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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Tipping
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
All four of my daughters worked in restaurants when they were students and they all relied on tips as an important part of their income.
I was brought up by an American mother and an Irish father and I was taught to tip anyone who had provided me with a service such a waiter, hairdresser or cab driver. I was also taught to give a Christmas tip to anyone who had supplied a service throughout the year such as postal/ milk delivery.
I have quite a few friends who refuse to tip at all and they get quite hot under the collar about it. I find it a minefield (kindness v condescension) and once a new hairdresser I visited refused a tip and was a little bit insulted..... ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) .
So my questions are:
Do you tip?
If so, whom,when and what?
And what would be your rationale for tipping/ not tipping?
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
In the Netherlands, restaurant prices are so high that I wouldn't dream of tipping even 10%. I usually round the price upwards and that's it.
Here in Brazil, a 10% service fee is usually included in the bill.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
In short, it depends upon the custom where you are receiving the tippable (or not) service.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Here in Canada, I almost always tip 15% unless the service is incredibly lousy in which case the tip drops to 10 or a bit lower.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Rant Alert
I really resent tipping. I'd go further than this, and ask how anyone can rationally think otherwise?
If I go to a restaurant, why should the proprietor expect me to pay his staff to bring the food to the table? And why should he expect me to pay part of his staff's wages for him just so that he can make his prices look lower on the board outside.
And why should one be expected to leave a tip in a cafe or a restaurant when one doesn't in a pub?
And if the Inland Revenue is taxing people on the assumption they are getting tips when they aren't, that's even worse.
Having said that, I do usually comply with convention on all these occasions and pay up. After all, it isn't the waiter's fault that his grasping employer doesn't pay properly.
And why is there a collection for the driver on a coach outing when you don't pay a tip on your bus fare or train fare?
End of Rant Alert
I should add, it's rare here, and would be regarded as ostentatious or a bit odd, to tip more than 10%.
[ 13. January 2014, 15:16: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Here in Canada, I almost always tip 15% unless the service is incredibly lousy in which case the tip drops to 10 or a bit lower.
Do you attempt to determine if the service is lousy due to the negligence of the waiter versus due to the management scheduling too few waiters for the number of tables in service? You may still be punishing the wrong person.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Enoch, things may be different in the UK. Here in the States it was common in the 1980s for waiters to be paid $2.50 an hour (the minimum wage at the time was $3.40), and they were expected to make up the difference in their tips. If they made no tips, they were working for less than minimum wage.
The minimum wage is now higher, of course, and I imagine waiters' hourly wages are also higher, though in most places still well below minimum. Some cities have "living wage" laws that require all employers to pay a basic wage set by the city, and I don't know how restaurant employees are affected by those.
In any case, you pay. If tipping is not a custom in the locale, then restaurant prices have to be higher to support the higher wages of the servers, bus boys, et al. If tipping is a custom, the menu prices are lower, but tips are expected to cover the cost of labor. What is absolutely not cool is refusing to tip on some spurious principle that it's "extortive" or whatever. In the US, tipping is part of the cost of eating out. You factor it in. If you can't afford the 15% tip to the server, then you can't afford to go to a restaurant. Simple as that.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Mousethief:I can usually tell if the service is the fault of the waiter or management. Usually, it takes rudeness and/or abject neglect for me to reduce a tip.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
As others have said, local practices vary: when we tried to tip a taxi driver in Reykjavik he very politely, but equally firmly, refused.
The usual practice here in Canada seems to be to tip about 15%, unless a service charge is specified.
I'm reminded of an excruciatingly embarrassing situation when six of us had a very long wait for our food at an up-market restaurant where we were well-known to the owners. It was New Year's Eve, the restaurant had rather overstretched themselves with bookings and our main courses didn't arrive until 11:45 (we'd been there since about 9:00). When the bills arrived, one of the party refused to pay the service charge specified for parties of six or more. I could sort of see his point, but I felt very sorry for the waitress, whose fault it wasn't (cf. what Mousethief said).
It was about 18 months before we had the nerve to go back ...
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
It's very much a cultural thing.
Round here you tip if you found the service especially good - it's not expected.
I tip the hairdresser, but not the taxi driver. We tip in restaurants but only if the service was good.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
My Canadian experience: tipping is restaurants is expected, tipping for other services is not expected. Some people do, and this is a creeping influence I believe from the American experience where tips are more common for other services.
