Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hallmarks of an intellectual
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
According to ClassicFM this morning, I am an intellectual because I can listen to the first phrase of Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man without expecting the second phrase to start "jungajungajunga".** What, for you, are the hallmarks of an intellectual?
** Listen to Emerson, Lake and Palmer's version.
-------------------- "I say - are you a matelot?" "Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here" From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
The classic definition is being able to be alone in a room with a tea-cosy without putting it on your head.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by St. Gwladys: According to ClassicFM this morning, I am an intellectual because I can listen to the first phrase of Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man without expecting the second phrase to start "jungajungajunga".** What, for you, are the hallmarks of an intellectual?
** Listen to Emerson, Lake and Palmer's version.
Well, erm, like I always say, erm, doh, like, maybe I'm not a good err you know, judgy thingy.
-------------------- "controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Albertus: The classic definition is being able to be alone in a room with a tea-cosy without putting it on your head.
Oh, Damn! but no one saw, erm, but, oh Damn!
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Chapelhead: quote: Originally posted by St. Gwladys: What, for you, are the hallmarks of an intellectual?
Actually buying Playboy for the articles?
Seriously? Does anyone really do that?
Being intellectual means that you know the UEFA Champions League theme tune is based on Handel's Zadok the Priest. [ 18. October 2012, 19:44: Message edited by: Starbug ]
-------------------- “Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
This may not apply to younger generations, but it has been said that an intellectual is someone who can listen to the William Tell Overture without thinking of the Lone Ranger.
-------------------- When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. - C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
To the man-in-the-street, who, I'm sorry to say Is a keen observer of life The word `Intellectual' suggests straight away A man who's untrue to his wife
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure: This may not apply to younger generations, but it has been said that an intellectual is someone who can listen to the William Tell Overture without thinking of the Lone Ranger.
Beat me to it. I heard that one the last time I heard William Tell on the radio, which was several years ago. They decided to put it on at 5:30 in the afternoon, virtually guaranteeing that a good portion of their audience (myself included) were going to be hearing it while sitting in slow moving traffic. I thought it was cruel.
I enjoy Wagner. I listen to his operas on my iPod while skiing occasionally. But damned if I am not going to reprise the Loony Toons versions when those themes come up. quote: Originally posted by Chapelhead: Actually buying Playboy for the articles?
What if I happen to enjoy interspersing my high quality journalism and short fiction with pictures of attractive naked women? Does that still count? Why is it always assumed that people buy it for one or the other?
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Starbug:
Being intellectual means that you know the UEFA Champions League theme tune is based on Handel's Zadok the Priest.
How fabulous, I've not heard the UEFA theme before and you've made my evening My eldest son is called Zadok and I must play it to him.
-------------------- 'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams Dog Activity Monitor My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Can we come up with any definitions that don't say "intellectual = classical music fan"?
Of course, by sheer logic it means that all those people who created the alternative, 'non-intellectual' versions of pieces were themselves intellectuals. Otherwise they wouldn't have known the pieces that they pilfered. [ 19. October 2012, 02:02: Message edited by: orfeo ]
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Someone who mishears 'I like Duran Duran' as 'I like Jerome K. Jerome', only to discover his mistake after asking the girl on a date...
Someone who REALLY doesn't know who Simon Cowell is, but can tell you all about the habits of the New Caledonian crow or the history of snuffboxes...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
An intellectual is someone who debates in Purgatory in preference to Hell.
-------------------- "He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jane R: Someone who mishears 'I like Duran Duran' as 'I like Jerome K. Jerome', only to discover his mistake after asking the girl on a date...
Someone who REALLY doesn't know who Simon Cowell is, but can tell you all about the habits of the New Caledonian crow or the history of snuffboxes...
I know who he is, but I've never watched any programme with him in.
Nor do I know much about snuffboxes, but I can talk in a reasonably informed manner about the evolution of French from Latin and shared and unique Latin and English borrowings into Welsh and Cornish, if that helps.
If it does, how do I make the final cut and join the 'liberal intellectual elite' which I understand from the Daily Heil actually runs the country? [ 19. October 2012, 09:22: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Snuffboxes and crows are merely examples of the type of subject an intellectual is likely to be expert in, Karl. The history of Celtic and Romance languages certainly counts.
I only found out who Simon Cowell was after his autobiography (entitled Do you know who I am?) came out and I was obliged to confess in public that I didn't know.
Do you mean to say you BELIEVE what you read in the Daily Heil? The country is run by bankers and City fatcats, as any fule kno. [ 19. October 2012, 09:28: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
An intellectual is someone who thinks "being an intellectual" is a good thing in and of itself.
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote: An intellectual is someone whose mind watches itself. Albert Camus
Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers.
-------------------- a theological scrapbook
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jane R: Snuffboxes and crows are merely examples of the type of subject an intellectual is likely to be expert in, Karl. The history of Celtic and Romance languages certainly counts.
I only found out who Simon Cowell was after his autobiography (entitled Do you know who I am?) came out and I was obliged to confess in public that I didn't know.
