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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Copyright Ignorance
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
We've had yet another thread spoiled by hostly copyright ignorance. Really, we need the Admins to bash some heads together on this one, but I will give as brief as possible a summary of what hosts need to know to avoid looking like jerks on this subject and bringing their positions into disrepute.
A quick look at any WHOIS site will give the location of this website as being in London. This means that English law applies.
Copyright in England and Wales is regulated under the Duration of Copyright and Rights in Performance Regulations 1995 (section 5 covers what's at issue here). What these did was to lengthen the period of copyright from being the author's death plus 50 years to author's death plus 70 years for works that were still in copyright at that time (if you think about it, that was a necessary safeguard, so that anyone who, say, published a hymnal between 1975 and 1994 wasn't deluged with retrospective copyright claims). The result of this is that until December 31st, 2015, we have a static copyright horizon: the work of any author who died in 1944 or earlier is in the public domain (with two exceptions: Crown Copyright and, rather absurdly, Peter Pan).
The result of this is that if someone posts an extract of any length from some literary work and quotes the author's death date as being 1944 or earlier (which is usually an easily-verified fact), there is no "potential copyright violation". Asserting this just makes you look woefully ill-informed, and everyone else is going to conclude that you are abusing your hostly immunity from being dragged to Hell to violate the 1st Commandment and be a complete jerk.
I am also alarmed that "fair dealing" as defined by the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 -- here, one presumes, for the purposes of criticism or review -- seems to have been misinterpreted into an unlinked-to policy (does it even exist outside someone's head, one may well wonder) that only restricts the quoting of any verse to two stanzas. If this is in fact the case, this both misinterprets the law in a way that is needlessly restrictive and that is dangerously loose. The legal tests of this are not about length of quotation in absolute terms, but rather:
a) that it's not a publication of someone else's pre-publication work without their permission;
b) that an adequate acknowledgement is provided;
c) that the quote is accompanied by some actual discussion to merit the quote (this is in practice the most important point, and the one that length obsessions most neglect); and:
d) that the length of the quotation is no more than is necessary for the discussion (which obviously could be far more or far less than two stanzas).
I can see the merits of a length policy on other grounds. If someone were, say, to post the entire text of William Tyndale's New Testament to this board, it would be extremely annoying to scroll past, and it could quite conceivably slow the Ship down (or in the worst case, crash the server). It would be an obvious case of being a jerk. But that really isn't about copyright in the slightest, and it is important that copyright isn't trivialized into some sort of pathetic elf'n'safety-style excuse.
So please, Admins, could you make sure that the Hosts are better informed on this subject?
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
Posts: 446 | From: Llantrisant | Registered: Feb 2012
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
Which thread are you talking about please?
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
So please, Admins, could you make sure that the Hosts are better informed on this subject?
No. We stand by our conservative approach to copyright.
Blithe assertions about jurisdiction are misguided, as our servers are not necessarily located in the UK. Likewise, our standards are both easy to understand and easy to enforce, unlike the often-arguable nature of constantly-shifting copyright laws.
Hopefully this makes you better-informed about The Ship of Fools.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Links are our friends.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
I for one see no problem in erring on the conservative side on this, just to be absolutely sure the Ship won't even have to bother consulting with a lawyer about anything. It's almost always easy enough to link the sorts of texts people tend to discuss here.
Quoting from academic works is sometimes the exception, in which case it makes sense to be conservative with the quoting, and, where possible, put it in your own words. It's rare that anyone would be quoting a book or article here and the discussion would hinge on the exact wording in a long excerpt.
IMO.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Most of the Hosts and Admins are not lawyers, and personally my knowledge of copyright law is (1) mostly dating from 1997, with some patchy updates on various occasions when my work has required it and (2) based on Australian law.
I think you're completely barking up the wrong tree to think that Hosts and Admins ought to be experts in this kind of thing.
I mean, how many people would know that Peter Pan is an exception to the normal rules? Even amongst UK lawyers, most of those who don't deal with intellectual property as a major part of their practice wouldn't be aware of something like that. Do you expect knowing that to be a qualification for hosting?
If you want to assert that we're ignorant and ill-informed by the standards you're setting, go ahead. It's true. But that's the point. Being ignorant and ill-informed, we'd much rather be wrong by forbidding things we don't have to forbid, instead of wrongly allowing things we shouldn't allow.
[ 22. September 2013, 01:36: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
By the way, here's a link to the thread I suspect we're actually talking about.
Describing the thread as spoiled is a bit much in my opinion. Seasick inserted a link to the full text of the hymn. In other words, no information has been lost at all.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Pererin, a lot of what you set out is highly debatable in many places where the Ship is read. It is unrealistic and unfair to expect the Hosts and Admins to be aware of all the detail of copyright law in England, let alone all these either places.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Before you think these exceptions will never be quoted on the ship, Copyright for King James Bible is vested in the Crown and still in force.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I love the Ship and I would hate it to be shut down because someone had inadvertently broken copyright laws, and that would be the risk we'd run.
