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Source: (consider it) Thread: Offenderati get over yourselves
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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Over in The Styx there is much offence being taken over RooK's comment here
quote:
Thinking that symbolically eating your dead-jew-on-a-stick cult leader somehow makes it OK to cause suffering is also pretty funny, I admit.
For a faith that uses this prayer,

quote:
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.
Don't you think you should get over yourselves?

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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So what are you saying then? Christians, who truly believe that they take Christ into themselves through the Eucharist, take your dead Jew and go play somewhere else?

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
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No, that RooK was crudely characterising words and beliefs that are mainstream to make a point that Christian beliefs look like cannibalism, so animal welfare on religious grounds looks silly if you read it that way.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992

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Why should I care if you, or RooK, or anyone, is rude and boorish? People will remember you're a fool long after they've forgotten I'm a prig.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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RooK has made his beliefs known on these boards. He is generally tolerant of Christians, but not a believer himself. In hell, it seems, you can expect to have your opinions and beliefs dissected with a machete - it is the nature of the board.

ISTM that people who get too offended over someone parodying their faith should not hang about Hell. RooK actually does this very well, having been around here long enough to know the points to satirise best. He has made similar comments before - Jew on a stick and cannibalism especially - and he has a good point.

I suspect that the problem is this particular poking hits the touchy parts especially well. If it is offensive to you, then maybe you should take a look at what you do believe, and why this is touchy. That is why I love the ship - it keeps me thinking.

And yes, if you are going to come to hell to be offended, get a fucking life.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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Never mind the LoLcat in a bonnet (great image though it is) - I tend to think of RooK as a bit like his almost-namesake Roo in the Winnie-the-Pooh stories: he can be a bit naughty when he gets over-excited.

So, anyway, my first reaction to dead Jew-on-a-stick was that it was offensive, and my second reaction was to think, "Oh, it's just Rook going off on one again" and then there was certain posters' rather hysterical over-reaction in the Styx - which (as so often in these cases) almost made RooK like the injured party.

On reflection. I still think it's offensive, and on two counts:
  • Because a man people care about was tortured to death and, even if RooK thinks their/our reasons for caring about him are delusional, he was using those feelings to give his post impact.
  • Because I think the wording kind-of implies that a dead jew might be considered as less worthy of respect than a non-jew. I'm sure RooK didn't actually mean to imply this - but I still think it's there.
So, although RooK's point was valid, and (to my way of thinking) the cannablism comment was justified, and taking into account that he's entitled to be offensive in Hell and that people don't have the right not to be offended, I still think the amount of offensive given was out of proportion to the value of the point being made and therefore an expression of regret would not be entirely amiss.

But then IMHO those who accused RooK of thinking he can behave badly because he's an Admin should also apologise.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Mostly what QLib said. With the added comment of history and context. RooK's history on the ship does not indicate bigotry, in my recollection. In the context of his history of posting, I cannot see this particular post as a major offense.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

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quote:
Because I think the wording kind-of implies that a dead jew might be considered as less worthy of respect than a non-jew. I'm sure RooK didn't actually mean to imply this - but I still think it's there.

For whatever reason, people who make that particular reductive argument against Christian belief often throw in the "Jew" part. You know, "How can Christians laugh at anyone else, when they worship a Jewish guy who died two thousand years ago?"

I never took the reference to be anti-semitic, though I'm hard pressed to think what purpose it does serve. Maybe throwing in Jesus' Jewishness is meant to emphasize his allegedly being just another guy, with a mundane ethnicity just like everyone else.

PLus, there's a standing joke in comedy along the lines of Jesus being "just a nice Jewish boy", or what have you. Life Of Brian, among nymerous others, plays on this.

On a somewhat loftier note, Nietzsche devotes a large part of The Antichrist to mocking Christian anti-semites, who are too stupid to realize that the religion on behalf of which they attack Jews started out as a Jewish sect.

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
So what are you saying then? Christians, who truly believe that they take Christ into themselves through the Eucharist, take your dead Jew and go play somewhere else?

I can only speak for myself, not others. But the majoritarian (I suspect) perspective aboard the Ship is Christian, of one stripe or another. It isn't the only view on board, though. And to some of us -- especially when Christians start picking apart the inward contradictions in moral issues which may lie outside that system's purview -- that Christian viewpoint seems to ignore some pretty substantial elephants residing in the Christian living room.

Inevitably, Christians can expect to be challenged on the inward contradictions of their own belief system.

It's hardly unusual for moral systems to contain inward contraditions, after all.

It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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If you think RooK's "dead Jew on a stick" is an invitation to think about anything, you're sorely deluded. It's a childish swipe intended to rile up, not a whole lot different from telling someone you fucked their mother.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109

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This phrase doesn't bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is that some are defending the right of an Admin to troll for his own amusement.