About penalizing the wrong person re restaurant tips. Tips go into a tip pool and and split among the staff in most. So everyone benefits and suffers.
When we were poor tips were very carefully considered. Not poor now, so much freer with them. This is probably as influential as quality of service.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
Enoch, things may be different in the UK. Here in the States it was common in the 1980s for waiters to be paid $2.50 an hour (the minimum wage at the time was $3.40),
Which is the problem of course. "minimum wage" doesn't mean "minimum wage" in that system - it means "minimum wage for everyone except the poor, recent immigrants, ethnic the old, the young, the homeless, niggers of all colours, ethnic minorites in general, Muslims, migrant workers, cripples and everyone else we don't like for values of "we" including right-wing Republican-voting business-owning millionaires".
And the way to fix it for the majority of Americans to start voting in their own interests instead of those of their oppressors. And maybe organising a few decent unions. So that the minimum-wage laws they already have can be enforced instead of ignored by the bosses.
But this is an old, old, thread.
[ 13. January 2014, 16:11: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
If tipping is not a custom in the locale, then restaurant prices have to be higher to support the higher wages of the servers, bus boys, et al. If tipping is a custom, the menu prices are lower, but tips are expected to cover the cost of labor.
Presumably this works out to roughly the same amount that each diner actually pays, so why not just increase prices and wages and abolish tipping?
That way, any potential diner looking at the menu won't have to perform mental arithmetic to work out how much their meal is really going to cost.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
In the US, tipping is part of the cost of eating out. You factor it in. If you can't afford the 15% tip to the server, then you can't afford to go to a restaurant. Simple as that.
I agree with this.
However, I still do not like the US system.
1. Not all servers end the day with the equivalent of a reasonable wage.
2. People should be cognizant of the total cost of any transaction. However it is a demonstrated fact that they are not.
And the server is the one screwed if the total is not properly considered.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Originally Posted by MtM
quote:
That way, any potential diner looking at the menu won't have to perform mental arithmetic to work out how much their meal is really going to cost.
US establishments also leave tax out of their pricing.
[ 13. January 2014, 16:25: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Marvin the Martian: That way, any potential diner looking at the menu won't have to perform mental arithmetic to work out how much their meal is really going to cost.
We had big problems with this when we were in Russia. We ordered from the menu, and I usually paid a 10–15% tip and then rounded upwards.
But in the end, we always ended up with too little money on the table. Sometimes it caused strange looks between us "Who has paid too little?" But it was because there was tax and tourist tax and service fee and ...
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
And that is why one should be diligent in attempting to learn the local customs.
It is a pain, though. Most travelers will have stories about not getting something right.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Like others, I would really prefer that service staff were decently paid. But they aren't, and not tipping won't solve that.
I do my best to go by local custom in these matters but my with-experience-as-waiters friends routinely condemn me for my parsimony. In the US, I tip 15-20% and in Canada, about 15% (I usually tip the tax) but they tell me I should follow their practice of tipping about 25%.
In Spain, I have had tips returned to me by waiters who clearly thought that I was being patronizing, and then followed my Spanish friends' practice of simply leaving some of their change (the "brown money" of 1c, 5c, 10c, and 20c) on the table.
One of my very proper senior policy adviser former colleagues told me that, when she was waitressing part-time as a graduate student, toward the end of the month when women staff began to run out of money, they simply left another button undone and their tips skyrocketed. She noted that this didn't work in the government. She also noted that tip rates varied by restaurants and the amount she made had little to do with quality of service, but rather by the restaurant's mini-culture, the hour of the day, the amount of alcohol consumed, and if the bill-payer was trying to impress others at the table.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
I really do agree about learning about the local custom, it's one of the first things I do when I arrive in a new place.
I also learned from my daughters to leave tips in cash as otherwise it varies from establishment to establishment as to whether or not they actually get it.
I find what Enoch said interesting: why has it become normal practice to tip a coach driver but not the bus driver? Is it something to do with working in public service? In that case why do people tip the refuse collectors at Christmas?
I also wish that people were paid a living wage so any tips really are an extra blessing rather than a necessity for survival.
