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Source: (consider it) Thread: fundies
Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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Mark Betts asked ....
quote:
It would be helpful, of course, if you could define precisely who the "fundies" are...
go look in a mirror.

AtB Pyx_e

--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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Sits back and waits

My bets are on Pyx_e.

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Even more so than I was before

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Wow! Ended here a bit sooner than I expected. Yelling at them is no more effective than tying to debate them. The thickness of their skulls, erm, strength of their resolve, is proof against reason, er, debate.

ETA: I agree, Pete, but think it will be a Monty Python Black Knight sort of ending.

[ 02. June 2012, 13:37: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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Why are my ears burning?

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Mark Betts asked ....
quote:
It would be helpful, of course, if you could define precisely who the "fundies" are...
go look in a mirror.

AtB Pyx_e

An intelligent answer would have been much better...

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783

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Those who live in the Bay of Fundy region of New Brunswick, Canada are known as fundies.
Particularly those clergy and elders from the Presbytery of Miramichi.

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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)

Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Well, this was inevitable.

I thought it might be me making the call, but I was distracted by work.

I find it hard to believe that Mark is so stupid that he doesn't have an inkling as to how his behaviour is coming over: however, my credulity is strained when with each post he opens his mouth only long enough to change feet.

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Forward the New Republic

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Evensong
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# 14696

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I don't really see Mark Betts as a fundie......?

Except as the reformed smoker self righteous type against Anglicanism (his former church).

Tho if he continues on this track, no doubt some other One True Church with All The True Authority in the World will come along.....and *poof*, there will go his orthodox faith in a cloud of dust.

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a theological scrapbook

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Mark Betts asked ....
quote:
It would be helpful, of course, if you could define precisely who the "fundies" are...
go look in a mirror.

AtB Pyx_e

An intelligent answer would have been much better...
I was aiming for funny, sigh.


quote:
a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds

Emerson

A fundie loves foolish consistency. I was very clear in my Purg post that either end of any spectrum was too rigid. It was not about you, it was about the danger of closed, extreme positions, full stop.

You took it and twisted it (again as you do on pretty much evey post, on every thread), twisted it to your hurt, one track, driven agenda.

As for all your wittering about charity, mere doing good without doing God. Feed as many as you like but your petty clinging to your trammeled understanding causes hurt.

I noticed your first post, and by your third knew this thread was coming. You are a small minded man.

All the Best, Pyx_e

--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I was aiming for funny, sigh.

Let me give you a piece of advice - don't give up your day-job to become a comedian!

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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My mistake. It's looking increasingly likely that his head is too far up his arse for him to fit his feet in his mouth.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I don't really see Mark Betts as a fundie......?

Except as the reformed smoker self righteous type against Anglicanism (his former church).

Tho if he continues on this track, no doubt some other One True Church with All The True Authority in the World will come along.....and *poof*, there will go his orthodox faith in a cloud of dust.

Oh, of course, yes that is definitely what will happen. And then I will at last see the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which just happens to be the Anglican Church, and we shall dance and sing (and clap!) and all will be well!

Oh dear, I'll have to stop, because I'm falling off my chair laughing!..

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
My mistake. It's looking increasingly likely that his head is too far up his arse for him to fit his feet in his mouth.

The words "pot" and "kettle" spring to mind...

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I don't really see Mark Betts as a fundie......?

Except as the reformed smoker self righteous type against Anglicanism (his former church).

Tho if he continues on this track, no doubt some other One True Church with All The True Authority in the World will come along.....and *poof*, there will go his orthodox faith in a cloud of dust.

Oh, of course, yes that is definitely what will happen. And then I will at last see the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which just happens to be the Anglican Church, and we shall dance and sing (and clap!) and all will be well!

Oh dear, I'll have to stop, because I'm falling off my chair laughing!..

Actually, the last orthodox 'fundie' we had became an atheist one weekend. He became so convinced that one could only be a Proper Christian by understanding Holy Tradition that, when he discovered his grasp of seventh Century Greek wasn't up to the task that he had to stop being Christian. Or something.

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Flinging wide the gates...

