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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: the youth of today according to Indifferently
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
what Indifferently thinks left-wingers think....or something
It's probably not worth starting this thread because Indifferently never actually engages with his critics, but the obsession with the 'persecution' of Christians in Britain (aka requiring Christians to fuck up slightly less than usual and be decent human beings) is just getting tedious now.
If having a state church and bishops in the House of Lords while also having laws that don't oppress people of other faiths and none is oppression, then I'm pretty OK with being oppressed.
Also, can we lose this obsession with New Labour, the Guardian and the BBC being left wing institutions? I don't think Indifferently has actually ever met left-wingers before.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Also, can we lose this obsession with New Labour, the Guardian and the BBC being left wing institutions? I don't think Indifferently has actually ever met left-wingers before.
I think we have to read "left-wing" and "right-wing" as "left of me" and "right of me" almost every time they are used.
The Guardian is, on average, left-of-centre, mostly in the trendy Islington direction ![[Smile]](smile.gif) It is certainly the most left-wing of the mainstream UK press. The BBC is staffed by people who are mostly slightly left of centre, and read the Guardian, but its editorial outlook seems to me to be statist rather than left.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
I don't tend to post in this forum because it tends to have a lot of people using naughty playground language to make themselves seem radical - generally females, curiously enough - but I'll dip my toes in just once.
New Labour is the most left-wing government that has ever existed in Britain. Its radical social agenda would precisely chime with what Jade seems to support - for example, the "gay" agenda was advanced massively (adoption, the age of consent, civil partnerships),
the moral difference between elective single motherhood and being a widow was abolished in state (when the widows' pension was scrapped),
the census introduced a question about religion,
the state deliberately encouraged huge amounts of immigration for the express purpose of transforming the cultural fabric of this country, then put in legislation like "Racial and Religious Hatred Act" to silence critics (under the veil of opposing bigotry),
and numerous other measures were adopted to marginalize those who disagree, with the crowning glory being the 2010 Equality Act, which completely and finally made Equality and Diversity the Established Religion in Britain.
the Human Fertilization and Embryology Act which cleared the way for yet more experimentation on unborn children, *which the government pushed through on a three line whip*
I just prefer the Church of England to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, its secular replacement. Even with our woolly bishops we are not pursuing violently 'discrimination' cases against hapless pensioners designed to humiliate them personally for having the wrong views on sexual morality and then publicizing the case in order to make sure nobody else commits such wicked thought crimes.
Now we have "gay marriage." The Church is now being told by the Prime Minister from the dispatch box to adopt "women bishops" and "get with the programme" (how nuanced). Teachers are being warned that they will be sacked if they disapprove of this new orthodoxy. Grandparents are being told that if they decline to actually approve of homosexuality they will never see their grandchildren again. Registrars are being threatened with the sack for refusing to officiate at civil partnership ceremonies.
This might all seem wonderful to you. But it's deeply authoritarian and designed to send a message which says, We are in Charge Now. The figures of Jesus and Moses outside the Courts now look like nothing less than a parody, or an ironic joke.
This is all the more invidious because it's done in the name of 'tolerance'. Except, it's not tolerant at all. Left-wing groups are shutting down debates on university campuses because others dare to oppose abortion? How is that liberal?
Christians are being persecuted. They're not being strung up, but the persecution is all the more effective because the Left have infiltrated the Church itself and are subverting it to something which says it follows Christ, but actually follows someone else.
Far better than openly killing Christians, this has unleashed the poison of apathy and scepticism which has now turned Britain into a secular Babylon.
Posts: 288 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Jan 2013
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
The Guardian supported the Lib Dems at the last election: so hardly raving Marxists. The BBC is on the side of the establishment, which currently means well to the right of centre. And few people, let alone Christians, let alone Anglicans, let alone even a large proportion of party members, are enthusiastic supporters of Labour policies.
But Indifferently doesn't see it like that of course. I accused him of being Archbishop Carey but I think he is probably the Revd Dr Peter Mullen. Neither of whom live in the real world.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
New Labour is the most left-wing government that has ever existed in Britain.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Thus proving my point. The real socialists went out with the government of the Blessed Clement Attlee.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
New Labour is the most left-wing government that has ever existed in Britain.
Thus proving my point. The real socialists went out with the government of the Blessed Clement Attlee.
