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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bugger the Bishops!
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Bishops should be pastors, godly people, caring for the clergy with whom they share a cure of souls, and with a vision that inspires those clergy. What do we have instead? With a few - a very few - notable exceptions we have bureaucrats, spineless pen pushers, whose only care is to keep their noses clean so that may advance higher up the episcopal ladder.
Later this year will see the 25th anniversary of my ordination; I was deaconed in 1987. During the past 25 years I have run into my fair share of troubles. Only once did a Bishop help me when I was in difficulties (that was Richard Chartres who did all he could to support me). The commonest reaction was fervent hand washing - "You will have to sort that out yourself - it's nothing to do with me". Currently I am working in a secular post, and I cannot even get permission to celebrate communion in my local church because my last diocesan won't even give me a recommendation - or a reason why he is treating me like this. Actually it is quite pleasant having a break from pastoral work, and the burden of other people's problems and expectations, and I can imagine never going back to ordained work. And not a single one of my "fathers in God" will give a toss.
My situation is not unique. I don't know how many of the friends who trained with me are still active, but I can think of many names who ran into problems, and were quietly abandoned by the church. They needed help, the Church did not provide it, and they finally made new and fruitful lives for themselves well away from its gloomy shadow. Parish churches get berated for not following up people who stop attending, and just fade away. Should not Bishops be actively seeking out and supporting the clergy who fade away? This has a practical, as well as theological, aspect. The Church is not exactly over flowing with priests at the moment, and every one of these individuals represents a considerable investment in terms of the training they have received. Instead of pastoral care these arrogant tosspots display a neurotic obsession with their own dignity, and a delight in following the nosiest crowd. No wonder the Anglican Church is in decline when its leaders are such wooly headed muppets!
(One of the names on my very short list of exceptions to the above rant is Rowan Williams. God help the CoE when he goes.)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
As a certain shipmate has recently discovered, rants posted on the ship have a way of haunting people in real life, Rob.
Zach
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
+Mervyn Stockwood was a very popular pastor among his clergy. Apparently, when he retired he said "Gaze upon me, for I am the last bishop you will have. All those who follow me will simply be managers"
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Which wasn't true of all his successors, however much it was of the C of E as a whole.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Bishops should be pastors, godly people, caring for the clergy with whom they share a cure of souls, and with a vision that inspires those clergy. What do we have instead? With a few - a very few - notable exceptions we have bureaucrats, spineless pen pushers, whose only care is to keep their noses clean so that may advance higher up the episcopal ladder.
Yep - 99% of them are just politicians going by another name.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I don't know about the CoE, but in my diocese our diocesan has done several things for our church and priests.
First, we had a priest who had some ideas and plans that a few of our more proprietary members became more and more angered by. It got so bad that she was badly bullied and yelled at by irate visitors to the vestry meetings. And it was pretty likely that some serious vandalism to her property was perpetrated by someone from our church who had gone off the deep end. The bishop came down like a hammer on the individuals who had gotten seriously out of line- not the ones who reasonably disagreed with her, but the yellers and the threateners. And he saw that she got some security measures for her house. A later rector served ably for about five years, but ran into serious health issues that made it very difficult physically and emotionally for him to serve a parish full time, so the bishop channeled him into a program that let him continue to work as a priest, but didn't over-tax him.
And right now he has started a program to rescue our church and two other churches in the area from dissolution (the recession, you know ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ) by assigning us the services of five priests, and guiding us through discernment of what are our calls to ministry to our communities. He is a great one for making lemons into lemonade. He does have a mind of his own, though, and if you don't want to get stepped on, get out of the way!
I apologize for not adding to the rant. I actually just wanted some of you lot to feel envious. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
As a certain shipmate has recently discovered, rants posted on the ship have a way of haunting people in real life, Rob.
Zach
Best I can track is that Robert Armin was a clown who worked with Shakespeare, which is why real haunting is not likely.
As for the rant, RA, I have seen precisely what you have posted about with 3 bishops, and not with 1, so my estimate from limited experience, as a spectator, is that the odds are 25% that you will have support and positivity from one of those. And your rant is actually pretty mild.
The Anglican church is in decline everywhere except Africa apparently. We do know why don't we?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Some bishops work very hard to help those priests in their care. But what they do in this sphere is confidential and therefore they can't tell you.