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
My mistake. It's looking increasingly likely that his head is too far up his arse for him to fit his feet in his mouth.

The words "pot" and "kettle" spring to mind...
Only to your mind, because it's the only defence against rational thought that you have.

You are not engaging. You are not debating. You are not listening. You are doing nothing, either on this thread or any of the others you are involved in, to make Orthodoxy seem anything but a haven for self-righteous antiintellectual sociopaths. Well done.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
...Only to your mind, because it's the only defence against rational thought that you have.

You are not engaging. You are not debating. You are not listening. You are doing nothing, either on this thread or any of the others you are involved in, to make Orthodoxy seem anything but a haven for self-righteous antiintellectual sociopaths. Well done.

Ah, maybe I should learn from your exemplary example of "rational thought" then...

Erm.... I don't think so!

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
[Actually, the last orthodox 'fundie' we had became an atheist one weekend. He became so convinced that one could only be a Proper Christian by understanding Holy Tradition that, when he discovered his grasp of seventh Century Greek wasn't up to the task that he had to stop being Christian.

IIRC he also believed that only Greeks could be Orthodoc, that it was impossible to convert to Orthodoxy, that Orthodox teaching on the Trinity was that there were three Gods, and that Orthodox teaching on salvation was that it was achieved by ascetic self-denial and separation from the world and in practice only a tiny minority of Christians ever got there, mostly (maybe entirely, I can't remember) Greek Orthodox priests. The priests and monks were the real members of church and lay people merely some sort of friendly support organisation. Sometimes his take on Orthodoxy seemed closer to Catharism than to anything in the New Testament or the Creeds.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Ah, maybe I should learn from your exemplary example of "rational thought" then...

Erm.... I don't think so!

No, certainly no need for you to consider the cause of your postings and the effect it has on other posters.

If you genuinely can't see the pattern here - you post about how only the Orthodox have the right answers to everything, and the rest of us are at best misguided fools and at worst apostates and hardly Christian at all - then you need to read very carefully what Josephine said to you in Purg.

If you can see and you don't care? Great witness, Mark. Great witness. [Disappointed]

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

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Josephine

Orthodox Belle
# 3899

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
...Only to your mind, because it's the only defence against rational thought that you have.

You are not engaging. You are not debating. You are not listening. You are doing nothing, either on this thread or any of the others you are involved in, to make Orthodoxy seem anything but a haven for self-righteous antiintellectual sociopaths. Well done.

Ah, maybe I should learn from your exemplary example of "rational thought" then...

Erm.... I don't think so!

Mark, my dear child, I have attained the right to sit on the Babushka Bench at church, which means that, by customary tradition (if not Holy Tradition), I have the right and the responsibility to tell young men to get their hands out of their pockets, to tell the young women to wipe their lipstick off before they kiss the icons, and to tell the insufferable and arrogant to go home and pray for their own salvation before they embarrass themselves and the Holy Church any further.

When someone tells you that you are making your holy mother, the Church, look bad, you need to take that to heart.

When someone says, "pot, meet kettle," you need to remember what our Lord said about splinters and logs, and spend some time preparing for your next confession.

When you feel like you're right and everyone else is wrong, watch where you step. Having all knowledge is not worth much without love. And love is desperately hard work.

Now get your hands out of your pockets, and go say your prayers.

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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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That's him told then.


Score so far: Everybody: 3 Betts 0

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Even more so than I was before

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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

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Sometimes it is hard to get through the hurt of being attacked in Hell and rationally analyze why the attacks might be occurring.

Deeply held beliefs are important. If you do not hold your beliefs to be important, they are not terribly meaningful.

On the other hand, many people deeply believed that East and West Germany would never reunite. Things happened, people started listening to each other instead of talking at each other, and Germany is one again.

There is an analogy in there somewhere.

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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456

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Please, now can we have a "like" button? Josephine, I'd listen to you any day.

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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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quote:
There is an analogy in there somewhere.

We should build a wall round Betty?

--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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Dang, I thought this thread was about the other Betty. Now there's a fundy for you.

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
That's him told then.


