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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Feb Book Group:The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Feb Book Group:The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry
Tree Bee

Ship's tiller girl
# 4033

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This month's book is written by Rachel Joyce.
Harold Fry receives a letter from a seriously ill friend and sets out to post his reply,but keeps walking.
Doesn't sound promising?
Give the book a go, you may be surprised.
The discussion will be led by Trudy.

--------------------
"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
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Edith
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Asda are selling it very, very cheap. It even has questions at the end for reading groups.

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Edith

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Emma Louise

Storm in a teapot
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Oooh my real life book group are reading this. When do you discuss it? At the end of the month/ middle/etc? I'll try and check back in...
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Trudy Scrumptious

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Totally forgot that I had suggested and thus volunteered to lead this, but I'm still very excited about the book so this will be fun. I'll post questions around the 20th as usual.

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Books and things.

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Boadicea Trott
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Just finished this; it was absolutely amazing!
One of the *very* best books I have ever read. [Overused]

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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett

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Starbug
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Just ordered it from Amazon - looks interesting!

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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

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Nenya
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I have just finished this and enjoyed it. [Smile] I'm now going to reread it in the light of what we learn about Harold on his journey.

Nen - may make notes. [Biased]

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Nenya
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quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
Just finished this; it was absolutely amazing!
One of the *very* best books I have ever read. [Overused]

"Amazing" is a very strong adjective, I'd love to know why this book was that for you. [Smile] I thought it very well written and an enjoyable read, I'm not sure I'd describe it as "amazing."

Have I jumped the gun and do we have to wait till everyone's read it before we start discussing? Should I have waited for Trudy to start? [Hot and Hormonal]

Nen - unsure of protocol and not wanting to offend.

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Sir Kevin
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No interest here: hope to finish last month's book today and also work on a novel of my own: see NaNoWriMo thread.

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Trudy Scrumptious

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We generally do wait till about the 20th of the month (at which point anyone can start discussing it; you don't need to wait for me to post questions or anything, although I will). I believe the reason for waiting is not to "spoil" the book for those who haven't finished it yet. At least, that's my understanding; it's been awhile since I've led one of these discussions.

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Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Tree Bee

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That's about it, Trudy.
Have finished and await the discussion.

--------------------
"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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Sarasa
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This is on my Kindle awaiting reading when I go on holiday next week.

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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.

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Tree Bee

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Bump.

--------------------
"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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Trudy Scrumptious

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I'll kick off discussion my saying that I really, really loved this book -- I devoured it in a day, found it very hard to put down, and listed it was one of my top 5 favourite novels that I read last year. So of course I'm interested to know what others made of it. If you liked it, what did you appreciate about it and what kept you turning the pages? If you didn't, where did it lose your interest?

It's a very "quiet" book in some ways, far more character-driven than plot-driven, yet I found it a real page-turner. I think I was more interested in what was being revealed about Harold's past than about the outcome of the pilgrimage, but I loved the way it all fell together.

Some questions to discuss, but don't feel bound by these:

1. I thought the term "pilgrimage" was very apt for this book because I saw it very much as a modern pilgrimage, a spiritual journey for someone who is not traditionally religious. What did you think about the "pilgrimage" aspect of Harold's journey?

2. What is Harold looking for, and does he find it?

3. As I've already said, the thing I found most intriguing was the unfolding of the story of Harold's and his family's past, especially the story of what happened to David. Did you find this interesting or a distraction from the forward motion of the pilgrimage story?

4. What do you think the novel has to say about faith? Harold is initially inspired by the girl in the shop who tells him that she had faith that her aunt would get better, yet this faith turns out later to have possibly been misplaced -- the girl's aunt did not live (nor does Queenie). What does this suggest about doing things "in faith"?

5. How did you feel about the ending? Was it the resolution you'd been hoping for?

--------------------
Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Nenya
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quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
If you liked it, what did you appreciate about it and what kept you turning the pages? If you didn't, where did it lose your interest?


I did like it, although I took a while to get going with it. I found it a good read but it took a while to get my attention, I think because to start with I wasn't interested enough in any of the characters. But I did warm to them all, and started to want to know who Harold would meet next. I also got interested in Maureen's journey of self-discovery and her relationship with Rex, the next door neighbour. And of course, once you start to realise there's more to it all than what meets the eye, you want to know.

