again!
Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends...
Sorry if it's a perenial topic. I did do a search for "notices" but couldn't find the old thread(s).
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Where you have them is precisely where the Roman Rite calls for them to happen (if necessary) and with good reason. Far from being a disruption, if they have a sufficiently missional focus they provide the context for what 'being sent out' is going to look like for this parish community in the coming weeks. It's the dismissal which is the climax.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
There is no ideal place for the notices. The worst one is right at the beginning of the service as it encourages folks to come late.
I tend to do the notices before the sermon as that is where the 1928 BCP rubrics indicate that we do it. However, when the Creed precedes the sermon I tend to prefer putting them after the sermon as indicated in 1549 and 1552.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
There is no ideal place for the notices. The worst one is right at the beginning of the service as it encourages folks to come late.
I tend to do the notices before the sermon as that is where the 1928 BCP rubrics indicate that we do it.
PD
That's where I do them as well. And I keep them brief; usually just reminders about the next month's calendar. Anything more is just unnecessary overload, especially if the announcements are printed in the bulletin.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
All our notices are in the bulletin; if anything needs mention, the rector does this after the Creed, just before asking our prayers for parishioner birthdays, anniversaries, deaths, etc., and then diocesan and Anglican cycles of prayer, all just before we pray the Prayers of the People. Works well for us.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
When people have a problem with notices before the final blessing, it is always because they are lasting too long. Having the notices at that place is meant to be something like:
quote:
...through Christ our Lord. Amen.
Remember that the Old Timers group will be taking a collection on the way out the door to raise funds. They will be bungee jumping for world hunger awareness.
The Lord bless you and keep you...
My suggestion to Hairy Biker would be to move the Banns to the beginning of the sermon. As they announce clerical acts, they can be easily done at that point.
The remainder of the notices can remain before the final blessing, as above, keeping them very brief.
Dire changes to the intercession list can be announced as Oblatus mentioned, once again keeping it very brief:
quote:
...and the life of the world to come. Amen.
We received notice that Dorothy Lou Snodgrass has been admitted to the hospital this morning and requests our prayers.
Let us pray...
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Right now as I begin my time in my new church, I haven't messed with a single element in the order of worship, except to ask people to stand for the Gospel reading and to change the names of several items in the order of worship. Announcements (a.k.a. "Parish Notices") are right after the first hymn, followed immediately by the opening prayer (which since I've been there has been the Collect for Peace).
But later, when we begin reworking the service into something a bit more in line with the order given in The United Methodist Hymnal (Word and Table I), I'll be moving the notices to a place around the time of the peace. It seems to fit least awkwardly there.
We do print them in the bulletin and I only mention things that either didn't make it into the bulletin for whatever reason (usually because it came up between the printing and Sunday morning) or are so important that we want all to take notice. I don't read them verbatim, either, unless I've got a darn good reason to do so.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
We do ours after the Prayers of the People, before the anthem. Mother Rector has done a good job of reigning them in. There used to be a tradition where people with announcements would line the side aisles, and come up one by one to make their announcements. Now, we may have special attention drawn to one or more announcements, but we mostly encourage people to read them on their own. We still lose some momentum, but not as much as we used to.
Why such a reasonable person decided to hold the annual meeting at that point in the service this year, I have no idea. Not only did it cause the service to go on and on, we ended up with a knock down drag out budget fight in the middle of Mass. Suffice it to say that I will probably be visiting another church on that Sunday if that tradition continues. [/tangent}
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Why such a reasonable person decided to hold the annual meeting at that point in the service this year, I have no idea. Not only did it cause the service to go on and on, we ended up with a knock down drag out budget fight in the middle of Mass. Suffice it to say that I will probably be visiting another church on that Sunday if that tradition continues. [/tangent}
We were subjected to that one year. I believe the intent was that the meeting would remain civil if within the confines of the service. For us it did, but it was a weird idea that did not return the next year.
