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Source: (consider it) Thread: What Does Judaeo-Christian Mean?
Kaplan Corday
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The expression Judaeo-Christian is religiously meaningful for Christians, though Jews are often unhappy about it for obvious reasons.

When it is used in a broader context, however, as in statements such as “Western culture is based on Judaeo-Christian values” (as, allegedly, opposed to other cultures, such as Confucianism, communism or Islam) it sounds good, but does it stand up to analysis?

Defenders of the idea of J-C values, if asked to list them, would probably include democracy, liberalism, justice and the importance of the individual.

But how uniquely and distinctively J-C are these values?

Democracy is rooted in pagan Greece rather than the Bible, in which it is practically non-existent.

Its relationship with Calvinism is a matter of historical debate.

The argument that democracy is the safest political system given humanity’s fallen condition has much to commend it, but was probably an ex post facto justification on the part of Christians who had already decided that they supported democracy anyway.

Liberalism’s roots are in Enlightenment rationalism rather than the Bible or Christian theology.

Justice derives from a number of sources, of which the J-C tradition is just one.

The value of the individual can certainly be supported on the grounds that each person is unique, created in God’s image, and died for by Jesus, but the Bible and theology seem to contain at least as many corporate as individualistic images, and again it might well have been an ex post facto attempt to provide J-C justification for modern, secular, liberal individualism.

I am not a cultural relativist, and I actually believe that Western culture and its values is the least bad on offer – I’m just not convinced it is as J-C as claimed.

[ 04. March 2013, 07:56: Message edited by: Kaplan Corday ]

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Stetson
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I'm not sure of the exact origin of the term, but I've entertained the theory "Judeo-Christian" is just the right-winger's politically-correct update of "Christian", as in "Our society was founded on [Judeo-]Christian values like respect for the family and the sanctity of life". Because they think Jews would be offended at hearing just "Christian" by itself.

Granted, those right-wingers derive their sexual morality largely from the Old Testament(well, read selectively), not the New, so maybe there is some rationale for the more inclusive term. I'm guessing, though, that their ideological ancestors 150 years ago didn't feel obligated to throw in the "Judeo" part.

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Bostonman
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Liberalism's roots are in the ferocious and destructive religious warfare of the Thirty Years' War, which gave rise to ideas of religious freedom of conscience in the Enlightenment. So liberalism, at least, has a very real—albeit regrettable—Christian heritage.

I would say that there may be a few other shared values. Both religions (at least in theory) are egalitarian, rather than hierarchical, for example, especially in the historically-dominant American forms of Christianity. As opposed to something like Confucian thought, which is largely focused on hierarchies.

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Lothiriel
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To my mind, "Judeo-Christian values" refers more or less to the tenets set out in the Hebrew scriptures and upheld in the Christian scriptures, as well as in the respective traditions of each faith: the ten commandments; the Shema and the V'ahavta (what Jesus referred to as the two great commandments); a framework of social and economic justice that respects the dignity and worth of each individual as laid out in the Jewish law, which was preached by the Hebrew prophets, Jesus, and the early church (and which is very different from liberalism's notion that individual liberty and economic power give one the right to enrich oneself by exploiting others -- I would say that liberalism applied to social and economic matters is NOT consistent with Judeo-Christian values, despite attempts to make it seem so).

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Evensong
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Are we gettting confused about liberal theology and liberal politics? They're rather different.

As for the OP - wot Lothiriel said

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Lothiriel
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I don't think any of the posts so far have referred to liberal Christian theology -- as far as I can see, the liberalism mentioned has been of the classical liberal ideology that, among other things, places individual liberty and the "invisible hand" of the economy above all else.

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Justinian
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What 'Judaeo-Christian' means in my experience is "I'm going to try to claim a wide heritage despite speaking for and even appropriating the name of a heritage I do not belong to against the wishes of those that do." Or in short "I'm a blowhard parading my ignorance of groups other than mine." As Kaplan Corday notes, Jews are generally unhappy with the description.

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Crœsos
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I believe the term was initially popularized as an anti-Nazi talking point, to highlight the unity of the West against fascism. After the war, the term was adopted by a certain newer flavor of American conservative (think Bill Buckley and the National Review) to mean both "traditional religiosity" and to distance themselves from the more traditionally anti-Semitic strains of American conservatism (e.g. the John Birch Society).