I don't think it would be fair on the Hosts and Admins to add to their responsibilities in this way. We might even have to double their pay ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .
Also I am very impressed with myself beacuse I did know about the Peter Pan exception (whereas I have little knowledge of copyright in general.)
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
I gleaned the gist of pererin's post to suggest that the way that some of the mods apply this local interpretation of the law is a tad anally-retentive. It would be hard not to sympathise with that view. Sometimes it's like watching Arnold Rimmer in full flow.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I gleaned the gist of pererin's post to suggest that the way that some of the mods apply this local interpretation of the law is a tad anally-retentive.
I think I'd go with 'consistent' myself.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I gleaned the gist of pererin's post to suggest that the way that some of the mods apply this local interpretation of the law is a tad anally-retentive. It would be hard not to sympathise with that view. Sometimes it's like watching Arnold Rimmer in full flow.
Serious question: As you so obviously hate the way the boards are run, why do you stay here?
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Including a short extract and then linking to the main content is no hardship whatever. Clicking on said content is no hardship either.
In fact, long quotes are tedious - it's better to be able to choose to click the link and read on.
I agree with Firenze - the hosts are consistent with the Ship's copyright rules, and these rules make sense, considering the international nature of the Ship.
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Let me just say that prior to ordination, I worked in the IP industry and have taken (and passed!) exams in British copyright law. I happen to think the Ship's policy is extremely sensible and am more than happy to apply it as best as I am able.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Sometimes it's like watching Arnold Rimmer in full flow.
That's Ace Rimmer to you.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Spike -
I don't hate the way the boards are run - don't know where you got that from. I think it's the best run board I've ever been on, and have said so before. Maybe you draw that conclusion from my reluctance to join in the bowing and scraping that occasionally goes on combined with my preparedness to point out what I consider to be failings, which you can take or leave, of course.
I worked for a very large company which was very well run. There were many sectors and departments, and they were well organised and generally well run. What I observed was that as personnel changed (and there was always a lot of churn) the efficiency of each department would vary. No matter how well-organised and designed the departmental structure was, and how effective the rules of operation were, the quality of the incumbents governed the quality of the output. When weaknesses became apparent, strong management was needed to make changes to remedy this.
I stay here because I generally enjoy reading the exchanges and discussions. I'm sorry you don't like me, which you've made apparent before, but that's how life is. I'm a gregarious sort in my own way, used to engaging with groups of people. Perhaps your life is different.
Firenze -
Regarding the interpretation of copyright law, I'm not allowed to comment on the only time that stroke has been pulled on me, but I will go as far as to say that it didn't comply with your suggestion of consistency.
RooK -
all I have to say to you is: smoke me a kipper.
▲
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Firenze -
Regarding the interpretation of copyright law, I'm not allowed to comment on the only time that stroke has been pulled on me, but I will go as far as to say that it didn't comply with your suggestion of consistency.
'I could have bore it with a thankful art. But the words...spoke...lambs could not forgive. No, Betsey!' said Mrs Gamp, in a violent burst of feeling, 'nor worms forget'.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Firenze -
Regarding the interpretation of copyright law, I'm not allowed to comment on the only time that stroke has been pulled on me, but I will go as far as to say that it didn't comply with your suggestion of consistency.
'I could have bore it with a thankful art. But the words...spoke...lambs could not forgive. No, Betsey!' said Mrs Gamp, in a violent burst of feeling, 'nor worms forget'.
Perhaps so, perhaps so.
I comfort myself that with all his "engaging" features (see what I did there?) I'm sure "He'd make a lovely corpse."
<sadface>
Still, that was in another country, and besides, etc. etc. etc.
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Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I love the Ship and I would hate it to be shut down because someone had inadvertently broken copyright laws, and that would be the risk we'd run.
Even if no copyright is is broken if someone sues funds are needed to defend the case. If the Ship does not have those funds it could close down.
We must be cautious not only to be within the law, but not too close to the edges as to attract litigation. Caution is good.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Firenze -
Regarding the interpretation of copyright law, I'm not allowed to comment on the only time that stroke has been pulled on me, but I will go as far as to say that it didn't comply with your suggestion of consistency.
'I could have bore it with a thankful art. But the words...spoke...lambs could not forgive. No, Betsey!' said Mrs Gamp, in a violent burst of feeling, 'nor worms forget'.
Perhaps so, perhaps so.
I comfort myself that with all his "engaging" features (see what I did there?) I'm sure "He'd make a lovely corpse."
