|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Resolved: Parishes should not offer unrestricted wireless internet access.
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
Resolved: Parishes should not offer unrestricted wireless internet access.
Why? Because:- Of the general liability due to offering the access.
- Of the possible use by folk attempting unauthorized access to third-party sites.
- Of the possible use to violate copyright laws.
- Of the possible use to violate criminal statutes.
- Of the large fraction of pr0n internet traffic in general.
- We create an attractive nuisance as folk discover the free access and camp out on the porches and steps in order to use the service. And, this in addition to the drinking and drugging and sex that already occurs on our bucolic patch in our modest urban setting.
- We Think of the Children™ and the unsuitable content they may access while away from their parents purview.
- We believe that folk should be tending to spiritual affairs when at church.
- We are horrified at the prospect of enabling the use of so-called social media during divine worship.
- Folk have been doing just fine without internet access at church for the last decade or two.
- If folk really need internet access they can contract themselves with their favorite bandwidth providers for their own devices.
- The last thing our minute staff and harried cohort of volunteers need is the imposed duty to keep the access available 24/7.
- Thick masonry construction guarantees dead zones and the inevitable complaints about poor coverage and poor throughput.
Are these prudent reasons or are they just troglodytic.
What are other consideration that may support or undermine the resolution?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
I'm confused as to why you'd consider it in the first place. How does it serve the mission of your church to provide WiFi?
Does your church operate a coffee shop or similar facility? In that case, providing free WiFi might be reasonable, just like Starbucks etc. Do you have function rooms that you make available for community events, or for hire or whatever? WiFi might be attractive to those users.
But in general, for a fairly typical church? I don't see how having public WiFi makes it easier to run the church, how it enhances worship, or how it helps proclaim the gospel.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I'm confused as to why you'd consider it in the first place.
We already have internet access in the offices, cabled to the office computers. quote:
How does it serve the mission of your church to provide WiFi?
With hard-cabled internet access it makes it harder to do church related work on devices brought from home.
quote:
Do you have function rooms that you make available for community events...
Yes, there is significant usage of this sort. And, some of the community groups have asked about wifi. quote:
I don't see how having public WiFi makes it easier to run the church...
Fundamentally, using the internet wirelessly is easier than being tethered.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
We already have internet access in the offices, cabled to the office computers.
Fundamentally, using the internet wirelessly is easier than being tethered.
Well, sure, but you wouldn't allow public access to your office network, surely? In your place, I would be more concerned about the security of the data on your office computers than on the chance that someone might download porn over the church network.
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Do you have function rooms that you make available for community events...
Yes, there is significant usage of this sort. And, some of the community groups have asked about wifi.
Is there a business case for it? Will the costs of providing WiFi to your users pay for themselves in increased or retained bookings?
You can pretty much eliminate the "undesirables camped out in your porch" issue by having a password, changing it on a regular basis and writing it on a wall in your meeting room(s).
I'm not sure that the horror of people social networking during the service is a real issue - enough people already have large data plans for their smartphones, and could already do that if they felt the urge. I suppose you could always turn it off during services if it was a problem.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Emily Windsor-Cragg
Shipmate
# 17687
|
Posted
Not having a cell phone at all (nor a tellie), I guess I'm just a Luddite way behind the times.
I prefer to speak to people within earshot, and I like to see their reactions.
The cellphone mania is something I deeply question as to its intention, almost as if it's an attempt to block the rest of the world except for an elite few whose stored numbers make them "yours."
But who knows?
Emily
Posts: 326 | From: California | Registered: May 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
All good reasons. People are clueless enough as it is by not turning off their cell phones. No sense further encouraging the use of electronic gadgetry.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
|
Posted
As it's an organisation's Wifi infrastructure, you coudl always feed through a content filter - something like Bluecoat kit..
Also a Wifi infrastructure allows for Bring Your Own Device models - including facilitating remote control of PA kit etc...
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Resolved: Parishes should not offer unrestricted wireless internet access.
Why? Because:- Of the general liability due to offering the access.
- Of the possible use by folk attempting unauthorized access to third-party sites.
- Of the possible use to violate copyright laws.
- Of the possible use to violate criminal statutes.
- Of the large fraction of pr0n internet traffic in general.