Simples.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Good rant , if you feel like a rant that is .
I just think the very grass roots of the Christian Faith is strange state of inner turmoil . The net result being that congregations are inclined to turn on their leaders as opposed to supporting them.
Yeah, I know we all like a grumble behind the vicar's back in a weak moment, but they are just people doing their jobs in the arena as it is.
If we don't like the arena then we can always set up a new one, as did John Wesley . His grievances towards the Church hierarchy of his day were not dissimilar to those expressed in the OP
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
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Posted
Very hard to comment on the OP as probably quite rightly there is no clue as to what the issues are.
If I have an issue with a Bishop (or an Archdeacon) I am inclined to ask what more I could do to get my point over clearly, and how well I might handle the issues if put in the same position. Bishops are like everyone else - you make the most of what they are and you have to forgive what they aren't.
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Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
As a certain shipmate has recently discovered, rants posted on the ship have a way of haunting people in real life, Rob.
Zach
Not sure who you're talking about here Zach, but I used to post here under my own name. Then I got bitten - by a bishop - over some innocent comments. So I changed my Ship identity. This is an issue I feel strongly about. My rant may come back and bite me in the ass one day, but I don't reckon I have much future in the Church anyway.
And, while I am feeling pissed off right now, this isn't just about me. There are loads of ex-clergy in the country, who have been allowed to wander away from the Church. I seem to remember someone once talking about a good shepherd who goes out looking for lost sheep. Most bishops don't seem to have heard that story though.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AberVicar:
........If I have an issue with a Bishop (or an Archdeacon) I am inclined to ask what more I could do to get my point over clearly, .....
I suffer from this problem too and not just with Bishops and their ilk. I've always thought it's a matter of explaining clearly and then, even if whoever it is doesn't agree with me they at least understand my reasoning. But it doesn't always work like that. Some people are so governed by expediency that they have little independent reasoning. The CofE hierarchy works within a culture of expediency and those instances where it manages a clear and reasoned stance can often be traced to outside influences proving stronger.
E.g. safeguarding policies. Did the Bishops and their assorted advisors produce policies which protect the rights of children and also, very importantly, protect the rights of anyone accused? Did they buggery. They don't understand the principles of justice. And because they are so sodding clueless cases of abuse have collapsed. It's pressure from the police, not their own understanding, which produced workable diocesan policies.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
.... part of the problem is the management culture .......
Bishops are not hapless victims of any sort of culture in the Church. It is they who largely determine the prevailing culture.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
.... part of the problem is the management culture .......
Bishops are not hapless victims of any sort of culture in the Church. It is they who largely determine the prevailing culture.
And the fact they have spent a goodly number of years marinating and navigating in that culture tends to self-select for people who think management culture is a-ok.
(p.s. Every time I see this thread's title, I think, "I'd rather not bugger any bishops, I know where they've been...")
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I think it funny to condemn bishops for 'just being managers', when, according to the good book, one of the gifts necessary for such a role of oversight is 'the gift of administration'.
A bishop should be a good manager of people: and that means they have to have a degree of discernment as well as goodwill towards them. But RA's observations that many simply let go, or turn away from the problems of clergy in grave difficulty is probably quite an accurate portrayal of how things work in general. If two thirds of one's clergy are ailing due to age or circumstance, there's a lot of triage that needs to happen. And some will simply fall into the 'too hard' basket. At that point, I assume leaving it for God and time to sort out is the default position.
Don't most diocesans these days have a list of good Christian counsellors that clergy may be sent to when things go pear-shaped in their lives?
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Yes.
(But see also my previous post.)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
quote:
Don't most diocesans these days have a list of good Christian counsellors that clergy may be sent to when things go pear-shaped in their lives?
No. In fact, my bishop warned me against seeing a psychologist (whom I have been seeing since I had terrible problems with my training rector - also denied and ignored by the episcopate - in my curacy lo these 4 years ago)...
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
Bishops are not hapless victims of any sort of culture in the Church. It is they who largely determine the prevailing culture.
Not in the Church of England they don't. Parishes largely reproduce their local culture and style without any reference to bishops.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
Bishops are not hapless victims of any sort of culture in the Church. It is they who largely determine the prevailing culture.
Not in the Church of England they don't. Parishes largely reproduce their local culture and style without any reference to bishops.