Do you mean to say you BELIEVE what you read in the Daily Heil? The country is run by bankers and City fatcats, as any fule kno.
Don't be silly! If the Wail published a story saying that grass was green I'd poke me head out of the window to make sure. Indeed, the fact that they and their fellow travellers keep on whining about the "liberal intellectual elite", along with the "PC Brigade" etc. is pretty good evidence that (a) they don't, as a group, actually exist, and (b) they aren't running bugger all. [ 19. October 2012, 10:20: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
No particular claims to inellectualism here, but a colleague once said to me, "But you must have had a classical education. You understand the use of the semicolon."
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
Can anyone, even someone widely agreed to be an intellectual, validly state "I am an intellectual" without making it sound like a synonym for a rude word rhyming with "banker"?
Or is the status of "intellectual" best conferred by others?
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Adeodatus: No particular claims to inellectualism here, but a colleague once said to me, "But you must have had a classical education. You understand the use of the semicolon."
Funnily enough I did have what might be described as a "classical education" (public school (that's private school to the Colonials), Latin, Greek, far too much rugby for any sane person to take) and do know how to use semicolons. But I don't recall being taught how; I just picked it up from reading and observing how they're used.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Lord Jestocost: Can anyone, even someone widely agreed to be an intellectual, validly state "I am an intellectual" without making it sound like a synonym for a rude word rhyming with "banker"?
Or is the status of "intellectual" best conferred by others?
Probably. And when conferred by some it's an insult. It's a funny old word.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Originally posted by Lord Jestocost: Can anyone, even someone widely agreed to be an intellectual, validly state "I am an intellectual" without making it sound like a synonym for a rude word rhyming with "banker"?
Or is the status of "intellectual" best conferred by others?
Probably. And when conferred by some it's an insult. It's a funny old word.
Yes. In Britain, the status of "intellectual" is usually conferred by an angry mob of conservative politicians and newspaper editors carrying blazing torches and pitchforks.
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
An intellectual is someone who thinks with their brain rather than certain other parts of the body.
-------------------- "My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
"Intellectual" is sometimes used (eg. by me... ahem!) in a pejorative sense, when it is meant as opposed to wisdom or ethics. It is like saying they have brains by the cartload, but no wisdom or ethics.
-------------------- "We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Nick Griffin is currently referring to the "liberal elite" with regard to his honestly not an incitement to violence tweets yesterday. I'm surprised he didn't insert "intellectual" into that, as it's certainly part of his "stupid, sorry, I mean ordinary, people who hate teh gays and the furriners are right and the stupid lefty intellectuals are stupid and wrong" thrust.
[tangent class="HadToSayIt"]What a turd of a man[/tangent]
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: "Intellectual" is sometimes used (eg. by me... ahem!) in a pejorative sense, when it is meant as opposed to wisdom or ethics. It is like saying they have brains by the cartload, but no wisdom or ethics.
Well don't. It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing, which is usually something thought by thick people to make themselves feel better about being thick - q.v. Sun readers.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: "Intellectual" is sometimes used (eg. by me... ahem!) in a pejorative sense
I pretty much always imagine it as pejorative. To me it has strong overtones of snobbery.
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing
Ah, but there's a world of difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing
Ah, but there's a world of difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
I agree. Just as an example, Karl uses the semi-colon on what I consider an intelligent basis, but as he didn't use an entirely abstract thought process to arrive at when it should be used, it isn't an intellectual basis.
-------------------- "He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing
Ah, but there's a world of difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
Only because of the tendency for some people to use "intellectual" in a particular way.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
quote: No particular claims to intellectualism here, but a colleague once said to me, "But you must have had a classical education. You understand the use of the semicolon."
Huh? The semicolon was invented in the early days of printing. I think. (consults Eats, Shoots and Leaves) Yup - 1494.
What's that got to do with the Ancient Greeks and Romans?
Perhaps an intellectual is one who places undue emphasis on the value of learning Latin and Classical Greek... [ 19. October 2012, 11:38: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Sioni Sais: quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing
Ah, but there's a world of difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
I agree. Just as an example, Karl uses the semi-colon on what I consider an intelligent basis, but as he didn't use an entirely abstract thought process to arrive at when it should be used, it isn't an intellectual basis.
Erm - actually I do. I've abstracted a set of rules based on observation of the use of the thing and consciously apply them when I write, at least in checking my punctuation before committing. Definitely an intellectual process, for me.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Originally posted by Sioni Sais: Just as an example, Karl uses the semi-colon on what I consider an intelligent basis, but as he didn't use an entirely abstract thought process to arrive at when it should be used, it isn't an intellectual basis.
Erm - actually I do. I've abstracted a set of rules based on observation of the use of the thing and consciously apply them when I write, at least in checking my punctuation before committing. Definitely an intellectual process, for me.
Isn't that experiential rather than intellectual? We're splitting hairs, but hair-splitting is at the core of intellectualism.