<sadface>
Still, that was in another country, and besides, etc. etc. etc.
*******
<tangent>
I am intrigued, what is the significance of the triangle at the end of your posts here ? </tangent>
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Nothing of significance, Dt, just something in place of a sig. It's an alt-code. Usually I have poetry or song in my sig, but if my muse is resting, this acts as a filler - kind of closes a post off.
I'm toying with something from Kathleen Edwards as a sig.
*******
(although it looks as though someone has disabled it - I'm sure there's a good mature reason)
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
Let me just say that prior to ordination, I worked in the IP industry and have taken (and passed!) exams in British copyright law. I happen to think the Ship's policy is extremely sensible and am more than happy to apply it as best as I am able.
Speaking as someone who worked on IP policy and legislation in the UK and EU, I agree seasick's view and believe the Hosts' approach is correct. Copyright lawyers are particularly litigious and I think that the Ship cannot afford to be anything other than conservative in this area. As I understand the developing law on Internet violations of IP and other statute, location of server is not necessarily the key factor in deciding whose law applies.
However, I am not a lawyer, merely a civil servant, and YMMV.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
pererin--
--The Ship cannot afford legal trouble.
--Copyright owners can be very litigious.
--The H/As are all unpaid volunteers. They do occasionally have the responsibilities of day jobs to occupy them--and, once in a while, they even have lives. (H/As on the loose?)
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
To paraphrase a song* from the movie "Safari 3000":
H/As on the road, H/As on the road,
I'd rather see a rain of toads
Than hear that sad cry,
"H/As on the road"!
--Therefore, Shipmates do the responsible thing and post reasonably short quotes, with a link to where the quote and/or the source was found.
--It's sometimes a pain, but it works. And it's far better than having the Ship capsize due to a barrage of legal actions.
Read, learn, and inwardly digest. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
*Lyrics unavailable.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I worked for a very large company which was very well run. There were many sectors and departments, and they were well organised and generally well run. What I observed was that as personnel changed (and there was always a lot of churn) the efficiency of each department would vary. No matter how well-organised and designed the departmental structure was, and how effective the rules of operation were, the quality of the incumbents governed the quality of the output. When weaknesses became apparent, strong management was needed to make changes to remedy this.
And how does this uplifting experience apply to an organization entirely staffed and run by volunteers as opposed to personnel earning salaries and benefits?
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
I should have thought that whether one is a volunteer or salaried makes no great difference to one's efficiency. I speak as someone who has been a fairly incomptetent unpaid treasurer for two amateur organisations. To quote C.S.Lewis, who was apparently a bursar at one time for his college "No-one who was involved in the experience has had the slightest desire to repeat it."
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
I should have thought that whether one is a volunteer or salaried makes no great difference to one's efficiency.
Perhaps not, but it does make a very large difference to the hiring process and the selection criteria.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
While we're on the subject, there's something I'm not sure about with regard to the Ship's copyright policy. Are we on safe ground if we link to a site that may, itself, be in breach of copyright, or should we avoid such links, too? An obvious example would be a youtube clip of a copyright music recording.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Yes, you can post links to things posted elsewhere.
[ETA: Hosts will check that links actually go somewhere, and do not go to sites advocating illegal activity or directly to sites of a particularly objectionable nature, eg: explicit sexual content. Also, links to YouTube and similar can sometimes take a long time to load and run, adding to the time commitment expected of hosts. So, please avoid too much work for the hosts by being moderate in the number of links you post]
[ 23. September 2013, 12:32: Message edited by: Alan Cresswell ]
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
And how does this uplifting experience apply to an organization entirely staffed and run by volunteers as opposed to personnel earning salaries and benefits?
Just relating my own experience. Are you suggesting that being a volunteer removes any requirement to have skills? That would be an unusual approach.
▼
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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David
Complete Bastard
# 3
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
We've had yet another thread spoiled by hostly copyright ignorance. Really, we need the Admins to bash some heads together on this one, but I will give as brief as possible a summary of what hosts need to know to avoid looking like jerks on this subject and bringing their positions into disrepute.
A quick look at any WHOIS site will give the location of this zzzzzz website as being in London. This means that zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz English law applies.
Copyright in England and Wales is regulated under the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
shit I fell asleep on the keyboard and accidentally deleted some really interesting prose
The way I understand it, the Ship's copyright rules are expressed in such a way that people don't have to read drivel that isn't yours. Otherwise, nobody would know who to insult.
Posts: 3815 | From: Redneck Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Yes, you can post links to things posted elsewhere.
[ETA: Hosts will check that links actually go somewhere, and do not go to sites advocating illegal activity or directly to sites of a particularly objectionable nature, eg: explicit sexual content. Also, links to YouTube and similar can sometimes take a long time to load and run, adding to the time commitment expected of hosts. So, please avoid too much work for the hosts by being moderate in the number of links you post]
It had never occurred to me that as well as reading our posts, the hosts would have to read/listen to/view the links too. Dear God! Where do I donate chocolate?
