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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Have a grievous Lent!
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Pseudonym
Apprentice
# 16879
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Posted
What's an appropriate greeting for Lent. I'd wish someone a Merry Christmas, and greet them with the news of Christ's victory in Easter...but it sounds strange to wish someone a Happy Lent!
Am I being too sensitive?
Posts: 9 | From: NYC | Registered: Jan 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
We say, "Have a blessed Lent."
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pseudonym:
What's an appropriate greeting for Lent. I'd wish someone a Merry Christmas, and greet them with the news of Christ's victory in Easter...but it sounds strange to wish someone a Happy Lent!
I don't think wishing someone a "happy Lent" is inappropriate, unless we're seeing Lent as a re-enactment, which it isn't (pretending it's all happening again, right now). The victory has already been won, so I believe one can legitimately be happy in Lent, and I wish that for all of you.
But in terms of spending Lent contemplating the depth of our sin, Jesus' sacrifice, and God's love, I'd wish a very holy Lent indeed.
[ 15. February 2013, 13:33: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
In the liturgy we used on Ash Wednesday the priest commended us to a holy Lent.
Though when I imagine greeting someone with "Holy Lent" the word "Batman" somehow sneaks in after it.
[ 15. February 2013, 14:38: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I heard the Roman Catholic liturgy calls it a "Joyous Lent," and I'm hardly going to complain about a little poetic paradox.
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Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Our former vicar understood choir humour very well. So, regardless of what the Liturgy said or whatever greeting was suitable in the church service itself, he would arrive in the choir vestry at the end, with a twinkle in his eye and wish us all a 'Happy Lent'. There were plenty of other times in the year when you knew he was only able to keep a firm lid on it during the service because he knew that, a few moments later, he could trot next door to the vestry and say whatever he really wanted to say. (And all was well as long as he remembered to remove his microphone first!!)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I heard the Roman Catholic liturgy calls it a "Joyous Lent," and I'm hardly going to complain about a little poetic paradox.
I don't believe that term is in the missal.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
The Ceremonial of Bishops describes it as "the ascent to the Holy Mountain of Easter," which is my new favorite image for Lent.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If Lent is about getting closer to God, it should be 'joyous'.
This is the logic that tells a new widow she should be happy because her husband is in heaven.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
In view of Ash Wednesday: have a dusty Lent.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I heard the Roman Catholic liturgy calls it a "Joyous Lent," and I'm hardly going to complain about a little poetic paradox.
You could also go for Brıght Sadness.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If Lent is about getting closer to God, it should be 'joyous'.
This is the logic that tells a new widow she should be happy because her husband is in heaven.
No - how about getting closer to God, like a husband getting closer to wife etc.? It's about deepening a relationship by having more quality time together.
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
How about getting closer to God by sharing in His sorrow? Telling people they should be joyous in any occasion is hubris.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
I used to wish a Jewish colleague of mine "Have an easy fast" before Yom Kippur. She had taught me this many years ago. Lent need not be a morose time of starvation. Hopefully a person's fast is enough for discipline, for turning one's thoughts, words, and deeds toward matters more important. If a person doesn't have an easy fast, and instead becomes preoccupied with hunger and want for food, then it seems that the discipline has lost its true purpose.
I'll simply wish my fellow Ecclesantists "Have an easy fast."
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Holiness and blessedness is also about getting closer to God. I like 'have a Holy Lent'.
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
How about getting closer to God by sharing in His sorrow? Telling people they should be joyous in any occasion is hubris.
The mystics see this as joyous
Okay now you're saying, "You should find this joyous because the mystics do." Is it not possible that maybe the mystics are WAY beyond where somebody is right now, and telling them they should be at point 400 when they're only at point 7 is a little ridiculous, not to mention callous? Your posts here appear to betray a "one size fits all" notion of Lent and indeed of spiritual growth in general.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
If a person doesn't have an easy fast, and instead becomes preoccupied with hunger and want for food, then it seems that the discipline has lost its true purpose.
