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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: 50 Shades of Grey
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Bartolomeo
Musical Engineer
# 8352
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Posted
I like to read banned books. In part this is because, usually, nobody bothers to ban a book that is badly written, or irrelevant, or boring. In part it is because reading banned books teaches volumes about the attitudes and mores of the censors and the societies that empower them.
Deborah George, the director of library materials at the Gwinnett County library, was widely quoted as saying, "We do not collect erotica at Gwinnett County Public Library. That’s part of our materials management collection policy. So, E L James’ three books in the trilogy fit that description."
Gwinnett County is an affluent, rapidly growing county in suburban Atlanta.
Other reviewers and critics have characterized the book as "mommy porn," an allusion to its relatively greater popularity among women.
I obtained a copy of "50 shades" and read through it. It's not really erotica, instead being best understood as a badly written romance novel punctuated with badly written sex scenes. The characters are shallow, the plot transparent, the sex scenes unremarkable, and the BDSM themes a self-caricature.
It's been 20 years since Anne Rice took credit for the Sleeping Beauty trilogy, which makes me surprised that anyone things "50 shades" is still worth a wink and a nudge.
I have these questions for shipmates to consider:
1) Why is this book popular?
2) What does its popularity say about our society?
3) Should Christians avoid reading it on moral grounds?
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"Individual talent is too sporadic and unpredictable to be allowed any important part in the organization society" --Stuart Chase
Posts: 1291 | From: the American Midwest | Registered: Aug 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'm avoiding it because my sister told me her impressions of it and I think I'd have to ream out my mind with a toilet snake after. (She said it was shit and urged me to write some slightly-better shit for her to read.) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
It was developed from Twilight fan fiction! That is reason enough to ban it and reason enough to avoid reading it. Also, unfortunately, explains its popularity.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
I have to admit I've not read any of the books and I've seen them being liberally panned on most bdsm sites. However, they sell them in Tesco which suggests they can't be that durrty.
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
Be careful about writing anything that might remotely be construed as critical of BDSM. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) As I've recently learned the hard way, some of its devotees, whether out of touchiness or eagerness to try you on as a potential partner, could come out of the woodwork to assail you.
Public librarians are in a very difficult position. They must walk a tightrope between professional principles firmly opposed to censorship, on the one hand, and a divided public on the other, some of whom will shamelessly seize upon any excuse to starve the library to death or shut it down outright. These are strange times, when the term "public good" is being emptied of meaning. Of course, libraries have never been able to buy or house everything, anyway. To declare some categories of material in-scope or out-of-scope with a policy at least simplifies decision-making and lets users know what to expect. Except for a few turncoats, they make a sincere effort to determine and buy the best, as determined by literary and subject critics. Quality, not prudery, is the criterion.
If this book is poorly written, as you report, then it should be a low priority to acquire on these grounds. As this verdict is probably in order for most erotica, categorically excluding it from consideration saves much time. However, if it has become a cultural phenomenon, then an academic or research library might want not only to acquire it, but to keep it for many years, simply for that reason: it will be of interest to social scientists and historians.
It's also worth bearing in mind that such books tend to get stolen. Hence an effort to provide them can quickly become a greater commitment than one might anticipate, and is liable to prove a lost cause.
As the founder of LibraryThing has opined, when public libraries began to be a source of popular music and videos, they surrendered some of the high ground. Their role and image inevitably moved away from the schools and education and towards parks and recreation-- hence expendable in those same hard times when people need them the most for serious purposes. Though it might have contributed to their "popularity" as shown by statistics, this decision could yet prove sadly short-sighted.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
A bit marginal, given that discussions of books (movies, TV series) normally take place in Heaven. But in view of the second and third questions in the OP, I'll leave it here pro tem.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
First off, I have not read it, so I am not going to comment on its quality one way or another.
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
If this book is poorly written, as you report, then it should be a low priority to acquire on these grounds. As this verdict is probably in order for most erotica, categorically excluding it from consideration saves much time. However, if it has become a cultural phenomenon, then an academic or research library might want not only to acquire it, but to keep it for many years, simply for that reason: it will be of interest to social scientists and historians.
