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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Decades of the rosary
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
hi folks
I've been worshiping at a local RC church from time to time, and joining in with the odd prayer group and bible study. I am not a Catholic, but my kids are at the church school and I like the priest, who is open and welcoming.
In Bible study and open prayer I find much in common with other folks there. But, as I suppose one might expect, formal prayers often start with or incorporate communal chanting (I am sorry if this is the wrong phrase - I don't mean to be disrespectful) of decades of the rosary.
When this happens I sit quietly in an attitude of prayer and kind of wait for it to be over. I really don't get it. I wonder if any RC shipmates would like to explain it to me, and perhaps to say how it helps in their own spiritual practice (or not?).
This isn't a thread for prods such as me to say anything nasty about this practice. I've already said I don't get it, and I'm honestly asking anyone who does get it, to share their experience. Is that OK?
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Do you suppose you would have the same doubts were the practice in question Buddhist, say Tibetan Buddhist, chanting?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I will preface this by saying, I don't use it, but I have used it in the past. It's a meditation essentially on the life, death and resurrection of Christ with Marian aspects thrown in (and through the eyes of Mary). I guess that as time goes by and you get to know it off by heart it becomes easier to use it in this way. Most of it is scripture, so I guess initially it was a way of committing to memory large passages of scripture.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I'm not RC but I pray the rosary regularly. I find the repetitiveness helps me to focus my mind on God. I appreciate that this sort of thing wouldn't appeal to everybody, but it works for me.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
You should be able to find in any RC church information about the 15 traditional mysteries of the rosary - the Joyful mysteries,the Sorrowful mysteries and the Glorious mysteries,plus the relatively modern Luminous mysteries.
They are a way of meditating upon the life of Christ, but essentially they are a form of vocal prayer in concert with the Virgin Mary.
Interesting if your group chant or intone the prayers.They are usually just said,albeit often at speed by those familiar with what is a devotion.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
I recently made the point on my blog that the Rosary is probably far and away the most popular form of meditation in the West. It often gets overlooked in discussions about the benefits of contemplative ways of doing spirituality, possibly because most of the people who do it are working class women. Anyway, rant over.
In its traditional form, until Pope John Paul II added the Luminous Mysteries, it consisted of 150 recitations of the Hail Mary or 15 decades, groups of ten, with each preceded by an Our Father and ended by a Glory Be. The practice probably arose out of a desire of ordinary people to somehow share in the prayer life of the monasteries. Central to the monastic Divine Office is the chanting of the 150 psalms and so the Rosary had the equivalent number of Hail Mary's.
Rosary beads are usually in a chain or string of 50, 5 decades, with large beads interspersed to mark the beginning and end of each decade. The Church has recommended that people meditate on a mystery to accompany each decade and they come in groups of 5, one for each decade on the chain. They are the Joyful Mysteries where we consider the events in our Lords nativity and childhood, the Sorrowful Mysteries, looking at the Passion, and the Glorious Mysteries, which are meditations on the events that flow from the Resurrection. The new Mysteries of Light invite reflection on episodes from the missionary activity of our Lord such as the Transfiguration.
The way each person does that meditation is left up to them. Some focus on words of scripture, some hold images in their mind of the Mystery being prayed, some empty their minds using the Hail Mary as a mantra and so on.
The Rosary itself is considered to be a crown of roses which we weave with our prayers and give to our Lady that she might take our petitions and intentions (the person praying makes each decade a special intention whether that be for personal needs or the needs of the Church and the world) to her Divine Son.
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My Blog Catholic Scot
http://catholicscot.blogspot.co.uk/
@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
Praying meditatively with beads is something that I have done throughout my life and I am a former Buddhist with CofE tendencies. Whether it is a mala of Vajrasattva mantras or a rosary of Hail Marys there is something almost magical about losing yourself in repetitive prayer. It can be relaxing, focussing, grounding or at worst slightly boring but so is sitting there doing nothing. If you are saying it as a group someone should be announcing the mysteries so give it a go, if you don't have a rosary you can use your fingers. I still struggle to remember the Hail Holy Queen at the end but the mysteries I have on a handy wallet card and I managed to memorise everything else.