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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”

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Chesterbelloc

Tremendous trifler
# 3128

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Mousethief's nailed it.

[But not your mom. Probably]

[ 01. December 2012, 16:58: Message edited by: Chesterbelloc ]

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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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Where on God's green earth has RooK ever used that phrase in an Administration (or even, Hostly) post?

Nowhere .

Are Hosts and Admins not entitled to post as Shipmates even if that might offend someone's world view?

xpost in response to someone burbling about abuse of Administration powers.

[ 01. December 2012, 17:02: Message edited by: PeteC ]

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Even more so than I was before

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.

That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".

--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109

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I understand that some Admins are rather sensitive about a particular word.

I don't give a toss: priestess.

Go on then, ban me, you self-righteous, hypocritical pricks.

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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.

That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
And that is why YMMV applies in all places at all times. Interpretations vary by interpretor.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109

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What's the delay, Sioni Sais? Eh, I just committed the cardinal sin in full knowledge of what it was.

Eh?

Offenderati are you?

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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
What's the delay, Sioni Sais? Eh, I just committed the cardinal sin in full knowledge of what it was.

Eh?

Offenderati are you?

I haven't ignored you at all. I've referred it to the Admins to make sure we make the appropriate response to your attempt at martyrdom.

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I haven't ignored you at all. I've referred it to the Admins to make sure we make the appropriate response to your attempt at martyrdom.

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

Good good. Meantime I hope you appreciate the irony of allowing someone to troll blasphemous nonsense for his own amusement and yet get a bit hung up about a single word. Fuck you.

--------------------
"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”

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Chesterbelloc

Tremendous trifler
# 3128

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.

That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
And that is why YMMV applies in all places at all times. Interpretations vary by interpretor.
Come off it, Sioni - "a challenge to stay and discuss"? You really think that was what RooK could plausibly have meant there? Really?

That reading seems extremely strained to me. By that hermeneutic "I've had yer ma - and she was dirty" could be read as a condolence card.

It's almost as if you're trying to see only the most favourable possibility, no matter how implausible. Now why would you want to do that?

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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."

Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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Sorry, it was me trying to find a way of titling this thread to say "Stop being so offended" and obviously being more offensive than I meant.

I was trying to say that if you look at what was being said in context, RooK was pointing out the absurdities in automatically assuming Christian religious moral laws when there are some things that outsiders think are offensive in the way they perceive the Christian faith. Particularly in the context of animals for which we don't have a very logical worked out code.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I haven't ignored you at all. I've referred it to the Admins to make sure we make the appropriate response to your attempt at martyrdom.

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

Good good. Meantime I hope you appreciate the irony of allowing someone to troll blasphemous nonsense for his own amusement and yet get a bit hung up about a single word. Fuck you.
And that is a clear C6 violation (Respect the Ship's crew), which will also be passed to the Admins for consideration.

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Where on God's green earth has RooK ever used that phrase in an Administration (or even, Hostly) post?

Nowhere .

Completely and utterly irrelevant. The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which are bad because they're ... wait for it ... offensive. Was Curiosity defending these usages? Nay not just defending but name-calling those who were offended by them? If so I apologize to him; if not he's a rank hypocrite.

[ 01. December 2012, 17:36: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
RooK has made his beliefs known on these boards.

As with so-o-o-o many things on the ship that result in hell calls, it's not the beliefs, it's the mode of expression. You've been here long enough to know that.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
I understand that some Admins are rather sensitive about a particular word.

You seem to be forgetting that it was RooK who issued the original warning.

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Where on God's green earth has RooK ever used that phrase in an Administration (or even, Hostly) post?

Nowhere .

Completely and utterly irrelevant. The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which are bad because they're ... wait for it ... offensive. Was Curiosity defending these usages? Nay not just defending but name-calling those who were offended by them? If so I apologize to him; if not he's a rank hypocrite.
If you reckon RooK is not being treated on the level, take it to the Styx. I think there may even be a thread for it.

If on the other hand you want to attack RooK and his posts, do it on the threads but please keep it in Hell.

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

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quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
Fuck you.

Honey, have you considered that this is just a site where people visit, chat and amuse themselves? It is not (or should not) be an important enough part of your life that you get all bent out of joint over something like what RooK posted.

I have gotten too wrapped up in the ship on a couple of occasions and gave myself a much needed vacation. When I got back, it was fun again.

Why don't you try that before the admins give you one instead of yourself. You are an intelligent, caring, person who really deserves better for yourself than what you are doing right now.

Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
RooK has made his beliefs known on these boards.