As I said, as someone who wants to get things "right", I find things like this stressful!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
One year our school Christmas meal was held in a restaurant owned by a friend of a colleague - I couldn't go that year, and was very pleased I didn't when I found that the tips were taken by the owner, and not distributed to the staff. The colleague could not see that there was anything wrong with this. At the time, I conflated this with the colleague's known support for Mrs Thatcher, as part of her argument was that the owner was to be rewarded for making the opportunity for work available.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I tip like crazy, and I tip BAD service More! (on the assumption they are having a bad day and need cheering up) lol it's so cool.
Tip big your misrerable bastards!
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
... She noted that this didn't work in the government. ...
I'm a bit puzzled by this. Is there a context in Canada or the US when one normally tips government staff? Here, for example, local authority staff can't receive gifts. It's regarded as suspiciously like a bribe. Even if they are given sandwiches by hosts at a meeting that goes over lunch time, they have to declare it in a book to avoid the risk of future suspicion.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
If tipping is not a custom in the locale, then restaurant prices have to be higher to support the higher wages of the servers, bus boys, et al. If tipping is a custom, the menu prices are lower, but tips are expected to cover the cost of labor.
Presumably this works out to roughly the same amount that each diner actually pays, so why not just increase prices and wages and abolish tipping?
That way, any potential diner looking at the menu won't have to perform mental arithmetic to work out how much their meal is really going to cost.
I'd be for that, and I suspect most people would find it easier as well. There would be a vocal minority bitching loudly about how "ex-PEN-seeeeve" eating out had become, though, and how it was all Obama's fault.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I tip like crazy, and I tip BAD service More! (on the assumption they are having a bad day and need cheering up) lol it's so cool.
Tip big your misrerable bastards!
Yeah, my base is 20%, going up with particularly friendly service. And only partially because the math is slightly easier than 15%.
We don't go out to eat often, but when we do, we like to go on an odd weekday afternoon and sit at the bar. You usually get to chat with the server, and that can often pay dividends in the form of a comped drink or two. If you comp us a drink, the price of the drink is coming back to you on top of the normal tip.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
In the United States waiters are taxed on their tip income. It's presumed to be at least 8% of the bill by the Internal Revenue. So if you don't tip, you're making the waiter pay for the privilege of serving you.
I tip 15 to 20% depending on the quality of the service unless it is exceptionally bad. The waiters usually share tips with cooks and busboys so poor tips for extremely poor service are shared.
Tipping other people is a regional custom. In New York it is usual to tip many of the other service staff, Doormen, garbage men, the postal carriers, etc. In Seattle, this is viewed as the thin edge of the wedge of corruption, bribing civil servants for better service then they are supposed to deliver. I can also remember a bag boy refusing a tip for helping carry out bags to the car. He was surprised more than insulted for what would be a common gesture in New York.
Service staff also have stereotypes about who will tip well. Germans and single women are frequently given less exuberant service on the assumption they will tip poorly.
I'd rather restaurant staff get paid the same minimum wage as everyone else and tips be reduced to a rare special gesture. This is unlikely to happen. One argument against it is that servers seem to prefer the generosity of their customers to the munificence of the restaurant owners.
[ 13. January 2014, 18:24: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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BessLane
Shipmate
# 15176
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
The minimum wage is now higher, of course, and I imagine waiters' hourly wages are also higher, though in most places still well below minimum. Some cities have "living wage" laws that require all employers to pay a basic wage set by the city, and I don't know how restaurant employees are affected by those.
Sadly, minimum wage for tipped employees (classed as employees who receive at least $30/month in tips) has not increased along with standard minimum wage. Minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13/hour. ( Dept of Labor notice) Should a tipped employee fail to make at least $5.13/hour in tips, the employer is supposed to make that short fall up in the employee's pay. In my experience, this rarely happens. People in the service industry are routinely screwed over by their employers - abuses like making an employee pay for walk-outs, requiring them to do opening or closing side work off the clock, requiring employees to claim set tip amounts, regardless of whether those amounts reflect what the server has acutally made, and failing to pay overtime wages.
Don't get me wrong, you can make a lot of money as a server, but you are at the mercy of both your employer and the paying public. And the paying public, for the most part, has no idea what kind of work servers actually do. For that $2.13/hour (what the employer pays), a typical server will be required to do any or all of the following tasks - in addtion to serving guests: bus tables, wash dishes, answer the phone, prep food items (salad bar ingredients eg), sweep/mop/vacuum, or clean restrooms. This is in addition to keeping his or her section stocked, clean, and orderly.