I lost interest for a while after Harold had met the journalist and everything became dominated by the media and what the group who travelled with him wanted. I guess it was a true-to-life representation of what could well have happened but I felt it distracted from the journey too much.

quote:
1. I thought the term "pilgrimage" was very apt for this book because I saw it very much as a modern pilgrimage, a spiritual journey for someone who is not traditionally religious. What did you think about the "pilgrimage" aspect of Harold's journey?

I described it to myself as an odyssey when I was reading it but I do think it's a spiritual journey and not just for Harold but also for Maureen, even though she doesn't go anywhere.

quote:
2. What is Harold looking for, and does he find it?

I'm re-reading it at present, so I could be wrong and find something that contradicts me, but I don't think it's overtly stated what Harold is looking for, apart from the obvious of getting to Queenie. Although if that was really all he cared about he'd have jumped into the car! He finds something - resolution, restoration of his relationships with Maureen - and he's glad about that, he loves his wife and it's clear pretty much from the outset that his journey to Queenie is not due to romantic feelings for her. Whether that was what he expected to find is another question.

quote:
3. As I've already said, the thing I found most intriguing was the unfolding of the story of Harold's and his family's past, especially the story of what happened to David. Did you find this interesting or a distraction from the forward motion of the pilgrimage story?

I found it interesting, it was one of the things that kept me reading. As well as some of the possible red herrings. Was Harold, as Maureen states at one point, suffering from Alzheimer's? Or, flight of imagination, was she? The truth about David was, I found, a nasty shock.

quote:
4. What do you think the novel has to say about faith? Harold is initially inspired by the girl in the shop who tells him that she had faith that her aunt would get better, yet this faith turns out later to have possibly been misplaced -- the girl's aunt did not live (nor does Queenie). What does this suggest about doing things "in faith"?

I think this was an interesting comment on life as we know it. Faith is often what keeps us going; it may not give us the outcomes we hope for or expect but that doesn't mean doing things in faith is invalid, and the outcomes we do get can be no less wonderful than the ones we were hoping for. Queenie did live long enough to see Harold. Harold and Maureen's relationship was renewed. Both gained valuable insights into people and life.

quote:
5. How did you feel about the ending? Was it the resolution you'd been hoping for?
I found it satisfying. What could be more likely than two people who have rediscovered their love for one another sharing laughter that the rest of the world doesn't understand? There's realism too - Maureen recognises that the future will hold doctors' visits, illness, bereavement.

Nen - enjoying the discussion.
[Smile]

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Trudy Scrumptious

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quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:

quote:
3. As I've already said, the thing I found most intriguing was the unfolding of the story of Harold's and his family's past, especially the story of what happened to David. Did you find this interesting or a distraction from the forward motion of the pilgrimage story?

I found it interesting, it was one of the things that kept me reading. As well as some of the possible red herrings. Was Harold, as Maureen states at one point, suffering from Alzheimer's? Or, flight of imagination, was she? The truth about David was, I found, a nasty shock.


I was really intrigued by what happened to David and I thought the way the story unfolded was brilliant. At first I assumed David was alive, but estranged from his parents. Or perhaps, thanks to the references to Maureen being the only one who talked to him, that he was still in touch with his mother but estranged from Harold.

As the story goes on there are more and more hints that David is actually dead and that Maureen's conversations with him are happening only in her mind. The "red herring" for me was when David decides to join the army -- I thought it was going to turn out he'd been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq. The way he actually did die was so much more terrible, but I thought the groundwork for it had been well laid, and the way in which his death (and the problems of his life preceding it) affected Harold, Maureen, and their marriage, seemed very realistic to me.

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Books and things.

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Trudy Scrumptious

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So, anyone else read it and have thoughts to share?

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Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Tree Bee

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Here are my thoughts. This was my second time of reading, and I loved it just as much.