Call me old fashioned, but I don't think everything at a church should be rubber-stamp. Healthy relationships don't work like that. The meeting belongs elsewhere, with opportunity for people to object and express dissent, without being brought down by guilt for acting so during the liturgy.
[ 11. July 2012, 00:39: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Is my shack the only place that does 'em at Coffee Hour?
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
In my experience, most RC places do them in the two places where people are least likely to be there to hear them 1) Before the service 2) Before the blessing. Let's be serious, lots of people leave right after communion.
At the tridentine mass, we do them before the homily, at the novus ordo masses, we do them before the blessing. (Formerly we always did them before the mass, but that changed about two years ago.)
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
At St Docs we have them after final hymn, blessing and dismissal. We then sit, notices, usually brief are given. Occasionally someone will have a special notice, but they are usually short. Then the Angelus and we are to to go in peace, to love and serve the Lord.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
The only Ecclesiantical consensus on this issue seems to be that there is No Good Place to put the announcements. I think the first consideration should be "where does this fit -- or cause the least disruption -- in the flow of the liturgy?" and that answer will probably differ based on the order of service. As an Episcopalian, I prefer an end-of-the-service, or at least a before-the-dismissal position. Or afterwards, at Coffee Hour, which brings me to this: quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Is my shack the only place that does 'em at Coffee Hour?
Nope, my former parish did this and it was a great solution. (Plus, they had fabulous Coffee Hours.) The Rector would give a couple of important notices during the service. For the rest of us, it was Coffee Hour, and it was a hoot: there was a big bell you would ring to get people's attention. It may sound goofy, but people paid just as much attention -- if not more so -- to the announcement given in this relaxed atmosphere as they would have in church (when everyone is just antsy for the service to proceed).
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
... I only mention things that either didn't make it into the bulletin ...
Yes, Lord, Yes! Half our announcements begin, "I'd like to draw your attention to the item in the bulletin that says...." It's enough to make a Good Christian Woman want to throw a hymnal.
I know a lot of places give the announcements before The Peace, but IMHO it just makes that whole section of the liturgy seem like half-time, even more than it does already.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
We seem to get the worst of both worlds at our place. The Rector does a fairly rambling 5-minute welcome at the start of the service (or a record-breaking 15 minutes for the Christingle! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ), then we get another 5-10 mins of banns/notices/waffle at the end before the dismissal. Often they're not things that are on the weekly sheet, but which arguably should be. Sometimes there's feedback and thanks from events which have happened during the previous week - but again, these should really be in the sheet IMO, if only so that the notices aren't dragged out for so loooooong.
I'm a firm believer in keeping notices short & sweet; it's the only way people will pay attention and remember what you've said!
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Is my shack the only place that does 'em at Coffee Hour?
Probably. In England and Wales, Banns then would be invalid.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Corvo
Shipmate
# 15220
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Posted
With us the Vicar reads banns (not very often) after the post communion prayers and then a churchwarden gives the notices from the ambo which is more closer to the people. The change of voice and position helps one to pay attention.
Posts: 672 | From: The Most Holy Trinity, Coach Lane, North Shields | Registered: Oct 2009
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Ours is the same place as the Oper. I tried at the very beginning, but regular late-comers missed them. Also, if we were having retiring collections, or sign-up sheets it's more practical to announce these things just before people leave.
It seems to 'feel' all right, whether it's morning prayer or communion. There's always a kind of pause, while people recruit themselves for the last hymn or blessing.
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
One alternative is to do the notices before the service; but the choir have objected because they will be in the vestry at that point.
That used to happen with us, but now we line up early so we are standing in the aisle to hear the notices.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Is my shack the only place that does 'em at Coffee Hour?
As Enoch said with banns, but I guess you could do them at some other point when there are some.