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Wm Dewy
Shipmate
# 16712
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Posted
I have prayed the Rosary for many years, with varying degrees of frequency. I feel the Rosary connects me to the faithful in the church throughout many years and generations of public and private devotion.
My former Episcopal parish church had some six of seven people who would publicly recite the Rosary before Sunday Mass during Lent (with the sorrowful mysteries) and Eastertide (with the Glorious Mysteries). That parish is the only Anglican church I know of with a large candle stand with the miraculous medal at its center. My present parish is rather more protestant in its outward and visible trappings, but there are a couple of us who will pray the rosary individually before church on Sundays. I recently joined the Guild of the Living Rosary of Our Lady and St Dominic, a devotional society which commits to pray all twenty decades of the Rosary daily. Each member commits to one decade or more. That’s a small part, of course, and I believe many members of that guild pray more mysteries than the one assigned. I had not used the mysteries of light before I started praying with the GLR, and I had some misgivings using them. I thought there should be 150 Hail Marys to correspond with 150 Psalms or something silly like that. But I have come to enjoy meditations on the luminous mysteries very much.
Like any rote prayers, I suppose, you could simply rattle off a lot of words and not get much out of it; but I find it a very worthwhile vehicle for meditation of various aspects of Jesus’ and Mary’s life
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"And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"
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Invictus_88
Shipmate
# 15352
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
I really don't get it. I wonder if any RC shipmates would like to explain it to me, and perhaps to say how it helps in their own spiritual practice (or not?).
Wherever you are, it helps to bind you to the rest of Christianity as people pray the Rosary all around the world. It unites in love for God, offers up our needs, whilst immersing us in the story of Jesus' life, and bringing down His graces upon us.
I, like you, never used to like the rosary (and indeed I still struggle sometimes to keep it up), but reading The Secret of the Rosary by St Louis de Montfort made a difference in how I understood what it was that we are doing.
Buy a copy and let us know how you get on?
Posts: 206 | Registered: Dec 2009
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
Many Popes have written about the Rosary John Paul II did so when introducing the Mysteries of Light
quote:
The Rosary, though clearly Marian in character, is at heart a Christocentric prayer. In the sobriety of its elements, it has all the depth of the Gospel message in its entirety, of which it can be said to be a compendium.(2) It is an echo of the prayerof Mary, her perennial Magnificat for the work of the redemptive Incarnation which began in her virginal womb. With the Rosary, the Christian people sits at the school of Mary and is led to contemplate the beauty on the face of Christ and to experience the depths of his love. Through the Rosary the faithful receive abundant grace, as though from the very hands of the Mother of the Redeemer.
. Leo XIII wrote so much about it he became known as the Rosary Pope. Here, for example
quote:
These mysteries are the means by which in the soul of a Christian a most clear light is shed upon the good things, hidden to sense, but visible to faith, "which God has prepared for those who love Him." From them we learn that death is not an annihilation which ends all things, but merely a migration and passage from life to life. By them we are taught that the path to Heaven lies open to all men, and as we behold Christ ascending thither, we recall the sweet words of His promise, "I go to prepare a place for you." By them we are reminded that a time will come when "God will wipe away every tear from our eyes," and that "neither mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow, shall be any more," and that "We shall be always with the Lord,"
If you were so minded you could browse the Papal Encyclical site to your hearts content on this subject.
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My Blog Catholic Scot
http://catholicscot.blogspot.co.uk/
@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Practically speaking, the Rosary is easy to say.
Make the sign of the Cross
On the crucifix, recite the Apostles' Creed
On the first big bead (the Our Father bead) say the Our Father
On the first three small beads say the Hail Mary
(When I was a child these were known as the Faith, Hope and Charity beads, and i still think of them as that)
When those are finished, say the Gloria Patri.