Yeah we have fuckwits in the States who say this about Obama. It would be hilarious if it didn't have frightening implications.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Indifferently: This is all the more invidious because it's done in the name of 'tolerance'. Except, it's not tolerant at all.
Why won't you tolerate my intolerance? ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
A typical fundie rant from Indifferently, but notice the agenda. It's not about actually relating to people as individuals, but pontificating about trends in society (how very left wing!) and how apparently unchristian they are. A lot of talk about how we are supposed to affirm homosexuality or else we will be punished, but nothing about the discrimination and violence that gay people have suffered for decades at the hands of the indignant moral majority. A lot of paranoid crap about the infiltration of the church, but no thought given to the fact that engaging in simplistic stereotyping is an immoral, naive and intellectually lazy and irresponsible form of judgmentalism.
Perhaps we should go back to the days of chemically castrating the likes of Alan Turing, to whom, of course, millions of people owe a great debt? Is that the kind of society Jesus wants?
I could say more, but sod it, what's the point...
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
New Labour is the most left-wing government that has ever existed in Britain.
You can not be serious. Compared with the 1945-50 Labour Government under Clement Attlee, the Blair administration was centrist.
Just to give a few examples, the 1945-50 Labour Government oversaw the following changes;
*the nationalisation of coal mining and the steel industry
*the creation of the state-owned British Railways
*the establishment of the National Health Service
*the granting of independence to India, Burma and Ceylon.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
I always said it was a mistake not letting them keep the ferret.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I think my response to Indifferently's Decalogue would be:
Whatever.
Not many friends then?
Too right
Show us your scientific credentials.
Highly questionable.
Why not?
Nope. Difference.
Quite right.
Eh?
Seems reasonable - Fred Godwin lives up the top of the road.
[ 10. May 2013, 21:58: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Indifferently, dead horses such as homosexuality and abortion are not left or right wing issues. Social liberalism is not the same as being left wing. I am left wing and socially liberal but many people are one without being the other.
Social conservatism is not part and parcel of being a Christian. You may disagree with liberal Christians but that does not make us non-Christians.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
New Labour is the most left-wing government that has ever existed in Britain.
You can not be serious. Compared with the 1945-50 Labour Government under Clement Attlee, the Blair administration was centrist.
Just to give a few examples, the 1945-50 Labour Government oversaw the following changes;
*the nationalisation of coal mining and the steel industry
*the creation of the state-owned British Railways
*the establishment of the National Health Service
*the granting of independence to India, Burma and Ceylon.
Yeah, but give them credit for continuing to persecute homosexuals, ignore racism and discriminate against women, through the 'marriage bar' and unequal pay, even in the civil service and teaching. On that basis Indifferently isn't talking bollocks.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Tell me again how believing scientists when they tell us about climate change is an explicitly left-wing trait?
Perhaps it has to do with lefties wanting to collectivise everything, while right-wingers say "fuck you, I'm alright, what do I care how other people are doing outside my (air-conditioned) bubble?".
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
New Labour is the most left-wing government that has ever existed in Britain.
You can not be serious. Compared with the 1945-50 Labour Government under Clement Attlee, the Blair administration was centrist.
Just to give a few examples, the 1945-50 Labour Government oversaw the following changes;
*the nationalisation of coal mining and the steel industry
*the creation of the state-owned British Railways
*the establishment of the National Health Service
*the granting of independence to India, Burma and Ceylon.
Yeah, but give them credit for continuing to persecute homosexuals, ignore racism and discriminate against women, through the 'marriage bar' and unequal pay, even in the civil service and teaching. On that basis Indifferently isn't talking bollocks.
Sure he is. The Wilson government of the 1960s introduced
a) the 1965 Race Relations Act
b) the Abolition of Capital Punishment (1965)
c) the 1967 Sexual Offences Act which decriminalised homosexual acts
d) the 1970 Equal Pay act
That was "Old Labour" too.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I was trying to contrast the Attlee government with later ones. The Wilson government was less economically socialist and collectivist but far more egalitarian on an individual basis compared to Attlee's. Wilson's government was more egalitarian than Blair's too and he had the balls to keep Britain out of a useless war.
FWIW Attlee's and Wilson's governments were both more leftist than Blair & Brown.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{Forever glad to live in a country that at least attempts to separate church and state, especially at school.}
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
FWIW Attlee's and Wilson's governments were both more leftist than Blair & Brown.