The problem with the coffee hour is that the people who need to be reminded that church is more than 75 minutes on a Sunday morning are exactly the ones who are not present for coffee.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
With the modern rite I seem to recall that I had a preference for doing them before the blessing. However, I would often forget to wait that long as the other three Sundays were MP, BCP HC, and MP where I did the notices before the sermon. The between the Gospel and the Creed position for the sermon seems to discourage the placing of the notices at that point in the service.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Somewhere i attned from time to time here puts everything in the sermon spot. So it goes: Banns; notices; address.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Surely notices are part of the liturgy?
In England, you'd be hard pressed to get as much as half the congregation for a Coffee ten minutes, let alone an hour.
[ 12. July 2012, 06:08: Message edited by: venbede ]
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
In England, you'd be hard pressed to get as much as half the congregation for a Coffee ten minutes, let alone an hour.
I generally leave right after the service (we don't regular do a coffee hour), but when I get home and sit down for my meal between breakfast and brunch, I read the announcements in the bulletin. I suppose "review" is a better word, since I have typically read them during the down times of the service...waiting for the children to go up for the children's sermon, during the collection, etc.
I also receive a weekly e-newsletter from the church and read it.
[ 12. July 2012, 17:31: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Pulsator Organorum Ineptus
Shipmate
# 2515
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Posted
I don't get this being late thing. I've never been to a church where more than the odd person slipped in after the service had started. Is this a London thing?
Posts: 695 | From: Bronteland | Registered: Mar 2002
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I don't get this being late thing. I've never been to a church where more than the odd person slipped in after the service had started. Is this a London thing?
No, in my experience it is an 'anywhere where the pastor does the notices at the beginning' thing.
I have a relatively few late comers but I am always careful to start on time and the notices are before the sermon and kept sort.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
What's the perfect place to put the notices?
In the phreakin' bulletin!
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Is my shack the only place that does 'em at Coffee Hour?
Nope, my former parish did this and it was a great solution. (Plus, they had fabulous Coffee Hours.) The Rector would give a couple of important notices during the service. For the rest of us, it was Coffee Hour, and it was a hoot: there was a big bell you would ring to get people's attention. It may sound goofy, but people paid just as much attention -- if not more so -- to the announcement given in this relaxed atmosphere as they would have in church (when everyone is just antsy for the service to proceed).
The only notice ever given in church is "Hey, coffee hour, announcements, be there or check the webpage, oh, btw, this is how to get served up a blessing instead of the Eucharist."
Oops, wait, not really, there is a brief announcement period in the beginning of the service right now by the MC, but it's to tell everyone that we don't have bulletins so here's the first hymn and you can follow along in page 355 of the red BCP in your pew. It's an--- interesting experiment. I'm not sure how I feel about it, mostly 'cause I'm an MC sometimes.
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Probably. In England and Wales, Banns then would be invalid.
Pond difference. In my nearly 10 years sailing the Good Ship TEC, I've heard banns read once. And the Reverend Mother reading it had her maniple on.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I don't get this being late thing.
Isn't it why the service always starts with a hymn? It's a few minutes buffer for those who can't get there in time (I tell myself as I walk up the path at 09:32 - again!).
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I don't get this being late thing. I've never been to a church where more than the odd person slipped in after the service had started. Is this a London thing?
Not in South West Ireland, no.
Here it's allegedly related to milking cows. Allegedly. Being late is in fact an accepted tradition in this part of the country, apparently.
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I don't get this being late thing. I've never been to a church where more than the odd person slipped in after the service had started. Is this a London thing?
Our congregation is twice the size by the Gospel than it is at the end of the introit hymn.
It annoys the new Vicar no end. He's preached about it twice already - though some people are so late they miss the Homily! Reminds me of my Headmaster many years ago "this is a message for those of you who aren't here...".
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I don't get this being late thing. I've never been to a church where more than the odd person slipped in after the service had started. Is this a London thing?
In Creamtealand it's more of an evangelical thing - the idea is that you welcome people however and whenever they arrive, because you would rather they were there late, or in their beach clothes, or unwashed and unshaven, than not there at all. It is typical in churches which have lots of young families with large numbers of children, who presumably are a devil to get ready in time, and in churches where worship is of the very informal kind, and where children are alloped to run around the church during the service.