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Mere Nick
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Like so many other terms, it depends on who is using it. Here is one Jewish guy's perception of the term.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Like so many other terms, it depends on who is using it. Here is one Jewish guy's perception of the term.

Dennis Prager is a tool. In an article that could be regarded as complementary to the one to which you linked, here's Prager [warning: pop-ups] explaining why "Judeo-Christian" is the boundary of American civil life and why anyone on the outside (in this case, Muslim Congressman Keith Ellison) should acknowledge the supremacy of Judeo-Christianity as a condition of holding elected office.

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Amos

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I believe the term was initially popularized as an anti-Nazi talking point, to highlight the unity of the West against fascism. After the war, the term was adopted by a certain newer flavor of American conservative (think Bill Buckley and the National Review) to mean both "traditional religiosity" and to distance themselves from the more traditionally anti-Semitic strains of American conservatism (e.g. the John Birch Society).

This is my sense of it too. One used to hear 'Judeo-Christian' as meaning 'Christian, but we want you to know that we're not anti-Semitic' or, on the rare occasions when one heard it from Jews, 'We want you to know that we don't all live in a ghetto. We're all Americans now.'

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Like so many other terms, it depends on who is using it. Here is one Jewish guy's perception of the term.

Though his article leads up to a rant against gay marriage, I agree where he says
quote:
The second meaning of Judeo-Christian is a belief in the biblical G-d of Israel,
Christians have been grafted into God's covenant with Jews, according to Romans - so we are the same religion - a continuum, not something radically new.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Christians have been grafted into God's covenant with Jews, according to Romans - so we are the same religion - a continuum, not something radically new.

The Mormons take a similar position, regarding themselves as the restorers of the "true" Christian church rather than a new innovation. Most Jews regard being told they're just incomplete Christians the same way most Christians regard being told they need to accept the Book of Mormon to be "true" Christians.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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I think it means "weird like me", as in western, educated, idustrialised, rich, democratic. You could put allegedly before at least democratic and often educated, but even our poor are rich by any standard.

This term wants to claim superiority, label itself as traditional when it is invention once hatred of Jews was truly passé, and has always had potential to be exclusionary. Whenever I hear the term "Judeo-Christian" it seems certain that someone is either attacking something they don't like or defending some form of prejudice.

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ken
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"What Does Judaeo-Christian Mean?"

It means that the person who is using the phrase doesn't really know much about either Judaism or Christianity, and doesn't like Muslims.

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Mere Nick
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What someone else may mean when they use it is one thing, what I hear until shown otherwise in the conversation with that person is that "Judeo-Christian" means a person's understanding of the world is heavily influenced by both the old and new testament. Some may be just the OT, some just the NT, but they both are normally found inside the same book cover.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
What someone else may mean when they use it is one thing, what I hear until shown otherwise in the conversation with that person is that "Judeo-Christian" means a person's understanding of the world is heavily influenced by both the old and new testament. Some may be just the OT, some just the NT, but they both are normally found inside the same book cover.

And if they're not, it's because Jews are "abnormal" and only print the OT portions. [Roll Eyes]

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
What someone else may mean when they use it is one thing, what I hear until shown otherwise in the conversation with that person is that "Judeo-Christian" means a person's understanding of the world is heavily influenced by both the old and new testament. Some may be just the OT, some just the NT, but they both are normally found inside the same book cover.

And if they're not, it's because Jews are "abnormal" and only print the OT portions. [Roll Eyes]
I'll put up $5 that says the vast majority of OTs in this country are inside a book cover with an NT, as well.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
What someone else may mean when they use it is one thing, what I hear until shown otherwise in the conversation with that person is that "Judeo-Christian" means a person's understanding of the world is heavily influenced by both the old and new testament. Some may be just the OT, some just the NT, but they both are normally found inside the same book cover.

I wish Mere Nick, you were right, and I admire your giving people benefit of the doubt on it. I will try to be more optimistic as a consequence to suspend some of my rude jadedness.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I'll put up $5 that says the vast majority of OTs in this country are inside a book cover with an NT, as well.

Probably so. And the vast majority of prayers offered in the U.S. are probably directed to "Jesus Christ". Which begs the question of how "Judeo" the description "Judeo-Christian" actually is. After all, if Jews are abnormal freaks who can't pray right and use an inexplicably truncated scripture, why lump them in together with "normal" Christians?