1. Yes, I thought pilgrimage was an apt word for Harold's journey too, though Harold didn't see it in those terms.
He was attempting to do something for a friend who had made a huge sacrifice for him in the past. He hadn't had a chance to thank her or even speak to her since then, and she had been 'brushed off' by his wife, though he didn't know that.It was an impulsive thing to do and out of character. I think if he'd planned the journey he wouldn't have made it.
I loved that he made the journey just as he was, even wearing unsuitable shoes as they were the shoes he had.
And the healing he received by living 'parallel days', watching and experiencing nature and meeting other people was, I imagine, the sort of healing received on a pilgrimage.

2.He wanted Queenie to live. The fact that she did wait for him to arrive in Berwick meant that he succeeded, though she didn't linger long. And she was so unwell it was shocking to read. It's good to learn that she knew him and remembered he was a good man.
Her death and the way Harold and his wife behaved when they visited her turned out to be another healing experience for them.

3. The unfolding of David's story and what had happened to him was skillfully done.
It showed how stuck in the past Harold and Maureen were, and it was painful to read.
Why had they failed David so badly? Why couldn't Harold say the words to David that were in his head? Why was Maureen's memory so warped that she couldn't remember Harold touching David?
I imagine these are ordinary everyday tragedies.

4. The matter of faith in this novel, hmmm. Harold had faith that Queenie would live. The garage girl had given him faith, even though the story she told him was factually incorrect, it still inspired him.
The faith I see here is in the simplicity as Harold sent home his wallet and determined to live free.
It's in the generosity of the 'woman with food' and the doctor who took him in and tended to his feet and legs.
It's in the shaking off of the trappings of media fame and others hanging on.
It's in the change in the relationship between Harold and Maureen and the coming to terms with David's death.

5. I was sad that Queenie was in such a bad way. Would it have made a better story if they could have had a conversation?
The last scene of Harold and Maureen laughing in the sea was wonderful. A very healing illustration.

--------------------
"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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Nenya
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It would have been interesting to let Queenie and Harold have a conversation but it's rather more haunting that they didn't. And the fact that she was so very ill makes it more remarkable that she survived so long, waiting for him.

I don't think Harold is only thinking of Queenie when he sets off. At the end of chapter one, he thinks of how Maureen talks to David, writes his name in cards to him, finds the nursing home for his father and it "begged the question... that if she was, in effect, Harold, 'Then who am I?'" Harold's walk is something he wants to do, he tells Maureen he needs to do it and to do it in his way so his journey is a voyage of self-discovery. Along the way he's helped by the kindness of strangers and we see humanity at its best - and worst.

Did it occur to you to question how realistic it all was and did that spoil it for you? Would the mild-mannered Harold really have done that to Napier? Why does Maureen so thoroughly blame Harold for what happened to David? How realistic is it really that a 65 year old man who, if his wife is to be believed, only ever walked to the car, would really make that journey on foot successfully when he was so ill-equipped? Isn't it all really very Unlikely? Does that matter? [Smile]

Nen - devil's advocate.

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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chive

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I have to admit I cried at the end of the book (which is somewhat embarrassing as I was at work at the time) but I did feel that my emotions had been manipulated by the author. It did irritate me a wee bit.

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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost

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Trudy Scrumptious

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Nen, I thought parts of it were VERY unrealistic, mostly things to do with the walk. The part where I really decided I had to suspend my disbelief was when Harold was offered a decent pair of hiking boots and kept on with his deck shoes. There's just no way in the world he would have made it that far in those shoes, and I say this as a generally un-athletic person who sometimes walks fairly long distances and has tried it in inappropriate footwear. It's stretching credibility that he could have done the walk at all, but he definitely could NOT have done it in those shoes. That was the part where I decided not to read it as straight realism but to see the walk as more of a mythological journey. I mean, the rest of the novel is straight realism (all the other things you mentioned, I thought were pretty realistic) but walking that far, in his condition, in those shoes, simply would not happen. He'd have been hospitalized whether he wanted to be or not.

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Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Trudy Scrumptious

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quote:
Originally posted by chive:
I have to admit I cried at the end of the book (which is somewhat embarrassing as I was at work at the time) but I did feel that my emotions had been manipulated by the author. It did irritate me a wee bit.

