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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: BBC Class Calculator
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Today's Independent talks about there being seven social classes according to a recent LSE study, instead of variants on the usual three.
Apparently this can be measured by answering a few simple questions.
I wonder if any shipmates have done this for fun? (For serious, it might warrant a move to Purgatory)
I attempted to provide a link, but it didn't work. Just type BBC Class Calculator into Google and off you go.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
To the delight of this champagne socialist, I came out as "traditional working class".
Aye, 'appen. Now if you'll excuse me I've clinkers to riddle and pots to side.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
'Established Middle Class'
I'm not surprised. My Dad always said we were middle class, swapped at birth with landed gentry.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
I tried playing with that BBC class calculator and I couldn't make it come out anything other than traditional middle or working class using a variety of responses. So I think this idea of seven classes is all a sham and there's only the old three anyway!
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
Despite being happy, relatively wealthy and well educated (several undergrad degrees and a few postgrad qualifications on top) I am in the Precariat class. If I double my income I make it to Middle class and triple it for Elite. I suspect it is heavily based on how much dough you roll rather than how cultured and socially acceptable you are.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Technical middle class: I suspect largely because of our rather limited social circle (and the fact thaat the jobs that most of the people that we do know do weren't listed).
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
It seems to be an assessment of income combined with areas of interest - traditional culture, 'urban' culture etc. And as such an example of thetypical class based stereotypes - a council house bred cleaner interested in Opera is beyond their imagination.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
My wife did it this morning and we were pretty low on the scale, despite her being a doctor. She suspected it was largely because we still rent, which the calculator seems to think is a useful measure of low class.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
And as a Minister I don't figure at all - presumably we "rent" as there's no category for "tied house"!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
Elite. (Even though I'm poor as shit).
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
The Sociology paper is interesting, although in common with most papers in that field, it contains too much waffle, and not enough sensible plots.
In response to Bob Two-Owls, membership of the Precariat is completely dominated by financial status. If you rent, don't make much money and don't have much in the way of savings, you get in there whatever.
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
It seems to be an assessment of income combined with areas of interest - traditional culture, 'urban' culture etc. And as such an example of the typical class based stereotypes - a council house bred cleaner interested in Opera is beyond their imagination.
No, this isn't true. The survey begins with no preconceptions about what people like or do. It asks people a set of questions - what activities they enjoy, about their financial status and about the people that they know and associate with, and then derives correlations from the data.
So the fact that it tells you that manual workers who rent their homes tend not to go to the theatre and tend not to socialize at home is because, on the whole, they don't. Of course a cleaner living in a council house can enjoy opera, but mostly they don't.
It's worth mentioning that this is a study of what people say that they do, not what they actually do. There is a well-documented tendency of people who think that they should have highbrow tastes reporting what they think they ought to do rather than what they actually do, so to some extent, "I like going to the theatre" includes "I'm an upstanding member of the community and people like me are supposed to enjoy the theatre. I'd better not mention my Sky Sports subscription."
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
The link in case anyone hasn't found it.
Very broad generalisations, on the basis of which I came out as Technical Middle Class. Personally, I like to think of myself as nouveau trash.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Established middle class here with an emergent service worker son.
It might be interesting to see how the longer survey categorises us.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Precariat- deprived, that's me. Well, at least going to museums, local classical concerts, and hanging out with professional people from church don't make too much of a dent. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I came out as emergent service worker. Probably quite accurate.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I've now done the longer survey and ended up with 20/100 for cultural capital. Apparently my range of cultural interests is narrower than the average person in the UK.
Although I ticked "no disability" I don't hear normally, which rules out much appreciation of music. So on more detailed examination my "established middle-classness" is eroded by my wonky eardrums.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I came out as 'Established Middle Class' though I suspected that I was on the borderland with technical middle class. The difference being, I suspect, owning my own home.
I suspect I'd have to earn doctor type wages to hit elite.
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Established middle class. Wholly because I know a lot of people in a lot of different jobs, because of my combined interests in church and soccer.
Then again, I'm in the United States so that probably skews the whole thing a lot.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
I'm Technical Middle Class, apparently.
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I've had a spring in my step all day as I came out as Elite , despite altering the income up and down and trying the test three times.
Naturally I vouch for the test's accuracy. haha
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Elite, apparently ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) You can tell by the vast wealth, power and influence I wield in the land...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
I played around and found that if I kept my social and cultural answers the same (correct for me), and tinkered with the financial issues, I progressed through all but one of the classes, so my answer was almost wholly dependent on earnings/savings/home ownership - ie money. Technical Middle Class was the only one that didn't appear to be purely finance-related.
I suspect that this is because in both the cultural and social categories I ticked boxes from what might be seen as the top and the bottom. As someone else has said, it seems to be unable to cope with people who embrace supposed extremes - socialising with university lecturers and shop assistants, going to gigs and visiting museums. From the descriptions, Technical Middle Class is dependent on having a similar social group and not engaging in highbrow activities.