A little bit of black-or-white thinking is going on here. Either something's easy, or you're preoccupied with hunger and food. There's a hell of a lot of real estate in the middle there.
Something that's easy doesn't grow you. It doesn't have to be preoccupying to be hard enough to generate real growth. Eating all I want is easy. Fasting is a discipline, and things that are easy don't require discipline.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
I would think what we all need to have a fruitful Lent is grace, so how about 'Have a grace-filled Lent'?
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Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Something that's easy doesn't grow you. It doesn't have to be preoccupying to be hard enough to generate real growth. Eating all I want is easy. Fasting is a discipline, and things that are easy don't require discipline.
That seems a bit punitive and medieval. Real growth can definitely occur without physical suffering. Taking on a fast at all is an act of discipline, but it need not be tragic. It is my hope that people who take on a Lenten fast, even if they willingly take on a respectfully challenging fast (as with your Orthodox brethren), will ultimately find it to have been edifying yet easy. Setting out to begin with an easy fast? That's a bit of a different story.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Real growth can definitely occur without physical suffering.
Capıtal B, Bullshıt.
Jesus offers you the Cross.
ETA; Sınce when ıs medıaeval perjoratıve?
[ 17. February 2013, 18:56: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
Hosting
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Real growth can definitely occur without physical suffering.
Capıtal B, Bullshıt.
Jesus offers you the Cross.
ETA; Sınce when ıs medıaeval perjoratıve?
I'm thinking a little more engagement with the issues would be more conducive to the irenic tones of this discussion. Think on these things.
/ Hosting
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Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Hosting
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Real growth can definitely occur without physical suffering.
Capıtal B, Bullshıt.
Jesus offers you the Cross.
ETA; Sınce when ıs medıaeval perjoratıve?
I'm thinking a little more engagement with the issues would be more conducive to the irenic tones of this discussion. Think on these things.
/ Hosting
Silent Acolyte, when you figure out how to work out your own salvation, let me know. Until then, suffer to your heart's content. Perhaps you might consider a fast from fasting. You just might experience some growth from that experience, too. In the meantime, I'll continue wishing you an easy fast.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Of all the problems in Christianity in the West these days, excessive fasting is the last. If you ask me, we feast so perpetually that feasting has lost all meaning.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Something that's easy doesn't grow you. It doesn't have to be preoccupying to be hard enough to generate real growth. Eating all I want is easy. Fasting is a discipline, and things that are easy don't require discipline.
That seems a bit punitive and medieval. Real growth can definitely occur without physical suffering. Taking on a fast at all is an act of discipline, but it need not be tragic. It is my hope that people who take on a Lenten fast, even if they willingly take on a respectfully challenging fast (as with your Orthodox brethren), will ultimately find it to have been edifying yet easy. Setting out to begin with an easy fast? That's a bit of a different story.
1. Challenging but easy is an oxymoron.
2. Again you pit "easy" against "suffering" -- there's enough real estate between those to drive a province through.
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I am wondering if one's view of Lent shows one's view of God.
if God is love, then Lent will be lovely.
if God is a judging tyrant, then Lent will be horrible.
Since you won't answer me I will assume you cannot. Don't expect me to answer you.
[ 17. February 2013, 21:37: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I am wondering if one's view of Lent shows one's view of God.
if God is love, then Lent will be lovely.
if God is a judging tyrant, then Lent will be horrible.
Possibility 3: God is love, but we really are miserable wretches with no life in us, and turning around is therefore going to be hard.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Possibility 3: God is love, but we really are miserable wretches with no life in us, and turning around is therefore going to be hard.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I am wondering if one's view of Lent shows one's view of God.
if God is love, then Lent will be lovely.
if God is a judging tyrant, then Lent will be horrible.
Since you won't answer me I will assume you cannot. Don't expect me to answer you.
Sounds a bit angry.
Why do you assuje these questions were directed at you?
Why assume I could respond to your post immediately instead of preaching last night, going out for a meal, going to sleep etc.?
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Sounds a bit angry.