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I'll put up $5 that says the vast majority of OTs in this country are inside a book cover with an NT, as well.

Probably so. And the vast majority of prayers offered in the U.S. are probably directed to "Jesus Christ". Which begs the question of how "Judeo" the description "Judeo-Christian" actually is. After all, if Jews are abnormal freaks who can't pray right and use an inexplicably truncated scripture, why lump them in together with "normal" Christians?
I don't know anyone who looks at their bible and figures the vast majority of it comes from "abnormal freaks" so I'm curious as to why you do.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I don't know anyone who looks at their bible and figures the vast majority of it comes from "abnormal freaks" so I'm curious as to why you do.

Mere Nick, meet Mere Nick:

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Some may be just the OT, some just the NT, but they both are normally found inside the same book cover.

You're the one who claimed that putting both testaments together is "normal", which necessarily implies that anyone who doesn't is abnormal. This comes back to the question of the term "Judeo-Christian" and whether it means anything other than "Christian".

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I don't know anyone who looks at their bible and figures the vast majority of it comes from "abnormal freaks" so I'm curious as to why you do.

Mere Nick, meet Mere Nick:

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Some may be just the OT, some just the NT, but they both are normally found inside the same book cover.

You're the one who claimed that putting both testaments together is "normal", which necessarily implies that anyone who doesn't is abnormal. This comes back to the question of the term "Judeo-Christian" and whether it means anything other than "Christian".

"Freaks" is your word and you said "probably so" when I stated I would bet you would find most OTs in this nation partnered with the NT. Christians consider the Jewish scriptures to be scriptures, as well.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Christians have been grafted into God's covenant with Jews, according to Romans - so we are the same religion - a continuum, not something radically new.

The Mormons take a similar position, regarding themselves as the restorers of the "true" Christian church rather than a new innovation. Most Jews regard being told they're just incomplete Christians the same way most Christians regard being told they need to accept the Book of Mormon to be "true" Christians.
Jews do right to protest at being regarded as 'incomplete'. Their covenant was and is for all time. Christians have been grafted ON. We needed grafting. they didn't. That's why mainstream Christians are reluctant to proseltyse Jews. They don't need it because they are not incomplete.

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Pomona
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Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

[ 05. March 2013, 21:07: Message edited by: Jade Constable ]

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Amos

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

Wow. Ever thought of a career in interfaith dialogue, Jade?

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Pomona
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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

Wow. Ever thought of a career in interfaith dialogue, Jade?
[Confused]

Jesus makes it pretty clear that He is the way to God. He doesn't say that this doesn't apply to Jewish people, hence the Jewish disciples forming the early church around the concept of Jesus' Messiahdom. So, it seems reasonable to say that only Christians form the Body, because....they do. I think that Jewish people along with all other people will be saved eventually, absolutely - but that doesn't make them part of the *current* Church. The idea that Jews don't need their own Messiah is baffling.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Christians consider the Jewish scriptures to be scriptures, as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

I'll take both of the above as tacit admissions that the "Judeo" part of "Judeo-Christian" is just there for hollow PR purposes. "Judeo-Christian" just means "Christian".

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Jews do right to protest at being regarded as 'incomplete'. Their covenant was and is for all time. Christians have been grafted ON. We needed grafting. they didn't. That's why mainstream Christians are reluctant to proseltyse Jews. They don't need it because they are not incomplete.

And yet "completed Jews" is one of the favorite euphemisms for Jewish converts to Christianity in certain evangelical circles. Google the phrase if you don't believe me.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
[qb]Christians consider the Jewish scriptures to be scriptures, as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

I'll take both of the above as tacit admissions that the "Judeo" part of "Judeo-Christian" is just there for hollow PR purposes. "Judeo-Christian" just means "Christian".
Take it how ever you want. To not use it is to tell the Jews that the OT does not have a strong influence on us and that they don't have anything to say the rest need to hear.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Take it how ever you want. To not use it is to tell the Jews that the OT does not have a strong influence on us and that they don't have anything to say the rest need to hear.

