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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I thought this was about supporting giving laudanum to children to get them to sleep. Which, of course, I am fully in support of, little brats.

Ah well.

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I have always felt the same way, especially in public venues.

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Affirming Calvinism anyone?

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Originally posted by Boogie:
Here is a link for the lazy.

(You're welcome)

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Thank you Boogie
That was brilliant!!

'Old wineskins'....



And having watched an Easter Service from King's College Cambridge, I was horrified to see there were no altar rails, although in all other respects the service was excellent
I think the ghost of the late Archbishop might have something to say about that!!!

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Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
I have always assumed that the site was serious.

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Originally posted by Zach82:

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Affirming Calvinism anyone?

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You know, that's exactly what my fellow theologians at this Roman Catholic seminary I am attending accuse me of doing when I cite Saint Paul or Augustine? It's happened multiple times.

Zach

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Originally posted by sebby:
Having just read 'All Glory, Laud and Honour' by Graham Parry (2006) about the Counter-Reformation in the CofE in the period 1620-40, and the development and use of the arts and reverence in worship and architecture during this brief period before the vile destructiveness of the 17thC Taliban tendency of English puritanism, have any shipmates discovered the website 'Affirming Laudianism' with its hilarious take off of the contemporary church?

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The site has been around for quite a while and is funny; I would agree that the book is interesting even if the author tends to go on a bit about glassmakers. But, Sebby, isn't 'Taliban tendency' a bit tendentious for a heavenly discussion? The puritan iconoclasts were not a particularly attractive bunch; they certainly sought to impose their ideas of worship, church decoration and the like on on those who disagreed with those ideas. Yet my reading of the period, various histories and a couple of biographies of Laud (including the one by Trevor-Roper which probably tells one as much about the author as its subject) suggests that Laud was a rather fussy chap who sought to impose his ideas of worship, church decoration and the like on on those who disagreed with those ideas.... In that, the dispassionate observer would come to the conclusion that there was little to choose between Laud and Dowsing et al. As tolerance was not a 17th century virtue, each behaved as they did. Laud of course went on to make the fatal mistake of trying to impose his ideas on the Scots, which folly cost him - and his royal master (Charles King and Martyr, forsooth!) their heads.

My mental picture of Laud is not of a dislikeable man, but rather a 17th century clerical equivalent of Captain Mainwaring. A pity there was never a film based on his life, the main character played by Arthur Lowe ...


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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.

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Oh dear. I thought we'd settled all that fuss.

What happens when you use the longer version of the Lord's Prayer? Klaxons, the sprinkler alarm goes off, a confessor ropes down from the ceiling to correct your error?

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Neh, they just get all defensive about their Rahner and liberation theology is all. If anything, I'm the one out to correct dread heresy with the Gospel Truth.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Originally posted by Metapelagius:

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Originally posted by sebby:
Having just read 'All Glory, Laud and Honour' by Graham Parry (2006) about the Counter-Reformation in the CofE in the period 1620-40, and the development and use of the arts and reverence in worship and architecture during this brief period before the vile destructiveness of the 17thC Taliban tendency of English puritanism, have any shipmates discovered the website 'Affirming Laudianism' with its hilarious take off of the contemporary church?

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The site has been around for quite a while and is funny; I would agree that the book is interesting even if the author tends to go on a bit about glassmakers. But, Sebby, isn't 'Taliban tendency' a bit tendentious for a heavenly discussion? The puritan iconoclasts were not a particularly attractive bunch; they certainly sought to impose their ideas of worship, church decoration and the like on on those who disagreed with those ideas. Yet my reading of the period, various histories and a couple of biographies of Laud (including the one by Trevor-Roper which probably tells one as much about the author as its subject) suggests that Laud was a rather fussy chap who sought to impose his ideas of worship, church decoration and the like on on those who disagreed with those ideas.... In that, the dispassionate observer would come to the conclusion that there was little to choose between Laud and Dowsing et al.

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Well, except that Laud was right.

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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."

--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM

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Originally posted by Metapelagius:
Laud was a rather fussy chap who sought to impose his ideas of worship, church decoration and the like on on those who disagreed with those ideas

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Originally posted by PD:
I seem to remember reading that John Donne ended up a High Church Calvinist - not an uncommon combination at the time - when he got over being a Papist.

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Of course they aren't TULIP, TULIP did not exist. It really was not even formulated to 1619, so why would anyone prior to that use the formula. It is a specific Reformed formulation in a specific historical circumstances* and has about as much to do with being a good Dutchman as being a Calvinist. You can be Reformed and Calvinist and not TULIP.

Jengie

*Statements of the faith in the Reformed tradition are always contextual

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Originally posted by PD:
I seem to remember reading that John Donne ended up a High Church Calvinist - not an uncommon combination at the time - when he got over being a Papist. Of course, the best known of the High Church Calvinists are Whitgift and to a lesser extent Bancroft, and they sort of represent the 'Anglican orthodoxy' of the 1590s/1600s. Laud represented the new thinking coming in to the C of E through renewed study of the Eastern Fathers initiated by Andrewes, Baro, and Barrett.

PD

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Of course they aren't TULIP, TULIP did not exist. It really was not even formulated to 1619, so why would anyone prior to that use the formula. It is a specific Reformed formulation in a specific historical circumstances* and has about as much to do with being a good Dutchman as being a Calvinist. You can be Reformed and Calvinist and not TULIP.

Jengie

*Statements of the faith in the Reformed tradition are always contextual

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