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Source: (consider it) Thread: Breastfeeding in University Classrooms
saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
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This story about a professor at American University who brought her sick baby to class and breastfed her during class is making the rounds.

I have a lot of sympathy for the mother, but I do think she crossed a line here. Like everyone else I went to college with, I had to sit through the occasional lecture that included the professor's child, although in those cases the child was old enough that they made it through the entire class only disrupting it once or twice (knocking all their crayons over and needing help to pick them up, for example). While I tend to sit next to parents (especially single parents) so they can hand their kid off to me if need be in weddings and at church, I found it incredibly distracting in class; I couldn't concentrate on what the professor was saying if there was a kid I could be making faces at or playing peek-a-boo with.

quote:
In the Sept. 5 essay, Pine wrote that she was “shocked and annoyed that this would be considered newsworthy.” She lamented that her workplace had suddenly become “a hostile environment.” She also upbraided journalists at the Eagle student newspaper — which, as of Tuesday afternoon, had not published any article on the matter — and wrote that the tone of a reporter’s questions implied an “anti-woman” view.
I don't think the professor is helping her case at all by describing people objecting as creating "a hostile environment" or that the reporter's questions implied an "anti-woman" view.

What say shipmates?

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RuthW

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# 13

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I agree with you. University professors do not need to bring their sick children to work with them; they have paid leave, and she should have just cancelled class and considered herself fortunate to have that option.
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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I agree with you. University professors do not need to bring their sick children to work with them; they have paid leave, and she should have just cancelled class and considered herself fortunate to have that option.

We don't know she had paid sick leave; she could have been an adjunct. This story doesn't say.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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She's an assistant professor -- so she's on the tenure track and gets paid leave.

Read her article here.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I agree with you. University professors do not need to bring their sick children to work with them; they have paid leave, and she should have just cancelled class and considered herself fortunate to have that option.

As an adjunct, I can tell you, canceling class is not as easy as you suggest. We can do it-- our pay is the same either way, there is no penalty to us as faculty. But generally we have a well-planned out curricula, intended to prepare students and teach the material they will be responsible for learning. If we are absent it usually is not possible to find someone to fill in, especially at the last minute. While students may rejoice at a sudden free day, as faculty we regret that they will be missing vital material and interrupting the flow of the course. Since, again, generally there is no financial hit for canceling class, I would imagine the professor here had exactly that motive in mind-- how to best prepare her students. Breastfeeding may be distracting, but the students will have a better chance at learning the material even in that distracting environment than they will with no class at all.

The prof. may have hurt her case by some of her strong words, but in general, I agree with her. As a mom, I found the barriers to breastfeeding daunting. And yes, for the most part, I think those barriers, when unnecessary, constitute a "hostile work environment". By breastfeeding in the classroom she sent a powerful, and I believe positive, message that breastfeeding children is a normal, natural part of life. And, sadly, the ruckus sent an equally powerful and sadly true message re: how our society still views the practice.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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I was an assistant professor at a Cal State University, and I never had any trouble cancelling class when necessary. It's disruptive, yes, but sometimes you have to do it.
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Beeswax Altar
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I don't see what the problem is. No reason the professor couldn't lecture and feed her baby at the same time. On the other hand, Pine needs to get a grip if she thinks her breastfeeding being covered by student journalists constitutes a hostile work environment.

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Antisocial Alto
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According to the article she does have a TA for the course. Depending on AU's policies, maybe she could have stayed home with the baby and let the TA teach that session, instead of canceling class outright.

A+++ breastfeeding; F- taking a sick baby into a classroom full of germy students and letting it play on a dirty floor.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I was an assistant professor at a Cal State University, and I never had any trouble cancelling class when necessary. It's disruptive, yes, but sometimes you have to do it.

Sure, but that is your call as a prof. She made the call not to do so, in part because there really was no need to cancel. Again, precisely because there is not a financial hit for canceling class, I think it is fair to assume she decided to go ahead w/ class because she believed it would be most advantageous to her students.

Her handling of the (I'm guessing very young) reporter was a bit rough, I think, but overall, I agree with her point.

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tclune
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It's good to see that an Anthro prof doesn't pass up any opportunity to be a victim. And double props for casting the students as the oppressors.

--Tom Clune

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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cliffdweller, I was disputing your claim that cancelling class isn't easy, when in fact it is. Whether there was a need to cancel is a matter for discussion. I have a friend who is a tenured professor at a community college, and a single parent as well, and when her daughter was an infant and got sick, she cancelled class and stayed home with her.

