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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Christianity is basically about . . .
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
A FB status:
quote:
She: Christianity is basically about being a good person, isn't it?
Me: No.
She: Oh.
So what's wrong with this view? What's right with it?
Seems to me you could argue it's too concerned with a works based salvation. Yet it's quite easy to argue it the other way - theosis, abundant life, true humanity in faith and in Christ etc.
What do you think Christianity is basically about?*
(*please try keep it to a one liner, preferably in contemporary, simple language - you know - for us normal people)
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
"You're all ratbags, but you're forgiven anyway, so go and act in the same generous way to everyone else.
PS - I'll be back to check you're not using this as an excuse to be a complete bastard."
[ 11. June 2013, 13:20: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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MrsBeaky
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# 17663
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Posted
Christianity is basically about being a follower of Jesus Christ and this is evidenced by a life which is characterised by the things which he taught and modeled.
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
Christianity is basically about Jesus.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
What do you think Christianity is basically about?*
The belief that Jesus Christ was unique among people, in terms of his relation to the divine.
I tried to write that to make it as theologically inclusive as possible, while still maintaining the historical singularity of Jesus.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hairy Biker
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# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Christianity is basically about being a follower of Jesus Christ and this is evidenced by a life which is characterised by the things which he taught and modeled.
Sounds like a description of being a "good person" to me. Could you be so described if you didn't follow Jesus Christ "through whom all things were made"?
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Yes. Its the claim that Jesus is somehow God that is distinctive abotu Christianity.
If you were to drop that then what would be left would be a Jewish sect that doesn;t require gentile converts to keep kosher. (Which is probably more or less what most Christians were in the first few decades anyway) Or maybe an ulta-liberal version of Islam without the Arabic cultural baggage.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Mere Nick
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# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Yes. Its the claim that Jesus is somehow God that is distinctive abotu Christianity.
If you were to drop that then what would be left would be a Jewish sect that doesn;t require gentile converts to keep kosher. (Which is probably more or less what most Christians were in the first few decades anyway) Or maybe an ulta-liberal version of Islam without the Arabic cultural baggage.
Maybe the former, a Jewish sect, but not a version of Islam since Muhammad was a complete asshole.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
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Kwesi
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# 10274
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Posted
Making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.
Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005
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MrsBeaky
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# 17663
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Hairy biker:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Christianity is basically about being a follower of Jesus Christ and this is evidenced by a life which is characterised by the things which he taught and modeled.
Sounds like a description of being a "good person" to me. Could you be so described if you didn't follow Jesus Christ "through whom all things were made"?
Ah the perils of trying to be really succinct... the who Jesus is (divinity and humanity, and events of Easter)was meant to be contained within what he taught and modeled bit.
Hey ho!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
If Christianity is not about becoming a better person, then how is it not a vanity cult?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Knopwood
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# 11596
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Posted
I like to think Christianity is to some extent about topsy-turviness: up-ending our expectations of the divine and the world around us. The incarnation of the God "without parts or passions," the coming of the king in a cave, the lifting up of the body to heaven, and heaven descending to our bodies. But I would be suspicious of any formulation beginning with the title of the OP.
In a seminary tutorial, we covered a bit about the "theological worlds," which breaks down proposed answers to this question into 5 general archetypes. This pdf is similar to what we worked with. I found it a useful paradigm to think about - as long, like any model, as you don't take it too dogmatically.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Knopwood
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# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If Christianity is not about becoming a better person, then how is it not a vanity cult?
Well, quite. I suspect it's "basically" that's the snag. Central to Christianity, I think in most flavours (to different degrees, I'm sure) is the theosis that comes from closer conformity to the Perfect Human Being. ("Follow thee more nearly" and all that). Certainly Himself seems to suggest that if the message doesn't impact your treatment of your fellows, you've missed the plot.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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daronmedway
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# 3012
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Posted
It seems to me that any attempt to define Christianity which is not predicated solely on the person and work of Christ we end up saying more about ourselves that we do about the phenomenon which we call Christianity.
I'd say that Christianity isn't defined by how we follow Jesus, Christianity is defined by how Jesus makes us his followers.
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daronmedway
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# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.
That's the mission of Christ, but it's not the definition of Christianity. Mission exists because worship doesn't, which suggests to me that worship is ultimate.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Crśsos
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# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
It seems to me that any attempt to define Christianity which is not predicated solely on the person and work of Christ we end up saying more about ourselves that we do about the phenomenon which we call Christianity.