We agree! Therefore, Indifferently is talking bollocks about New Labour. He doesn't know his left from his right.
But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, give him a little time to admit his mistaken assessment of New Labour. Ignorance may feed prejudice, but is not the same as prejudice. Anyone can learn.
But I really dislike those organs of the media which feed the kind of crappy automatic thinking in Indifferently's post. Perhaps it's better described as automatic non-thinking. Whatever; it just reads and smells like brain-vomit.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Blair's government was socially and economically liberal - I have no idea what this has to do with Labour whatsoever, since they have historically been neither, being economically socialist and socially more authoritarian, or at least centralising.
This makes his very difficult to compare with other administrations which flew the same flag, because for Blair it was so much a flag of convenience: a means to POWER.
The fact that Indifferently, in spite of his infinite omniscience, is unable to tell the difference between this and something close to Stalinism makes me want to reach for a red-ribboned clue stick.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
posted by Indifferently
...
Christians are being persecuted. They're not being strung up, but the persecution is all the more effective because the Left have infiltrated the Church itself and are subverting it to something which says it follows Christ, but actually follows someone else.
...
You fail to distinguish between "Christians" and organisations (churches, denominations, organisational structures).
If there is any "persecution", which I personally don't believe, it is in fact because the structures of organised religion (mainly labelled Christian) are no longer being allowed to get away with a lot of behaviour that is not acceptable in the 21st century:
- open homophobia
- some gender discrimination
- circumventing the criminal law in relation to sexual offences
- ignoring certain aspects of employment legislation
The offence here is that these "Christian" labelled structures are still treated with official respect even when they behave contrary not just to the Law of the Land but basic human decency.
If you feel it is "persecution" for the state (not any one particular political party or government) to try to ensure that child molesters are not protected, that women are treated as being of equal worth with men, that LGBT people are not marginalised and belittled, then I'd suggest you talk to younger women and mothers in your own family circle along these lines:
Do they agree that a church has the right to protect from prosecution someone who rapes and/or sodomises children under the age of 16?
Are they happy that if there are two applicants for a job, one female and qualified the other male and unqualified, the male gets it just because he is male and the employer is a church?
Are they happy that the church is, in some instances, happy to endorse - maybe even perform itself - 8 or 9 weddings for a serial adulterer (heterosexual) but will fight tooth and nail not to give the respect and title of marriage to a faithful monogamous relationship of 30+ years standing?
The CofE in particular does itself no favours by having a governing structure that is unfit for purpose in a fast-moving world and the other denominations aren't far behind. Where is the General Synod or the RCC Bishops Conference when they are discussing introducing the death penalty for homosexual acts in Uganda?
If the Second Coming happened tomorrow in the UK what would be the CofE reaction? First, blind panic because they wouldn't know under which Board they should set up a committee (Social Responsibility?); then they would have to advertise for staff for the committee, get diary dates, etc. The reformed denominations would be somewhat the same but much swifter to get their act together. The RCC would be slightly better at first because their leaders have more local autonomy - but they'd have to forward to Rome all and anything that required action.
WHO is this "someone else" that we're all being made to follow? From where I sit you should make that someTHING and the answer is the Oozlum bird, that wonderful creature that flies in ever-decreasing circles before disappearing up its own fundament. Unfair? Maybe, but if so, only a little.
Frankly, the main problem I have with ALL political parties is their pussy-footing around certain issues because of "cultural" sensitivities - I'm talking about grooming of under-age children by some groups, female genital mutilation (aka female circumcision), forced/arranged marriage, effective purdah, pronouncement of fatwas against gays, promotion of homophobic attitudes, etc.
There have been some terrible sins committed by governments made-up by both main political parties under the cloak of "multi-culturalism" and a terror of being accused of being anti-Islam. We could argue here that the lack of much formal structure in Islam has made tackling many of the flagrant human rights abuses perpetrated in the name of the prophet well-nigh impossible without committing political suicide.
"Christians" shouting about persecution in the UK just make themselves look pathetic - and they are an embarrassment to many of us who don't share their views.
But in shouting about their "persecution" they belittle and trivialise the very real persecution going on elsewhere in the world - Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, etc. THAT IS SCANDALOUS. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
When did L'organist borrow the Mallet Of Loving Correction?
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
"Christians" shouting about persecution in the UK just make themselves look pathetic - and they are an embarrassment to many of us who don't share their views.