Right. Best not to get them confused with that large and prominent group of Christians who reject the Old Testament as scripture. I can see how that might be confusing. Oh wait! [Roll Eyes]

Despite what you seem to be claiming, referring to someone as a "Christian" does not carry the implication that person rejects the Old Testament.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Pomona
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Christians consider the Jewish scriptures to be scriptures, as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

I'll take both of the above as tacit admissions that the "Judeo" part of "Judeo-Christian" is just there for hollow PR purposes. "Judeo-Christian" just means "Christian".

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Jews do right to protest at being regarded as 'incomplete'. Their covenant was and is for all time. Christians have been grafted ON. We needed grafting. they didn't. That's why mainstream Christians are reluctant to proseltyse Jews. They don't need it because they are not incomplete.

And yet "completed Jews" is one of the favorite euphemisms for Jewish converts to Christianity in certain evangelical circles. Google the phrase if you don't believe me.

I never actually use the phrase Judeo-Christian, not at all. I don't think it is a helpful phrase to use, I just talk about Abrahamic religion.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged
Justinian
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# 5357

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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Take it how ever you want. To not use it is to tell the Jews that the OT does not have a strong influence on us and that they don't have anything to say the rest need to hear.

1: Not true at all.
2: I'm going to trust my Jewish friends on whether they find it a slightly offensive term before trusting a random non-Jew. And they do find it slightly offensive.

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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

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Alogon
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# 5513

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The Jews have contributed to science, medicine, law, academia, finance, and the arts out of all proportion to their numbers. I'm quite happy to say that our culture is Judaeo-Christian thanks to these contributions alone, and mystified as to why they would rather not be given credit where credit is due. We would be much the poorer without them. Whether Christians consider themselves bound by the "Old Testament" is relatively beside the point.

Certainly we owe a great deal to the ancient Greeks as well (which the proletariat tend to forget). But our case-law tradition s distinctively Anglo-American, and my hunch is that it never could have developed so far but for minds honed by the Babylonian Talmud.

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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.

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Mere Nick
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# 11827

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quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Take it how ever you want. To not use it is to tell the Jews that the OT does not have a strong influence on us and that they don't have anything to say the rest need to hear.

1: Not true at all.
2: I'm going to trust my Jewish friends on whether they find it a slightly offensive term before trusting a random non-Jew. And they do find it slightly offensive.

The link I provided is to an article by a Jewish dude. He doesn't have a problem. On the other hand, it isn't a term one hears very often, anyway. I'll be stopping off at the pub on the way home for a brew and I strongly doubt I'll hear it there, for example.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Mere Nick
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# 11827

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quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
[QB] The Jews have contributed to science, medicine, law, academia, finance, and the arts out of all proportion to their numbers. I'm quite happy to say that our culture is Judaeo-Christian thanks to these contributions alone, and mystified as to why they would rather not be given credit where credit is due. We would be much the poorer without them. Whether Christians consider themselves bound by the "Old Testament" is relatively beside the point.

I don't consider myself really bound by it, but the OT certainly helps to make the NT more understandable.

quote:
Certainly we owe a great deal to the ancient Greeks as well (which the proletariat tend to forget). But our case-law tradition s distinctively Anglo-American, and my hunch is that it never could have developed so far but for minds honed by the Babylonian Talmud.
The Greeks make better food, at least, istm.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Net Spinster
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# 16058

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quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
The Jews have contributed to science, medicine, law, academia, finance, and the arts out of all proportion to their numbers. I'm quite happy to say that our culture is Judaeo-Christian thanks to these contributions alone, and mystified as to why they would rather not be given credit where credit is due. We would be much the poorer without them. Whether Christians consider themselves bound by the "Old Testament" is relatively beside the point.

Certainly we owe a great deal to the ancient Greeks as well (which the proletariat tend to forget). But our case-law tradition s distinctively Anglo-American, and my hunch is that it never could have developed so far but for minds honed by the Babylonian Talmud.

That is odd given that Jews weren't allowed to be lawyers/judges in the Anglo-American court systems until quite late in its development (19th century) and most of them probably weren't trained in the Talmudic tradition. And I suspect on the whole non-Jewish lawyers rarely studied the Talmud much less in the way that most Jews studied it.

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spinner of webs

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Those who have rejected the Son have also rejected the Father, though. I tend towards universalism and do not proselytize anyone let alone Jewish people, but certainly Jews who have explicitly rejected Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body just as all of those who reject Jesus as Lord are not part of the Body.