I'm talking about the prevailing culture within the CofE as an institution. Which is what I think this thread is about - "Bugger the Bishops!" as representing the way the Bishops operate in leading the Church. Expediency does indeed generally leave parishes to determine their own culture and doesn't interfere unless forced to, often by an outside agency. Bishops have a duty of oversight but when expediency rules, 'oversight' can be meaningless.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Clergy having problems are sometimes sent to stay with experienced colleagues in other dioceses, while they sort themselves out or decide what they want to do next. Thus they have space, and time, but are not completely removed from the church context.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Don't most diocesans these days have a list of good Christian counsellors that clergy may be sent to when things go pear-shaped in their lives?
Not as far as I can see. Some dioceses circulate a leaflet of organizations or people who might assist people, including clergy, going through a tough time. It might be a list of professionals, in specific roles, rather than a general kind of spiritual director. Some don't.
It generally seems to be left up to individual clergy to find someone for the role of spiritual director - which is an important long-term relationship. Rather than waiting for things to go pear-shaped and then have to go looking for help, it would make more sense to have the ongoing spiritual direction thing.
The single recommendation senior clergy made to me when I moved to Ireland (after I'd asked a few times about potential spiritual directors) said 'no'!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Don't most diocesans these days have a list of good Christian counsellors that clergy may be sent to when things go pear-shaped in their lives?
The very first diocese I served in had a priest who was an excellent counsellor, properly trained and invaluable. Since then I've worked in six other dioceses and none of them offered anything of the sort when things got tough.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
Hmm, I once went to a diocese where clergy were charged £15 per hour if they needed this ministry! Interesting precedent....
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
Hmm, I once went to a diocese where clergy were charged £15 per hour if they needed this ministry! Interesting precedent....
Shit, I'm joining up with the clergy then, my therapist charges my insurance 200USD an hour (125GBP)!
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
my therapist charges my insurance 200USD an hour (125GBP)
He charges everyone else half that.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Heh, they're always complaining there is a clergy shortage. If each one were to cultivate a dual personality you'd get two for the price of one. Interesting thought.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Heh, they're always complaining there is a clergy shortage. If each one were to cultivate a dual personality you'd get two for the price of one. Interesting thought.
It would be fabulous if there were two of me: double the work could be done!
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Heh, they're always complaining there is a clergy shortage. If each one were to cultivate a dual personality you'd get two for the price of one. Interesting thought.
It would be fabulous if there were two of me: double the work could be done!
Ya cos more hard work is the answer, screw this praying, grace and God stuff. Work harder bastards.
When Oh When are we going to see that God can do more in 5 seconds thatn I can do in fifty years?
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
God may be able to do more in 5 seconds than you can do in fifty years, but His record on keeping the paperwork up to date is woeful. And I can't remember the last time He turned up to lead a funeral...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Aelred of Rievaulx
Shipmate
# 16860
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Posted
I think the problem is that Bishops don't want to know a lot of stuff. They don't want to know about:
marriages on the rocks
clergy who are gay
clergy who have mental health problems
clergy who are being bullied
clergy who are inadequate to the task
In the C of E their power is fairly circumscribed. So they have a thing that they tell themselves about their hands being tied. Thier spines were mostly removed at consecration. They like to fudge things and not to come to clear decisions.
They are terrified of the press and of bad publicity. They never ask why clergy have dropped out - some of the best and most creative. They manage.
They get a nice house and a car, reasonable money and lots of respect. I think they could do a LOT better than they do.
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In friendship are joined honor and charm, truth and joy, sweetness and good-will, affection and action. And all these take their beginning from Christ, advance through Christ, and are perfected in Christ.
Posts: 136 | From: English Midlands | Registered: Jan 2012
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
It generally seems to be left up to individual clergy to find someone for the role of spiritual director - which is an important long-term relationship. Rather than waiting for things to go pear-shaped and then have to go looking for help, it would make more sense to have the ongoing spiritual direction thing.
The single recommendation senior clergy made to me when I moved to Ireland (after I'd asked a few times about potential spiritual directors) said 'no'!
Spiritual directors are not counsellors! Though it is important for all clergy to have someone to talk to, and a diocese that doesn't make provision for this is seriously failing in its duty, IMHO.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
It generally seems to be left up to individual clergy to find someone for the role of spiritual director - which is an important long-term relationship. Rather than waiting for things to go pear-shaped and then have to go looking for help, it would make more sense to have the ongoing spiritual direction thing.