But in shouting about their "persecution" they belittle and trivialise the very real persecution going on elsewhere in the world - Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, etc. THAT IS SCANDALOUS.
Good rant, L'organist (I'd just drop the first set of scare quotes). Total misuse of the word 'persecution'.
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
When did L'organist borrow the Mallet Of Loving Correction?
Heh heh
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
When did L'organist borrow the Mallet Of Loving Correction?
Not sure, but I'm off to hide The Great Flaming Sword and make sure the Relics Cupboard is securely padlocked. Just in case ...
Indifferently seems to have confused the Ship with the comments page of the Daily Fail.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
In Hell (alone!) the Mallet of Loving Correction, like the Clue Bat, is available to all and is stowed just inside the door. That does not however mean it is to be used At All Times.
Please clean and replace these instruments after use. Someone else might want to use them after you.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Let's see, women in the kitchen, gays in the closet, blacks in their place and bloody heathens out of the country. Else you are a communist, innit.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
L'organist
I do not believe in innovating doctrine. I think we are instead bound by the teaching of the Universal Church. And that is why we simply do not have the authority to put ladies in sacerdotal garb.
I also have no idea why this being the 21st century has anything to do with it - truth is not in any way a variable dependent on time.
Liberal Christians don't like the doctrines they have been given and the God they learn about so they refasbion him in their own image. This is otherwise known as idolatry.
Posts: 288 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Jan 2013
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Why do misogynists always insist on calling women "ladies" anyway?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Why do misogynists always insist on calling women "ladies" anyway?
Term from a bygone day? Nostalgia, perhaps?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Ladies* and Gentlemen! We are now accepting entries into the Intolerance Olympics. Be warned, those wishing to enter the No True Scotsman and the Help, Help, I'm Being Repressed** events face a stiff challenger in Indifferently, current odds on favourite for gold in both.
*Sorry, hope using this expression does not mark me misogynist.
**Takes a strong contender to beat the American religious right, but this one seems up to the task. I means, seriously, how does a member of a state religion accomplish this? Truly an impressive feat.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
When they are being politically incorrect according to you? Particularly incorrect would be a female person calling herself "lady"? I know and have known.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
When they are being politically incorrect according to you? Particularly incorrect would be a female person calling herself "lady"? I know and have known.
Um, no. You clearly don't get the concept. People not in the power position may call themselves whatever they like. A black man may call another black man "nigger." I may not.
This isn't rocket surgery salad.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Why do misogynists always insist on calling women "ladies" anyway?
They love women and are often married to one.
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
posted by Indifferently
L'organist
I do not believe in innovating doctrine. I think we are instead bound by the teaching of the Universal Church. And that is why we simply do not have the authority to put ladies in sacerdotal garb.
You have not been asked to innovate doctrine. Christ preached that we should love one another, protect the weak, give aid to the fatherless and widows, obey the temporal law in matters temporal (render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s) and obey the law of God otherwise – that is, the 10 commandments.
Jesus did not ask us to be bound by the teaching of the Universal Church (whatever and whichever you mean by that) because there was no such thing – unless, of course, you feel that, since Christ was a Jew, Christians should consider themselves bound by the decisions of rabbinical courts. If that is the case, then are you going to decide to be bound by the Hassidic or Sephardic rules – or perhaps Reform; of course, you could always decide to be Lubavitch, in which case you wouldn’t recognise the Agudath of Israel anyway. (Unless you are going to argue that modern Lubavitch have moved so far from the views of MM Schneerson that they shouldn't be considered to be following his teachings?)
Will you please stop referring to adult females as “ladies” – whilst all ladies are women, not all women are ladies. Oh, and no one is asking you to dress them up, whether you consider legitimately or no, in sacerdotal garb.
quote:
I also have no idea why this being the 21st century has anything to do with it - truth is not in any way a variable dependent on time.
This being the 21st century has a lot to do with things: if you don’t like the modern world then you are free to withdraw from it and leave behind the progress which you do deplore. But this should not be a pick-and-mix thing; if you want to apply the rules, mores and standards of behaviour of the 17th century (or whatever) then you take the whole lot: the lack of sanitation, the lack of medicine for simple complaints, the reduced life expectancy, the non-existence of modern appliances, etc.