In any kind of even moderately busy establishment, a server will be on his or her feet for their entire shift. It's heavy, tiring work that is expected to be done with a smile and without complaint, while dealing with all the various sorts of folks who make up the general public. Servers are often treated like second class citizens, many people assume that because you deliver food and drinks for a living you are incapable of doing anything else. A good server makes it look easy, but not everyone can do it well. You need to be extremely organized, efficient, able to multi-task under pressure, able to think on your feet and solve proplems quickly.
Is serving rocket science? No. Is it as important and necessary a profession as say a doctor or police officer? No. But serving is a profession that is just as deserving of respect as any other.
And as for the employer paying more, sure it sounds great, although as has been pointed out, that will raise the price the consumer pays for their meal. But, compare the level of service you get at your average fast-food joint, where the employees are paid minimum wage with the service you get in a restaurant where the server knows that the better they take care of you the guest, the better chance they have for financial reward. It's a trade-off.
Now, if someone could please help me get off my soapbox...
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It's all on me and I won't tell it.
formerly BessHiggs
Posts: 1388 | From: Yorkville, TN | Registered: Sep 2009
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
My sons were wine waiters in Manchester when at university. They were well paid and some of the tips were enormous! I think well oiled, well off people were showing off - which certainly benefited my two!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Is it something to do with working in public service? In that case why do people tip the refuse collectors at Christmas?
When our refuse collector came round and said "Merry Christmas, I empty your bins" my husband would reply "Merry Christmas, I teach your children".
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
I only ever really tip in restaurants and then only if the food was very good and the service exceptional. I don't believe in obligatory tipping. In fact, feeling obliged to tip wil probably make me less likely to tip.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Is it something to do with working in public service? In that case why do people tip the refuse collectors at Christmas?
When our refuse collector came round and said "Merry Christmas, I empty your bins" my husband would reply "Merry Christmas, I teach your children".
Do binmen in some areas actually ask for tips? I seem to think they are banned from doing so here. In any case, since they have no reason to call at the door (or even near it) and it's a bit daft to leave money on or in the bins, it's unlikely that we would see them.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:
And as for the employer paying more, sure it sounds great, although as has been pointed out, that will raise the price the consumer pays for their meal.
Yes, but then they won't have to tip. It works out to the same amount.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
I tip waiters, bar staff and hairdressers. Oh - and taxi drivers, although I seldom take taxis. I would prefer not to - I would far rather employers paid their staff properly - but that's not the way things customarily work in the US.
I don't tip in cash, though, because I generally don't have cash.
[ 13. January 2014, 20:23: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
About penalizing the wrong person re restaurant tips. Tips go into a tip pool and and split among the staff in most. So everyone benefits and suffers.
In this country, that definitely varies by restaurant.
yes! be wary, this is a policy of establishment or at most local government thing. in my experience, pooling is the exception, not the rule. also - in most places, being forced to give a percentage of tips to management is illegal. so if you hear of a place doing it, turn them in!
I've been in the industry on and off for 25 years. I for one, will never work in an establishment that pools tips.
Thing is, I'm good at serving. I make bank at tips. others aren't always terribly good. plus, many places that pool will share tips with those not in the service portion of the job. This shows management's basic misunderstanding out how tipping works. plus, it means management is unwilling to pay their back-of-the-house staff properly. Management can pay servers below minimum, but not their chefs or bakers or cleaning staff. so those people are making more hourly than I am, but getting an equal portion of my tips? I don't think so.
The last place I worked at that pooled, I watched over $100 in tips come in, directly through my work, and after the manager apportioned out the tips, I was given $15. Not okay. Those tips are coming in because of my work.
greedy? why, yes. Don't be fooled - no matter how much we may otherwise love our jobs, we show up for the money. you know, like the rest of you. The beauty of a service job is that I get paid according to the effort I make and how good I am at my job. this is a very motivating factor. If I'm in an evil mood, it will show, and I'll walk away with zilch. it is worth it to me to leave my baggage at the door and turn on the charm.
Again, if one is good at this, the SI becomes worth it. in the right markets (mainly cities, and upscale establishments within them) servers can make very good money.
and it becomes a happy little loop when it works right. I hope you'll tip big, so I become your best friend when I'm serving. you want the chef to cook your steak in butter instead of oil? I'm on it. want 2.35 limes in your cocktail? not only will I make that happen but I'll make sure it's the same all night long. prefer your Old Fashioned made with homemade simple syrup instead of straight sugar? let me just whip up a batch in the back.