Based on my last perusal of my neighborhood library, "poorly written" isn't something they worry about when selecting volumes. In this city, and I suspect in many cities, the public library system has two different kinds of libraries: the central branch, which carries more serious books and research materials, and the neighborhood branch, which is aimed at providing reading material that might be of interest to the people in a given neighborhood. I think your standards for what belongs in a library apply to the central branch, and not to the neighborhood branch.
What has surprised me about "50 Shades" is the way people are open about reading it. Is there any other work of erotic fiction that the hostesses of "Good Morning America" admit to reading on air? I was at an airport a few weeks back, and it is all over the airport bookstore front windows. Of course, you could always get mass-market romance books at those book stores (and at the grocery store for that matter), but this one is being marketed as the kind of book you used to have to buy at special stores where you walked out with nondescript black bags. I don't know what that says about society, but it certainly indicates a more open attitude towards erotic fiction.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I don't know about the level of erotica but I know that the level of writing (from the bits I've read; I couldn't handle the whole thing) is several steps down from your average Harlequin Romance. It really is very, very badly written.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
What has surprised me about "50 Shades" is the way people are open about reading it. Is there any other work of erotic fiction that the hostesses of "Good Morning America" admit to reading on air?
I wonder what Camille Paglia has to say about this craze.
I don't think I wonder what Andrea Dworkin has to say about it, but it would be amusing to hear her try to say it, anyway.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
What has surprised me about "50 Shades" is the way people are open about reading it. Is there any other work of erotic fiction that the hostesses of "Good Morning America" admit to reading on air?
I wonder what Camille Paglia has to say about this craze.
I don't think I wonder what Andrea Dworkin has to say about it, but it would be amusing to hear her try to say it, anyway.
It would be something of a miracle, given she's been dead for seven years!
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
I don't think I wonder what Andrea Dworkin has to say about it, but it would be amusing to hear her try to say it, anyway.
When someone who has been dead for 7 years starts talking, amusing is not exactly the word I would use to describe it, but to each his own. (Note that I only know she is dead because I looked her up two minutes ago.) (Cross post)
[ 05. June 2012, 19:48: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
I get regular feeds on my Facebook from both religious websites like Patheos and "Get a load of those crazy fundamentalists now" websites like Stuff Christian Culture Likes -- which is the only reason I know anything about this book. It appears to have a certain "fizz" quotient among women in repressive religious subcultures. I especially enjoy the "This is why this is such a terrible, pornographic book" reviews from people who seem to have taken great pains to read it -- maybe in the tub with a lit scented candle and some contraband chardonnay. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
I have so little time for reading that when I do catch an hour or so of alone time with a book I want to make it count, and not waste it on semi-literate dreck. ..which this book seems to be, from the reviews I've seen.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
It would be something of a miracle, given she's been dead for seven years!
As I implied. But that doesn't keep admirers from trying to channel her nevertheless.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
I'll just wait for the movie. (It's inevitable, right?) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Seriously, I'd love for someone who has read it to give some insight into the popularity. If "good Christians" aren't reading it, and high literary types wouldn't be caught dead, then who's this massive audience? And is anyone here brave enough to admit reading the whole thing and actually being complimentary of it?
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I am reminded of a recoding I once heard of interviews taken of people waiting in line to purchase copies of "Lady Chatterley's Lover" when it was first sold in UK bookstores. Most people were "interested in seeing what the fuss was about." One claimed to be buying it for someone else. Not a single one of them admitted that they were hoping that reading it would make them feel funny. (No, I'm not comparing 50 shades to D.H. Lawrence.)
But aside from repressive religious discussion boards and high-minded religious discussion boards, I think the story has been the fact that so many people are openly buying and reading erotic fiction. As I said, Lara Spencer and Robin Roberts talked about reading the book on national morning television (on Disney-owned ABC nonetheless). What (if anything) has changed so that women will openly talk about reading this kind of thing outside of their groups of girlfriends?
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I think a couple points of interest in the media are 1) the story was a spin-off of fan-fic, Twilight in particular and 2) as men like to look at erotica, women often like to read it. To women, often even a poor story with shallowly written characters to set up the sex scenes are better than no story at all.