Read or listen to the Introduction of the first mystery.
Say the Our Father, followed by 10 Hail Marys.
At the end of each decade, say the Gloria Patri (and if this is local custom, the Fatima Prayer- O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven especially those in most need of thy mercy.)
Read or listen to the next Mystery.
Say the Our Father and 10 Aves.
etc.
At the end of 5 decades and final Gloria and Fatima prayer, recite Hail, Holy Queen.
Make the sign of the cross and you're done.
All the meditative texts are biblical.
Sunday and Wednesday are the Glorious Mysteries;
Monday and Saturday are the Joyful Mysteries;
Tuesday and Friday are the Sorrowful Mysteries;
Thursday is the Luminous Mysteries.
This can vary according to local custom or preference on praying alone.
For instance on Christmas Day, I prayed the Joyful Mysteries. Otherwise, because of a distressing happening in my family I prayed the Sorrowful Mysteries from December 22-January 1.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
The rosary can take a while to get into, and the communal one where they belt through it in a church at breakneck speed doesn't help people who aren't used to it to understand it. I don't find it helpful either.
As a private meditational practice it's quite useful. The "chattering" part of your mind is happy to recite the prayers in the background while the contemplative part of your mind reflects on the Mysteries. This can be quite fruitful and moving if you get into it in an Ignatian sort of way where you visualize the scene as clearly as you can.
Once you get into it, you may find that you get immersed in it. The recitation of the prayers becomes automatic after a while and is also a useful timing device, so that you spend an equal length of time on the various parts of the rosary. The prayers themselves can become a kind of "lectio divina" where you find yourself looking at the phrases and mulling them over.
There is no "set text" otherwise that goes with the Mysteries; it's up to you how you approach each one. Within the Mysteries, each decade has an appropriate topic for contemplation, e.g. the Joyful Mysteries have the Annunciation, the Visitation, the Nativity, the Presentation in the Temple, and the Finding in the Temple. The time it takes to say one decade is usually adequate for contemplation on that particular topic.
(Inevitably, by the way, you will find you spend, or want to spend, longer on some than others.)
[ 14. February 2014, 08:52: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
There is also a specifically Anglican version of the rosary as well, recently introduced by Episcopalians in the USA but slowly gaining some ground in the UK. It uses a shorter set of beads and easy to remember prayers but it can be useful. I also know at least one Roman Catholic who prays the rosary in public but uses an Anglican set when pushed for time in private.
Prayer Beads - St Matthews Westminster
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Circuit Rider
Ship's Itinerant
# 13088
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Posted
My family and I are getting into the practice of using an Anglican rosary and I benefit much from it. In fact, we have introduced it to our Methodist congregation and some of them are getting into it as well.
I find that it helps to focus the mind and heart, especially when I am troubled and do not know what to pray. I have found and written several different prayers.
Recently I have been especially troubled by a family matter and have found the Anglican rosary especially helpful in praying through the situation.
Here's more about the Anglican prayer beeds and a sample prayer.
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I felt my heart strangely warmed ... and realised I had spilt hot coffee all over myself.
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I can't say a communal rosary. 3 people maximum. But when I say it privately in the morning, it takes 20-25 minutes. That's just a little faster than the 30 minutes a congregational rosary takes.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
[QB] My family and I are getting into the practice of using an Anglican rosary and I benefit much from it. In fact, we have introduced it to our Methodist congregation and some of them are getting into it as well.
One of the most popular of books about the Rosary in modern times, prior to the Luminous Mysteries being introduced was by the Methodist minister J Neville Ward excerpts of which can be seen on Google Books it is called Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy.
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@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
I don't often say the Rosary, but when I do, I say it in German. The reason is that the German speakers lay great score by the "Jesus clause" being added, during the "Hail Mary". This makes it easier for me to concentrate on the particular mystery being recited and there is a different one of these clauses for each mystery.