I think that's the case in any event. Christianity seems mostly about assuming divine approval for your own personal prejudices.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
I think it's a daft question. Christianity is not basically about one thing, but lots of things.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.
That's the mission of Christ, but it's not the definition of Christianity. Mission exists because worship doesn't, which suggests to me that worship is ultimate.
Which would make it a vanity cult.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Kwesi
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# 10274
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Posted
Daronmedway, can I remind you of the original question:
"What do you think Christianity is basically about?"
Don't you think it's about making disciples of all the nations?
Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ad Orientem
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# 17574
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Posted
I can't remember who said it, but Christ did not come to make bad men good but to make dead men live.
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
The salvation of souls.
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I can't remember who said it, but Christ did not come to make bad men good but to make dead men live.
Leonard Ravenhill
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
For me Christianity is about breaking the mold, God coming to us in Christ and our relating to others through Christ.
It is a perversion of Christianity to think God blesses our prejudices, rather Christianity challenges our prejudices--anytime we try to draw a line between us and another, we will find Christ on the other side of the line.
Many years ago, when Transactional Analysis was the fad, there was a book that was a take off on the I'm OK, You're OK book. That book was You're Not OK, But (with God) That's OK
Still makes sense today.
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Seems to me you could argue it's too concerned with a works based salvation.
Love God and love your neighbor, forgive, and sin no more - how can it not be about being a good person? It's not a definition and it's not even distinctive, but it's a theme throughout the Gospels. It's only concerned with a works-based salvation if you are asking "What's in it for me?"
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
Christianity is basically about...
God's ministry, love and grace to us through His Son Jesus.
It is not about us, it is about God. Christianity is the growing recognition of that and of the consequences of that.
Christianity is not about what we do, think, or become:- It is not about being good, knowing God, loving others, living life to the fullest, living for ever...etc. These are only side effects caused from being recipients of God's love.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Daronmedway, can I remind you of the original question:
"What do you think Christianity is basically about?"
Don't you think it's about making disciples of all the nations?
Disciples of who though? My point is this, if the who isn't clear and primary the what will be fuzzy and ill defined.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Crśsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
It is not about us, it is about God.
I guess we can shutter all the churches and everyone can just sleep in on Sundays then?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Daronmedway, can I remind you of the original question:
"What do you think Christianity is basically about?"
Don't you think it's about making disciples of all the nations?
Also, if this is the essence of what Christianity is about then Christianity won't be about anything in the New Creation. What I'm saying is that Christianity's ultimate meaning must be Jesus in his eternal union with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
[ 11. June 2013, 16:25: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crśsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
It is not about us, it is about God.
I guess we can shutter all the churches and everyone can just sleep in on Sundays then?
Surely that Isn't the attitude you take to selflessness in your other relationships?
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Daronmedway, can I remind you of the original question:
"What do you think Christianity is basically about?"
Don't you think it's about making disciples of all the nations?
Disciples of who though?
Human beings?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Crśsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Crśsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
It is not about us, it is about God.
I guess we can shutter all the churches and everyone can just sleep in on Sundays then?
Surely that Isn't the attitude you take to selflessness in your other relationships?
Well, it's my usual attitude about things that have nothing to do with me. If we accept Hawk's assertion that "Christianity is not about what we do, think, or become", then the actions of individual adherents are pointless.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
I would say that Christianity is basically about following Christ (Messiah-believed to be Jesus of Nazareth). That means lots of things.
Then I look at what goes on in and around the church then I see that can be wrong.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Daronmedway, can I remind you of the original question:
"What do you think Christianity is basically about?"
Don't you think it's about making disciples of all the nations?
Disciples of who though?
Human beings?
I think our wires are crossed. Let me rephrase. For whom are we making disciples?
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Christianity is about making all whole.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
"You're all ratbags, but you're forgiven anyway, so go and act in the same generous way to everyone else.
... yes but with the addition of...
"or at least try for Christ's sake!"
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
@OP
Currently, fighting a rear guard action against secularism, scientism, and consumerism. All of which also purport to give meaning to life.
It is also a business and money, and how to distribute the authority that money can buy.
It is about the advancement of agendas Christians have for other people, and often in its expression, rather deaf.
On a personal level, it is about a search for meaning for me. Though I think for many it is finding of meaning, and once Christian the search is over. I'm not good enough at Christianity to have that work for me. Nor have I found that that it has made my life any easier. In some ways harder.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
The Opening Post asks: quote:
What do you think Christianity is basically about?
I'm having a hard time answering this, especially the requirement to keep it simple. I find a great deal of sense (and not) in a number of different posted answers.