-------------------- "He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Sioni Sais: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Originally posted by Sioni Sais: Just as an example, Karl uses the semi-colon on what I consider an intelligent basis, but as he didn't use an entirely abstract thought process to arrive at when it should be used, it isn't an intellectual basis.
Erm - actually I do. I've abstracted a set of rules based on observation of the use of the thing and consciously apply them when I write, at least in checking my punctuation before committing. Definitely an intellectual process, for me.
Isn't that experiential rather than intellectual? We're splitting hairs, but hair-splitting is at the core of intellectualism.
Indeed. And to split it further - I'd say it was an intellectual process predicated on experientially derived criteria for semi-colon use.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
An intellectual is someone who uses the word celli for more than one cello.
Someone who can accurately date Stradivarius violins and celli by looking at differences in construction. Someone who can similarly date Fender Stratocasters is not.
-------------------- Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: Nick Griffin <snip> [tangent class="HadToSayIt"]What a turd of a man[/tangent]
[tangent class="continuation"]Strange that you should say that[/tangent]
-------------------- Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by balaam: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: Nick Griffin <snip> [tangent class="HadToSayIt"]What a turd of a man[/tangent]
[tangent class="continuation"]Strange that you should say that[/tangent]
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by balaam: An intellectual is someone who uses the word celli for more than one cello.
Someone who can accurately date Stradivarius violins and celli by looking at differences in construction.
No, that is just a hobbyist.
An Intellectual will have books. Loads of books. In every room. And will have read them all, and many of them several times.
-------------------- Still missing the gator
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
It was once suggested to me by a colleague from the north east of England that I was being rather intellectual by using the word 'endeavour' rather than the perfectly adequate 'try'.
I must endeavour not to do that again...
-------------------- You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Weeder: quote: Originally posted by balaam: An intellectual is someone who uses the word celli for more than one cello.
Someone who can accurately date Stradivarius violins and celli by looking at differences in construction.
No, that is just a hobbyist.
An Intellectual will have books. Loads of books. In every room. And will have read them all, and many of them several times.
Hmm - use of 'celli in conversation starts looking like a bid for inclusion in Pseud's Corner.
Similarly, conspicuous use of "endeavour" over "try", I'm afraid.
An intellectual might go to the loo, the lavatory or the bog. It's what he reads in there that is significant.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing
Ah, but there's a world of difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
Only because of the tendency for some people to use "intellectual" in a particular way.
If a large number of people use a word in a certain way, then that is one of its meanings.
Moo
-------------------- Kerygmania host --------------------- See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: quote: Originally posted by Mark Betts: "Intellectual" is sometimes used (eg. by me... ahem!) in a pejorative sense
I pretty much always imagine it as pejorative. To me it has strong overtones of snobbery.
It may have gained strong overtones of snobbery but only because the people who use it are usually exhibiting strong overtones of inverted snobbery.
-------------------- "We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Moo: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: quote: Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: It makes you sound like you think intelligence is a bad thing
Ah, but there's a world of difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
Only because of the tendency for some people to use "intellectual" in a particular way.
If a large number of people use a word in a certain way, then that is one of its meanings.
Moo
I am aware of this. The process by which words gain new meanings can, nevertheless, be highly illuminating.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by balaam: An intellectual is someone who uses the word celli for more than one cello.
Nah.
An intellectual is someone who starts debating whether or not the word celli is accurate.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by balaam: Someone who can accurately date Stradivarius violins and celli by looking at differences in construction. Someone who can similarly date Fender Stratocasters is not.
No, that is a snob. An intellectual is a person who has read many books and attended lectures on how to accurately date a Stradivarius, but has not actually done it.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote: "But you must have had a classical education. You understand the use of the semicolon."
Psstt....wonna no 'aah t'look int'lechul?
-------------------- "We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard (so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jane R: quote: No particular claims to intellectualism here, but a colleague once said to me, "But you must have had a classical education. You understand the use of the semicolon."
Huh? The semicolon was invented in the early days of printing. I think. (consults Eats, Shoots and Leaves) Yup - 1494.
What's that got to do with the Ancient Greeks and Romans?
If I were an intellectual, I could probably theorise for hours about how punctuation marks such as semicolons and colons are useful in translating the long, many-claused sentences of silver Latin into good idiomatic English.
But I'm not, so I'll just shrug and say, "I dunno."
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Weeder: An Intellectual will have books. Loads of books. In every room.
See, I thought the guy down the street with all of the books stacked everywhere was just a compulsive hoarder. Turns out he's an intellectual. These are the things you learn on the Ship. (I have lots of books on my shelf, but when I moved two months ago, I took several bags of books to the used book store, so that someone else could benefit from the wisdom inside for a tenth of the price. Didn't even ask for credit in exchange. Felt fantastic, and I don't feel any less intelligent than I used to.)
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
Ken Barlow in Coronation Street is said to he an intellectual. If so, that means intellectuals have floppy hair, bad handwriting and a chronic inability to keep in in their trousers.
-------------------- “Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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