I think the real problem is that parents of young children have few childcare options, especially when their kids are sick. Daycares won't take kids who are sick, so parents get stuck using their sick days when they aren't sick -- and then going to work when they catch whatever their kids had.

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mdijon
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I can't help feeling that the fact that this was a feminist anthropology class is relevant. It seems rather ironic to want to study feminist anthropology but to get offended over public breast-feeding, as some of the students seem to have.

(Not that I'd want to extend that principle to criminology or nuclear physics)

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Breastfeeding may be distracting, but the students will have a better chance at learning the material even in that distracting environment than they will with no class at all.

Except the most significant part of the story to me is the fact that the child was sick. Why would she think the students would learn more in that distracting environment than they would learn if they wound up having to stay home from all their classes because they became sick?

quote:
And, sadly, the ruckus sent an equally powerful and sadly true message re: how our society still views the practice.
I'm not persuaded that the ruckus was about breastfeeding and how society still views the practice. I mean, we live with the vagina monologues on campus at least once a year in spite of my strenuous objections. When most people see a woman breastfeeding in public they avert their eyes to avoid making her uncomfortable. The professor created a situation in which her students found it very difficult to do that because most students are taught that they are supposed to be watching and listening to the professor and doing otherwise is a sign of disrespect.

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Alogon
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
By breastfeeding in the classroom she sent a powerful, and I believe positive, message that breastfeeding children is a normal, natural part of life.

Who doubts that? The only problem I see is that she is obviously multitasking in front of a class that deserves a teacher's undivided attention. If she can get away with it, can others? According to the way some people are arguing, there is no reason this shouldn't become routine. I'm unclear what the baby's illness has to do with it. Who breast feeds the baby when he or she is not sick?

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Albertus
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You need proper recognised paid parental responsibilities leave to cover things like this.
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Louise
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We used to have eccentric philosophy lecturers who brought their entertaining dogs to class (one prone to farting, the other to playing with its now squeakless squeaky toy and coming up to sit on our laps to our great enjoyment). Provided the baby's not squawling its head off, what's the problem?

I'm with the guy who said “We’re college students, things go on all the time. Whatever. We’ll survive.”

I think there's no harm in the odd bit of human non-corporate behaviour.

[ 12. September 2012, 19:55: Message edited by: Louise ]

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Soror Magna
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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... I mean, we live with the vagina monologues on campus at least once a year in spite of my strenuous objections. ...

Why do you feel the need to object strenuously?

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North East Quine

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Originally posted by saysay:

quote:
When most people see a woman breastfeeding in public they avert their eyes to avoid making her uncomfortable.
Why would anyone assume that a woman would be "uncomfortable" if people treated her normally while breastfeeding?

I think there's an issue here about taking a sick child to work, rather than tucking it up in its bed, but I don't see an issue with breastfeeding.

Slight tangent - a Muslim visitor to our house, in full hijab, was about to breast feed her baby and I asked if she'd like to do it in another room. She said no, she'd no problem with breast feeding in mixed company.

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Doublethink.
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I think there is a tension in that, people prefer you not to stare at their breasts whilst they are talking - but babies tend to capture one's attention. Which leaves you worrying that the person you are talking to, who is breast feeding, is going to think you are leching at them - and once you are trying deliberately not to look in a particular direction you get caught in a loop of self-fulfilling self-conciousness.

This happens less with people you know well, or are family members.

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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I'm inclined to agree with Louise, though mdijon also makes a good point. Surely this is no big deal? By all accounts a one-off, driven by circumstance. But having read Prof. Pine's thoughts on the matter, I feel there's an element of her painting herself into a previously non-existent corner.

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Magic Wand
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I can't but help to think that Dr Pine was being fairly naive in thinking that this might not have been of interest to the wider student body, and her characterization of the newspaper article as harassment is too much by far. The Counterpunch post reads as more than a little hysterical, and cost her any sympathy that I would have had for her otherwise.
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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
She's an assistant professor -- so she's on the tenure track and gets paid leave.

Read her article here.

I stand corrected.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
I can't help feeling that the fact that this was a feminist anthropology class is relevant. It seems rather ironic to want to study feminist anthropology but to get offended over public breast-feeding, as some of the students seem to have.