Score so far: Everybody: 3 Betts 0

The problem is that I DO listen to Josephine!

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
That's him told then.


Score so far: Everybody: 3 Betts 0

The problem is that I DO listen to Josephine!
I DO wish Mark Betts would use fewer exclamation marks. Unless he is trying to present himself as a callow youth it does not help him to further his case.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
That's him told then.


Score so far: Everybody: 3 Betts 0

The problem is that I DO listen to Josephine!
I DO wish Mark Betts would use fewer exclamation marks. Unless he is trying to present himself as a callow youth it does not help him to further his case.
I've said thanks to any that have guided me, sorry to those I've offended, now what do you want - penance?

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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You obviously don't listen to Josephine enough, Mark.

Listen, I irritate some people on this Ship at times by being highly Orthophil, yet without crossing the Bosphorus.

You're embarrassing me and I'm not even Orthodox ...

In fact, if you were the only example of an Orthodox Christian I'd ever come across I would go straight down to my nearest synagogue or mosque and ask them to snip some skin off the end of my willy so that I convert to their religion and get as far away as I could from yours ...

Heck, I'd go further. I'd become Buddhist.

Better still, I'd join the National Secular Society so I didn't have to read your painful posts nor listen to your lack of self-awareness rants ever again.

You really don't realise how much of a prat you sound.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
You obviously don't listen to Josephine enough, Mark.

Listen, I irritate some people on this Ship at times by being highly Orthophil, yet without crossing the Bosphorus.

You're embarrassing me and I'm not even Orthodox ...

In fact, if you were the only example of an Orthodox Christian I'd ever come across I would go straight down to my nearest synagogue or mosque and ask them to snip some skin off the end of my willy so that I convert to their religion and get as far away as I could from yours ...

Heck, I'd go further. I'd become Buddhist.

Better still, I'd join the National Secular Society so I didn't have to read your painful posts nor listen to your lack of self-awareness rants ever again.

You really don't realise how much of a prat you sound.

Thanks mate!

Now come on, this is "hell", so a bit of messing is almost compulsory. However, I was serious about listening to Josephine and Michael and my regrets over some of the things I said to people.

Anyhow, as this is "hell" I hope you won't mind me calling you a prat as well ...and you can do whatever you want with your willy, it's not my problem.

[ 02. June 2012, 20:31: Message edited by: Mark Betts ]

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290

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Josephine and Triple Tiara are the sane, compassionate and wise voices of Orthodoxy and the RCC respectively. Most of the rest of us just muddle along and get a bit knee-jerky sometimes [Frown]

Mark, as a convert myself, the best advice is to shut up for at least 5 years about it - read, learn, inwardly digest. I can understand overwhelming enthusiasm (and that's expected, indeed, desirable!) but you really are teaching your babushka to suck eggs and pissing everyone else off in the process.

--------------------
“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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I'm not teaching my babushka (Josephine) anything - she is teaching me!

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I DO wish Mark Betts would use fewer exclamation marks. Unless he is trying to present himself as a callow youth it does not help him to further his case.

Seconded.

I came in here to post exactly that. I had even considered calling him to Hell merely for the exclamation marks.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I don't really see Mark Betts as a fundie......?

Except as the reformed smoker self righteous type against Anglicanism (his former church).

Tho if he continues on this track, no doubt some other One True Church with All The True Authority in the World will come along.....and *poof*, there will go his orthodox faith in a cloud of dust.

Oh, of course, yes that is definitely what will happen. And then I will at last see the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which just happens to be the Anglican Church, and we shall dance and sing (and clap!) and all will be well!

Oh dear, I'll have to stop, because I'm falling off my chair laughing!..

Actually, the last orthodox 'fundie' we had became an atheist one weekend. He became so convinced that one could only be a Proper Christian by understanding Holy Tradition that, when he discovered his grasp of seventh Century Greek wasn't up to the task that he had to stop being Christian. Or something.
I remember that. He became our first Born-Again Fundie Atheist!

--------------------
"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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!!!!!!!!

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I remember that. He became our first Born-Again Fundie Atheist!