I'm never quite sure what people mean when they say they think the author is manipulating their emotions (since in my view that's what writers are doing all the time anyway) ... can you explain that a bit more chive? (I cried too BTW).

--------------------
Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Nenya
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quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
That was the part where I decided not to read it as straight realism but to see the walk as more of a mythological journey.

Yes, I did the same - not really consciously, but somehow the realism ceases to matter once you're caught up with the story. Or that's what I found anyway.

Which encounters of Harold's did you find particularly memorable? The one that stays with me is the silver-haired gentleman who agonises about buying his young male friend a new pair of trainers.

The end didn't make me cry; I thought it was very fitting but somehow not quite powerful enough for that. I read "The Song of Achilles" recently and loved it but that didn't make me cry either. And I used to cry at books a lot.

Nen - becoming hard-hearted in her old age.

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Sarasa
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1. I thought 'pilgrimage' was a very apt word for what Harold did. For me a pilgramage is about contecting with others (be they living people or dead saints) in a deeper way and discovering more about your own connection with those people, and i think that's what Harold did.

2. I think Harold was looking to make sense of a life that had lost all meaning and to re-conect with Maureen, and i think he achieved that.

3. I thought the backstory was well inter-woven in this story (unlike last month's read), but I guessed from the start that David would be dead, though I kept on hoping that the author was going to surprise me and that he'd turn up alive.

4. I thought the faith thing was just a hook to get Harold on his way, it was plain at the begining that he'd misinterpreted the garage girl's statement. However I do think it's important to do things in faith. When Harold started his faith was that he would make Queenie better, as it was he healed himself and his relationship with Maureen.

5. I thought it was courageous to have Queenie so ill that there could be no touching reconcilliation scene between them, but there was a reconcilliation between Harold and Maureen and that was the most important part.

There were bits that really struck me, the 'cycling mother' who looked so in control, but had the scars on her arms, the kindness of stranagers, the idea that if you trust others you will receive trust, the way that the media (and other people) can hijack your intentions.

I agree with Trudy that some of it was unrealistic, the shoes being an example. Also when Maureen tells the doctor Harold has the first stages of alzheimers, I assumed that there would be police out searching for him, trying to forcibly bring him home. When at the end Maureen talks about doctor's visits etc in the future I was wondering if that was actually true, or at least something in her heart that she suspected.

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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.

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chive

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quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
quote:
Originally posted by chive:
I have to admit I cried at the end of the book (which is somewhat embarrassing as I was at work at the time) but I did feel that my emotions had been manipulated by the author. It did irritate me a wee bit.

I'm never quite sure what people mean when they say they think the author is manipulating their emotions (since in my view that's what writers are doing all the time anyway) ... can you explain that a bit more chive? (I cried too BTW).
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you, I had to do the evil work thing.

I agree with you that this is what writers do - they play with your thoughts and emotions. I just don't like it when this feels forced. If I read a book and the story moves me, brilliant - that's what the story has done. What I don't like is when I feel that the author is manipulating the story to make you feel a certain emotion. That the emotion isn't true but created.

I don't know if that makes any sense at all.

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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost

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Tree Bee

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# 4033

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quote:
Originally posted by chive:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
quote:
Originally posted by chive:
I have to admit I cried at the end of the book (which is somewhat embarrassing as I was at work at the time) but I did feel that my emotions had been manipulated by the author. It did irritate me a wee bit.

I'm never quite sure what people mean when they say they think the author is manipulating their emotions (since in my view that's what writers are doing all the time anyway) ... can you explain that a bit more chive? (I cried too BTW).
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you, I had to do the evil work thing.

I agree with you that this is what writers do - they play with your thoughts and emotions. I just don't like it when this feels forced. If I read a book and the story moves me, brilliant - that's what the story has done. What I don't like is when I feel that the author is manipulating the story to make you feel a certain emotion. That the emotion isn't true but created.

I don't know if that makes any sense at all.