(Not that I'd want to extend that principle to criminology or nuclear physics)

And that a professor teaching said class would be surprised that someone might be uncomfortable with it.
I've no problem with her breastfeeding in class, but do with bringing a sick child. And her whinging. Perfect, real world teaching opportunity and she handled it poorly.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... I mean, we live with the vagina monologues on campus at least once a year in spite of my strenuous objections. ...

Why do you feel the need to object strenuously?
Because the advertising many people do for the Vagina Monologues is incredibly explicit and not only sexually explicit but explicit in the link between sex and violence. Even I don't want to see that when I'm walking across campus first thing in the morning, and it makes it impossible for people to bring their young child to or through campus without having some uncomfortable conversations about sex and sexual violence that both parent and child may not be prepared for. It seems to be getting better, but for a while you weren't allowed to criticize anything about the Vagina Monologues (including the advertising) without also defending yourself against accusations of misogyny.

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HelsBells
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I guess it depends on how the tutor conducted herself in class, as to whether or not it's an issue.
I'm a strong believer in women being able to breastfeed wherever and whenever they need to - and we have to remember that it's about the needs of the baby here. I've breastfed in parks, shopping centres, pubs, churches, trains and car parks and believe I have the right to meet my child's needs where I happen to be at the time.
Still, I think that the breastfeeding woman has to recognise that others may be a bit uncomfortable and to do what she can to be discreet (loose fitting top with baby snuggling down & actually hiding everything), and in this circumstance, to maybe chat to her class in advance about what she was going to do and why.
Also, presumably the alternative was to cancel the class, as you can't give the baby to anyone else to feed when you're breastfeeding. Perhaps she may have discussed this with her students too.
What she then said in the argument with the paper afterwards is, I feel a separate issue and she can reflect on how she comported herself at her leisure.

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Soror Magna
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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... it makes it impossible for people to bring their young child to or through campus without having some uncomfortable conversations about sex and sexual violence that both parent and child may not be prepared for. ...

What kind of campus is this, and why would parents bring children to it? After all, you started this thread to criticise someone for bringing a child on campus ... Do you seriously believe university campuses should be sanitized for children?
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HCH
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It's easy enough to see both sides of this matter.

I'm a teacher, and I have occasionally had students bring a child to class. I can't remember it being a problem.

It's easy enough to say this woman could have canceled her class, but it is true that teachers often have schedules and plans for each class meeting. Canceling a class may be an uncomfortable option for her. She may have a teaching assistant, but a TA is by no means necessarily able to step in and teach the class instead.

One issue here is that some people feel uncomfortable with public breastfeeding, and some who have no such objection might nonetheless find it distracting. Perhaps a good answer to that is "Get over it".

The students in the class can reasonably expect the teacher's attention during the class to be on her job and not on her child. They have presumably not paid their tuition for the privilege of observing her skill at child care. Suppose she had brought the child to class and fed the child applesauce with a spoon; would that not face the same objection?

I hope her sick child is well soon.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Suppose she had brought the child to class and fed the child applesauce with a spoon; would that not face the same objection?

It seems so unlikely as to beggar the imagination. Public breastfeeding is such a contentious issue in the United States right now.

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Evangeline
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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
I can't help feeling that the fact that this was a feminist anthropology class is relevant. It seems rather ironic to want to study feminist anthropology but to get offended over public breast-feeding, as some of the students seem to have.

(Not that I'd want to extend that principle to criminology or nuclear physics)

I believe that breastfeeding in public is a basic right. What I object to here is that she was doing childcare-including breastfeeding whilst being paid to do her job so a student bringing in a bub to breastfeed I fully support but not the teacher during teaching/lecturing time.
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Garasu
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Originally posted by Evangeline:
quote:
a student bringing in a bub to breastfeed I fully support but not the teacher during teaching/lecturing time.
Is there any reason to believe that she was unable to discharge her duties as an employee?

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Twilight

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What kind of campus is this, and why would parents bring children to it?

To babysit them, it would seem.
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I'm a little shocked. College teachers bringing their kids to work? When did this happen? Is there a cut off age? Can toddlers bring their finger paints and men bring their sons and help them set up train sets while lecturing? How about bringing your elderly parents with dementia?

Everyone would save a lot of money if they didn't have to pay babysitters or caregivers, but unless it's understood that all the employees get to do this, and that the job is easy enough to allow for the distractions, then it seems like this woman is expecting special privileges.