I used to read fan-fic and wrote a few pieces including one that included erotica. Not the greatest, I'll admit, but probably better than a lot of Harlequin Spice; "better" if you accept the fact that I totally stole the characters from their original genre. It was fan-fic, ya know. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) There were a number of authors in the genre I read that I would put up against popular, professional, pot-boiler authors in composing a good yarn- again with the caveat that they wrote with the head start of already interesting characters and an interesting fictional world. And quite a bit of their erotica was -uh- quite stimulating.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
I don't know why these particular volumes are being touted as erotica or even good reading. An amusing column by Lucy Mangan in the Guardian goes over some old favourites that are much more raunchy (and better written) that have sat on library shelves for years without comment.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
I haven't read it (and probably won't since I don't want to shell out £3 for a kindle copy) but I have read a lot about it. I was most amused by this post: http://www.theawl.com/2012/06/50-shades-of-argh
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Be careful about writing anything that might remotely be construed as critical of BDSM. As I've recently learned the hard way, some of its devotees, whether out of touchiness or eagerness to try you on as a potential partner, could come out of the woodwork to assail you.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I haven't read it either but here's what I remember from listening to a discussion of it on Radio 4 a couple of weeks ago (which practically makes me an authority, no? ):
Fifty Shades was originally released as an e-book, not traditionally published. This in part explains its initial appeal - to people who want to read something sexy but don't want to be seen buying it. Now it that turns out that everyone's read it on the sly, it's become acceptable to be seen with.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I've not read the whole book but I read about 3 pages worth just to see what the hooplah was about. I'm told by people who have read it* that the 3 pages I read were about par for the course.
If those 3 pages were a short story, you would call it a very badly written, very unbelievable rape fantasy.
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*okay, person
[ 06. June 2012, 09:06: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
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Posted
I couldn't get beyond page 50 or so. It was like reading entries for the Bad Sex in Fiction Award.
But lacking the zaniness of Rowan Somerville's 2010 award-winning entry: 'Like a lepidopterist mounting a tough-skinned insect with a too blunt pin he screwed himself into her.'
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“I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.”
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Watching the popularity of this series really is an education in how "buzz" and "hype" work in the book selling industry. This weekend I had a signing for my own not-terribly-erotic book at the local outlet of a chain bookstore, and they parked me right next to the giant 50 Shades rack at the front of the story. It was interesting to see how people wandered by, their eyes drawn to the giant display. At least four or five people said to their shopping companions, "Oh, that's that 50 Shades book everyone's been talking about." Many of them didn't seem to know a thing about the book, not even that it was supposedly erotica -- just that they'd heard the title a lot and it had a huge display. Many of the people who were buying it were not people who I would have thought likely to be openly buying anything billed as erotica -- very average-looking readers who were picking it up as they might the latest thriller on the best-seller list or even the latest from Oprah's Book Club. It was very interesting and really does illustrate that the biggest factor in selling something seems to be to get people talking about it -- regardless of the quality of what's inside the package.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Am I the only one who can't wait to read the erotic fiction Lamb Chopped writes for her sister's entertainment? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Just. Ewww.
Though as award winners went, I quite enjoyed "Slither slither slither went the tongue."
That's my style of writing.
Hey! There's an idea for a new Circus game!
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
I have two questions:
Firstly, is it badly written in an entertaining way or badly written in a bad way?
Second, why is it that there's something about sex that brings out bad writing?
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
why is it that there's something about sex that brings out bad writing?
It's when it's just about cheap sex, physical passion devoid of context; and it's about that because most of the readers are people who don't read well enough to have much patience with preliminaries. And when that is what readers want, one doesn't need to be much of a writer to supply it. Capable authors won't want to bother (unless they are starving, and then they will use pseudonyms).
It reminds me of a suggestion to go down and see what's happening in the red light district. We soon learn that nothing's ever happening in the red light district. At least, nothing different happens there.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ecumaniac:
Bartolomeo, see what I mean?
Congratulations, Ecumaniac, on your second post in Purg in about a month, and your third in at least five years.
Big Brother is watching us. (Or is it Big Sister)?