The single recommendation senior clergy made to me when I moved to Ireland (after I'd asked a few times about potential spiritual directors) said 'no'!
Spiritual directors are not counsellors! Though it is important for all clergy to have someone to talk to, and a diocese that doesn't make provision for this is seriously failing in its duty, IMHO.
I didn't say they were, so wind yer neck in!
I'm saying that some dioceses offer details of counselling services for clergy and/or laity in particular difficulties. But prevention being better than cure spiritual directors are generally the best approach to ensuring clerical mental health.
I certainly don't want a counsellor of any sort; but I seriously miss my spiritual director!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
I think the problem is that Bishops don't want to know a lot of stuff. They don't want to know about:
marriages on the rocks
clergy who are gay
clergy who have mental health problems
clergy who are being bullied
clergy who are inadequate to the task
In the C of E their power is fairly circumscribed. So they have a thing that they tell themselves about their hands being tied. Thier spines were mostly removed at consecration. They like to fudge things and not to come to clear decisions.
They are terrified of the press and of bad publicity. They never ask why clergy have dropped out - some of the best and most creative. They manage.
They get a nice house and a car, reasonable money and lots of respect. I think they could do a LOT better than they do.
True.
Also, they don't want to know about the 'nightmare vicars' as discussed on another thread, or about dodgy goings-on of any sort.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Heh, they're always complaining there is a clergy shortage. If each one were to cultivate a dual personality you'd get two for the price of one. Interesting thought.
It would be fabulous if there were two of me: double the work could be done!
Maybe if there was only one of me, I'd only make the half the mistakes.
And Amen to what Aelred said.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I didn't say they were, so wind yer neck in!
I'm saying that some dioceses offer details of counselling services for clergy and/or laity in particular difficulties. But prevention being better than cure spiritual directors are generally the best approach to ensuring clerical mental health.
I certainly don't want a counsellor of any sort; but I seriously miss my spiritual director!
Sorry Anselmina: I read your initial post too quickly and thought you were implying that. Yes of course ongoing support is essential, and probably more important in the long run than crisis counselling. I think you and anyone else who feels the need of spiritual direction should lobby your bishop and insist that it is available. Often the problem is not that such people aren't around, it's the lack of information and co-ordination about their availability. And if there aren't enough directors, insist that the diocese sets up a scheme for recruiting and training them.
You could always try the nearest Jesuit house.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
I think the problem is that Bishops don't want to know a lot of stuff. They don't want to know about:
marriages on the rocks
clergy who are gay
clergy who have mental health problems
clergy who are being bullied
clergy who are inadequate to the task
In the C of E their power is fairly circumscribed. So they have a thing that they tell themselves about their hands being tied. Thier spines were mostly removed at consecration. They like to fudge things and not to come to clear decisions.
They are terrified of the press and of bad publicity. They never ask why clergy have dropped out - some of the best and most creative. They manage.
They get a nice house and a car, reasonable money and lots of respect. I think they could do a LOT better than they do.
I'd love to know what Bishops do do all day then - the one I know about most goes off each day to the diocesan office at 8am, returns home briefly at 5pm, grabs a quick bite to eat, then goes off to visit a parish or some such, getting back at 10.30pm. He can't spend all that time visiting online poker sites, surely?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
There are good Bishops, undoubtedly. Just not many of them.
And working hard does not always equal doing good.
Parkinson's Law anyone?
[ETA No idea what happened to my code there. Was trying to be helpful and provide a link.]
[Yeah, well, you buggered it up. Good job I was here to fix it for you (and then point and laugh at your ineptitude), ain't it?]
[ 28. March 2012, 10:47: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
I think the problem is that Bishops don't want to know a lot of stuff. .........
I'd love to know what Bishops do do all day then
Busyness can be a good way of avoiding problems. No shortage of bizzybees in the Church. But Aelred is pointing out what Bishops avoid knowing, not what they avoid doing.
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
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Posted
I think it is only right to say that I have had good experiences of Bishoply oversight. And I'm grateful for my current boss in many ways, too, who has particular gifts well suited to his calling.