So God is antisemitic too?

The church that has done the most work on Judaism, the Roman Catholic Church, does not believe in proselytising Jews. indeed, Judaism does not come under its interfaith department but its ecumenism dept. There is ONE covenant and both Jews and Christians are in it already.

quote:
Levada, who replaced Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger after he became Pope Benedict XVI in 2005, is responsible for elucidating the Church's theology.
According to Rosen, Levada made it clear that there was intrinsic value in conducting interfaith dialogue with Jews even without any ulterior motives of proselytizing.
He also made a clear distinction between "witnessing," or sharing the New Testament, and proselytizing, which was wrong. ....As a result of reforms in the Catholic Church begun during the Second Vatican Conference, Catholicism's theology vis-Ã -vis Judaism changed. The Jews were seen to have an eternal covenant with God.

Jerusalem Post February 2, 2012.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
[QB] The Jews have contributed to science, medicine, law, academia, finance, and the arts out of all proportion to their numbers. I'm quite happy to say that our culture is Judaeo-Christian thanks to these contributions alone, and mystified as to why they would rather not be given credit where credit is due. We would be much the poorer without them. Whether Christians consider themselves bound by the "Old Testament" is relatively beside the point.

I don't consider myself really bound by it, but the OT certainly helps to make the NT more understandable.
In Matthew 5, Jesus said that he was not about destroying Torah but filling it out - he made its demands more stringent, not less.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Jesus makes it pretty clear that He is the way to God. He doesn't say that this doesn't apply to Jewish people, hence the Jewish disciples forming the early church around the concept of Jesus' Messiahdom. So, it seems reasonable to say that only Christians form the Body, because....they do. I think that Jewish people along with all other people will be saved eventually, absolutely - but that doesn't make them part of the *current* Church. The idea that Jews don't need their own Messiah is baffling.

Not so fast. Unless Jesus spoke to you directly that is. This sort of argument is usually based on what people read in the bible, and they presume that Jesus said all of what is put into his mouth in various places. I rather doubt that Jesus was intending to be so deliberately exclusionary and was engaged in self-hate sufficient to justify, say Matthew's and historical RC church's antisemitism.

Frankly, I don't know if it possible to talk about including Jesus in God's plan for the Jews without getting to antisemitism. Or, if gentler, it didn't work the first time which roughly dates from Constantine to the Holocaust.

[tangent]
When we visited Auschwitz in 2011, we specifically did not see the Christian cross which apparently had been erected there and about which I had heard so much controversy.
[/tangent]

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
hanginginthere
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# 17541

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In my simplicity I always thought the term was just a way of acknowledging the Jewish roots/origin/heritage/ of Christianity, i.e. that Christianity did not appear fully formed from nowhere but began within and emerged out of Judaism. It never occurred to me that there might be some sinister political or anti-semitic undercurrent here!

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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'

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ken
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# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by hanginginthere:
In my simplicity I always thought the term was just a way of acknowledging the Jewish roots/origin/heritage/ of Christianity, i.e. that Christianity did not appear fully formed from nowhere but began within and emerged out of Judaism.

Yes, but who seriously disputes that? (Other than a few loony Nazis, mostly long dead)

As its used in political speech nowadays it think the phrase tends to have two main functions. The first ist taht it contsucts a secular state-morality of "common sense" and "tradition" and cl;aims that its based oin this artificial construct "Judeo-Christian" which amounts to a claim that that's what Judaism and Christianity are really about. Shoring up the moral basis of government in a mildly conservative way. This misrepresents and desacralises both religions. And the second is to exclude other religions from being "normal", from being full part of political society, and that exclusion extends to Muslims and Mormons and others who are historically just as much the heirs of ancient Judaism as the rest of us

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by hanginginthere:
In my simplicity I always thought the term was just a way of acknowledging the Jewish roots/origin/heritage/ of Christianity, i.e. that Christianity did not appear fully formed from nowhere but began within and emerged out of Judaism.

Yes, but who seriously disputes that? (Other than a few loony Nazis, mostly long dead)
That's what I was wondering. Who, exactly, is it that needs to have this clarified? "So you're a Christian, but you also follow the Tanakh? That's just mind blowing!" Are there actually a significant number of Marcionites running around in modern times?

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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