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bartolomeo
Musical Engineer
# 8352
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
Firstly, is it badly written in an entertaining way or badly written in a bad way?
The nonsexual portions of it are written in a fashion best described as cringeworthy. The narrative exceeds my ability to suspend disbelief. I would characterize the writing as amateurish and shallow.
I guess that carries over into the more explicit passages.
quote:
Second, why is it that there's something about sex that brings out bad writing?
I don't know that it does. There are examples of well written erotica, for example the "Best women's erotica" series, which I believe is published annually. Anne Rice's "Sleeping beauty" trilogy is lacking in both plot and character depth but the writing itself isn't bad. Nancy Friday's series of books are reasonably well written.
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"Individual talent is too sporadic and unpredictable to be allowed any important part in the organization society" --Stuart Chase
Posts: 1291 | From: the American Midwest | Registered: Aug 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I read about 3 pages worth just to see what the hooplah was about.
Yeah, sure, just to see what the hooplah was about. We won't judge you.
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Many of the people who were buying it were not people who I would have thought likely to be openly buying anything billed as erotica -- very average-looking readers who were picking it up as they might the latest thriller on the best-seller list or even the latest from Oprah's Book Club.
I think we might all be surprised by what books the most average looking people have in their bedside tables.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I read about 3 pages worth just to see what the hooplah was about.
Yeah, sure, just to see what the hooplah was about. We won't judge you.
Actually I was thinking about writing a parody, but after reading those 3 pages I realized I couldn't read enough of it to write a parody without losing my will to live.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
quote:
Originally posted by ecumaniac:
Bartolomeo, see what I mean?
Congratulations, Ecumaniac, on your second post in Purg in about a month, and your third in at least five years.
Big Brother is watching us. (Or is it Big Sister)?
Well, as I post in here far more often, let me add my own . Because I know the Dead Horses thread you were seemingly scarred by and in my opinion your contributions were worth an , and you re-raising it here deserves a few more .
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
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Posted
It is very difficult to write any sex well, never mind erotica. On several writers' forums, there are password-protected sub-forums for professional writers of erotica and they are amongst the most hardworking sub-forums because erotica as a genre (probably not the best way to describe it, but still) is so hackneyed and lends itself to the unintentionally comic or ludicrous.
Bad sex writing doesn't leave the reader sexually aroused or tempted to read on, it leaves the reader bored, slightly revolted or laughing at the hero and heroine.
I suspect that 50 Shades managed to find a niche readership that doesn't read very much erotica and so sold as a novelty.
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“I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.”
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
A lot of publishers are very much in a tizzy about Mommy Porn and such; even before 50 Shades, there was some thought (yes, I know, bad time to not remember where you found the article) that ebooks were stimulating erotica sales on Amazon and such—something about the Kindle being the modern day plain brown wrapper. You could load up your smut, take it on the train, and read it on your way to and from work as the ultimate in mindless reading, and nobody would be any the wiser.
Speaking of "mindless," this might be one explanation for the popularity of 50 Shades and its ilk in the digital era—now that any chance of being found out is reduced and the stigma, at least among women, is going away, a perfectly brainless-but-validating form of fiction is entering the mainstream. After a long day of being In Charge, of thinking, and wearing yourself out, perhaps its nice to fantasize about someone else wanting you, being in control, and, well, not having to think or do anything. You can become an object, something that may have a few desires, but no tiring will to have to exercise. For a half-dead commuter, that's probably a pretty strong desire.
As for why so many sex scenes suck . . . meh, you try writing one. It either degrades into Naming of Parts or Giggly Euphamism, neither of which is at all sexy. If you don't want the Starr Report, you risk truly wretched and tortured purple prose. Foreplay and teasing, there's something you can describe.* What comes after it? Are there really that many ways to say "and then they fucked" better than "and then they fucked?" Perhaps BDSM is more fun/easier to describe (less risk of sounding Clinical or cutesy, more variety and action than "tab A goes in slots 1, 2, and/or 3"), explaining why a fair bit of erotica isn't entirely vanilla—and, well, an author can mix ATTF'd with shop-manual prose if the time comes.