Just to balance things a little, I remember in a previous diocese where the Diocesan toured all his clergy, just to spend a short time in conversation and prayer, individually with each one. At the end of the time together, he gave a blessing and in my opinion it was a very special time. This particular bishop also toured every parish congregation (including each hall and parish building), over the space of a few years; which was an extremely positive thing to do.
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
I'd love to know what Bishops do do all day then - the one I know about most goes off each day to the diocesan office at 8am, returns home briefly at 5pm, grabs a quick bite to eat, then goes off to visit a parish or some such, getting back at 10.30pm. He can't spend all that time visiting online poker sites, surely?
I've encountered 3 bishops in the past 20 years. I can reveal that this is what they do:
1) They get drunk and try to play the organ.
2) They tread heavily on your foot and go away without apologizing.
3) They give you chocolate coins at Christmas.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Well, if they do 3) I'm prepared to forgive them 1) and 2)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Aelred of Rievaulx
Shipmate
# 16860
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Posted
Bishops do meetings.
Bishops visit schools.
Bishops talk to diocesan staff.
Bishops visit parishes.
Bishops write sermons.
Bishops go to many church services.
Bishops say their prayers.
Bishops worry about stuff - bums on pews, their clergy, the diocesan finances, things that are controversial, what is going to be in the papers, child protection, all that kind of thing.
That is what they do.
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In friendship are joined honor and charm, truth and joy, sweetness and good-will, affection and action. And all these take their beginning from Christ, advance through Christ, and are perfected in Christ.
Posts: 136 | From: English Midlands | Registered: Jan 2012
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
Bishops do meetings.
Bishops visit schools.
Bishops talk to diocesan staff.
Bishops visit parishes.
Bishops write sermons.
Bishops go to many church services.
Bishops say their prayers.
Bishops worry about stuff - bums on pews, their clergy, the diocesan finances, things that are controversial, what is going to be in the papers, child protection, all that kind of thing.
That is what they do.
Dr Seuss clones belong in Heaven.
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Even more so than I was before
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
Bishops do meetings.
Bishops visit schools.
Bishops talk to diocesan staff.
Bishops visit parishes.
Bishops write sermons.
Bishops go to many church services.
Bishops say their prayers.
Bishops worry about stuff - bums on pews, their clergy, the diocesan finances, things that are controversial, what is going to be in the papers, child protection, all that kind of thing.
Your first and your third item are essentially the same thing. We know about the second, the fourth and the sixth because it is covered by the local press. We assume the fifth, but it ain't necessarily so. I would like to presume that the last two are rolled into one, so that the Bishops' worries are confided to God, but again, that's a hopeful inference. In fact you have no idea whether your Bishop says his prayers, writes his sermons, or worries about the usual worrisome things.
The great Michael Ramsey used to say to new Bishops, 'Three Sundays out of four you will be in some church or other. The fourth Sunday everyone will think you are, but you won't be. You'll be home in your study reading a book.'
I do think that modern Bishops make a fetish of appearing busy, of aping CEOs, with a whole line of staff and courtiers to keep them from having to speak with people outside their staff, apart from scheduled appearances and extraordinary circumstances. I've sat in a Bishop's study (not my Bishop, thank God--he's one of the good ones) and heard him use the phrases 'my precious time' and 'little people like you,' in conversation. You say it has to be so? Really? Michael Ramsey, of blessed memory, used to answer the telephone himself.
[ 29. March 2012, 06:43: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
Bishops visit schools.
That is what they do.
It's always interesting to see how much time they spend in private schools as opposed to time spent in state schools.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Perhaps independent schools invite them more than state schools? And if so, why?
(The bishop came to open our church's CofE primary school extension last month - presumably because someone thought to invite him. Another local CofE school got a former teacher to open their extension - the bishop wasn't invited.)
[ 29. March 2012, 18:45: Message edited by: Chorister ]
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Perhaps independent schools invite them more than state schools? And if so, why?
(The bishop came to open our church's CofE primary school extension last month - presumably because someone thought to invite him. Another local CofE school got a former teacher to open their extension - the bishop wasn't invited.)
Bishop Bob by any chance? Not a bad chap - he did ours as well a couple of years ago.
Both he and Michael have, though, spent more time over the years in the 2 private schools (woodard) in the little white town than they have in the 4 diocese primary and junior schools.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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