I'm all for breast feeding, I did it, but I never expected to do it at work. It's not what I was being paid for. If the minimum wage worker at Walmart can find, and pay for, childcare so can this woman.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What kind of campus is this, and why would parents bring children to it?

I've had the same fight at both public and private universities. Many college campuses in the US are not organized such that there's a clear demarcation of "on campus" and "off campus" and people not affiliated with the university do in fact sometime have to pass through areas of campus to get from their house to the place they need to go. Also, the universities I've been affiliated with have frequently run cultural events that are appropriate for children which are free and open to the public. Not to mention that they have fields and other open spaces where people (including the children of faculty, staff, and students) can organize games. Also, while the public library system has gotten a lot better and a lot of information is available online, for serious research a lot of people do in fact need to use the university library. And as I said in my OP, professors who were in a bind did sometimes bring their children to class or a meeting with them. There are lots of reasons for children to be on campus.

quote:
After all, you started this thread to criticise someone for bringing a child on campus ...
I most certainly did not start this thread to criticize someone for bringing a child on campus.

quote:
Do you seriously believe university campuses should be sanitized for children?
Sanitized for children, as in, anything that happens anywhere on them is appropriate for a child of any age? No, I don't believe that at all. Sanitized such that people (including children) walking through them do not happen upon what I once would have described as violent pornographic images? Yes.

Do you seriously believe that women who have children should simply stay home with them until the children are old enough to handle anything anyone might throw at them?

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"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
If the minimum wage worker at Walmart can find, and pay for, childcare so can this woman.

You missed the part where the daycare wouldn't take her kid because it was sick.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
cliffdweller, I was disputing your claim that cancelling class isn't easy, when in fact it is. Whether there was a need to cancel is a matter for discussion. I have a friend who is a tenured professor at a community college, and a single parent as well, and when her daughter was an infant and got sick, she cancelled class and stayed home with her.

Yes, I was pointing out that it's "hard" in a different way. I really, really hate to cancel class, for any reason, because I already feel pressed to present all the material in enough depth to truly be useful, while allowing some breathing room for discussion/ interaction. Losing a day creates a problem. So, as I pointed out, it's *hard* not because we're not allowed sick days (we are) or because it impacts us financially (it doesn't). It's hard because we care about our students and giving them the best possible education.


quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

I think the real problem is that parents of young children have few childcare options, especially when their kids are sick. Daycares won't take kids who are sick, so parents get stuck using their sick days when they aren't sick -- and then going to work when they catch whatever their kids had.

Totally agree-- although that doesn't appear to be the issue here. (And the prof. herself acknowledges that and the fact that she is privileged to be able to have a choice).

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RuthW

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... it makes it impossible for people to bring their young child to or through campus without having some uncomfortable conversations about sex and sexual violence that both parent and child may not be prepared for. ...

What kind of campus is this, and why would parents bring children to it? After all, you started this thread to criticise someone for bringing a child on campus ... Do you seriously believe university campuses should be sanitized for children?
Leaving aside the question of whether university campuses should be sanitized for children, universities have on-site daycare facilities for faculty, staff and students, or they do if the people running them have half a clue. One university I worked at also had a high school on its campus.

ETA: Also, to be fair, saysay's objection was to the professor bringing her sick child to work.

[ 12. September 2012, 22:00: Message edited by: RuthW ]

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
I can't help feeling that the fact that this was a feminist anthropology class is relevant. It seems rather ironic to want to study feminist anthropology but to get offended over public breast-feeding, as some of the students seem to have.

(Not that I'd want to extend that principle to criminology or nuclear physics)

I believe that breastfeeding in public is a basic right. What I object to here is that she was doing childcare-including breastfeeding whilst being paid to do her job so a student bringing in a bub to breastfeed I fully support but not the teacher during teaching/lecturing time.
But again, had she chosen the easier option of canceling class and just staying home with her child, she still would have been paid, so it's not like she's ripping off the university. Sick leave is part of her compensation package. She didn't bring her child to class every day-- she didn't even bring her to the very next class period, but rather paid for very expensive sick-baby care. She took an unusual step in a last minute crisis, presumably because she believed it was the "least bad" option in a less than ideal situation.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
I'm inclined to agree with Louise, though mdijon also makes a good point. Surely this is no big deal? By all accounts a one-off, driven by circumstance. But having read Prof. Pine's thoughts on the matter, I feel there's an element of her painting herself into a previously non-existent corner.