Possibly this OP functions something like a Rorshach Inkblot Test, telling us more about the person doing the answering than anything else.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
Christianity is basically about showing God to the world by following Christ. That does mean being a good person, but it's for God's sake primarily.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lord Clonk
Shipmate
# 13205
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Posted
My understanding is that it's basically about nonviolence. And I believe this to be in accord with most of what else has been said on this thread so far... although talk of Christianity being about God rather than us confuses me because it treats God and us as having dissociable interests.
In the past couple of days I've been marveling at how this makes me feel in my bones, like nothing I've felt before about this, that Christianity is truly good and life-transforming news.
[ 11. June 2013, 19:13: Message edited by: Lord Clonk ]
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Christianity is basically about being a follower of Jesus Christ and this is evidenced by a life which is characterised by the things which he taught and modeled.
Sounds like a description of being a "good person" to me. Could you be so described if you didn't follow Jesus Christ "through whom all things were made"?
Yes, you can be a good person w/o being a follower of Jesus-- which is why Mrs.Beaky's answer is not synonymous with "being a good person". Similarly, you could suck at "being good" for various reasons and still be a "follower of Jesus" who is attempting to live a life "characterized by the things he modeled". It's about intent more than outcome.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
Christianity is basically about showing God to the world by following Christ. That does mean being a good person, but it's for God's sake primarily.
But as I said upthread, I don't think Christianity should be defined by how we follow Jesus. Surely Christianity should be defined by how Jesus makes us his followers. If we focus our definitions on the act of following, our Christianity becomes about us and our efforts at goodness, pacifism, holiness, social justice, asceticism whatever.
Whereas, if Christianity is defined by how Jesus makes us his disciples it keeps it about him, his work and his grace, which is surely a better way of defining what it is about Christianity which is different to other religions or systems of morality.
[ 11. June 2013, 19:21: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Clonk:
My understanding is that it's basically about nonviolence. And I believe this to be in accord with most of what else has been said on this thread so far... although talk of Christianity being about God rather than us confuses me because it treats God and us as having dissociable interests.
In the past couple of days I've been marveling at how this makes me feel in my bones, like nothing I've felt before about this, that Christianity is truly good and life-transforming news.
It is about God rather than us. The teaching of Jesus is counter to our way of doing things, as here . It is good and life-transforming, and at the same time tough and often against our best interests. Check out the saints.
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway: But as I said upthread, I don't think Christianity should be defined by how we follow Jesus. Surely Christianity should be defined by how Jesus makes us his followers. If we focus our definitions on the act of following, our Christianity becomes about us and our efforts at goodness, pacifism, holiness, social justice, asceticism whatever.
Whereas, if Christianity is defined by how Jesus makes us his disciples it keeps it about him, his work and his grace, which is surely a better way of defining what it is about Christianity which is different to other religions or systems of morality.
I was not suggesting that it should be defined by how we follow, as if it were by our effort and nothing to do with the way Jesus makes us his disciples, or to do with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The resulting demonstration of Christ in us shows God to the world, whether through goodness, holiness, etc.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
So far, by a country mile, KLS.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
Clue's in the name - Christ. Or as someone summarised it "Jesus is Lord - what are you going to do about it?"
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Lord Clonk
Shipmate
# 13205
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
It is about God rather than us. The teaching of Jesus is counter to our way of doing things, as here . It is good and life-transforming, and at the same time tough and often against our best interests. Check out the saints.
Agreed, it is at the same time tough and from a selfish perspective often against our best interests. That being said, I believe it is for our best interests from the perspective of everyone taken as a whole. Do you disagree?
Posts: 267 | From: Glasgow | Registered: Nov 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Christianity is about making all whole.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Truman White:
Clue's in the name - Christ. Or as someone summarised it "Jesus is Lord - what are you going to do about it?"
But this is equal to saying redness is about red.
[ 12. June 2013, 00:04: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Mockingale
Shipmate
# 16599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
A FB status:
quote:
She: Christianity is basically about being a good person, isn't it?
Me: No.
She: Oh.
So what's wrong with this view? What's right with it?
Seems to me you could argue it's too concerned with a works based salvation. Yet it's quite easy to argue it the other way - theosis, abundant life, true humanity in faith and in Christ etc.
What do you think Christianity is basically about?*
(*please try keep it to a one liner, preferably in contemporary, simple language - you know - for us normal people)
Potlucks. Duh.
Posts: 679 | From: Connectilando | Registered: Aug 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Mockingale ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
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