As with so-o-o-o many things on the ship that result in hell calls, it's not the beliefs, it's the mode of expression. You've been here long enough to know that.
Yes, but his expression epitomises his beliefs as expressed here (I have no idea whether this represents his position outside here, and that is irrelevant anyway). He expresses himself in ridicule of a parodied version of Christianity. this particular expression is simply a summary of his position.

There is nothing in this post that he has not expressed before. Here he identifies his belief in a very concise summary. Yes this expression was particularly focussed, but nothing new.

I still would argue that if this is offensive to your beliefs, then you need to take a long hard look at your beliefs, because this is a clear parody or hyperbole of Christian belief. It is, to me, someone who finds Christianity ridiculous expressing his views in a moderately hell-like way. I have seen enough Christians present their views here rather more offensively.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.

That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
Look, I get that you're deeply offended. That said, I also think offense is a personal choice you're making. What RooK posts is his responsibility; how you react to or interpret that post is yours.

I'm not saying you have no cause for offense; what do I know? That's your business, and yours to explain should you so choose. What I AM saying is that there are alternative reactions available to you. You could ignore it, for example. You could laugh it off, attributing it to RooK's ignorance (if any is left) of Christianity. You could even decide he was deliberately baiting you &/or others, and decide not to rise to that bait.

Did RooK knowingly and deliberately try to offend you (and/or anyone else who has, like you, decided to take umbrage)? I can't say; I'm not RooK; I don't know his intentions. Is it likely that was his intention? Personally, I'd vote "likely," but I flunked Mind Reading 101 and can defend that stance on only the most irrational of bases.

Myself, I wouldn't have used RooK's imagery; I have little interest in wrangling over whether Blasphemy Y is more blasphemous than Blasphemy X. I have probably come up with far more blasphemous ideas in the privacy of my own thoughts. I don't post those thoughts here. Why? Simple cowardice: discussions like these are generally (A) a waste of time and space, and (B) unresolvable, and (C) AFAIC, unimportant compared to various RL issues I'm currently dealing with.

The fact remains that your interpretation of both RooK's comment and of "get over yourselves" is your own responsibility, as are your reactions. Your reaction is not RooK's responsibility and it is not mine -- particularly as "get over yourselves" is Curiosity's usage, not mine.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, what makes the remarks of a non-believer like RooK so apallingly offensive to you? I honestly don't understand why it matters so deeply, any more than I understand why (some) Muslims might be ready to burn and pillage over a cartoon.

If your minister or fellow-beiever wrote something like RooK's phrase, I could certainly understand and sympathize with your shock and dismay. RooK belongs to neither category. Hence the notion -- at least for me -- that maybe an explanation of your offendedness might in fact reduce the current heat levels and shed a little light.

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Am I the only freaking weirdo on the Ship who sees what Rook wrote as an aid to devotion?

I mean, seriously. "Dead Jew on a stick." Yes, that's exactly what God almighty chose to become, of his own free choice, for love of us. In all its inglorious, mockable shame.

Given that he chose to make himself exactly that, I don't have a problem with someone bringing it to mind--no matter what the intent might have been. His self-disgrace is our glory.

quote:
Thou canst not, love, disgrace me half so ill,
To set a form upon desired change,
As I'll myself disgrace . . .

Shakespeare, of course.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I still would argue that if this is offensive to your beliefs, then you need to take a long hard look at your beliefs, because this is a clear parody or hyperbole of Christian belief.

So you're saying that parodies are by their very nature not offensive? What an odd position to take. Do you consider the same of mockeries?

[ 01. December 2012, 19:11: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Am I the only freaking weirdo on the Ship who sees what Rook wrote as an aid to devotion?

Carlsberg

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Sorry, I don't follow. Who or what is Carlsberg?

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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I mean, probably ...

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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I still don't get it either, but I love the song. [Smile]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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! "Carlsberg, probably the best lager in the world"

They produced lots of ads on the theme, if carlsberg made hotels/cars/monkeybutlers/whatever, they'd probably be the best in the world.

The song in that particular ad got me into Runrig.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Louise
Shipmate
# 30

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Some of you don't seem to know what trolling is. It's posting things you don't believe or feigning a position you don't hold simply to wind people up. People who post what they do think in robust or offensive terms are not trolling.

I don't remember a procession of offenderati in the Styx the last time I saw RooK using the term - but oh yes that was when he was tearing The Atheist a new orifice


quote:
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on 25 May, 2009 07:14 :

quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
You also need to learn to read for context.
quote:

Here's the thing, you Zippo-wielding gasoline-soaked pile of shit, you don't appear to realize how lousy you are at communication. Sure, it's obvious that you were trying to backhand racist insinuations at the outraged dead-Jew-on-a-stick crowd - but you fucked up the timing. You were too caught up in your zealot's rapture to realize that you left that particular dingleberry hanging in a manner that lets it stick to you personally.