I would agree it does seem she heightened the issue with a somewhat exaggerated response. Perhaps an occupational hazard for a "feminist anthropology" prof.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What kind of campus is this, and why would parents bring children to it?

To babysit them, it would seem.
-----------

I'm a little shocked. College teachers bringing their kids to work? When did this happen? Is there a cut off age? Can toddlers bring their finger paints and men bring their sons and help them set up train sets while lecturing.

I don't know when exactly. It existed back in the mid 90s, but it was the kind of thing that was acceptable only once in a while and only if your child was old enough/capable of playing quietly by themselves or with each other for the space of the lecture.

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
If the minimum wage worker at Walmart can find, and pay for, childcare so can this woman.

You missed the part where the daycare wouldn't take her kid because it was sick.
And you apparently missed the part when you learned that 'daycare' and 'childcare' are not necessarily the same thing. Children are going to get sick and parents need to work out some system for dealing with that. Personally I can't figure out why she didn't have a single friend on the faculty or staff (or hell, even a student) willing to watch her child while she gave her lecture.

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cliffdweller
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sorry for the multiple posts-- trying to get caught up on the discussion:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

I've no problem with her breastfeeding in class, but do with bringing a sick child.

I admit I do have concerns about the germs there-- especially when I hear of students having to point out "baby has a paper clip in her mouth"... But these are the sorts of calls parents have to make all the time, and we all make them uneasily, so I'm not ready to second guess her w/o at least knowing the exact nature of the illness.

Same with exposing the students to baby's illness. It's a concern, but don't really have enough to go on. And really, being in a college environment means constantly being exposed to all sorts of nasty germ warfare. During a particularly nasty H1N1 epidemic, our univ. set up a separate dorm to house quarantined students. My students seemed to expect I'd find it a badge of honor when they tried to bypass the quarantine and show up in class anyway. Which is a point for keeping baby home for her own good though-- so again, difficult judgment call.


quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And her whinging. Perfect, real world teaching opportunity and she handled it poorly.

I gotta agree with you completely there.

[ 12. September 2012, 22:23: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

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Soror Magna
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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... Do you seriously believe that women who have children should simply stay home with them until the children are old enough to handle anything anyone might throw at them?

No, and the assumption that women are the only people responsible for or accompanied by young children is quite telling.

And in an era when many children are spend long hours watching sexy violent TV, playing sexy violent video games, and soaking up sexy violent advertising, is there any point in objecting to posters for a play that is put on once a year?

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:

I think there's an issue here about taking a sick child to work, rather than tucking it up in its bed, but I don't see an issue with breastfeeding.

I agree. I don't think people should assume they can bring their children to work with them, and certainly not teachers. Pupils should be entitled to expect their teacher's undivided attention.

The two things that are odd are:-

a. Why is the issue suckling the baby rather than taking him or her to work in the first place? Is there some cross-cultural issue I'm not picking up?

b. Why the fuss about whether a disgruntled student was out of turn and infringing the teacher's rights for criticising her? If the teacher has got a sound case, she's entitled to say 'you may think that but I disagree with you and I'll carry on bringing my baby in until my Head of Department says I mustn't'.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I agree. I don't think people should assume they can bring their children to work with them, and certainly not teachers. Pupils should be entitled to expect their teacher's undivided attention.

But again, she doesn't regularly bring her baby. Again, she didn't even bring her still-sick baby the next class period. So the choice in this particular situation was not "teacher's divided attention" v. "teacher's undivided attention". The choice was "teacher's divided attention" v. "no attention/instruction at all". Again, arguably she made the "least bad" choice for her students in a less-than-ideal circumstance.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
And you apparently missed the part when you learned that 'daycare' and 'childcare' are not necessarily the same thing.

I'd say for millions of workers they most assuredly are.

quote:
Children are going to get sick and parents need to work out some system for dealing with that. Personally I can't figure out why she didn't have a single friend on the faculty or staff (or hell, even a student) willing to watch her child while she gave her lecture.
Gee, pity she didn't ask you for advice, isn't it?

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
No, and the assumption that women are the only people responsible for or accompanied by young children is quite telling.

And, pray tell, just what does it tell you?

quote:
And in an era when many children are spend long hours watching sexy violent TV, playing sexy violent video games, and soaking up sexy violent advertising, is there any point in objecting to posters for a play that is put on once a year?
Yes. Many children are not the children who I am primarily responsible for protecting as they are the children of my family and friends. They do not watch sexy violent TV, play sexy violent video games, and soak up sexy violent advertising. Do I tell others that they shouldn't let their children do those things and they should seriously limit the amount of media exposure their children get? Yes. Do people always listen? No. Can I do anything about it if they don't? No, not really. Just because some people in the world are irresponsible parents does not mean that all parents have to be irresponsible.