(It says something of my internet naivety that it had also never occurred to me that a link to Tristan und Isolde might segue halfway through to Tristan Does Isolde.)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Just send GIN! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...(It says something of my internet naivety that it had also never occurred to me that a link to Tristan und Isolde might segue halfway through to Tristan Does Isolde.)
That would have to be more interesting than them constantly shouting "Tristan" - "Isolde" at one another across the stage!
p.s. I am not a Wagnerian, apart from Maestersinger.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
I should have thought that whether one is a volunteer or salaried makes no great difference to one's efficiency.
No, but it makes a great difference how much it is reasonable to ask them to do.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
If the dress code at the party in Simon's house says "No Kilts" I for one would hope to have the manners to not wear a kilt.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
If the dress code at the party in Simon's house says "No Kilts" I for one would hope to have the manners to not wear a kilt.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
I for one would hope you have the manners to wear trousers.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
We're partying at Simon's? ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Hmmm...now, what potluck dish shall I bring?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Humble pie.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
Is the Ship's copyright policy set out somewhere?
Not in the detail that you might like.
The main kernel is Commandment 7, which is intentionally vague. From a practical point of view, we have developed a practice of preferring links to works on other sites and trying to keep quotes to just a few key sentences. And we do not expect any Host to know the details of any copyright circumstance, so to always default to assuming the most conservative stance.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
A quick look at any WHOIS site will give the location of this website as being in London. This means that English law applies.
[/QB]
WHOIS shows that my business website is registered in Arizona. The business is located in another country, Canada, but WHOIS doesn't tell you that. Only a lunatic would tangle with the law in Arizona. I've stayed out of trouble so far, but I hope you are wrong about that.
As far as the Ship's policy is concerned, it does seem cautious and conservative to me. However, it works, and it doesn't usually take much effort to fill in missing information when the need arises.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
[QUOTE]
A quick look at any WHOIS site will give the location of this website as being in London. This means that English law applies.
I think it is more complicated than that. The domain and ip info indicates registration in one location and server info for a host of countries with a primary location. The wisest thing to do is avoid any controversy always that involves any expenses, explanations and lawyers etc.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
Is the Ship's copyright policy set out somewhere?
Not in the detail that you might like.
The main kernel is Commandment 7, which is intentionally vague. From a practical point of view, we have developed a practice of preferring links to works on other sites and trying to keep quotes to just a few key sentences. And we do not expect any Host to know the details of any copyright circumstance, so to always default to assuming the most conservative stance.
The problem is that the policy as stated is actually misleading, because it implicitly invites people to post whatever they like as long as they don't believe it to be a copyright violation (which, given the global nature of the Ship and the increasing insanity of IP law is an invitation to chaos). It would be more helpful (and accurate) to say something like "don't quote more than three sentences of anything." Or something like that.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
So ... has Leo been suspended/banned for quoting from his own blog, or because you (PTB) can't be certain that the blog he says he quoted from is his own?
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Or because he violated the terms of the last warning he was given by the Admins.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Yes, I understand there was a previous warning about possible copyright violations, but I don't recall the detail. I'm asking about the principle of copying from one's own blog. So, I can link to a blog in my sig, and say it's my blog, but I can't quote from it, because there would still be doubt that it really is mine? And would this not then apply to shipmates who post under their real names?
[ 15. October 2013, 06:44: Message edited by: QLib ]
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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rufiki
Ship's 'shroom
# 11165
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Posted
I think that, even if the blog is yours, you don't necessarily own the content once it's published. It depends on the T&Cs you agreed with the company that hosts it.
Posts: 1562 | Registered: Mar 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
My recollection - and I emphasise that this is purely mental recollection at this point and that I haven't yet hunted down the precise terms of leo's warning - was that the warning related to leo claiming material as his own thoughts that turned out not to be his own thoughts at all.
I don't think that would lead us to presume, in other cases, that the material on a Shipmate's blog was not their own. I'm fairly sure on occasion that people have linked to their own blogs without any kind of fuss occurring, because there hasn't been this extra element of it either being proved or admitted in a previous case that the material came from elsewhere.
[ 15. October 2013, 07:25: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
NB I also don't know what might have been admitted or proved in this new case. In Hell leo says it comes from a paper he did in 1999. Zach appears sceptical of this. Personally I haven't investigated any further and I don't know what evidence is available. It is certain, at least, that leo's blog is not the original source of the material.
Basically I'm just pointing out that the context is not simply 'I've linked to my blog'. There's rather more to it than that.
[ 15. October 2013, 07:29: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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