What can I say? You suck.

Funny how nobody was upset about that.

Also there's a reason why people make a distinction between insulting people on grounds of race, sex and sexual orientation and attacking religious beliefs. Religious beliefs are up for debate and can be changed - the whole point of these boards is to debate them - you can't debate someone out of their race or sex. And one person's honest belief honestly expressed is another person's blasphemy.

Enders Shadow for instance posted a thread where he claimed that the God of the Quran, who muslims worship was a demon. Straight up blasphemy to our muslim posters - but a religious belief up for discussion. He was not disciplined because we don't police blasphemy.

Non trinitarian christians believe things which are anathema to trinitarian christians. Pagans believe things that some Christians think are satanic ( and we have had pagan posters in the past). Given the mosaic like nature of religious belief around here the last thing we need are the blasphemy police. There has to be greater lee-way on offence in religion or cross denominational robust debate can't happen.

It gets tricky when religious beliefs shade into racism sexism and homophobia. If someone has a horrendous track record of sexism or racism, they tend to end up with a line they are told not to go over, a straw that will break the camels back.

You then get the idiots who froth at the mouth and treat the last straw as if it was the entire case and who dance around saying 'What if I said that? Eh? Eh? Would I get banned?' ( Long Ranger - what a twit)

It is difficult. But if you can't stand people taking the piss out of your religion, what the hell are you doing on a satirical religious website which has things like the Fruitcake Zone, the Laugh Judgement, Gadgets for God where things people take terribly seriously get lampooned?

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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.

Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jonah the Whale

Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244

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I'll stand up and be counted amongst the offended. Priestess, dead-jew-on-a-stick, "PeteC told me to piss off and go start a poll or something, so I did", bishopess. Which is most offensive? I'm offended by three of them, but then I am the sensitive type so I should probably just fuck of and go and enjoy some zoophilia or something.

JtW

Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
George Spigot

Outcast
# 253

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia.

Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?

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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html

Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
I am the sensitive type so I should probably just fuck off and go and enjoy some zoophilia or something.

And leave the playground to the bullies.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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Oh please. Someone having a go at Christians on a (yes!) more or less Christian website is not a bully.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556

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Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Just because you have your panties in a twist doesn't mean you're being bullied.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?

That's as it should be in any rational society because vulnerable people are the victims of racism and homophobia - and don't come that 'political correctness' shit with me - whereas blasphemy is about God who is well capable of taking care of himself. Offending people is not as bad as persecuting them.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Oh for God's sake. Look, offensive stuff is posted every bloody day on these threads (at least offensive to someone) and you all cope. Sometimes the person is taken to hell for their offensiveness, sometimes people post in support of said persons right to say such vile trash. That's how these boards work. Having a stupidly long styxx thread that essentially amounts to 'Miss, he said a bad word, make him stand in the corner' is a bit like being whinged to death. You can take it to hell - which somebody finally grew pair and did.

So what else do you want? A public burning? Was Enders banned for his vile bile? No; somebody took it to hell. Sometimes these boards can work a miracle and hold up a mirror to us to help us change something we didn't always realize needed changing, but in this instance I'm afraid it's goe past that - it's turned into threads where a lot of shipmates appear like their waiting excitedly in a line at a complaints department because they frankly have no other life.

[ 01. December 2012, 20:40: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia.

Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
Can you honestly not see that his trollery is not merely an insult to the aforementioned Jew?

(Two can play at the "can you honestly not see" bullshit game.)

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?

On an overtly Christian website with a doctrinal basis I expect there would be injunctions against blasphemy, and they may have a heresy police too. The Ship of Fools isn't such a site and we don't have a doctrinal basis, just the 10C's and the board guidelines. Go read them and consign your prejudice about "political correctness" to the 1950's when it was perfectly OK to dismiss people for being gay, pay women less than men and refuse to rent flats to Asians, Irish and blacks.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493

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quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?

quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Also there's a reason why people make a distinction between insulting people on grounds of race, sex and sexual orientation and attacking religious beliefs. Religious beliefs are up for debate and can be changed - the whole point of these boards is to debate them - you can't debate someone out of their race or sex. And one person's honest belief honestly expressed is another person's blasphemy.



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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Some of you don't seem to know what trolling is. It's posting things you don't believe or feigning a position you don't hold simply to wind people up. People who post what they do think in robust or offensive terms are not trolling.

Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chesterbelloc

Tremendous trifler
# 3128

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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?

Think about what you just said and come back at some stage to tell us why it spectacularly fails on at least two grounds.

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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."

Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged



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