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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Creflo Dollar, Prosperity Preacher
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Squirrel
Shipmate
# 3040
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Posted
Creflo Dollar (I'm not making the name up, folks) is a well-known proponent of the "Prosperity Gospel." Now come charges that he choked his 15-year old daughter.
Dollar may or may not be guilty; I'll leave that to the courts. But I've seen his material (he's big in New York," and it sickens me. The Gospel is NOT about accumulating wealth, or even getting out of debt. Guys like him are vultures who prey upon people of modest means.
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"The moral is to the physical as three is to one."
- Napoleon
"Five to one."
- George S. Patton
Posts: 1014 | From: Gotham City - Brain of the Great Satan | Registered: Jul 2002
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Ministries such as his give new meaning to Jesus' admonition to "sell all that you have and give it the poor." "Sell the only thing that you have [i.e., chutzpah] and stick it to the poor" is more like it.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Hmmmm, that's news . We used to watch quite a bit of his show on Sky TV a while back .
A real showman , and those dapper suits ? There were something else ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Maybe the poor old bloke shouldn't be here in Hell unless he's convicted .
I guess , like his cohort Benny Hinn , he'll disappear into obscurity if credibility is lost due to a scandal .
Needless to say all the Ministry takings will likewise disappear .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
100K for a speaking engagement? He deserves to be in hell whatever the result of this particular incident is.
It doesn't surprise me - I am not saying that it is true, but it fits with the theological perspective.
If people have 100K to spare, try using it to do some fucking good, wankheads, DON'T give it to a bastard like this.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
It is, in my opinion, neither big nor clever to refer to people as wankheads, SC; it can only serve to convince people that you are inarticulate and, furthermore, unable to distinguish your facial area from your crotch.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Let's have a whip-round and pay him 100k to shut up and stop exploiting the desperate.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Do you have any idea how many one penny pieces that is? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
I'll bite: What's a whip-round and how do one penny pieces fit it?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
A whip-around is a quick, informal collection, perhaps passing the hat; for example, when the programmer two cubicles back gets fired or quits without notice, you might have a quick whip-around to buy her a gift. I think maybe PeteC was suggesting that if a bunch of cheapskates each tossed in a few pennies, it would take a while to come up with $100,000.
TSA, you are usually the one with all the great answers, so I can only hope I got this one right.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
)
(The unclosed parenthesis in the OP was about to kill me.)
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
)
(The unclosed parenthesis in the OP was about to kill me.)
Programmer? ![[Biased]](wink.gif) A missing parenthesis can wreak havoc in something like Pascal.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Lord, I detest this penchant for "superstar" ministers and "their" ministries; either the desire to be one or to follow one. Groupies and superstars - yuck!
Coupled with the classic messages associated with the label "prosperity gospel" and that makes it a double-detest.
As to what happened, who knows yet?
My mum observed after she became a grandmother that "Grandchildren are God's reward for not strangling your children". "You weren't ever tempted to strangle me, were you?" I asked. "Well ....." she said, trailing off into a chuckle.
Domestic violence is no laughing matter, of course. Any parent who hasn't been on the receiving end of rude and provocative behaviour from their adolescent children has been very fortunate. The fight for personal self-control can get difficult.
Not excusing here, just saying.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Heretics, meh.
AtB Pyx_e.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
It is, in my opinion, neither big nor clever to refer to people as wankheads, SC; it can only serve to convince people that you are inarticulate and, furthermore, unable to distinguish your facial area from your crotch.
And your opinion counts for rather less than a fleas ejaculate. Now piss off.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Not sure that ' Prosperity Preaching' is an better or worse than the Blessing of slave-ships .
No hang on , *better* I think .
If folks are mug enough to open their purses to this guy, and people like him, there's very little that can be done about it .
As for reprimanding his daughter ? Let's see what the court has got to say about it . Mind you there's every chance someone will slip someone a 100 K and the matter won't even get to court.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Do you have any idea how many one penny pieces that is?