You get excellent, cheerful, quick, and specialty service, and you tip appropriately. We both walk away winners.
pooling tips kills that happy loop. it also takes away my motivation to bend over backward to give you an amazing experience, and suddenly serving becomes the dead-end, pointless job it looks like to the outside world. why would I give 100% for shit money? because the work is HARD and not terribly rewording.
Would I bust ass and do great work with no tips but a decent wage? probably. but knowing that seeking out that one perfect extra prawn or running to the store to get the blood orange for your customer's special twist will translate in being able to put gas in your car is a very motivating factor.
something I think worth considering - I have heard from many visitors from other countries (because we get a lot of foreign clientele in the industry up here) how amazing the servers in America are. we're so nice. so willing to help. so willing to go the extra mile. maybe... maybe there is a reason us crazy-overtipped american servers are so notoriously friendly and helpful.
and why your own minimum-wage overworked servers might be a little surly by the end of their shifts.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
... She noted that this didn't work in the government. ...
I'm a bit puzzled by this. Is there a context in Canada or the US when one normally tips government staff? Here, for example, local authority staff can't receive gifts. It's regarded as suspiciously like a bribe. Even if they are given sandwiches by hosts at a meeting that goes over lunch time, they have to declare it in a book to avoid the risk of future suspicion.
I believe she was being ironical. Tipping a public servant is a criminal offense. We were regularly instructed that we were to report all attempts to present us with presents, gifts, or payments. Generally, we were allowed to accept coffee or tea at meetings, but nothing else-- sandwiches as suggested above were reported by memorandum to one's manager.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:
And as for the employer paying more, sure it sounds great, although as has been pointed out, that will raise the price the consumer pays for their meal.
Yes, but then they won't have to tip. It works out to the same amount.
Only for non-assholes, of course.
Surely that depends on the inflation factor used. It could end up with the generous tipper spaying the same and the assholes paying more.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
not sure what you mean, Marvin. The Dickhead Surcharge* is illegal in most places. do I understand you wrong?
*The Dickhead Surcharge: if you are irritable, rude, condescending, needy, or otherwise make serving you difficult, there will be an add-on amount to your bill.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Service staff also have stereotypes about who will tip well. Germans and single women are frequently given less exuberant service on the assumption they will tip poorly.
really?
in my experience it's Japanese tourists (followed closely by the Australians), professional and semi-professional athletes, and (the worst) "self-made" rich people. Single women, especially if on the lower income side of things, are amazing tippers. As are most low-income folks.
Single men only catch up if you're showing a lot of leg or cleavage.
the best tippers of all time are other SI people, or the "young rich" showing off to their friends and colleagues as Boogie mentioned above.
[ 13. January 2014, 21:38: Message edited by: comet ]
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Australians put a little extra in, maybe 10%, at restaurants. Most likely when in groups and no-one wants to try to distribute the change.
That's about it. I might tell a taxi driver to keep the change if the change is small and I'm in a hurry or something.
PS I'm grateful to comet for confirming our notoriety. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 13. January 2014, 22:07: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Tipping in Australia is certainly not the norm for which I am grateful. We occasinally leave a tip for exceptional service or maybe tell the cab driver to keep the few cents change, but I sincerely hope that the tipping custom is never established in my country.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Single women, especially if on the lower income side of things, are amazing tippers. As are most low-income folks.
I have literally gone out to my car and collected quarters from the bottom of my book sack to make sure I left a decent tip.
Low income people do tend to treat other low income people well-- or as well as they can *. I've encountered this dynamic just about everywhere my own meager experience has taken me.
This is the reason I prefer to work in low-income childcare centers-- the people we serve know how it is to bust ass all day, and treat us accordingly.
*I have actually left apology notes when I have been unusually short on a proper tip.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
not sure what you mean, Marvin.
I thought Gwai was assuming that my proposal to increase both prices and wages in order to eliminate tipping would mean low tippers (assholes) paying about the same and generous tippers paying less. Whereas if prices/wages were increased such that every server got paid the equivalent of a generous tip for each meal it would be the generous tippers who would pay the same for their night out and the assholes who would pay more.