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Antisocial Alto
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
So the choice in this particular situation was not "teacher's divided attention" v. "teacher's undivided attention". The choice was "teacher's divided attention" v. "no attention/instruction at all".

No. She has a TA. She said in her Counterpunch article that she didn't feel it was fair to her students to have the TA teach that day, because the TA was new and it was the first session of the course.

Would it have been ideal to have a new TA do the teaching that day? No, of course not. But I think it's at least arguable whether it's more detrimental to students' learning to have an inexperienced teacher for one day, or to have a distractingly cute baby crawling around the classroom for one day. This particular baby was old enough to be awake, mobile, and very likely babbling a bit- it's not the same as bringing a younger baby who might (might!) sleep.

I agree with other posters that the prof's whining is annoying, given that she's better off (in terms of flexibility and a family-supportive environment) than probably three-quarters of working American parents. The fact that she even considered it was feasible to bring the baby is proof of that. Breastfeeding... There are many, many workplaces where, despite all the legal protections, there's not even a decent place to pump.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
And you apparently missed the part when you learned that 'daycare' and 'childcare' are not necessarily the same thing.

I'd say for millions of workers they most assuredly are.
Hey, we set up sick child care in my area. Not sure why other people didn't.

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I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Hey, we set up sick child care in my area. Not sure why other people didn't.

They were afraid it would make them self-righteous and judgmental?

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saysay

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I suppose I do have to consider that as a possibility. I think it's more likely that it would disrupt certain people's attempts to create a completely arbitrary hierarchy that places them at the top of the hierarchy, but I've been known to be wrong before.

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"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Antisocial Alto:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
So the choice in this particular situation was not "teacher's divided attention" v. "teacher's undivided attention". The choice was "teacher's divided attention" v. "no attention/instruction at all".

No. She has a TA. She said in her Counterpunch article that she didn't feel it was fair to her students to have the TA teach that day, because the TA was new and it was the first session of the course.

Would it have been ideal to have a new TA do the teaching that day? No, of course not. But I think it's at least arguable whether it's more detrimental to students' learning to have an inexperienced teacher for one day, or to have a distractingly cute baby crawling around the classroom for one day.

Arguably. It's a judgment call, one she as a professional made.

And, as has already noted, TAs vary greatly in ability and expertise, and in the expectations. Institutions vary in terms of the latitude they give profs in use of TAs. I have had TAs who were graduate students fully capable of taking on a class-- although doing so on very little notice, perhaps not. I have also had TAs who were really bright undergrads hired to help with clerical tasks such as recording grades. They would not be an appropriate choice to lead class.

The point being, there are just so many unknown variables here in what clearly is a case of choosing the "least bad" among several less than ideal options.


quote:
Originally posted by Antisocial Alto:

I agree with other posters that the prof's whining is annoying, given that she's better off (in terms of flexibility and a family-supportive environment) than probably three-quarters of working American parents. The fact that she even considered it was feasible to bring the baby is proof of that. Breastfeeding... There are many, many workplaces where, despite all the legal protections, there's not even a decent place to pump.

Well, to be fair, she herself made that point.

But I would agree that the way she handled the controversy was poor. It was an excellent opportunity to step up to the plate as an educator and, you know, educate. Instead, she came off as rather bullying toward a presumably young, less aware student.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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Sounds like earnest undergraduates, fresh out of highschool. Nothing to see here. Oh sorry, tits. And children, one of the hazards of sex. Good heavens, they are parasites aren't they, needing mummy and all! The prof is right, there isn't really anything newsworthy except the immature responses of those who object. The prof doesn't make it a habit, and life happens.

As for getting a TA to teach for you, that only works if you've got fully prepared powerpoint and lecture notes. Some of us actually come prepared to teach from an outline, don't make slides of every sentence or point and don't read lectures from notes. I'd have never done that any TA.

If you've got a fall term of 16 lectures, and one is cancelled, that's a problem. Less worrisome later in the term but what if the baby is sick twice or 4 times? What then? We've found students pretty resistant to scheduling an extra Saturday morning class to make up, or a weekday at 5 p.m.

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