*A friend of mine once had a creative writing teacher who tried to write erotic novels, but skipped over the sex scenes—you'd get foreplay, a section break, and then the afterglow. For some reason, there seems to be something wrong with this.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mary LA:
It is very difficult to write any sex well, never mind erotica. On several writers' forums, there are password-protected sub-forums for professional writers of erotica and they are amongst the most hardworking sub-forums because erotica as a genre (probably not the best way to describe it, but still) is so hackneyed and lends itself to the unintentionally comic or ludicrous.
The person I know who read 50 shades, a bookstore clerk who reads voluminously, said that the sex was the least bad part of the book. The parts between the sex, in her opinion, where horrifically, screamingly bad prose.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
The SNL Kindle ad parody is brilliant.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mary LA:
It is very difficult to write any sex well, never mind erotica. On several writers' forums, there are password-protected sub-forums for professional writers of erotica and they are amongst the most hardworking sub-forums because erotica as a genre (probably not the best way to describe it, but still) is so hackneyed and lends itself to the unintentionally comic or ludicrous.
Bad sex writing doesn't leave the reader sexually aroused or tempted to read on, it leaves the reader bored, slightly revolted or laughing at the hero and heroine.
I suspect that 50 Shades managed to find a niche readership that doesn't read very much erotica and so sold as a novelty.
I hope I don't gross anyone out here, but in married life I have come to learn that actual sex can be unintentionally comic. Maybe in a different way than bad erotica can be unintentionally comic, but when two people who love each other very much are doing what people who love each other do, funny, clumsy things happen. By demanding constantly hot, never awkward or clumsy sex from our erotica, we pretty much insure that it ends up being something rather different from actual sex.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
True enough but the purpose of erotica is no more to portray "real sex" than the purpose of romance novels is to give a guide to real relationships.
It's escapism.
I haven't read the book in question because a) it's based on fanfic and Twilight fanfic at that and b) there's too much free stuff available - much of which is of course equally bad but enough of it is "good enough" that it's not worth paying for stuff like this.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
quote:
Originally posted by ecumaniac:
Bartolomeo, see what I mean?
Congratulations, Ecumaniac, on your second post in Purg in about a month, and your third in at least five years.
Big Brother is watching us. (Or is it Big Sister)?
If you want to get personal, then I'll see you in Hell.
Otherwise we can get back to discussing the book then, shall we?
I've succumbed, because of this thread - I downloaded the things yesterday, and will load them on to my e-reader for weekend train reading. If they turn out to be as awful as people are saying, at least I've got my Doctor Who fanfic on the kindle already.
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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windsofchange
Shipmate
# 13000
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Posted
I read the free sample on my Kindle after hearing the book being discussed by several people whose opinions I normally respect as "classy", "sophisticated", etc.
All I can say is, if I'm going to spend any more of my valuable reading time on porn, I'm going to try and find something a LOT better written!
Luther said it best: if you're going to sin, sin boldly!
[ 22. June 2012, 22:42: Message edited by: windsofchange ]
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on." (owner of Coney Island Freak Show, upon learning someone outbid him for a 5-legged puppy)
Posts: 153 | From: Reseda, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I've noticed that at our local Chapters and Coles the newest thing, in the last couple of weeks, is a display shelf with "If you liked 50 Shades, try reading ..." and several erotic novels (sometimes with a "For Mature Readers Only" note. So I guess the popularity of this series is bringing erotica out of the closet and to the front of the bookstore shelves. Opinions will vary as to whether this is a good or bad thing, of course.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
Not read it so can't really comment with full authority.
I'm interested in the people bemoaning it's popularity on the grounds that it's anti feminist to want to imagine being dominated. It's a fantasy. It's escapism. And....therefor not real? Isn't that a pretty simple concept?
Some of my female friends enjoy being dominated in bed and at the same time hold very feminst views. It really isn't a mutually exclusive deal.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bartolomeo:
1) Why is this book popular?
I haven't read it, and can't judge its inherent merits, but it seems to me that it must be the erotic novel which at the moment is the easiest to buy and read without embarrassment. And that's due to marketing. It's displayed in bookshops with novels, not with top-shelf erotica, marked as a best-seller, advertised on the sides of buses and has been bought and read by many people.