Oh, isn't it just wonderful to hear (so-called) christians gloating over a brother's loss of faith? Why aren't you praying for him?

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
I'm not teaching my babushka (Josephine) anything - she is teaching me!

Then, given that Josephine is an excellent teacher, it must follow that you are a poor student. Or a troll. Or something.

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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I remember that. He became our first Born-Again Fundie Atheist!

Oh, isn't it just wonderful to hear (so-called) christians gloating over a brother's loss of faith? Why aren't you praying for him?
How TF do you know that people aren't? Tho', as he does not feel in any need of that atm, those who are his friends just keep up normal, everyday contact which, istm, amounts to about the same thing as far as loving your (possibly atheist) neighbour goes.

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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Josephine

Orthodox Belle
# 3899

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I remember that. He became our first Born-Again Fundie Atheist!

Oh, isn't it just wonderful to hear (so-called) christians gloating over a brother's loss of faith? Why aren't you praying for him?
Mark, leave off the so-called, okay? If they say they're a Christian, there's only one Person who gets to tell them they're wrong, and it's not you.

I suspect there are people here praying for Andrew. But it's hard for people to bless those who curse them, and love those who mistreat them. We're called to do that, of course. But most of us don't manage most of the time.

You weren't here to see how Andrew treated everyone else. If you had been, you might understand the reactions to him a little better.

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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I remember that. He became our first Born-Again Fundie Atheist!

Oh, isn't it just wonderful to hear (so-called) christians gloating over a brother's loss of faith? Why aren't you praying for him?
Who's gloating? And how do you know who is or isn't praying for him? And who the fuck are you to call me, or anyone else, a "so called" Christian?

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Just in case you're worried Josephine, I'm sure I speak for many Shipmates when I say I form my picture of Orthodoxy from you and Mousethief, rather than Marky.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Who's gloating? And how do you know who is or isn't praying for him? And who the fuck are you to call me, or anyone else, a "so called" Christian?

What can't speak can't lie my friend, you've already posted all the evidence I need - pal!

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643

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I wasn't gloating actually - more pointing out the perils of over-confidence in one's faith. Convincing oneself that one's tradition, or Tradition, is flawless, and everyone else is simply Wrong can lead to a jarring experience when one discovers that life isn't quite so black and white.

Even if you think we are wrong, being as openly dismissive of everyone who disagrees with you doesn't seem spiritually healthy. Not that it's any of my business, obviously - but for what it's worth I'd rather you didn't go the same way.

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Flinging wide the gates...

Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Josephine

Orthodox Belle
# 3899

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Who's gloating? And how do you know who is or isn't praying for him? And who the fuck are you to call me, or anyone else, a "so called" Christian?

What can't speak can't lie my friend, you've already posted all the evidence I need - pal!
Mark, before you say anything else, say the prayer of St. Ephraim of Syria. After you've done that, go read the life of St. Moses the Black. And when you've done that, find a copy of the homilies of Dorotheos of Gaza, and read his homily on judging others.

And if you still think, after you've done all that, that you've seen all the evidence you need, then go back to your prayer corner and start over.

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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456

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Well, lookee there, it's time get the popcorn made!

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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!

Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I remember that. He became our first Born-Again Fundie Atheist!

Oh, isn't it just wonderful to hear (so-called) christians gloating over a brother's loss of faith? Why aren't you praying for him?
Mark, leave off the so-called, okay? If they say they're a Christian, there's only one Person who gets to tell them they're wrong, and it's not you.

I suspect there are people here praying for Andrew. But it's hard for people to bless those who curse them, and love those who mistreat them. We're called to do that, of course. But most of us don't manage most of the time.

You weren't here to see how Andrew treated everyone else. If you had been, you might understand the reactions to him a little better.

Thanks Josephine, and I respect your advice. But it did seem a bit odd, and it makes me wonder if they would gloat if they were to find out that I had lost my faith - which gives me all the more reason to hang on to it!

As for the "so-called", as you say only God knows, but their words did seem somewhat unbecoming.

I know plenty of christians (not necessarily orthodox) who are, lets say, even worse than me... but that doesn't mean they are not loved by God, nor that they don't love God.

