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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Are the Baptists changing their mind?
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
The British Baptist Union just held its annual Assembly at Blackpool. On the final day there was a major plenary session to discuss attitudes to Same-sex partnerships. I wasn't there, but it sounds as if the debate was handled in a sensitive way and that the anticipated difficulties were avoided.
I wonder if the BU leadership now feels that it had ben over-cautious in the past; and if a real change in attitudes has quietly been taking place in the churches? This has certainly been my experience in our congregation; but we are not typical of most Baptist churches as we are more theologically liberal (although hopefully trying to make sense of the Bible in 2013!)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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MrsM
Apprentice
# 14940
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Posted
I think it was adequately described by one of the listeners who said there was a tension between the theological head and the pastoral heart. Many expressed a desire for more openness and tolerance, but were aware that even when wrestled with, the Bible restrained them from wholeheartedly doing so.
My sense is that the Union is more informed, but still struggling
Posts: 14 | From: the dining room, normally | Registered: Jul 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
That sounds very fair. Just out of interest, were you present yourself? Or is this perhaps a description from someone you know who was there and sensed the atmosphere?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Stejjie
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# 13941
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsM:
I think it was adequately described by one of the listeners who said there was a tension between the theological head and the pastoral heart. Many expressed a desire for more openness and tolerance, but were aware that even when wrestled with, the Bible restrained them from wholeheartedly doing so.
My sense is that the Union is more informed, but still struggling
This seems a fair account of the debate, both in terms of its content and its mood. I think people were glad simply to have the opportunity to talk about it and the response when Paul Goodliff asked if we wanted to continue to talk about it was overwhelmingly affirmative - let's hope this opportunity is given and the debate continues in the honest, respectful way it started on Monday.
(It was also good, as a Baptist minister, to hear Paul Goodliff affirm the right of ministers to speak out about this issue without fear of sanction. I hope this will be the case and ministers will use this and speak out, whatever their views on the subject).
I do think the importance of Monday's debate lies not in the conclusions that were drawn (there weren't any, apart from "we need to keep talking") but in the way it was carried out. Both sides of the debate seemed to be respectful of the other and I couldn't pick out any real animosity (though that may be because we were in small groups, where it's harder to pick things like that up). And the conclusions the listeners reflected back to the assembly seemed to be accepted by all.
I don't think anyone's in any doubt that this is going to be a difficult debate with much for all sides to wrestle with. But as long as we keep listening to each other and not shouting each other down, then we might come through it OK - and perhaps strengthened.
So kudos to BUGB for allowing the debate to happen (especially when there's so many other important things we need to debate).
And perhaps Steve Chalke speaking out has done us some good? runs
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
And perhaps Steve Chalke speaking out has done us some good? runs
Well, he got listened when some of the rest of us didn't ... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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MrsM
Apprentice
# 14940
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
That sounds very fair. Just out of interest, were you present yourself? Or is this perhaps a description from someone you know who was there and sensed the atmosphere?
I was there.
Posts: 14 | From: the dining room, normally | Registered: Jul 2009
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsM:
I think it was adequately described by one of the listeners who said there was a tension between the theological head and the pastoral heart. Many expressed a desire for more openness and tolerance, but were aware that even when wrestled with, the Bible restrained them from wholeheartedly doing so.
That kind of sums up my position, FWIW.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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The Silent Acolyte
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# 1158
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Posted
I can't say much about Baptists in the UK, but my informants tell me, on the eve of the second annual gay rights demonstration in Tbilisi tomorrow, of a theologically sound statement issued by the Evangelical Baptist Church of Georgia's Bishop in Tbilisi calling for peace and tolerance for sexual minorities.
So, at least in Georgia, the Baptists have changed their minds.
Pray for safety for the demonstrators and that the Orthodox Church and its thugs stay home.
[ 17. May 2013, 01:48: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsM:
I think it was adequately described by one of the listeners who said there was a tension between the theological head and the pastoral heart. Many expressed a desire for more openness and tolerance, but were aware that even when wrestled with, the Bible restrained them from wholeheartedly doing so.
My sense is that the Union is more informed, but still struggling
The question for me (perhaps others?) is that whether the heart will rule the head, or vice versa.
A necessary debate and a conversation to be had. But, when will we get an answer? You can talk until the cows come home but .....
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
I had a letter this week saying that although BU accredited ministers will face disciplinary action if they bless a same sex civil partnership, as a chaplain, in extremis, if someone is within 72 hours of the end of their life, and a medic (sic) says so, and it seems pastorally necessary and I am comfortable with it and it accords with my integrity and no one else is available or appropriate to do it (and probably a few more qualifications as well - I really should re-read it) I can bless a same sex relationship and not face disciplinary action.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
I had a letter this week saying that although BU accredited ministers will face disciplinary action if they bless a same sex civil partnership, as a chaplain, in extremis, if someone is within 72 hours of the end of their life, and a medic (sic) says so, and it seems pastorally necessary and I am comfortable with it and it accords with my integrity and no one else is available or appropriate to do it (and probably a few more qualifications as well - I really should re-read it) I can bless a same sex relationship and not face disciplinary action.
Does there need to be an "r" in the month as well?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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