Lots of people are interested in sex, but there are social taboos about it. Books which are in substance erotica, but which can get away with being sold as slightly racy mainstream novels appeal to the interest without invoking the embarrassment.
If I was going to go into WH Smiths and buy an erotic book, then it might well be Fifty Shades simply because it is more normal and less odd to buy that one than any other that they sell.
quote:
3) Should Christians avoid reading it on moral grounds?
Not, I think, just because its about sex. I don't think there is anything in Christian morality that ought to make sex an unmentionable subject.
Christian ethics, though, do teach that there is such a thing as a sin of lust. While there is no universally agreed upon definition of what counts as lust, the principle that there are sexual thoughts and attitudes which it is wrong to entertain is mainstream Christian teaching.
I would say that it is certainly possible that some erotic writing might cause some Christians to devalue or objectify their partners (or potential partners), or cause them to feel guilt and shame which tends to blight their lives, or which could lead them to putting their personal sexual satisfaction at too high a place in their priority list. Those people can and should avoid reading material which is likely to harm them. They should probably not try make 'no erotica' a universal rule for Christians, or judge others for their different opinions on what is harmful or moral.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
I'll tell you what's really frightening--supposed Christian erotica! I read this story one time... and dammit, I haven't been successful in finding it again but maybe the author took it off the website... anyway, it was a very badly written erotica story involving a man, his wife, a stranger in the park, and... Jesus! I kid you not.
The man and his wife drive to a park late at night and they proceed to get it on in full view of a jogger who sees what's going on, tries not to stare and then is invited to "sample the goods" briefly while the husband watches. The dialogue is ridiculous but then it gets downright bizarre as the man begins to pray to Jesus, out loud while the stranger is having his way with the man's wife. Right before she has an orgasm, the man makes the stranger stop, takes his place and he and his wife have a "holy orgasm". The wife tells her husband that she was blessed by Jesus to share her orgasm with her husband and the stranger.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Like FanFic on par with the ones Trek fans write, making Kirk and Spock lovers.
Am I the only one who generally skips the sex scenes in any book? It's the lead-up I would actually have any interest in. All but a very, very few sex scenes inevitably descend into a combination of 1) anatomy lesson, and 2) groping for a better body part vocabulary.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Couldn't you have used a flowery euphemism for 'groping'? ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
True enough but the purpose of erotica is no more to portray "real sex" than the purpose of romance novels is to give a guide to real relationships.
It's escapism.
Some researchers believe romance novels, romantic comedies and the like are actually harmful to real relationships, while others argue it is merely escapism.
Not sure myself, though I have observed many people are more influenced by what they view as fiction than they realize. Discuss the law with people outside the legal profession and what you hear will likely owe more to fiction on the telly than a real courtroom. And, of course, if we did not believe fiction, politicians would be forced to find honest work.
[ 25. June 2012, 15:00: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Spectacle. Novelty.
Many of us check out all sorts of things about which 'buzz' has been created. This has nothing whatever to do with merit.
One problem is that people adopt some of the ideas within some buzzed about things, thinking they are reasonable. Although probably due to frank pornography (which arguably this book is), there is increased frequency of female groin shaving, oral and anal sex since the 1950s Kinsey studies.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
True enough but the purpose of erotica is no more to portray "real sex" than the purpose of romance novels is to give a guide to real relationships.
It's escapism.
Some researchers believe romance novels, romantic comedies and the like are actually harmful to real relationships, while others argue it is merely escapism.
Not sure myself, though I have observed many people are more influenced by what they view as fiction than they realize. Discuss the law with people outside the legal profession and what you hear will likely owe more to fiction on the telly than a real courtroom.
Indeed and I've often wanted to make that point when people talk about fantasy in the context of porn and sex. Some people worry about the effect viewing/reading porn may have on young men's expectations for example, but you rarely hear people talk about how there's a similar gap between fantasy and reality when it comes to romance. And I suspect the gap there is larger.
It's also subtler because I think porn is often a more obvious "fake" situation.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
enjoyed this meme spreading on facebook:
one shade of gray
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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