I can see both sides of the issue - but prefer to go to a rather more orderly church myself.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
In Creamtealand it's more of an evangelical thing - the idea is that you welcome people however and whenever they arrive, because you would rather they were there late, or in their beach clothes, or unwashed and unshaven, than not there at all.
Interesting, because though I can't speak for most evangelical churches, in my experience it's an Anglo-catholic thing! Though probably it would be truer to say it's a class thing (because most a-c churches I know are urban working class), and conventional middle-class and 'respectable' working class congregations are more likely to be punctual than less organised working class or the bohemian middle class. So it's possibly more of a rural/ small town versus urban divide than anything.
[and - tangent warning - this reminds me of a teenage confirmation candidate many years ago who insisted on wearing jeans all the time, and she never appeared again in church after her first communion because her mother, who hardly ever came to church, insisted that jeans were inappropriate attire. Needless to say, she was 'respectable working class']
[ 13. July 2012, 15:46: Message edited by: Angloid ]
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
I think any comment by me beyond this sentence would be redundant.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I don't get this being late thing. I've never been to a church where more than the odd person slipped in after the service had started. Is this a London thing?
Not in South West Ireland, no.
Here it's allegedly related to milking cows. Allegedly. Being late is in fact an accepted tradition in this part of the country, apparently.
In the South and West of Ireland folks only take notice of the hour hand on a watch. In which case there is not much difference between 10.48am, 11.00am, and 11.12am.
We have a version of the same thing round here it is known as Mexican, Reservation, Indian Standard time.
PD
[ 13. July 2012, 18:00: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Morlader
Shipmate
# 16040
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Posted
Our time by the sun is some 20 minutes after London time, to which our clocks are set. Many locals keep Cornish time ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ?
[Mind you, it has been said, maybe Apocryphally, "We will shortly be landing at Newquay, Cornwall, airport; please set your watches back 1 century".]
When on a business trip to Lima, Peru, we had to announce times as "European time" as it was otherwise understood that meetings etc started 1 hour + after the stated time.
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.. to utmost west.
Posts: 858 | From: Not England | Registered: Nov 2010
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
Our congregation is twice the size by the Gospel than it is at the end of the introit hymn.
Same here. I've counted sometimes - usually less than half the eventual congregation will be seated in the pews when the service starts. Most will arrive in the first five minutes but quite large numbers will still be turning up after fifteen (often including me), and a few at thirty.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
Our congregation is twice the size by the Gospel than it is at the end of the introit hymn.
Same here. I've counted sometimes - usually less than half the eventual congregation will be seated in the pews when the service starts. Most will arrive in the first five minutes but quite large numbers will still be turning up after fifteen (often including me), and a few at thirty.
I guess that this must be something that is in local or even a church culture. It is not something that has been a feature, of any church I have belonged to, working class, middle class, town/city/village.
However it is common for everybody to dive in at the last moment. The vicar or warden can be panicing up to the moment the service starts, about whether the intercessor or lesson reader will turn up, but by the time of the first chord they will be there.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Different masses have different punctuality cultures here! We only have a handful that arrive after the opening hymn at any of them, though.
It'll be interesting to see whether the punctuality of our worshipers changes over the next month. The city are redoing the road in front of the church, making the main doors inaccessible. There are two sets of side doors, but those take you in to a very 'up front' location -- to the East of the whole congregation. I wonder if people will slightly more embarrassed sliding in late this week and get here a little earlier next week.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
A former rector, of mixed memory, at Our Lady of Hardwork, whose righteous pastoral style often included a metaphorical slap upside the head (nothing Zen about it), once ordered the ushers to close and lock the west doors at the beginning of the gospel procession.
That way the really late folk did have to creep in from the northeast corner of the nave in pretty full view of the entire congregation.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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