I agree with chive about feeling manipulated by the author.
I don't mind information being withheld by the author if the characters are equally ignorant, and we discover the truth together.
In this case Harold and Maureen couldn't face up to the truth and were living as if David was alive.
This led me to believe that Maureen actually was talking to David and expecting his visit.
So the reader is excluded.
Do I recall that We Need To Talk about Kevin was similar! (I read it speedily and with horror)

--------------------
"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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Nenya
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# 16427

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quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
I agree with chive about feeling manipulated by the author.
I don't mind information being withheld by the author if the characters are equally ignorant, and we discover the truth together.
In this case Harold and Maureen couldn't face up to the truth and were living as if David was alive.
This led me to believe that Maureen actually was talking to David and expecting his visit.
So the reader is excluded.
Do I recall that We Need To Talk about Kevin was similar! (I read it speedily and with horror)

That's interesting. I didn't mind the information about David being witheld from me at all. I think in some way Maureen did believe she was talking to him; at one point doesn't she challenge Harold and ask if he'd talked to David about his walking?

I read "We Need To Talk About Kevin" a long time ago and, like you, speedily. (I rather wish I could forget it.) My memory of it is that the reader knows more than Kevin's mother. I knew something awful was going to happen to that poor hamster she bought for Kevin's sister, but she seemed oblivious. [Roll Eyes]

To return to the book in hand, the thing that did annoy me was the constant use of pathetic fallacy. It hit me between the eyes on the first page, with the clipped lawn being "spiked" by the washing line and "trapped" by the fencing. It continued with instances such as the "crumpled brown" petals of the daffodils on the day when Maureen, fearful and crushed, manages to get herself to the doctor, to end when she finds the broken figure of Harold "under a grey heavy sky by a grey heavy sea." I got more than slightly fed up with the weather and surroundings all so predictably mirroring what was happening. [Roll Eyes]

Did it inspire anyone to go for more walks? [Smile]

Nen - to whom going for a walk is an effort.

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Trudy Scrumptious

BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647

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Well I had read "Wild" by Cheryl Strayed shortly before it (interesting to compare the two -- one a true story and the other a novel, but both about extremely long, challenging walks as a way of changing your life and healing your wounds) and the two of them together inspired me to walk more, and to be more intentional about walking. I don't think walking works as a vehicle for self-discovery for everyone, but it seems to for me.

I didn't share the feeling of being manipulated by the author but with those explanations I can see a bit better how others might have felt that way.

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Books and things.

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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427

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I have a friend who goes off for walks on her own periodically, for several days at a time. I'm going to encourage her to read this book when she gets back from her current excursion. [Smile]

I thought the book was as much about the observations that the author wanted to make about life and people as about Harold's journey of self-discovery; it was a good medium in which to do it. Even if we don't go for walks ourselves we all encounter people on a day to day basis and there's always more to their situations than meets the eye.

I found the book mirrored much of my recent experience about life. Sometimes I wonder how I'm going to get through certain situations (though I've never attempted something as unlikely as a walk of hundreds of miles in only yachting shoes [Biased] ) but so far I've got through things with the support of family and friends, the advice of professionals and the kindness of strangers. Much like Harold and Maureen. [Smile]

Nen - feeling philosophical. [Cool]

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Boadicea Trott
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I would love to know more about the religious background of the author; it is interesting that it is almost as if Harold is offering up his pain from walking in wholly inappropriate footwear in expiation for his self-perceived failings as a husband and father as well as a supreme act of faith.

It works, as Queenie does lie long enough to see him one last time, and he does re-connect with his wife even if it is too late to do so with his son.

I found this an immensely moving book, and I think that it becomes even more so if the reader has experienced death of a loved one and the whole mourning & grieving process. The impending arrival of the Big 50 birthday has really made me focus a great deal on what I have done right and wrong with my life, and what path/form I want the rest of my life to take; the book resonated so very deeply with me that chunks of it could have been written by me or about me.

I think it is definitely one of the best books I have read in a very long time indeed.

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Tree Bee

Ship's tiller girl
# 4033

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Rachel Joyce's website is worth a look .
It gives a flavour of where she's coming from, and the snippet from the audio book read by Jim Broadbent makes me want to hear it all.

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http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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Nenya
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# 16427

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quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
Rachel Joyce's website is worth a look .

That website's very interesting; the book was written from the heart and I think that shows.

Nen - whose mum died last year and who, I think, would have enjoyed this book. Though perhaps not in the last couple of years.

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