Thus if you have a wide range of interests and friends you will be classified solely according to your finances. As far as I am concerned that makes it fatally flawed.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I came out as 'Established Middle Class' though I suspected that I was on the borderland with technical middle class. The difference being, I suspect, owning my own home.
I suspect I'd have to earn doctor type wages to hit elite.
I'm on the borderline. I think the deciding factor is how many people I include among people I know socially. If I include people who are still facebook friends but whom I haven't seen since we moved, then we become established.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I thought it was very simplistic.
I scored as 'established working class'.
Then i wondered if my income made a difference. As I am retired, it's fairly low.
So I took the test again and the only think i changed was my income - I ticked the salary-range i would be on if I was still working.
Bingo - I scored as 'established middle class'.
I also noticed that there aren't any questions about education - graduate, post-graduate or whatever.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I came out as Elite, mainly I think due to the price of the property we own, but we live in London where house prices are ridiculous.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
I tried playing with that BBC class calculator and I couldn't make it come out anything other than traditional middle or working class using a variety of responses. So I think this idea of seven classes is all a sham and there's only the old three anyway!
I've done it three times but still come out with "emergent services worker", which is complete rubbish. I suppose they didn't have a category for "Old Fogey".
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Kyzyl
Ship's dog
# 374
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Elite. (Even though I'm poor as shit).
Yeah, same here. Must be my liking for museums and "stately homes."
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I need a quote.
Posts: 668 | From: Wapasha's Prairie | Registered: Jun 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Same as leo - including tinkering. Nothing about reading.
I used to subdivide middle into those with books and those without. Often surprising to find who was in the latter group.
I do not like their labelling the top group with the word "elite". Unlike the others, which are value free descriptors, this, like "aristocracy" carries the idea of "best", which I would dispute - and have emailed the Beeb via Today and World at One to do. I couldn't find a contact method in the main web page about the thing.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I missed the house value on the first run through. Adding that has sprung me from the thrusting (but a bit Common) Technicals into the Establised Middle.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I did come out as "Elite". Probably a bit OTT, but I am definitely in the top categories.
This is almost certainly because my financial position is comfortable. But it does mean that when I rant about the poor/those on benefits etc, it is not because I feel oppressed (although I do), it is because even as someone who should be a natural Tory, I think they stink.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
Himself and I both did it, and as we share and income (not that big) and a social life, he came out as elite and I as technical middle class. Just trying to find out what the difference was.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I do not like their labelling the top group with the word "elite". Unlike the others, which are value free descriptors, this, like "aristocracy" carries the idea of "best", which I would dispute - and have emailed the Beeb via Today and World at One to do. I couldn't find a contact method in the main web page about the thing.
You mean education, a good standard of living, being financially solvent to the extent that you don't have to worry about money, and having a good social circle aren't desirable things?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807
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Posted
I am Emergent Services - whatever that means. Basically because I have no savings (yet) and rent my little bit of space. I've been working 18 months now though so who knows I might shift up one in the next few decades.
Posts: 535 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Nov 2004
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
I came up as "New affluent workers".
Pretty funny, huh? The affluent description would make most of my friends laugh hysterically! And I'm old(er). So I figure it's because the bank and I own my home, and over the (many) years of working I have some savings...not enough to save my skin, however.
Oh, and I know someone in almost all the categories listed. So, my life circumstances seem to skew everything! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I do not like their labelling the top group with the word "elite". Unlike the others, which are value free descriptors, this, like "aristocracy" carries the idea of "best", which I would dispute - and have emailed the Beeb via Today and World at One to do. I couldn't find a contact method in the main web page about the thing.
You mean education, a good standard of living, being financially solvent to the extent that you don't have to worry about money, and having a good social circle aren't desirable things?
No-one seems to object to a sporting elite or premier league to describe the eminience of their football team.
Proudly Elite. (but I'd prefer 'aristocrat')
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
When considering if you are wealthy, you might want to look at this. If you earn over £26,000, you are officially above average for income.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
I'm a new affluent worker too. Flattered to be described as young and active!
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Antisocial Alto
Shipmate
# 13810
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Posted
Interesting that the money questions are based on income and savings without taking expenses into account (unless owning versus renting assumes different expenses).
In the US you would have to take health care costs and educational costs much more seriously to get a picture of how well off someone really is. Plenty of people have a decent income which is eaten up by health insurance and student loans.
Posts: 601 | From: United States | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Right. By adding "listening to classical music" to my interests I am now in "established middle class". Suddenly I'm no longer young and short of money. This is clearly one of the benefits of listening to classical music, you age overnight but your disposable income doubles.
[ 03. April 2013, 20:43: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
I have tumbled straight from 'social class 1' to 'traditional working class'. Oh dear! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
I'm "established middle class" - I can see how that would come about as I have some savings, I like a variety of cultural events and I know different types of people, mainly thanks to people I know from church.