Do you have any idea how many people would give a good deal more never to hear Creflo Dollar (and his dumb name) again?
(First time I heard 'Creflo Dollar' I thought it was an on-line poker game. Now there's prosperity!)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
As to what happened, who knows yet?
Oh Barney, stop being so damn reasonable! You're right, it's all alleged at the moment, but his church's reaction has been alarmingly dismissive, and it's really brought out some vile creatures to defend him online. According to a fair number of them, it's important to give your children a proper moral grounding, therefore beat them. I think they might need to show their working on that one if they want full credit.
Dollar's comments have been curious, as well. He's thoroughly indignant about the whole business ("I will say this emphatically: I should have never been arrested"), and has a very curious idea of how to investigate an alleged assault, apparently being outraged that he wasn't allowed to explain that the alleged injuries were years old, resulting from medical conditions. Maybe he imagined a conversation like this:
Police: "Did you assault your daughter?"
Dollar: "No, absolutely not."
Police: "What about these scratches?"
Dollar: "They were there before I arrived."
Police: "Thank you, that was easy. Sorry to bother you."
We'll wait and see, but there are some aspects to this story that make me very uncomfortable.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Me too, TGG. Just withholding judgment pro tem.
One of the things we (Mrs B and I) did learn, through years of working with the age group his daughters belong to, is that many, both young men and young women, have quite a strong sense of the dramatic re domestic life. We used to call it the EastEnders/Dallas syndrome.
And we also came across a few cases of abusive behaviour by parents. Truth is, in most cases, that came out very reluctantly on their part, after they'd got to a place of trust. Only in one case (at least in our experience) did the abuse come out into the open dramatically. That was a nightmare.
Most adolescents love their parents, even when they say they hate them. Even when they have good reason to despise the way they behave.
These things are rarely straightforward.
[I know - too reasonable for Hell. I tend to do that. Think I'll stay away ...]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Pasco
Shipmate
# 388
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Posted
"Cash required 'ere for living oppulently
Deliver over lots (lots!) and repeat!"
- Creflo D. et al { blurting out over and over again station after TV station, time after time (there is money 'ere) }
Posts: 997 | From: Domiciling 'ere, living locally. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
Doubtless that acronym thing you do is satisfying to you.
If the contempt it fills me with could be bottled and converted into an energy source, it would fuel a thousand ships.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
What is this a rant about?
Is it, "Pastor abuses daughter?" in which case keep it until after the investigation or court case.
Is it, "Pastor preaches prosperity gospel?" Why just settle on one target, there are a lot of them out there, and all equally wrong.
Or is it, "Pastor earns a lot more for preaching than I do?" Unless you signed up to this preaching game in order to become rich I don't see what the argument is.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
What is this a rant about?
Is it, "Pastor abuses daughter?" in which case keep it until after the investigation or court case.
Is it, "Pastor preaches prosperity gospel?" Why just settle on one target, there are a lot of them out there, and all equally wrong.
Or is it, "Pastor earns a lot more for preaching than I do?" Unless you signed up to this preaching game in order to become rich I don't see what the argument is.
It's closer to 'Pastor with a rep. for exploiting the poor and desperate looks like he could fall off the pedestal he has erected for himself.'
That's far from unique, you could possibly go back to Judas Iscariot in the Christian tradition, but I suppose it began with Aimee Semple McPherson and the bandwagon has been rolling since. I suppose there have always been 'pyramid scheme' preachers but they had a harder time getting their message heard.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Pasco
Shipmate
# 388
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
Doubtless that acronym thing you do is satisfying to you.
If the contempt it fills me with could be bottled and converted into an energy source, it would fuel a thousand ships.
Pray, your contempt towards charlatans will fuel at least this illustrious ship that we're on.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 997 | From: Domiciling 'ere, living locally. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
It is, in my opinion, neither big nor clever to refer to people as wankheads, SC; it can only serve to convince people that you are inarticulate and, furthermore, unable to distinguish your facial area from your crotch.