- We create an attractive nuisance as folk discover the free access and camp out on the porches and steps in order to use the service. And, this in addition to the drinking and drugging and sex that already occurs on our bucolic patch in our modest urban setting.
- We Think of the Children™ and the unsuitable content they may access while away from their parents purview.
- We believe that folk should be tending to spiritual affairs when at church.
- We are horrified at the prospect of enabling the use of so-called social media during divine worship.
- Folk have been doing just fine without internet access at church for the last decade or two.
- If folk really need internet access they can contract themselves with their favorite bandwidth providers for their own devices.
- The last thing our minute staff and harried cohort of volunteers need is the imposed duty to keep the access available 24/7.
- Thick masonry construction guarantees dead zones and the inevitable complaints about poor coverage and poor throughput.
Are these prudent reasons or are they just troglodytic.
What are other consideration that may support or undermine the resolution?
Are you trying to prevent the live Mystery Worshipper feed?
--------------------
Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
Posts: 1085 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
|
Posted
What Leorning Cniht Said.
Under no circumstances should you allow unsecured Wifi access to the church network. It's a simple matter of data protection, confidentiality and common sense.
Those doing work for the church and thus trusted can be given the key. Everyone else can whistle.
If you want to offer free Wifi access then as a minimum you should have a separate WAP and run it on a separate subnet via a router that can keep the two LANs discrete. It's not difficult or expensive, and anything else is just irresponsible.
As for wireless being better than cables, don't get me started ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
Why is this is an issue?
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
|
Posted
Hard to see how this is a big issue unless people are whipping out tablets during service. It's an amenity that's probably too expensive to give without a reason, such as third party use of conference rooms or a coffee shop. But does it really differ from a pay phone as long as it doesn't allow access to the Church internal network as mentioned by other posters.
I did have a momentary flash of a business opportunity. Not only could you block porn access if that bothers you but also inappropriate religious sites. You know.. Sh*p *f F**ls or sites offering purported Gnostic Gospels ;-)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
AndyB
Shipmate
# 10186
|
Posted
It's actually quite cheap. One church I know of has it in its cafe - against our advice, it's unlocked, but the actual cost was as follows:-
One broadband modem
Two routers
100m Cat5e cable (to get from the modem to the two routers, set up as slaves and acting as WAPs - one open and one locked)
Monthly cost of broadband with suitable usage limits
It was organised between myself, two people who used to help them and who got the parts and drilled holes respectively, and my mate who designed the work with me and did the configuration for free. That said, if it goes wrong, we will have to reset everything as we've forgotten the router passwords...
Posts: 149 | From: Belfast | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
|
Posted
In general, I think a password-restricted network for the employees and voluntary leaders to access when they need it for legitimate use is a good thing. For this to work there needs to be a good IT use policy which is signed by each volunteer leader who is granted access.
Extending this network (or having a second router) to groups using the facility is also a good thing, by either having that router switched on only during meetings requiring it or using a password changed after each hire is finished. Probably best to lock it down by dropping everything except ports 25 (SMTP), 80 (HTTP), 143 (IMAP), 465 (Secure SMTP) and 585 (Secure IMAP) for this though.
I see no reason for a 'public' network open to all though, unless you're running a cafe and offering complementary wireless. In those cases, best to restrict the speed available and lock down everything but port 80.
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
- We believe that folk should be tending to spiritual affairs when at church.
- We are horrified at the prospect of enabling the use of so-called social media during divine worship.
If this is a problem then your priest needs performance management, not to pin the blame on whatever 3G/4G/WiFi signal is available.
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Hard to see how this is a big issue unless people are whipping out tablets during service.
What's wrong with that? They do an excellent job of giving you access to the Bible and allowing note taking, all without annoying others around you with noisy rustling of papers or clicking of pens.
Not having connectivity shouldn't be a problem for people using a tablet/smartphone for this though. They just need to make sure they are using apps which store content locally (such as Glo for iOS, or some Bible translations on YouVersion for people on Android) and they'll be fine.
--------------------
If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
We have it throughout the campus (office system is secure), but the only times I know it's been used are by one parishioner who downloads books to her Kindle or Nook, and by volunteers at the Rummage Sale checking comparable prices on E-bay of any items that looks like it might be worth something. I don't think most people even know it's there.
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
My choral group rehearses in the parish hall of a local church. They have wireless access that is passworded, but with a very obvious password.