Of course truth is variable according to time: it was TRUE to say and believe that the sun moved around the earth at the time of Christ because they were unable to prove or show that anything else was the case. But for someone now to say that the sun moves around the earth is UNTRUE because we know that this is not the case. So when the scriptures say “Consider the heavens...” we are considering the same heavens but from a perspective of greater and different knowledge.
quote:
Liberal Christians don't like the doctrines they have been given and the God they learn about so they refasbion him in their own image. This is otherwise known as idolatry.
You accuse people you disagree with of idolatry – on what basis do you make such a charge? The only idolatry I see is the dangerous practice of insisting that the patterns of belief, mores, and societal organisation of a first century sect should bind forever the behaviour of adherents of the same faith: this is the erection of a tin god.
[ 13. May 2013, 07:56: Message edited by: L'organist ]
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's an interesting point about fashioning God in your own image. I would have thought that everybody does this, and that we don't have any choice. I mean, that we can't step outside our own cultural and intellectual mindset, in order to construct an image of God that is at odds with that.
But conservatives often say this, as if they have escaped this tendency somehow, and have done their imaging of God in a pure fashion! But this idea itself is a particular cultural norm.
I notice this with arguments about marriage, when people talk about 'traditional marriage'. But until the late 19th century, this involved the legal suppression of women's identity! Does anyone actually support this now - well, maybe they do.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
L'organist
I do not believe in innovating doctrine. I think we are instead bound by the teaching of the Universal Church. And that is why we simply do not have the authority to put ladies in sacerdotal garb.
I also have no idea why this being the 21st century has anything to do with it - truth is not in any way a variable dependent on time.
Liberal Christians don't like the doctrines they have been given and the God they learn about so they refasbion him in their own image. This is otherwise known as idolatry.
So, basically, only the kind of Christians you don't approve of have refashioned the Lord in their own image ... Whilst Christians you approve of - and who think the same as you - are following the one true faith?!
If you truely think that, you seriously need to get out more. Everyone is guilty of refashioning the Lord in their own image because we're only human and we don't have a brain or an imagination big enough to cope with what God's really like or what he really thinks about stuff. We only ever get a glimpse.
Tubbs
[ 13. May 2013, 10:58: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
quote:
Originally Posted by LilBuddha
Let's see, women in the kitchen, gays in the closet, blacks in their place and bloody heathens out of the country. Else you are a communist, innit.
Is this the right thread to be discussing UKIP?
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I dunno; I just can't help imagining that people who see God as a sort of cosmic Paul Dacre are probably as much off the mark as us commie pinko politically correct wet liberals.
Hope so, anyway.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Ain't saying everyone that uses the term lady is a misogynist, but I have observed that misogynists use it far more often.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
quote:
Originally Posted by LilBuddha
Let's see, women in the kitchen, gays in the closet, blacks in their place and bloody heathens out of the country. Else you are a communist, innit.
Is this the right thread to be discussing UKIP?
Just distilling what appears to be Indifferently's viewpoint.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
Posts: 288 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Jan 2013
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
The problem is that it's nigh impossible to tell the difference between your sincere points and caricature.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Dunno about the rest of you, but I simply can't see any point in trying to engage with Indifferently...... ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
When you provide a nuanced view, I will provide a nuanced retort.
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Bishop's Finger, you are undoubtedly correct, but....
[ 13. May 2013, 17:53: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Dunno about the rest of you, but I simply can't see any point in trying to engage with Indifferently......
Ian J.
The term "chew toy" comes to mind.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
When you provide a nuanced view, I will provide a nuanced retort.
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Bishop's Finger, you are undoubtedly correct, but....
I wouldn't hold your breath ...
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
Actually, I dealt with the points you raised but received no answer.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
The problem is that it's nigh impossible to tell the difference between your sincere points and caricature.
That's simple; Indifferently caricatures very sincerely indeed. I don't doubt his sincerity for one moment*.
*You may gather I reckon sincerity, like hard work, is way over-valued.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Why do misogynists always insist on calling women "ladies" anyway?
At least "ladies" is preferable to "females"...
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Yet more caricature. If you actually dealt with the points I raise rather than just resorting to the sort of useless caricature you do, it might be worth taking this seriously.
Actually, I dealt with the points you raised but received no answer.
Me too.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
There's no persecution of Christians in Great Britain. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals has put an end to the tradition of feeding Christians to lions.
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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