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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What can we say about God?
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
Has anyone else read 'The Case for God' by Karen Armstrong?
As I understand her, she says that however we attempt to describe God, whatever we say, is flawed because all language restricts, and God cannot be restricted in any way.
The people of the Old Testament have a robust relationship with God.
He is open to persuasion, can be appelled to, is open to debate, can change His mind, can be irascible, loose His cool, in fact very similar to human beings!
(A side issue: Have we made God in our own likeness?)
What can we say about God?
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Errm.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
"Errm" is probably as good an answer as any.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
I haven't read the book but whilst I see the point that ultimately God is God and we can't expect to understand everything about him (Quetzalcoatl and I ended up there on another thread) I'm not convinced by the language argument, simply, because if you push that too far then no meaningful conversation about anything is possible. Ultimately we all have different ideas, experiences and contexts in our heads and so you could say that there is therefore always a disconnect between what people mean and how what they say is received (as evidenced on board Ship!).
However, in practice, I think human beings are pretty good at managing to grasp the underlying meaning behind language (if I say the sky is blue people know what I mean they don't expect the sky to be a specific Pantone colour). Otherwise pretty much human society would be impossible (as would any kind of meaningful conversation on board Ship).
Therefore if God chooses to reveal himself in language (i.e. a language we can understand) we can still have a meaningful discussion about what God is like. If God is love we have lots of other language and experience to help us understand what love is so this is a meaningful thing that we can know about God. We also have the revelation of the character of God in the behaviour of Jesus (though this is only available to us through the medium of language as we weren't there).
Also I guess this is why dialogue is important so we can gain insight from other viewpoints. That's why I like these boards.
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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek
Posts: 438 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Is this another instance where someone publishes a book with a cool slightly polemic sounding title, containing information that every first year Theology student has known for a long time?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Is this another instance where someone publishes a book with a cool slightly polemic sounding title, containing information that every first year Theology student has known for a long time?
I've got the book on my shelf, but haven't read it yet. However, I believe it's aimed at the intelligent general reader, not at official students of Theology.
Anyway, the cynic in me says that theologians need to make a living, so it doesn't matter how inadequate their (or anyone's) pronouncements on God may be; we will still have more and more books on the subject.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
As the character, Jane, on the romcom series "Coupling" once offered, "Well, He's good, isn't he?" (Of course, in the same episode she also advised, "God is just a made-up person".)
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Is this another instance where someone publishes a book with a cool slightly polemic sounding title, containing information that every first year Theology student has known for a long time?
I read it ages ago and that would be my opinion.
She did give a lovely History of It All including Denis the Stylite which was nice though.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
One interesting tactic is to make guesses about God. This is fun, and you can always justify them with some more guesses, then you have a whole career mapped out, possibly.
[ 08. November 2013, 14:06: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I rather like the phrase 'God is Love, and where true love is, God himself is there'.
now define true love....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
IMHO, I think we can talk about God, but we must recognise that words will simply fall short. That doesn't mean we can't (or shouldn't) make a meaningful effort.
In other words, it is not untruthful to make statements like "God is love", "God is just" or "God is almighty" - it's just that we acknowledge that they aren't necessarily the whole picture.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
What can we say about God ?
Christ knows . ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
"Errm" is probably as good an answer as any.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Is this another instance where someone publishes a book with a cool slightly polemic sounding title, containing information that every first year Theology student has known for a long time?
I don't think so. What you describe is usually the M.O. of ivory tower nobodies who want to have 15 minutes of fame before they die. Armstrong has been publishing thoughtful but accessible books about religion for decades.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
mousethief: I don't think so. What you describe is usually the M.O. of ivory tower nobodies who want to have 15 minutes of fame before they die. Armstrong has been publishing thoughtful but accessible books about religion for decades.
Ok, I was just asking. I hadn't heard of Karen Armstrong.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
God is a mystery, but many people have glimpses that together give us clues as to God's nature
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein
As I understand her, she says that however we attempt to describe God, whatever we say, is flawed because all language restricts, and God cannot be restricted in any way.
But it is simply not true to say that "all language restricts".
For example, how does the verb 'exist' restrict? It only restricts God from not existing! And non-existence is the greatest restriction of them all.
But if all language does restrict, then the very claim that "all language restricts" is also restrictive (it being composed of mere words), and therefore how much validity does it have? Therefore the discussion introduced by the OP becomes self-refuting.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Aslan was thought to be good but not SAFE. Would that do?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Kwesi
Shipmate
# 10274
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Posted
I suppose you can say whatever you like about God. In a Christian context, of course, any proposition would have to be compatible with his revelation in Jesus Christ. (That is not to deny there is wide spectrum of opinion as to what that revelation was).
Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Rowan Williams is talking about language and God in his Gifford lectures at the moment. One of the things he's trying to argue is that language about God is language pushing beyond its own limits. The process of making sense of the world in language eventually rests upon something that language cannot make sense of, but which it has to keep pointing towards.
I think 'language restricts' is an odd metaphor. The problem isn't verbal - as if we can have an unmediated awareness of God that gets spoiled by talking about it. Rather, it's that we can't have a direct comprehension of God as finite beings, and therefore our language about God can only refer to God indirectly. So for instance, when we say God is love, we're not making a direct statement about God. What we're doing is that we can, with some difficulty, come to some way of talking sense about love, and we can see that love points us towards God.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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