My group needs Internet access while we are rehearsing, in order to process credit-card payment of dues and to access certain resources that we keep on our website.
I don't know if church organizations use the wireless access, or if the church itself does, but I would assume they do.
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
It's pretty easy to have some security steps in place with a wifi network. I.E.: the network shows a presence, but any www.---.--- first brings up a portal which requires sign-up and sign in, with the user's knowledge that their gadget is identified. It's also quite possible to enable wifi access during specific times of day, on a schedule. This means when in a meeting, someone can wirelessly print a document without leaving the meeting and have it brought up to the meeting. Rather handy, that.
General public access? Not likely, though if the church operates any services for homeless, having a box or two so they can access things online under supervision and with filtering is entirely appropriate.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
My parish offers wireless. It has a password that's easily obtained by anyone using the building. Mind you, our doors are open pretty much from 7am-10pm every day with various renters and building partners coming in and out, and most of those aren't religious groups so offering wifi is just another perk for our tenants.
The thought of turning it unrestricted makes me choke up a little bit and I don't think I can yell "NO" fast enough. As it is, I'm a little worried about how freely the password's given out, and how rarely it's changed.
[ 06. June 2013, 18:11: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Something to consider:
In the late 80s/early 90s, there was a case here in N. Calif. where a couple of grade school or middle school boys were unsupervised at church. (Cleaning or something, IIRC.) They called a 900# (sex talk) from the church office, listened, and ran up quite a bill. No one found out.
The parents of one of the boys owned a daycare center. The boy(s) went there, and did the things from the sex call to one of the kids.
So a child was abused and traumatized; one or two boys (don't remember if both were involved) became sexual perpetrators; the parents lost their day care business...
Now, imagine if they'd had web access at church, instead of a phone...
And if they posted sexual pics of themselves--or their victim...
Don't have unrestricted wi-fi at church--and make sure the computers there have good security, and aren't left unattended *and* logged on.
The only good reason I can think of to have wi-fi at church at all is if someone with special needs, of some sort, needs to access something that will help them get through church.
Church doesn't have to be hi-tech.
[ 07. June 2013, 00:48: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
OK, playing the hacker's advocate.
Of the general liability due to offering the access.
Can't be a serious problem seeing how many unsecured wifi networks there are and how few of their owners get done for anything (basically, none)
Of the possible use by folk attempting unauthorized access to third-party sites.
And how does that inconvenience us? Its between the unauthorised attempted and the fool who lets them onto their site.
Of the possible use to violate copyright laws.
And how does that inconvenience us? Its between the copyright violator and the fool who lets them download the latest Hollywood nonsense. If you get an email from a robot lawyer in California (*) complaining about it you just reply and say it was a temporary user who has now gone.
Of the possible use to violate criminal statutes.
And how does that inconvenience us? The cops can't confiscate what we don't log, and they can't do us for what others use out network for without permnission.
Of the large fraction of pr0n internet traffic in general.
Actually it isn't much really. Most actual Intenet traffic is computers talkign to each other saying the equivalnet of "I'm still here, are you still there?" And a surprising amount of what isn't is people scannign your network so they can pwn your bot. Porn is one of the larger categories of data sent over the Net, but not the biggest.
We create an attractive nuisance as folk discover the free access and camp out on the porches and steps in order to use the service. And, this in addition to the drinking and drugging and sex that already occurs on our bucolic patch in our modest urban setting.
Whatever brings them to the door is an opportunity we can use. If they can sit on our church doorstep and see nothing that interests or attracts them maybe we're doing it wrong.
We Think of the Children™ and the unsuitable content they may access while away from their parents purview.
They all have 3G smartphones already.
We believe that folk should be tending to spiritual affairs when at church.
They all have 3G smartphones already.
We are horrified at the prospect of enabling the use of so-called social media during divine worship.
They all have 3G smartphones already.
Folk have been doing just fine without internet access at church for the last decade or two.
They all have 3G smartphones already. And depending what point in history you want to rewind to folk have been doing just fine just fine without candles, carpets, central heating, electric lights, glass in the windows, hearing aids, microphones, personal portable Bibles, pews, prayer books, projection screens, pulpits, service sheets, set liturgy, stained glass, surplices, thuribles, vernacular liturgy, and loads of other technological marvels.
If folk really need internet access they can contract themselves with their favorite bandwidth providers for their own devices.