Take it to Hell.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Hosting ON
Whatever our Lord intended us to do during Lent, I'm pretty certain that this ill-tempered altercation was NOT it. You are all experienced posters here and frankly you should know better. Enough with the tangents, the arrogant assertions, the junior Hosting and anything even approaching a personal attack.
Hosting OFF
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Our pastor is emphasizing Lent as a season for letting go of our demons to allow God's love to give rebirth so we can be the people God wants us to be.
So, in a sense, there is some grief because many of us are very comfortable with our demons.
There is some fear because we do not know what God wants us to be.
There is doubt in being able go accept the promise.
But there is a sense of hope too, in that we are in the process of being renewed.
As we move through lent, I would say joy begins to build. It reaches its fruition in at Easter
I would say an appropriate praise would be: "Have a Good Lent." It will be good if we can let go of the demons some (I don't think it will ever be a completed event, this side of eternity) and we can become more of what God wants us to be.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Bos Loquax
Shipmate
# 16602
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pseudonym:
What's an appropriate greeting for Lent. I'd wish someone a Merry Christmas, and greet them with the news of Christ's victory in Easter...but it sounds strange to wish someone a Happy Lent!
Am I being too sensitive?
After taking some links from another page some days ago (I'd been originally reading about either the Jesus Prayer or fasting in different traditions), I came across an Eastern Orthodox page that mentioned joy in connection with Lent.
I don't remember enough about what I'd read to find it again, but a more general search yields a page from the Orthodox Church in America about Great Lent.
quote:
In the Orthodox Church, Great Lent is not a season of morbidity and gloominess. On the contrary, it is a time of joyfulness and purification.
<snip>
It is our repentance that God desires, not our remorse. We sorrow for our sins, but we do so in the joy of God’s mercy. We mortify our flesh, but we do so in the joy of our resurrection into life everlasting.
I'm not necessarily encouraging "happy Lent!" or even "joyful Lent!" greetings (and there doesn't seem to be at least a widespread Orthodox greeting for Lent). Even so, there's a perspective that I haven't much heard (though I've come to something like it through my "own" means, like thinking about the nature of Christian joy and stuff).
Posts: 58 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2011
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Brother Roger of Taize said that Lent is a "festival of forgiveness".
"Have a joyous Lent" can sound more like a demand than a wish, I mean, ones reflections on the Passion of Christ and ones own failings won't exactly always inspire joy. The issue of forgiveness, for example, doesn't necessarily bring joy when one is confronted with ones own issues with it. The pressure to be joyful can bring stress and can reflect shallow thinking.
I have not understood anyone here saying that we should suffer, and God wants this suffering. What I understand is that Lent means reflections on the Passion and on ones self, both in a time of discipline; this may therefore lead to difficult times, but life is not without difficult times. I understand the difficult times to not be the goal, rather a consequence of setting time to reflect more.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
I like that phrase, somewhere in the treasure house of the liturgy of the western churches, which says something like:
quote:
every year you give us this joyful season of Lent in which our spirits are renewed
Do you know that? If you do you probably can quote it better than I, and can say where it comes from. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Arch Anglo Catholic
Shipmate
# 15181
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Posted
Ours is nice a simple:
Have a Holy Lent and a Happy Easter!
Job done.
Posts: 144 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
What I notice is 2 things. The first is the majority of people. Good Friday creates a long weekend, and depending on workplace, Monday is also a statutory holiday (some workplaces have Easter Monday in July when the weather is summery). These folks greet with "what are you doing for Easter?", with the conversation invariably involving discussion of travels to visit with family. Very little to do with anything except the extra days off.
The second group generally asks "what are you doing for Lent?", and really mean "do you want to know what I've given up for Lent?". The best answer to this second group is to try to steer the conversation toward what you'd answer for the first possible type of question: "we're going to visit the wife's cousin's half-brother's second cousin by adoption".
I have never heard anyone in western Canada wish anyone anything specifically for Lent. I suspect regional variation accounts for much. Or we're just not very observant nor pious.
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