And your opinion counts for rather less than a fleas ejaculate. Now piss off.
You forgot the apostrophe; the word should have been flea's.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
I listened to the 911 tape and I'm not really sure what happened there. The girl doesn't sound upset for having just been attacked by her father. That doesn't settle the issue, just gives me pause in making an advanced judgment on the issue. Both daughters are still living with the Father, which I would have assumed the minor would have been removed or Dad asked to move out until an investigation was completed. It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out. I'm not a fan of the prosperity gospel as I've seen the damage it causes, so if I were to have a prejudice it'd probably be against the good reverend. The recording can be heard here: 911 recording
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
A whip-around is a quick, informal collection...
Thank you. I'm much obliged Silver Faux.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Squirrel
Shipmate
# 3040
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Posted
Here's a pretty good TV news piece on Dollar. Watch him defend his need for a private jet.
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"The moral is to the physical as three is to one."
- Napoleon
"Five to one."
- George S. Patton
Posts: 1014 | From: Gotham City - Brain of the Great Satan | Registered: Jul 2002
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Don't you know he needs that jet! The airlines don't fly his schedule. He tells us that Jesus himself was a rich man. He knows that because Jesus had a treasurer.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
If jesus can be used to justify the murder of fellow human-beings down the ages , then I'm quite sure Mr Dollar can use him to justify the lining his own pocket, (and encouraging other's to line theirs), with a clear conscience .
The clue is in the guy's name methinks .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Squirrel
Shipmate
# 3040
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Posted
The fact that there's a prosperity preacher out there named "Dollar" does not shock me. Rip-off artists have been around for a long time, and some are quite up-front about what they do. What surprises me is the sheer number of people who follow him. Each week about 6,000 New Yorkers go to hear him at Madison Square Garden. (He flies up from Atlanta on his private jet). And we're supposed to be a town full of cynics who know how to spot a hustler!
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"The moral is to the physical as three is to one."
- Napoleon
"Five to one."
- George S. Patton
Posts: 1014 | From: Gotham City - Brain of the Great Satan | Registered: Jul 2002
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Quite right Mr. Squirrel . It doesn't surprise me either . I've seen this character in action a few times on TV and he's a highly accomplished operator.
I'm almost certain that any confident convincing person could himself "Pastor Gimmeurdosh" and they would gain a following .
The urge to follow someone who we believe possesses some hidden knowledge, or feel-good gene is still a little understood phenomenon.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Quite right Mr. Squirrel . It doesn't surprise me either . I've seen this character in action a few times on TV and he's a highly accomplished operator.
Highly accomplished? I have watched and listed but I cannot understand him.
quote:
I'm almost certain that any confident convincing person could himself "Pastor Gimmeurdosh" and they would gain a following .
Good old self-deception. Once you've fooled yourself, it's so much easier to fool others.
quote:
The urge to follow someone who we believe possesses some hidden knowledge, or feel-good gene is still a little understood phenomenon.
Yes, we'll believe what we want to believe or a silver tongue. While I recognised the words he uses as I being of the English language, he keeps this 'hidden knowledge' mighty well hidden, from me at least. Maybe my BS detectors trip into HD mode when the TV set is on.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
While I recognised the words he uses as I being of the English language, he keeps this 'hidden knowledge' mighty well hidden, from me at least. Maybe my BS detectors trip into HD mode when the TV set is on.
Yep, I get your drift . 'Hidden knowledge' does sound a bit flattering .
I guess the only knowledge that's hidden as far as any powerful orator is concerned goes something like , <'Here's me talking total bollocks , and these people are mesmerised by it '>.
Not sure we ought to dismiss this kind of stuff too lightly because it's sure to cross the pond , that's if it hasn't already done so.
[poor coding skills? send just £100 to learn the secret of prosperous code they don't want you to know!]
[ 18. June 2012, 09:11: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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