They all have 3G smartphones already. Wifi is cheaper and quicker. If we provide it because its more convenient for us, why do we care if others make use of some of the bandwidth when we aren't using it?
The last thing our minute staff and harried cohort of volunteers need is the imposed duty to keep the access available 24/7.
If the access is informal, not paid for, and doesn't require anyone to sign up to anything, you have no duty to keep it available., As soon as you start dishing out secret codes and written agreements, you do.
Thick masonry construction guarantees dead zones and the inevitable complaints about poor coverage and poor throughput.
So just put it in the places it works then. It doesn'tt have to be perfect. Our sound system is crap and our central heating is crap but we manage not to foght over them.
(*) If see about one or two emails from a robot lawyers in California a week in my day job. But we have thousands of computers and hundreds of wireless access points. Your church won't. It's probably have one in the office, one in the vestry, one at the back of the nave, and maybe one in the drafty upstairs hall. You'd be unlucky to see two complaints a year.
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
ken: Most actual Intenet traffic is computers talkign to each other saying the equivalnet of "I'm still here, are you still there?"
I guess we could call this computer porn
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
quote:
Ken said:
Thick masonry construction guarantees dead zones and the inevitable complaints about poor coverage and poor throughput.
So just put it in the places it works then. It doesn'tt have to be perfect. Our sound system is crap and our central heating is crap but we manage not to foght over them.
There really is a church that has managed NOT to fight over the heating system!!!
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Perhaps you have not tried suggesting they spend some money on it.
Jengie
[ 07. June 2013, 20:05: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
I just want them to turn it off because its so noisy. Put another jumper on if you are cold!
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
quote:
ken trifles with his survival:
Put another jumper on if you are cold!
You go and try telling that to the West Indian ladies!
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
ken trifles with his survival:
Put another jumper on if you are cold!
You go and try telling that to the West Indian ladies!
Is a regular problem at work. On the bright side it means I get to sit by the window so she can sit near the heater ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I even get a view. I can see some trees, two vans,. two skips, the back of SOAS library, and occasional students.
It was differently interesting on the other side of the office where I could see into the RADA changing rooms.
This is nothing to do with the OP, but I am at work on a Saturday morning, so my mind wanders.
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
|
Posted
I can't understand your hostility to this. We've all got portable wifi enabled devices that we carry with us everywhere. Wifi hotspots are expensive and few and far between. We need more access available. If you've got a wifi connection you hardly use, just open it up to the world. Make everything free.
If you don't like free no-strings-attached, then why not a FON hotspot? I have one of these in my own home. It shares your wifi with anyone who's a member and gives you unlimited access to other members' wifi.
--------------------
there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Is a regular problem at work. On the bright side it means I get to sit by the window so she can sit near the heater
We have a similar, possibly opposite problem. Now that it is officially summer, the building cooling is on, and it's, well, not a modern installation. It's officially summer, but fairly mild outside, so my office is freezing cold. I have to bring a jumper and a pair of gloves to work, on a warm summer's day, so that I'm not too cold sitting at my desk. There's a guy down the hall who is currently running an electric heater to counteract the effects of the building cooling.
Energy efficient this ain't, but apparently installing something modern and efficient would cost some heinous amount of money that we don't have, so here we sit...
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Wifi hotspots are expensive and few and far between.
Really?
I have WiFi in my house. I have WiFi at work. There is free WiFi, and desks, at the public library, and there's free WiFi at Starbucks, and many other coffee shops and the like. At least one of the bars I go to has free WiFi (I've never checked the others).
The last time I've found myself wanting WiFi and not being able to get it easily was on a train in Japan. There was WiFi, but you had to purchase some kind of service to get it, and and I don't speak Japanese, so couldn't understand what was required.
But then I got to the hotel, which had free WiFi.
Are things that different in the UK?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Hairy Biker--
Actually, not everyone carries wi-fi enabled devices. I don't. I don't even have any. I've got a desktop PC, and a very simple cell phone.
FWIW.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
|
Posted
LC
Your ease of wifi access may reflect pond sifferences, but also separates urban and rural.
In our little town one pub/B&B advertises wifi access but I'm fairly sure they are alone though many of us use wifi within our homes.
Not far away and the internet speeds are well below the urban expectations.
--------------------
http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