I understand you points about the tipping culture encouraging good service, but to my mind something has gone wrong when tipping an extra 15-20% of the bill becomes the expected amount regardless of service quality. Surely it would be better for all concerned if that expected amount was part of the "sticker price" of the meal and paid to the server through their normal wages, with any extra tip for better-than-expected service entirely at the customer's discretion (which is pretty much the situation here in the UK)?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Is it something to do with working in public service? In that case why do people tip the refuse collectors at Christmas?
When our refuse collector came round and said "Merry Christmas, I empty your bins" my husband would reply "Merry Christmas, I teach your children".
My father once replied "Merry Christmas, I fill them"!
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:
And as for the employer paying more, sure it sounds great, although as has been pointed out, that will raise the price the consumer pays for their meal.
Yes, but then they won't have to tip. It works out to the same amount.
Only for non-assholes, of course.
Surely that depends on the inflation factor used. It could end up with the generous tipper spaying the same and the assholes paying more.
Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. (Sorry, I was unclear.) That the assholes who didn't tip before would pay quite a bit more if it got put into the upfront price, and the assholes would scream shrilly.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I tip $5 or 20%, whichever is higher.
I have, on occasion, felt the need to leave a much larger tip. Not so much because of the quality of service, but because it just seemed right at the time.
I never count off a tip when the server is overworked (it's not the server's fault if others call in sick or if management is too tightfisted to pay for adequate staff), or when the kitchen screws up my order (it's not the server's fault that the steak was medium when I ordered rare).
I do count off a tip if my glass gets empty and the server passes a time or two but doesn't notice. I also count off if I ask for my check and then have to wait more than ten minutes for it (although even that is ridiculous, even in a busy restaurant). But unless the server does something truly awful, I never let it drop below 10% in any case.
I rarely tip in self-serve (buffet) restaurants, especially if the server doesn't refill my glass. It depends on how much service they give, but it's always small.
I am especially merciful if I go in and notice servers hurriedly rolling silverware in napkins during the lunch or dinner service. That's usually a sign that it has pretty much gone to hell, and thus I'm a lot more understanding of mixed up orders and extra time.
As for the other, the taxi drivers (haven't ridden in one since I was a 5th grader), barbers, etc., I'm always a bit clueless. I tip my barber -- I usually give her a $20 bill to pay for my $12 haircut, and she keeps the change, but I don't know about the others. I never use bellboys, taxis, or concierges. If I did, I suppose I would look it up before going into it so I would know what to expect.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I'll be honest, on my North American trip I found the experience of displayed prices having no relationship to the prices actually paid exhausting. Not being used to it.
It wasn't just the tips of course, it was also the tax regime. Perhaps the most disturbing moment of all was when I got to Oregon, where there was no tax to add, and I found myself being surprised that there was no tax to add, and then thinking to myself oh my God I've been here too long and I've started thinking like these crazy people to whom the advertised price doesn't mean anything.
It's hard to convey the delight and relief I felt when I bought a meal in Sydney Airport*, between my flight back from the USA and my flight home to Canberra. The experience of seeing prices and having the woman behind the till add them up and tell me how much money I had to pay and that was it was truly thrilling.
*There is no expectation whatsoever of a tip in somewhere like a food court in Australia. I could handle the idea of tipping in a North American restaurant (the percentage was the tricky bit). Seeing tip jars at places like Starbucks freaked me out.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
Tipping in Australia is certainly not the norm for which I am grateful. We occasinally leave a tip for exceptional service or maybe tell the cab driver to keep the few cents change, but I sincerely hope that the tipping custom is never established in my country.
Indeed. Same here in Finland.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Sherwood
Shipmate
# 15702
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Posted
When I lived back home, I used to tip taxi drivers well, mainly because I used a lot of taxis. Since there was no guarantee of which driver I'd get when I called for one, I tipped well on the basis that if they all got a good tip from me, then they'd be at least pleasant in the future.
That was important for me due to my social anxiety disorder and, if I had to put myself in a one on one situation, I wanted to make sure the deck was stacked in my favour so as to reduce stress, if possible.
Regarding restaurants and bars, I do tip, but I only tip what I can afford. Luckily for me I'm British, so it wasn't so important to make sure the percentage was "suitable" or not.
Not having been out to dinner at a restaurant in Finland (Hesburger doesn't count!) I can't say what's expected here or not, but I'll ask my wife what's expected if and when the situation arises.
[EDIT: or just read the above post!]
[ 14. January 2014, 13:08: Message edited by: Sherwood ]
Posts: 62 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2010
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