English speakers of German, you can buy a copy of this arrangement in the bilingual Catholic Prayer Book for a couple of pounds in a good repository and this publication covers the Rosary. There are various publications in English adding the "Jesus clause" as well.
I reproduce form memory the Hail Mary in German, with the Jesus clause for the mystery of the Assumption added, which translates - "....who O Virgin has taken you up into heaven."
Gegrüßet seist du Mariä, voll der Gnade, der Herr ist mit dir; du bist gebenedeit unter den Frauen und gebenedeit ist Die Frucht deines Leibes Jesus, der dich O Jungfrau in den Himmel aufgenommen hat. Heilige Mariä, Mutter Gottes, bitte für uns Sünde jetzt und in der Stunde unseres Todes. Amen.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
And,of course, it's 'poor sinners' in French, as indeed also in the Austrian version of the German just quoted by EFF.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I don't often say the Rosary, but when I do, I say it in German. The reason is that the German speakers lay great score by the "Jesus clause" being added, during the "Hail Mary". This makes it easier for me to concentrate on the particular mystery being recited and there is a different one of these clauses for each mystery.
In The Threefold Garland Hans Urs von Balthasar meditates precisely on this German way of saying the Rosary. It is very profound and very profoundly helpful. I cannot recommend it too highly.
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My Blog Catholic Scot
http://catholicscot.blogspot.co.uk/
@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
St Louis de Montfort proposed Five Methods for Praying the Rosary The second of which is similar to the German model-
quote:
Second, Shorter Method…
…of Celebrating the life, death and heavenly glory of Jesus and Mary in the Holy Rosary and a method of restraining our imagination and lessening distractions.
6. To do this a word or two is added to each Ave Maria of the decade reminding us of the mystery we are celebrating. This addition follows the name of Jesus in the middle of the Ave Maria:
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Decade
1st “Jesus becoming man”
2nd “Jesus sanctifying”
3rd “Jesus born in poverty”
4th “Jesus sacrificed”
5th “Jesus holy of holies”
6th “Jesus in his agony”
7th “Jesus scourged”
8th “Jesus crowned with thorns”
9th “Jesus carrying his Cross”
10th “Jesus crucified”
11th “Jesus risen from the dead”
12th “Jesus ascending to heaven”
13th “Jesus filling thee with the Holy Spirit”
14th “Jesus raising thee up”
15th “Jesus crowning thee”
I have found this quite helpful. Since I can seldom remember the actual words proposed, or even the ones I used in the last 'Hail Mary' I tend to say what seems most apt at the time.So, for example, for the decade about the Presentation in the Temple I might say Blesssed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus, offered to the Father or for the Finding in the Temple Jesus, Son of the Father or whatever. It all helps to focus my mind on the mystery being prayed.
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My Blog Catholic Scot
http://catholicscot.blogspot.co.uk/
@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
That's interesting because I have heard it said that the Rosary is easier in French. (And being a pécheur rather than a sinner is quite attractive!)
I use the rosary quite often but find the English words of the Hail Mary quite cumbersome.
First, a small correction - in my reproduction above of the Hail Mary in German, the word for sinners in the final sentence is Sünder and not as printed.
About the Roasry in French and I speak French better than I speak German, I was referring to the de rigueur usage of the "Jesus clause" which is a significant feature in the German Method of saying the Rosary. I can look up the Rosary in French as well, but as far as I am aware, this does not include the "Jesus clause" generally. The grammar and word order in German are tricky and the verb goes to the end. Consequently, the final word in the German "Jesus clause" is either ist - (is) - or hat - (has) - in the active voice, or worden ist (literally is become) in the passive voice. As the grammar in French is easier, it may be on that basis that Leo is suggesting that saying the Rosary is easier in French than in German.
Forthview, I will have to take your word for your mention of poor sinners in Austria, as I am unable to find that.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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