I'm not entirely convinced this kind of categorisation (financial capital, social capital, cultural capital) would replace most British people's idea of class though. No matter what kind of terms you would use to describe them, the majority of people (unfortunately) would describe some kind of ladder with ranking of educational achievements, career achievements and family background. Financial ranking still comes down relatively low on the list of judging who has class - compare the stereotypes of an impoverished titled family vs nouveau riche.
Plus, I think how you treat others still matters. My parents will refer to people who "might have done alright for themselves, but still have no class", usually in reference to those who have no manners. I mean in doing unto others etc, not how they hold their knives and forks!
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I'm an Emergent Service Worker but I move into the Technical Middle Class if I get a mortgage rather than rent my home.
[ 03. April 2013, 21:34: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Japes
Shipmate
# 5358
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Posted
I have a wide age of interests, and a wide variety of friends, but it's the low income and renting that is keeping me solidly in the "Precariat" section.
I'm happy with that, though!
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Blog may or may not be of any interest.
Posts: 2013 | From: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: Dec 2003
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
Do all note that the analysis done by Savage et al. discovers that people's answers to the set of questions tend to fall in to one of 7 clusters, and that the descriptors ("Elite", "Precariat" etc.) are just labels attached to those clusters.
In terms of "culture", which many people are discussing, the data shows that people's behaviour decomposes quite nicely into a two-dimensional distribution, with the first axis being, more or less, "cultural engagement" - ie. how much and how often you do stuff - be it go to gigs, the opera or whatever, and the second axis being highbrow vs lowbrow.
They find that the first axis correlates with employment (people who have never worked, or who do routine labour don't do much "cultural stuff", whereas professionals do quite a bit). The second axis correlates almost exactly with age. The older you are, the more likely you are to go to the theatre, museums and to dislike pop music, and the less likely you are to watch or play sport, go to the gym, like rap music or Indian food.
Retired people kick sharply over into the "culturally disengaged" direction: they like traditional, "old fogie" activities, but don't do them very much.
Antisocial Alto: This is a categorization exercise, not an attempt to determine precise financial standing. Whilst you're right that education and healthcare costs have a big effect on your finances in the US for people with the same income (and a rather smaller one in the UK), those distinctions are almost certainly accommodated by the house value and household savings variables. People who are paying off big college loans tend not to own expensive houses and have large savings. So I think the analysis could be applied to a US dataset without modification, and it would do OK.
The only real assumption that goes into this analysis is that it scores the social status of the people you know according to CAMSIS scores, so it assumes something about the social hierarchy embedded in those scores. However, as the CAMSIS scores themselves are driven by data on how people actually interact socially, this is unlikely to be terribly wrong.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I came out as 'traditional middle class', which is clearly an egregious error.
A load of poppycock IMNSHO.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I think the test is all wrong. I also come out as "precariat", which I think is almost entirely based on renting my home (you try buying one round my way ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ).
That, and your friends are like you/you don't go to enough museums. If, like me apparently, everyone you know is doing something different (or working multiple jobs, so of course you have to check multiple boxes), then you turn into an emergent service worker—AKA "broke hipster."
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hilaryg:
Plus, I think how you treat others still matters. My parents will refer to people who "might have done alright for themselves, but still have no class", usually in reference to those who have no manners. I mean in doing unto others etc, not how they hold their knives and forks!
Equating how one holds a knife and fork has implications - and relevance as to both cultural style as well as 'class'. Mind you, from my experience, that would leave most Americans out in the cold. I've never been able to work out why so many Americans cut their food with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right - THEN setting down the knife, change the fork to the right hand and hoe into the cut-up food. Any suggestions?
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif) I mean, these people wonder why they are a slipping world power!
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
BTW - I came out as 'Elite' - yeah, right!
As per other posts, this 'survey' is so skewed it is laughable - maybe it is just meant to be funny?
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
quote:
Originally posted by hilaryg:
Plus, I think how you treat others still matters. My parents will refer to people who "might have done alright for themselves, but still have no class", usually in reference to those who have no manners. I mean in doing unto others etc, not how they hold their knives and forks!
Equating how one holds a knife and fork has implications - and relevance as to both cultural style as well as 'class'. Mind you, from my experience, that would leave most Americans out in the cold. I've never been able to work out why so many Americans cut their food with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right - THEN setting down the knife, change the fork to the right hand and hoe into the cut-up food. Any suggestions?
Cuz that's the way we wuz teached? I can figure out why yours is a better system for eating food you can stab. But the fork in the dominant hand tines up is sooo much easier for food that you scoop.
I've thought about practicing using flatware the European way if I ever go ther. But, no, I tell myself. These folks are gracious enough to welcome me to their shores. The least I can do is amuse them and make them feel superior. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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