--------------------
"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Who's gloating? And how do you know who is or isn't praying for him? And who the fuck are you to call me, or anyone else, a "so called" Christian?

What can't speak can't lie my friend, you've already posted all the evidence I need - pal!
Mark, before you say anything else, say the prayer of St. Ephraim of Syria. After you've done that, go read the life of St. Moses the Black. And when you've done that, find a copy of the homilies of Dorotheos of Gaza, and read his homily on judging others.

And if you still think, after you've done all that, that you've seen all the evidence you need, then go back to your prayer corner and start over.

Wise Josephine delivers another lesson to all of us.

Thanks.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Josephine

Orthodox Belle
# 3899

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
As for the "so-called", as you say only God knows, but their words did seem somewhat unbecoming.


They may well have been. I hope nobody will say that I'm a so-called Christian the first time they hear me say something unbecoming.

quote:
I know plenty of christians (not necessarily orthodox) who are, lets say, even worse than me... but that doesn't mean they are not loved by God, nor that they don't love God.
A reminder from the Resident Babushka. If you plan to receive the Eucharist tomorrow, you need to say the prayer before Communion. And in that prayer, you identify yourself as the chief of sinners. You need to understand what that means, so that you can believe that it's true. Because right now, it doesn't sound like you believe it.

You do need to get the sayings of Dorotheos of Gaza. He tells a story of twin girls who are sold as slaves when they were infants. One of the girls was bought by a pious virgin, and raised with kindness, taught to read, taken to all the divine services. The other was bought by a circus, treated harshly, taught to entertain and service men. Now, Dorotheos asked, if it were to happen that both young women fell into some grievous sin, perhaps fornication, would God judge them the same way? No. Absolutely not. Is outrage even to think that he might.

So how do you know that you're the chief of sinners, when you know other people that do worse than you do? Well, you have to imagine they're like the girl bought by the circus. There's stuff you don't know, that has made them vulnerable to this particular sin. So instead of judging them, you need to have compassion on them, and know that God, who knows exactly what they've been through, will have mercy on them.

For yourself, you have received baptism and chrismation and the Holy Eucharist, you have the Scriptures and know how to read them, you have access to the lives of the saints, and to the examples they set before you. You have icons. You have confession. You don't have any reason to excuse yourself for your sins.

Judge yourself with strictness, and everyone else with leniency. Trust that the prayer that the Church gives you to pray is true. It will do your heart good.

--------------------
I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
!!!!!!!!

Translation: "I am a tantruming child, with less understanding of any of the lessons central to my so-called religion than a broccoli of sub-standard intelligence."

And, for fuck's sake, stop putting scare quotes around hell when referring to this board. Nobody is going to mistake you for having understanding of any other realm by that name.

Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Mark, friend, it appears you have your back up, and are reacting in anger to anything anybody says. A lot of people here, not just the worthy and unredoubtable Josephine* (I live in dread fear of the day she finally gets a cane and becomes an armed babushka) have been trying to help you. Calm down a bit. Go take a walk, have a beer, watch a funny show, or whatever you do to calm down a little. Then come back here and join in the respectful conversation.

There are a lot of good people here who are trying to work out their salvation in fear and trembling, not all of them Orthodox. (And a fistful of respectful agnostics, atheists, and members of other, non-Christian religions who enjoy the conversation. And, of course, RooK.)

Speak the truth in love, as St. Paul or somebody like him (although perhaps with more hair and more patience) says. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

I, of course, am the absolute last person here who should be giving this kind of advice, as anyone will tell you if you ask. People get my goat and I tell them off with some regularity. That's because I'm a hotheaded, thin-skinned asshole. But not, generally, about my Church.

______________________
*p.b.u.h.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Just in case you're worried Josephine, I'm sure I speak for many Shipmates when I say I form my picture of Orthodoxy from you and Mousethief, rather than Marky.

My first impressions come from the Greek festival held by the Greek Orthodox church. Josephine and Mousethief are second. Yes Gyros, Soulvakia, and Baklava make a very favorable impression.

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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown

Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged



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